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Other GM's asking for Horcoff

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Old
02-21-2007, 09:59 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
In another thread there were numerous people saying that he was quite overpaid, if he were so damned overpaid, why would other GM's want to take on his horrible contract for 2 more seasons???
Fit. You deal from strength to fill a weakness. There are a surprising number of teams out there that have skill to burn but not enough heart (the Pens and Wings, for example). We have the opposite problem. Similarly, we have an abundance of centres in our system, but not enough D-men and scoring wingers. Horc's contract isn't great for us (though it's not certainly not bad), but it would look downright appealing to a team who saw him as the last piece for a Cup run.

I like Horcoff a lot. But if it means getting a guy who can bury the shot he muffed on the PP against Toronto an extra 25% of the time, or who might blossom into a top-two D-man, I make the deal. Not if it's a package heavy on picks though, no way.

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02-21-2007, 10:05 PM
  #77
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hows this for an idea? we keep horcoff and go into next year looking strong and versatile at the center position. I think having a healthy 1-2 punch of horc and stoll, with people like pouliot, reasoner, schremp, brodziak etc. filling out the lines, we look pretty solid down the middle for the first time in a long time. if we move horc, we are significantly weaker. we can't afford a proven #1 center and a proven #1 d-man on the UFA market. Horc is perfect for Edmonton right now and vice versa. If we were offered something ridiculous its worth listening to, but we won't be offered anything worth moving him for and thus Lowe will not move him.

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02-21-2007, 10:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
He has what, 25 points in his last 26 games? Most of them well before playing with Hemsky and Smyth? Despite playing on the 2nd PP unit?

He started off slow - real slow, but he's come around.

Not saying he is untouchable - nobody is - but there isn't a center on the Oilers currently that can replace Horcoff.
You're right he has improved his points since xmas break. Since then, he has 9G 13A 22P in 25 games. However, of that total, only 5pts were without Smyth and/or Hemsky also getting points. Of that 5 pts, 2 came on the PP. So, in 25 games, he has 3 points without the PP, Hemsky and/or Smyth. He leads all forwards with ES TOI this year with 825 minutes, Lupul is next at 734 minutes.

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02-21-2007, 10:21 PM
  #79
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I can't wait until next October/November when people start crapping all over Horc again. Some great ammo in this thread with all the support Horc is getting.

Im all for dealing Horc, but only if the return is impossible to refuse. And that scenario doesnt really make sense. There are rental players out there that can replicate what a Horc brings to the table. So any team that want to pick him up is doing it with the longer-term in mind. But with UFA Cs like Gomez, Forsberg, Drury, Briere, etc. available this summer, why dump a ton of picks and prospects on EDM to pick up Horc?

To me this is more BS from Dreger. Im sure teams are kicking the tires, but I doubt there is any serious interest. If Bob "The Insider" Mac, didn't say it, Im not listening.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:34 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
That is absolutely brutal for the Oilers. Horcoff is one of those guys that is basically untradeable because he is worth far more to the Oilers than he would be to most/all other teams, IMO.
Halak alone would be worth Horcoff IMO... the kid is 21 and is ripping apart the AHL at a rate few other young goaltenders have ever done.

He gives them a legitimate starting goaltender for the next 5 years (as opposed to 2 with roli).

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02-21-2007, 10:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Halak alone would be worth Horcoff IMO... the kid is 21 and is ripping apart the AHL at a rate few other young goaltenders have ever done.

He gives them a legitimate starting goaltender for the next 5 years (as opposed to 2 with roli).
If we did that we'd have to trade one of DD or JDD for a center, I'd assume.

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02-21-2007, 10:42 PM
  #82
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Horcoff is 107th in the NHL in scoring.. is that 1st line C material?? I'm not even going to bring up his -10 because that stat doesn't always tell the true story.

I don't care about "tough minutes" that Horc defenders love to hold onto. It is about Results. A true first line C shouldn't be 107th in scoring.

If Horcoff is your #1 C and Smith and Staois are your 1 and 2 defensmen then it should be no surprise when you don't make the playoffs this year.

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02-21-2007, 10:47 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
If we did that we'd have to trade one of DD or JDD for a center, I'd assume.
Or Roli...

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:49 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
Horcoff is 107th in the NHL in scoring.. is that 1st line C material?? I'm not even going to bring up his -10 because that stat doesn't always tell the true story.

I don't care about "tough minutes" that Horc defenders love to hold onto. It is about Results. A true first line C shouldn't be 107th in scoring.

If Horcoff is your #1 C and Smith and Staois are your 1 and 2 defensmen then it should be no surprise when you don't make the playoffs this year.
Generally the guys who put up impressive point totals are the guys who see a tonne of PP time.

Horcoff doesn't... and based on his rates when he does get PP time, he'd have a hell of a lot more points if he was the on the first PP with the only other good PP players the Oilers have.

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02-21-2007, 10:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Or Roli...
I dunno. That'd be dangerous. Very few young goalies can actually step in as a #1 and perform consistently. Even Cam Ward is struggling this season.

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02-21-2007, 10:58 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I dunno. That'd be dangerous. Very few young goalies can actually step in as a #1 and perform consistently. Even Cam Ward is struggling this season.
Yes it would be dangerous... but it's still something I'd consider. I've been nothing but amazed at how good Halak has been in the AHL the last 2 years... and his season absolutley blows Ward's season out of the water when you factor in that Halak does it with the new rules.

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Old
02-21-2007, 10:59 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Halak alone would be worth Horcoff IMO... the kid is 21 and is ripping apart the AHL at a rate few other young goaltenders have ever done.

He gives them a legitimate starting goaltender for the next 5 years (as opposed to 2 with roli).
Yeah, I was thinking of Danis when I read that offer, my mistake.

I'll have to back off my "brutal" description knowing that it's Halak, and now that I've actually looked at Halak's age and stats, lol... I knew he was having a good year but I didn't realize it was "that" good.

I don't think I'd make the trade without knowing more about Halak than I do, but those are some pretty great stats out of Halak anyways.

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Old
02-21-2007, 11:01 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Yes it would be dangerous... but it's still something I'd consider. I've been nothing but amazed at how good Halak has been in the AHL the last 2 years... and his season absolutley blows Ward's season out of the water when you factor in that Halak does it with the new rules.
Halak should be a good one, no doubt. But it'd also be dangerous because there would be some risk of shattering a young goalie's confidence by pushing him as a #1 in the NHL before he's ready.

EDIT: Well, Montreal does also have Price, so they might be willing to move Halak...

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02-21-2007, 11:06 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Halak should be a good one, no doubt. But it'd also be dangerous because there would be some risk of shattering a young goalie's confidence by pushing him as a #1 in the NHL before he's ready.

EDIT: Well, Montreal does also have Price, so they might be willing to move Halak...
Well wouldn't he Back-up Roli until Roli's contract runs out??

I love Halak, im a big fan of his....

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02-21-2007, 11:06 PM
  #90
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Is it MTL that is kicking tires? Did he mention teams?

I bet they are trying to dump Samsonov.

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02-21-2007, 11:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Well wouldn't he Back-up Roli until Roli's contract runs out??

I love Halak, im a big fan of his....
dawgbone's suggestion was that we'd trade Roli to get rid of the logjam at goal if that trade was to happen.

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02-21-2007, 11:08 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
dawgbone's suggestion was that we'd trade Roli to get rid of the logjam at goal if that trade was to happen.
Ooooohhhh, im sorry, mistake, reading has never been my strong point...

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02-21-2007, 11:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Ooooohhhh, im sorry, mistake, reading has never been my strong point...
No worries.

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02-21-2007, 11:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Generally the guys who put up impressive point totals are the guys who see a tonne of PP time.

Horcoff doesn't... and based on his rates when he does get PP time, he'd have a hell of a lot more points if he was the on the first PP with the only other good PP players the Oilers have.
Did you see his finish on the Hemsky gift vs Toronto?? He isn't on the first PP because he has no finish at all. Just look at Petersen-Playing 10 minutes of PP time doesn't mean you will score points on the PP. I like Horcoff playing with Hemsky because he is good on the boards, him and Smyth can cycle the puck and create a few seconds to wait for Hemsky to get the puck. I don't like that he has no finish at all. He has top notch work ethic but 3rd line hands. Usually that makes for a great 2nd line C and that is what I think Horc is. When Horcoff gives 90% he looks like **** because he nothing without is work ethic. Players like Hemsky and real first line players can give 80 % and still look good.

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Old
02-21-2007, 11:16 PM
  #95
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The talk about York possibly joining the Oilers next season had me thinking: would he have been any better this season with the team than Sykora has?

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02-21-2007, 11:17 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Dr_Gonz0 View Post
Oh god ... "Hemsky to Gomez, Gomez drops back to Hemksy, who feeds gomez a saucer pass. Gomez feeds hemsky in the slot and Hemsky ....back to Staios at the point." You get the picture.

Where is the finish?
Well to be fair, where is the finish when you have Hemsky and Horcoff together? Horc only has 13 goals, that's nothing to write home about.

Gomez and Horcoff are very similar players. It's who you would put with Hemsky+Horcoff or Hemsky+Gomez that should be the question.

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02-21-2007, 11:30 PM
  #97
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Darren Dreger said during the first intermission of tonights Sharks/Caps game that the Oilers have yet to decide if they'll be buyers or sellers, but said a lot of other GM's have been asking Kevin Lowe about Shawn Horcoff. Before the majority of you start rioting Dreger also stated that the price would be very high. My guess as to what Lowe would ask for would be a 1st, a 3rd, and a high end prospect. I would also guess Montreal would be the team most interested so maybe something like a 1st, a 4th, and Komisarek(I know he's not a prospect, but still a promising young d-man). If it was Atlanta, maybe there 1st, Coburn and Bourret with us throwing in a guy like Winchester.
I would long and hard at that deal if it were ever a realistic option. Coburn's been behind the other big two in development (Phaneuf, Suter) but there is still the potential for a #2 d-man with a pretty solid toolkit. Bourrett is the second coming of the little ball of hurt (Pat Verbeek). Adding a first round pick would be cherry on top.

I doubt Atlanta has the cap space to take on Horcoff. And this would be a bit hit to their development depth. I'll file it under wishful thinking.

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02-21-2007, 11:30 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
Did you see his finish on the Hemsky gift vs Toronto?? He isn't on the first PP because he has no finish at all. Just look at Petersen-Playing 10 minutes of PP time doesn't mean you will score points on the PP.
Peterson is an awful example since DB brought up pp production "rates". Horcoff on the pp this season is averaging 4.75 PPP/hr and yet you're comparing him to Toby who has yet to register a pt on the man advantage?

Sykora, as an example, has a rate of 4.44 PPP/hr.

Unless you have solid reasoning that Horcoff's production rates on the pp seriously decrease from this season and years prior, I'd say that you have no basis in saying he wouldn't have more pts playing more minutes on the powerplay.

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Old
02-21-2007, 11:49 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines View Post
I would long and hard at that deal if it were ever a realistic option. Coburn's been behind the other big two in development (Phaneuf, Suter) but there is still the potential for a #2 d-man with a pretty solid toolkit. Bourrett is the second coming of the little ball of hurt (Pat Verbeek). Adding a first round pick would be cherry on top.

I doubt Atlanta has the cap space to take on Horcoff. And this would be a bit hit to their development depth. I'll file it under wishful thinking.
HAHA! I've been waiting for someone to comment on that....I don't think Atlanta would do it either, but it would be a deal Lowe couldn't refuse.

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02-21-2007, 11:51 PM
  #100
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The talk about York possibly joining the Oilers next season had me thinking: would he have been any better this season with the team than Sykora has?
He would have been a better FIT IMO. We don't have a playmaker other then Hemsky and I think it's hurt Lupul to some degree. I think York playing with Lupul would be such an amazing fit, because first and foremost York fits with us better then he does with any other team in the league.

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