HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Other GM's asking for Horcoff

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-21-2007, 10:24 PM
  #51
Oilbleeder
Moderator
RattsSSV on the avy
 
Oilbleeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
That is absolutely brutal for the Oilers. Horcoff is one of those guys that is basically untradeable because he is worth far more to the Oilers than he would be to most/all other teams, IMO.
Fair enough, but if we are trying to get someone similar for Horcoff, i think its reasonable to say we wont get it, i mean, if they have a similar skill-set and are ready, why trade him??

I agree though about brutal, probably because im high on Halak, absolutly dominant in the AHL, and is playing solid Hockey in the NHL, i cant think of any type of Centers that would interest us, anyone got any??

Oilbleeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:26 PM
  #52
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,750
vCash: 500
He's so freakin' overpaid that numerous GM's want him and his remaining 2 years on his contract at a bloated price. If we trade Horc, we had better be doing a complete re-build, because he is a guy that can win you games in a multitude of ways and he's smack dab in his prime. If we trade Horc, you may as well deal Smyth as well. Hell blow up the team of anyone over 30 at that point minus Moreau and maybe Staios.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:27 PM
  #53
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvprimate View Post
Don't make me laugh. You think MAP is just as good as horcoff right now? Why did he do almost nothing in his first stint in edmonton at the beginning of the year and then get sent down to the AHL.

He has been promising lately but this statement is completely ridiculous. If we want to move forwards we should be concentrating on ones that can't seem to find any semblance of chemistry with any players they are paired with (ie lupul) not horcoff.

York could be a decent pickup here if he comes cheaply ie. 1.25-1.5 mill. He can play both center and the wing which would be great in case of injury. Could be next year's whitney type comeback player.
I'll stand up a bit for Traktor since he's new here. I think all he meant was that between Smyth and Hemsky Pouliot could put up the same numbers, and that he's progressing well in all areas of the game and by next year might be the same player Horcoff is....add on some size and minus a bit of speed. In regards to York, I think York would be that cheap, and would like to comeback here, and the organization would love him back here. And you're right, he could have a Whitney type comeback. I think he's the type of guy Lupul needs to play with. Great playmaker, good defensivly, such a smart hockey player. He also had that great chemistry with Torres(remember how good Torres - York - Dvorak was to start the 03-04 season).

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:28 PM
  #54
The Rage
Registered User
 
The Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stamford Bridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
He's so freakin' overpaid that numerous GM's want him and his remaining 2 years on his contract at a bloated price. If we trade Horc, we had better be doing a complete re-build, because he is a guy that can win you games in a multitude of ways and he's smack dab in his prime. If we trade Horc, you may as well deal Smyth as well. Hell blow up the team of anyone over 30 at that point minus Moreau and maybe Staios.
Great post. Horcoff and Smyth are our best ES players; we lose either, and we're in for a couple of years of hurt.

The Rage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:31 PM
  #55
mvprimate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage View Post
Great post. Horcoff and Smyth are our best ES players; we lose either, and we're in for a couple of years of hurt.
Exactly, we were not a good ES team this year. Trading horcoff is not going to change that.

mvprimate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:32 PM
  #56
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
He's so freakin' overpaid that numerous GM's want him and his remaining 2 years on his contract at a bloated price. If we trade Horc, we had better be doing a complete re-build, because he is a guy that can win you games in a multitude of ways and he's smack dab in his prime. If we trade Horc, you may as well deal Smyth as well. Hell blow up the team of anyone over 30 at that point minus Moreau and maybe Staios.
BBO, he's not overpaid, but he is the most expensive centre on the team. With the depth down the middle we currently have and the extra cap room we would gain, obviously there's a strong chance we wouldn't be as strong down the middle next year because the kids wouldn't be as polished, but we could parlay a lot of the things we have(picks prospects and cap space)into a top 10 blueline next year. A centre is easier to find and afford then a top end d-man. That's all I'm thinking, I think with a healthy Stoll and a re-signed Smyth it wouldn't be a BAD play. He would get us a huge return right now.

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:36 PM
  #57
mvprimate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Ari Gold;8179706]I'll stand up a bit for Traktor since he's new here. I think all he meant was that between Smyth and Hemsky Pouliot could put up the same numbers, and that he's progressing well in all areas of the game and by next year might be the same player Horcoff is....add on some size and minus a bit of speed. QUOTE]

I guess, but this is the same type of mentality that screwed us on defense this year.
If you look around the league, perenially good teams try to fill all their holes with veterans and anything rookies can pull off is a bonus. SJ is a huge exception to this but look at NJ. They wait for rookies to prove themsleves and move them up accordingly.

I absolutely do not want us to go into next year just hoping young players step up their game to fill our holes.

mvprimate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:36 PM
  #58
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvprimate View Post
Exactly, we were not a good ES team this year. Trading horcoff is not going to change that.
But would a team minus Horcoff but added in Redden, Brewer and Mike York change that?

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:38 PM
  #59
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
Let's pretend EDM could get the Forsberg package for Horcoff.

Are the Oilers ahead unless they are willing to ramp up the budget to the cap for next season? Who can they get for equivalent money as a UFA next summer to replace Horcoff?
It's a tough call. I'm glad I'm not the one that has to make the decision. Dumping Horcoff for (essentially) futures and then trying to bag one of Drury/Briere/Gomez/etc. would be a very risky move, but it might be worth it. Then again, it might not. Like you said, he's worth a lot to us.

There are a number of things Lowe can do at the deadline. At the very least, it should be interesting.

__________________

Sig AND X-mas avatar courtesy of The Nemesis

"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
Cloned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:39 PM
  #60
21Gator*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
I wonder if there is any chance to land Smolinski in the off-season?

$2 - $2.5M

Eats a lot of minutes, wins face offs. I would say a better value at that price, but I don't know if that's what he'll get. If it's above that, then Horc would start looking less overvalued, imo.

2nd line center, bump Stollie.

21Gator* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:40 PM
  #61
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
BBO, he's not overpaid, but he is the most expensive centre on the team.
In another thread there were numerous people saying that he was quite overpaid, if he were so damned overpaid, why would other GM's want to take on his horrible contract for 2 more seasons??? That's my point. IMO if this team wants to be a Cup contender in the next 3 years, you do not trade Shawn Horcoff.

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:40 PM
  #62
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvprimate View Post
I guess, but this is the same type of mentality that screwed us on defense this year.
If you look around the league, perenially good teams try to fill all their holes with veterans and anything rookies can pull off is a bonus. SJ is a huge exception to this but look at NJ. They wait for rookies to prove themsleves and move them up accordingly.

I absolutely do not want us to go into next year just hoping young players step up their game to fill our holes.
Not trying to be a pr*ck here but you can't name a team that doesn't have a hole right now. Calgary could still use a scoring forward. Nashville could still use a gritty vet d-man. Buffalo could use some grit both on the 3rd and 4th lines and on the blueline. If we went into next year with Stoll/Pouliot/Brodziak/Reasoner down the middle we would be looking to get a centre before the deadline, but a centre is a lot easier to find then a top end d-man.


Last edited by Zach and Slater: 02-21-2007 at 10:46 PM.
Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:42 PM
  #63
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
I wonder if there is any chance to land Smolinski in the off-season?

$2 - $2.5M

Eats a lot of minutes, wins face offs. I would say a better value at that price, but I don't know if that's what he'll get. If it's above that, then Horc would start looking less overvalued, imo.

2nd line center, bump Stollie.
Just the guy I was looking for, if Horc is about $500,000 overpaid as you had said in another post, then why so much interest by other GM's with 2 years remaining on his overpaid deal??? Or is it your opinion that you trade him and make the other GM look like a sucker when Horc fails to live up to the value of his contract???

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:43 PM
  #64
21Gator*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
In another thread there were numerous people saying that he was quite overpaid, if he were so damned overpaid, why would other GM's want to take on his horrible contract for 2 more seasons??? That's my point. IMO if this team wants to be a Cup contender in the next 3 years, you do not trade Shawn Horcoff.
You don't know what they are offering. You don't know how GMs are valuing that contract. IF they are.

Isn't Eklund more reliable than Dregs?

21Gator* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:44 PM
  #65
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
In another thread there were numerous people saying that he was quite overpaid, if he were so damned overpaid, why would other GM's want to take on his horrible contract for 2 more seasons??? That's my point. IMO if this team wants to be a Cup contender in the next 3 years, you do not trade Shawn Horcoff.
Your defintley right, he's not overpaid. And I do agree you need guys like Horcoff to win the Cup, BUT the only thing I've been thinking is that Stoll(IF HEALTHY)could take Horcoff's spot, Pouliot could SOMEWHAT take Stoll's spot, and the cap space and return that we could get for the guy could help out with upgrading the blueline. If we could get a centre that is further along then Pouliot, along with a 1st round pick I think it's something that should be looked at.

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:44 PM
  #66
21Gator*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Just the guy I was looking for, if Horc is about $500,000 overpaid as you had said in another post, then why so much interest by other GM's with 2 years remaining on his overpaid deal??? Or is it your opinion that you trade him and make the other GM look like a sucker when Horc fails to live up to the value of his contract???
This is you jumping to conclusions. Wait until we have facts. I still contend he is overpaid, and would gladly dump those dollars from our budget.

21Gator* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:46 PM
  #67
okgooil
Registered User
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,295
vCash: 500
A GM listen to any offer, if he can rip some one off, then he should do it. Should K lowe be looking to deal horc, NO!! but should he listen to offers, why not, every one is tradable at the right price.

okgooil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:46 PM
  #68
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,185
vCash: 500
Horc may be slightly overpaid but he does bring a lot to the team. I'd argue Pisani would is more overpaid for what he brings.

That said, I have my doubts that either will be going anywhere for the remainder of their current contracts.

Cloned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:48 PM
  #69
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
If we went into next year with Stoll/Pouliot/Brodziak/Reasoner down the middle we would be looking to get a centre before the deadline, but a centre is a lot easier to find then a top end d-man.
Last season it was hard as hell to get a goaltender, this year it's defense, next year??? IMO you don't bank on these types of things. I'm sure that if Lowe knew that it was going to be this hard to get a quality d-man, he would've over paid on one year deals for guys like Markov. IMO you lose Horc in a trade, you deal Smyth and try to get a true superstar to sign here to replace both. If not, you're going *** backwards. I am a fan of dealing away some of our vets, but guys like Horc, Hemmer, Stoll, Smyth, and other guys in that age group should be kept because they should still be good players 3-5 years down the road.

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:49 PM
  #70
momentai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Was there not talk on here not that long ago about how Stoll was the best 3rd line centre in hockey, and how he should be a Selke candidate??? I would say that people think he's pretty DAMN good defensivly!
Really? I don't know if that's all that true. Until this season, Stoll was generally sheltered for most of his career at the NHL level. It's hard to be recognized for a Selke when you don't play against any of the top offensive stars of the other team.

He turned a corner this year, certainly, and he's played more difficult minutes this season and played them well... but there's something to be said for sample size. Aside from the injury concerns, do we really have enough information to say that Stoll will do fine slipping into Horcoff's role as the team's best ES center? Risky move, I'd say...

momentai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:50 PM
  #71
callighenfan
H.O.N.P.E.D.
 
callighenfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
Plus, I heard it was Horcoff who told Lowe to make that stupid Pronger trade and then play Smid, Bergeron and Greene in the top six dmen.
Not only that, but do you think it's a coincidence that Hurricane Katrina happened while Horcoff was a member of the Oilers? I sure don't!

callighenfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:53 PM
  #72
Oil_in_my_veins
Registered User
 
Oil_in_my_veins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Windsor, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 930
vCash: 500
I know the HF stands for hockeys future but come on you don't throw up your hands and say lets trade first line players for draft picks. this year's draft is weak and unless we're talking about prospects ready to step in now forget it. we have what, 9 rookies/2nd year guys in the lineup now. trade some fringe players but keep the core together. this isn't the time to start over. Horcoff is the most underrated, underappreciated player on this team. He could be a Briere in a better system. trading him would be a mistake.

Oil_in_my_veins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:54 PM
  #73
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Your defintley right, he's not overpaid. And I do agree you need guys like Horcoff to win the Cup, BUT the only thing I've been thinking is that Stoll(IF HEALTHY)could take Horcoff's spot, Pouliot could SOMEWHAT take Stoll's spot, and the cap space and return that we could get for the guy could help out with upgrading the blueline. If we could get a centre that is further along then Pouliot, along with a 1st round pick I think it's something that should be looked at.
Stoll wasn't ready to fill "his spot" until he was 23 or 24 I believe. Pouliot is all of 21. Very talented yes, but would it be fair to expect the same contribution of a 24/25 year old Stoll from a 21 or 22 year old MAP??? Offensively maybe, that said neither Stoll nor Pouliot have Horcoff's dynamic SPEED!!! IMO Cogliano would be a more realistic furture replacement of Horc. If we are lookinbg a competing for a Cup in 4-5 years, you deal Horc now or you keep him as our Brind'Amour type of a center. Imagine if Stall had to win Carolina the Cup. That shows how important it is to have guys like Horc. Stoll will likely be a beast at that point, but who knows???

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:57 PM
  #74
Dr_Gonz0
Registered User
 
Dr_Gonz0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,235
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerlova View Post
I am not sure Briere would do well in the tighter West. I do think we would be a lot better with a 5 million Gomez though. I think he will be a 60+ assist guy for the next 5 years.
Oh god ... "Hemsky to Gomez, Gomez drops back to Hemksy, who feeds gomez a saucer pass. Gomez feeds hemsky in the slot and Hemsky ....back to Staios at the point." You get the picture.

Where is the finish?

Dr_Gonz0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-21-2007, 10:58 PM
  #75
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvprimate View Post
[. QUOTE]

I guess, but this is the same type of mentality that screwed us on defense this year.
If you look around the league, perenially good teams try to fill all their holes with veterans and anything rookies can pull off is a bonus.
SJ is a huge exception to this but look at NJ. They wait for rookies to prove themsleves and move them up accordingly.

I absolutely do not want us to go into next year just hoping young players step up their game to fill our holes.
Excuse me?.. it's my mentality that screwed us?? Who are you again?? Maybe you shouldn't make such bold comments and actually think outside the box.


MAP will be better than Horcoff and I would even say he is as good as him right now. If you can't see it that's your problem and your opinion. MAP has everything that Horcoff has but he can finish. You think because you can leech off Hemsky that makes you a number 1 C? I say that if MAP Centered for Hemsky all year he would have just as good numbers as Horc. How was Horc before he played with Hemsky? How was he when we took Hemsky off his line this year? Please don't respond about his playoffs last year because by that logic Pisani is a 1st line winger and rocket richard candidate.


If we can get a top pairing for Horcoff... I think that makes us a way better team.


What team do you think is better?

Horcoff
Sykora/Stoll
without a top pairing D.

or

Stoll
MAP/Sykora
with a top pairing D.

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.