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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

If Wayne Gretzky were Russian

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Old
02-23-2007, 01:13 PM
  #26
XploD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
And i don't generally like yours for the same reasons.

But you're right,there is no comparable Russian player.So what's the point? we'll only get the answer when/if a player of that stature from Russia arrives.Whoever he is or may be he has'nt lived on this earth yet.
We'll there's a lot of threads asking questions that we can't get a definite answer to. Point of the thread is for posters to open their minds and speculate about the question, not necessarily find an answer to it.

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02-23-2007, 01:21 PM
  #27
YMB29
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Since Russia has not yet produced a player capable of dominating the game of hockey on the level of a Wayne Gretzky(and a few other players Canada has produced)
That is your biased opinion.

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02-23-2007, 01:31 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post

"Definitely, he saw the ice the same as me, passing the puck, hockey sense, probably as similar to me as any player who has played the game." - Wayne Gretzky speaking about Igor Larionov

i couldve sworn wayne said this about kurri.

i think gretz is being extremely generous in his praise here- as he usually is.


now to 'try' and answer your question. im sure he wouldnt have gotten the same praise. international plaeyrs have a bad stigma about them that is only broken through extremely hard work, gritty play, and championships. wayne was THE poster child for the sport because he was canadian, well spoken, marketable and so incredibly dominant.

if there was a "slava gretizov" with similar numbers during those same years....im sure he wouldve been demonized somehow, and accused of a myriad of performance enhancing drugs. these days; not so much.

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02-23-2007, 03:07 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by YMB29 View Post
That is your biased opinion.
No it isn't.

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02-23-2007, 03:16 PM
  #30
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Yes it is.

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Old
02-23-2007, 03:28 PM
  #31
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So says the guy who can't get over a loss that happened 20 years ago and has resorted to conspiracy theories to lessen the blow.

O.k,i'll bite...........who is she then?

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02-23-2007, 03:46 PM
  #32
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I Gretzky was Russian, we'd be discussing what if Mario was Russian?

If Mario was also Russian, we'd be discussing, what if Mario or Gretzky was Canadian...

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Old
02-23-2007, 03:55 PM
  #33
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It's just a thread camouflaged in such a way as to give some fans a license to take some shots and whine.

You can see it a mile away.

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02-23-2007, 04:44 PM
  #34
YMB29
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So says the guy who can't get over a loss that happened 20 years ago and has resorted to conspiracy theories to lessen the blow.
No conspiracy, only facts. It is Canadians like you who cannot get over the "win", saying things like it was the best hockey ever. I just showed what it really was by pointing out things that Canadian fans like you refuse to notice.
You are the one who is obsessed. I think that deep down you know that you are wrong about Soviet vs. Canadian hockey, but you are trying to prove to yourself the opposite. Your avatar is an example of how obsessed you are with this.

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Old
02-23-2007, 05:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
It's just a thread camouflaged in such a way as to give some fans a license to take some shots and whine.

You can see it a mile away.
And it's fairly easy to see which side is taking the most shots.

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Old
02-23-2007, 05:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
His grandfather (Walter's dad) was Russian I believe. With a name like Gretzky that isnt from Saskatoon either.


Nope, he was Ukrainian. Infact Walter, had a stroke and could only remember the Ukrainian language at one point.

I do believe as well, there may be some Polish genes involved too, and apparently 'Byelorussian'.

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02-23-2007, 06:29 PM
  #37
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I remember reading somewhere that Gretzky is from Belarus, and his grand-dad (or grnad-grand dad) fought in the White Army (or whatever it's called in english) when the '17 rebellion occured.

It made quite an history when Canada faced Belarus way back in 2002 at the Olympics.

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Old
02-23-2007, 07:17 PM
  #38
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Here are some links I found regarding this,

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-41-1546...f_hockey/clip5

"The child of Ukrainian immigrants, Walter Gretzky was born in 1938 and worked as a Bell Canada repairman for 37 years in the southwestern Ontario town of Brantford..."

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/tv/gretzky.html

"Walter was given a five per cent chance of living, but sprung awake days later, speaking Ukrainian, the language of his childhood..."

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Old
02-23-2007, 08:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by YMB29 View Post
No conspiracy, only facts. It is Canadians like you who cannot get over the "win", saying things like it was the best hockey ever. I just showed what it really was by pointing out things that Canadian fans like you refuse to notice.
You are the one who is obsessed. I think that deep down you know that you are wrong about Soviet vs. Canadian hockey, but you are trying to prove to yourself the opposite. Your avatar is an example of how obsessed you are with this.
So says your biased opinion.

Think again,I know deep down the Soviet Union got beat by a better Canadian hockey team.Just like they had before and just as surely as they would again.
And that sir,is a fact.Don't believe it? go and google past results and check out the scores yourself.

That should settle everything if you are as unbiased as you claim to be

The avatar?

That's something you know deep down about don't you? talk about rigging the resullts.


Last edited by espo*: 02-23-2007 at 08:38 PM.
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Old
02-23-2007, 08:34 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
And it's fairly easy to see which side is taking the most shots.
But not the first one!!


Don't forget that.And when somone draws first blood(like you knew they were going to) i'll take mine.That bother you nick?

If it does, consider what i've already said about how this thing can go nowhere but down.It never had a chance for anything else,but it was'nt me that started it and it was'nt me that brought the 'woe is us" up first.

If you're gonna give it................be sure to be able to take it.

No need of them getting all baby about it,they made their call.

Not interested in any crying.There will(and already has been) enough of that on it's own in this thread.

like i said,could it really go any other way?


Last edited by espo*: 02-23-2007 at 08:43 PM.
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Old
02-23-2007, 08:48 PM
  #41
TheDanceOfMaternity
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IF gretzky were Russian, he'd average 400 points the first five years, then sign a huge contract only to get 400 points for the remainder of his career.

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Old
02-23-2007, 09:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
But not the first one!!


Don't forget that.And when somone draws first blood(like you knew they were going to) i'll take mine.That bother you nick?

If it does, consider what i've already said about how this thing can go nowhere but down.It never had a chance for anything else,but it was'nt me that started it and it was'nt me that brought the 'woe is us" up first.

If you're gonna give it................be sure to be able to take it.

No need of them getting all baby about it,they made their call.

Not interested in any crying.There will(and already has been) enough of that on it's own in this thread.

like i said,could it really go any other way?
Not with you taking part, no.

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Old
02-23-2007, 09:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Not with you taking part, no.
And certainly not with you here.

But then again,you want to hear little ditties like..........."oh please help us mommy,we'd never get that kind of respect here in this league because we're not from the right side of the tracks"

Because that's what you want to see here,just like i said was the underlying
purpose of the whole thread.

It's for guys like you and your type.


Enjoy!! but don't say anyone can't dispute what they say and call it for what it is.
You're living proof.

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Old
02-23-2007, 10:32 PM
  #44
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Think again,I know deep down the Soviet Union got beat by a better Canadian hockey team.
A team that barely wins on home ice with such clear favorable refereeing is not better and you know it.


Quote:
Just like they had before and just as surely as they would again.
And that sir,is a fact.Don't believe it? go and google past results and check out the scores yourself. That should settle everything if you are as unbiased as you claim to be.
What are you talking about, what results?


Quote:
The avatar?

That's something you know deep down about don't you? talk about rigging the resullts.
It just shows your thinking of trying to discredit Soviet wins and the quality of Soviet hockey. I guess keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

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Old
02-23-2007, 10:40 PM
  #45
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Look. Knock it off already. You both know where each other stand and your pissing matches solve nothing.

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Old
02-23-2007, 10:42 PM
  #46
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What results? 76,72,91,84,2005..................where have you been all these years?

1987,you lost and you have'nt learned to yet deal with it,not our problem.Wishing won't change any result.

make excuses until you're 6 feet under if you want,won't change a thing.

Not a thing.

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Old
02-24-2007, 12:31 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
And certainly not with you here.

But then again,you want to hear little ditties like..........."oh please help us mommy,we'd never get that kind of respect here in this league because we're not from the right side of the tracks"

Because that's what you want to see here,just like i said was the underlying
purpose of the whole thread.
You're making a big deal out of nothing. It was a legitimate (and non-biased) question.

No, Gretzky's legacy would not be as great if he was Russian.....at least it wouldn't be in North America. Same reason Kharlamov wouldn't be considered as great in Russia even if he had the same career but was born in Canada. This isn't rocket science cyclops.

And I certainly think the Russian Gretzky would have been treated differently given the fact Fetisov, Kasatonov, Larionov, etc. weren't even given the time of day by half the NHL players in 1989 (including teammates). One can only imagine what it'd be like in 1981.
Like I said earlier, his skill would've eventually won everybody over but he wouldn't have the 'hero' worship he enjoys today.

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Old
02-24-2007, 12:44 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
What results? 76,72,91,84,2005..................where have you been all these years?

1987,you lost and you have'nt learned to yet deal with it,not our problem.Wishing won't change any result.

make excuses until you're 6 feet under if you want,won't change a thing.

Not a thing.
Noone will change the results but the truth is Soviet hockey was equal to Canadian hockey during the 70's and 80's. The Canadian team never swept the soviets, the games were tight.

And please change your avatar, it is just plain nonsense (remember Canada Cup '81?).
What was the final result now again?

Also at least one of those wins by team Canada was smuthered by dirty plays
In '72 Bobby Clarke slashes Valeri Kharlamov breaking/fracturing his ankle (the soviets were about to walk away with the series until that point). The canadian assistant coach later was quoted that he had requested Clarke to slash Kharlamov, great sportsmanship there.

I'm not pro-canadian or pro-soviet I just know great hockey when I see it.

As for the thread: if Gretzky would have been russian with the same acomplishments he would still be recognized as the greatest player ever, why would his citizenship make a difference? I really hope I'm not being naive with that statement.

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Old
02-24-2007, 01:55 AM
  #49
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http://www.eurohockey.net/players/sh...i?serial=27036

Don't hear much about him when talking about the best of all time, uh?

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Old
02-24-2007, 02:04 AM
  #50
YMB29
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What results? 76,72,91,84,2005..................where have you been all these years?
2005? Canada did not even beat the Soviets in 91. And how many of these wins were clean and against the best Soviet teams (since you seem to only want to talk about what you think is best vs. best)?
I can do this too. What about 74, 79, 81, 82, 89? No controversy with these Soviet wins against very good or the best Canadian teams.


Quote:
1987,you lost and you have'nt learned to yet deal with it,not our problem.Wishing won't change any result.

make excuses until you're 6 feet under if you want,won't change a thing.

Not a thing
Excuses?
So to you, Canada won the games in 87 fairly with no controversy? Koharski was neutral in his officiating and did a good job?
Pointing out those numerous bad calls/no-calls won't change the result, but it will change the way people look at Canadian "wins" and Canadian vs. Soviet hockey.


Last edited by YMB29: 02-24-2007 at 02:13 AM.
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