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Other GM's asking for Horcoff

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Old
02-21-2007, 09:27 PM
  #26
imkinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
Shawn Horcoff is junk and he's been junk every year he's played and last year he got owned by Joe Thornton.

Plus, I heard it was Horcoff who told Lowe to make that stupid Pronger trade and then play Smid, Bergeron and Greene in the top six dmen.

What a dummy Horcoff is.
I agree Mattsdennis, Horcoff isn't worth Ryan Getzlaf's jock strap.

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02-21-2007, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Matts View Post
Shawn Horcoff is junk and he's been junk every year he's played and last year he got owned by Joe Thornton.

Plus, I heard it was Horcoff who told Lowe to make that stupid Pronger trade and then play Smid, Bergeron and Greene in the top six dmen.

What a dummy Horcoff is.
He also wrecked Moreau's shoulder for this whole season if I'm not mistaken, right? Not to mention breaking smyths thumb.

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02-21-2007, 09:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan_55 View Post
He also wrecked Moreau's shoulder for this whole season if I'm not mistaken, right? Not to mention breaking smyths thumb.
We can never speak of what he he did to Tjarnquist's groin, too....

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02-21-2007, 09:32 PM
  #29
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Please explain to me how Horcoff is a number 1 center? He struggled all season without playing with Hemsky and Smyth. To me that means that he need Hemsky and Smyth to actually be a good hockey player, where if he were a true #1 center then he wouldn't care who he had as linemates, as Horcoff would make those players better, not the other way around.
He has what, 25 points in his last 26 games? Most of them well before playing with Hemsky and Smyth? Despite playing on the 2nd PP unit?

He started off slow - real slow, but he's come around.

Not saying he is untouchable - nobody is - but there isn't a center on the Oilers currently that can replace Horcoff.

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02-21-2007, 09:33 PM
  #30
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I think Lowe has to look at it like any other potential deal. If the return justifies it, you have to consider it.

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02-21-2007, 09:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I think Lowe has to look at it like any other potential deal. If the return justifies it, you have to consider it.
I get what you're saying, and it's true, but the return has to be so exorbitant that I doubt a deal could be made.

What sort of proposal would it even take?

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02-21-2007, 09:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
I get what you're saying, and it's true, but the return has to be so exorbitant that I doubt a deal could be made.

What sort of proposal would it even take?
IMO, if they were pieces that on draft day you could parlay into a top end d-man like Redden, then I think it's a go. Like I said in the post, I believe Lowe would be asking for a 1st, a 3rd and a top end prospect. Another example of the package I mean is something like to (just an example here) Tampa Bay for Ryan Craig, a 1st and a 3rd. I think that's a deal Lowe is all over if he decided Horcoff could be expendable. Again though I'm so surprised with how many quality centre's we have comming up that everyone is so affraid to deal this guy. I like him, I love his work ethic, I love his leadership, but those are qualities this team already has an abundence of.

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02-21-2007, 09:47 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
I get what you're saying, and it's true, but the return has to be so exorbitant that I doubt a deal could be made.

What sort of proposal would it even take?
To be honest, I wouldn't even know.

I imagine it'd have to start with a top prospect + a 1st rounder. Or a young center ready to step up into a Top 6 role + a lower pick/prospect. Something like that. Fill out the rest of the trade with the prerequesite warm bodies or miscellaneous picks.

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02-21-2007, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Special Ed 94 View Post
Well, I never considered Horcoff to be a true #1 Center, so yeah, I'd trade him for a sure-fire prospect or two, assuming Stollie comes back healthy from his noggin bumps.
ditto

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02-21-2007, 09:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
To be honest, I wouldn't even know.

I imagine it'd have to start with a top prospect + a 1st rounder. Or a young center ready to step up into a Top 6 role + a lower pick/prospect. Something like that. Fill out the rest of the trade with the prerequesite warm bodies or miscellaneous picks.
Let's pretend EDM could get the Forsberg package for Horcoff.

Are the Oilers ahead unless they are willing to ramp up the budget to the cap for next season? Who can they get for equivalent money as a UFA next summer to replace Horcoff?

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02-21-2007, 09:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
To be honest, I wouldn't even know.

I imagine it'd have to start with a top prospect + a 1st rounder. Or a young center ready to step up into a Top 6 role + a lower pick/prospect. Something like that. Fill out the rest of the trade with the prerequesite warm bodies or miscellaneous picks.
Jim Slater & one of the Thrasher's good prospects (Bourret? Little? Pavelec?)? Would Atlanta go for something like that? I dunno.

Should we? I dunno. I'm pretty high on Slater. If we're moving Horc for futures it'd have to be a whopper.

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02-21-2007, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
Who can they get for equivalent money as a UFA next summer to replace Horcoff?
Risky... but maybe Mike York?

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02-21-2007, 09:54 PM
  #38
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Well lets use Montreal cause they would probably want him:

Horc

for

Halak + Chipcura + 3rd??



Overpayment, underpayment??

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02-21-2007, 09:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
Risky... but maybe Mike York?
At his best I don't think York's close to the same player.

He's in a contract UFA year, and he's in such bad shape PHI benches him until he drops weight? Doesn't really sound like a guy I'd target.

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02-21-2007, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Well lets use Montreal cause they would probably want him:

Horc

for

Halak + Chipcura + 3rd??



Overpayment, underpayment??
I think that would be a real underpayment. With Winchester, Brodziak, Jacques, Stortini in the system, would Chipchura really make much of a contribution?

I'd also like to think that any Horcoff trade has to return a guy who can absolutely play on our team as soon as next season.

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02-21-2007, 10:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Well lets use Montreal cause they would probably want him:

Horc

for

Halak + Chipcura + 3rd??



Overpayment, underpayment??
That is absolutely brutal for the Oilers. Horcoff is one of those guys that is basically untradeable because he is worth far more to the Oilers than he would be to most/all other teams, IMO.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:02 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Well lets use Montreal cause they would probably want him:

Horc

for

Halak + Chipcura + 3rd??



Overpayment, underpayment??
I don't want chipcura.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:05 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
At his best I don't think York's close to the same player.

He's in a contract UFA year, and he's in such bad shape PHI benches him until he drops weight? Doesn't really sound like a guy I'd target.
At his best, I think York's a speedy forward with only decent offensive upside but sound positional play and solid defensive conscience who isn't particularly physical but not afraid to get his nose dirty, and is probably good for 45-65 points, depending on usage or linemates.

You're right. Not even close to the same player.


But the risk certainly is there. There's definitely something up with Mike York. Is it repairable?

But he did, once upon a time, fill pretty much the same role for us that Horcoff does right now. Heck, I imagine he'll not have much of a UFA asking price and irrespective of what we do with Horc, I wouldn't mind the Oilers taking a shot at him.

He was very good here. (Of course, so was Nedved. Once.)

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02-21-2007, 10:08 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
At his best I don't think York's close to the same player.

He's in a contract UFA year, and he's in such bad shape PHI benches him until he drops weight? Doesn't really sound like a guy I'd target.
York would be a lot better here then he has been in Philly this year. Who the hell has been a good player in Philly this year? Gagne I guess, but it was a gong show there. Mike York would be cheap, he's a better playmaker then Horc so he would be a good fit with Lupul. But let's not talk about York, you asked earlier who could we sign to replace Horc, why can't we give all our guys in our system a bump up the latter? Stoll moves to the 1st line, Pouliot gets 2nd line duties, Reasoner/Brodziak 3 and 4th line centre's. It might not work, but centre isn't that tough of posistion to fill during the season.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:10 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
He was very good here. (Of course, so was Nedved. Once.)
But York's only 29 right now, Nedved's 35.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by speeds View Post
That is absolutely brutal for the Oilers. Horcoff is one of those guys that is basically untradeable because he is worth far more to the Oilers than he would be to most/all other teams, IMO.
Great insight. Sadly, the same can probably be said of several Oilers right now.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:11 PM
  #47
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If we could get fair value for Horcoff Lowe would be stupid not to trade him. We have a surplus of Centers. Horcoff at best has a b- finish. That isn't good enough for a first line C. If it wasn't for playing with Hemsky Horc would be half the player he is (like sykora) Stoll and MAP both are as good as Horcoff right now. We have Brodziak who has Pisani hardworking third line written all over him waiting to get in. We have Schremp and Cogliano both going to be ready for top 6 minutes. Schremp next year and Cogliano the year after that. A first line C can put up points no matter who he plays with. Horc at best is a good # 2 C and if teams are willing to give up the package that Dregger said it would take then I think we should trade him.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:17 PM
  #48
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I don't think Horcoff would be traded, unless a young top 6 center could be had in return, Stoll, Pouliot, Reasoner and Brodziak/Petersen/other 4th liner would be one of the weakest down the middle in the NHL.

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02-21-2007, 10:19 PM
  #49
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[QUOTE=Traktor;8179458] If it wasn't for playing with Hemsky Horc would be half the player he is (like sykora) Stoll and MAP both are as good as Horcoff right now. QUOTE]

Don't make me laugh. You think MAP is just as good as horcoff right now? Why did he do almost nothing in his first stint in edmonton at the beginning of the year and then get sent down to the AHL.

He has been promising lately but this statement is completely ridiculous. If we want to move forwards we should be concentrating on ones that can't seem to find any semblance of chemistry with any players they are paired with (ie lupul) not horcoff.

York could be a decent pickup here if he comes cheaply ie. 1.25-1.5 mill. He can play both center and the wing which would be great in case of injury. Could be next year's whitney type comeback player.

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02-21-2007, 10:23 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I don't think Horcoff would be traded, unless a young top 6 center could be had in return, Stoll, Pouliot, Reasoner and Brodziak/Petersen/other 4th liner would be one of the weakest down the middle in the NHL.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.horcoff plays a lot of minutes (most of them hard). If we trade him i guarantee everyone is *****ing all next season about how lowe didn't properly adress the center position, blah blah blah blah.

There are no guarantees we can sign a briere type over the summer. These players are coveted and their choice of city won't necessarily come down to money alone.

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