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Is Z Swedish best forward now?

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Old
02-23-2007, 04:19 PM
  #1
14ari13
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Is Z Swedish best forward now?

I can't say "player" because I do not want to compare him to Lidstrom.

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02-23-2007, 04:28 PM
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Have to say he is. Even if he wouldn't lead the points, he would still be the best forward, but he leads the Swedish points.

And Lidstrm is the best Swedish player of all time.

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02-23-2007, 04:39 PM
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I made a post earlier today in the rank the swedish players thread on the main board and wrote that Z is the best swedish forward right now, so I'm not changing my mind now in case anyone wonders .

I mean if Z isn't the best then who would be.

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02-23-2007, 04:51 PM
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Right now I'd say that it's a tie between Hank and Mats Sundin, because no Swedish forward has ever displayed such high level of consistency so long, not to mention handling the captaincy in the hardest media market in the hockey world. Lids is miles ahead of them both though if we're ranking best Swedish player.

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03-01-2007, 11:54 PM
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Zetts is having a monster year. And had a huge one last year as well. Thing is he had Datsyuk centering him, and always on the powerplay.

I guess what I am wondering is if he can keep it up without Datyuk because odds are he ain't coming back.

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03-02-2007, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
Zetts is having a monster year. And had a huge one last year as well. Thing is he had Datsyuk centering him, and always on the powerplay.

I guess what I am wondering is if he can keep it up without Datyuk because odds are he ain't coming back.
The killer run Z had from about New Year's on was with him at center and Pavel on the wing.

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03-02-2007, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
Zetts is having a monster year. And had a huge one last year as well. Thing is he had Datsyuk centering him, and always on the powerplay.

I guess what I am wondering is if he can keep it up without Datyuk because odds are he ain't coming back.
I think you should be wondering if Datsyuk can play without Zetterberg if he doesn't come back
Zetterberg has been the center on the 1st line, like Norrisnick said
and Zetterberg always gives 120% every game it seems

anyway
I would say that right now Zetterberg is the best Swedish forward

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03-02-2007, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ahall89nhl View Post
I think you should be wondering if Datsyuk can play without Zetterberg if he doesn't come back
Zetterberg has been the center on the 1st line, like Norrisnick said
and Zetterberg always gives 120% every game it seems

anyway
I would say that right now Zetterberg is the best Swedish forward
Dats should start scoring more if anything. Z IS that line, but I don't think he would be doing as well as he is without Dats playing with him as well...those two remind me honestly of Gabby/Demitra, St Louis/Lecavier, etc

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03-02-2007, 08:49 AM
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To answer your question, Zetterberg IMO is without a doubt the best Swedish forward in the league. Yes I know Sundin is still playing well, but when looking at what both bring to the table at this point, Hank is without question the better player. The only peer I see is a reasonably healthy Forsberg. Let me add that while Hank is IMO the best player on this team, DO NOT overlook how much having Datsyuk on his wing enhances Zetterberg's game. Datsyuk makes Zetterberg a better player.

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03-02-2007, 10:01 AM
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Sundin > Hank, but it won't be that way for much longer.

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03-02-2007, 10:47 AM
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Sundin > Hank, but it won't be that way for much longer.
Yeah, I think I give the edge to Sundin because I can't think of a more consistent player. From day one it seems he could be counted on 30-40 G and 50-60 helpers per season. Every season, no matter what else seems to be going on around him. He's had the better seasons when the team was better, but his production has suffered too much when fortune swings in the other direction.

We also forget just how big this guy. He's a friggin' mountain of a man. Mt Sundin stands at 6'5" and 230 lbs. Yet he's an excellent skater, is highly skilled and not just some pylon on the ice. An a proven leader, getting the nod as captain on a national team with stars like Forsberg and Lidstrom as peers. He also has a meaner streak than I've seen in Z which probably helps you a bit in the playoffs. Yes, Matts is on the decline and Z is likely the next great Swedish forward, but we can't write him off just yet. 1213 GP with 1225 points. That's a lot to write off.

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03-02-2007, 12:45 PM
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Sundin > Hank, but it won't be that way for much longer.
I'll put it this way....if I have one game to play in Game 7 of a Cup Final, I want Zetterberg. Frankly, aside from a better shot and slightly better scoring touch, tell me one thing Sundin does better than Hank? From a playmaking and defensive standpoint, Zetterberg has a clear advantage. Both arent outstanding face-off men, so that's a wash. The excuse for Sundin has always been the wingers he's had to play with, hence he hasn't put up the numbers he potentially could. I submit as evidence of Zetterberg's superiority the names Samuelsson and Holmstrom....Hank had an outstanding year with those two on his wing, and likewise they both had career years with him centering them. I respect Sundin's career and what he's accomplished, but Zetterberg passed him up last season. If anything you can make a better argument for Alfredsson than Sundin.

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03-02-2007, 10:06 PM
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Sundin

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Old
03-03-2007, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8snake View Post
I'll put it this way....if I have one game to play in Game 7 of a Cup Final, I want Zetterberg. Frankly, aside from a better shot and slightly better scoring touch, tell me one thing Sundin does better than Hank? From a playmaking and defensive standpoint, Zetterberg has a clear advantage. Both arent outstanding face-off men, so that's a wash. The excuse for Sundin has always been the wingers he's had to play with, hence he hasn't put up the numbers he potentially could. I submit as evidence of Zetterberg's superiority the names Samuelsson and Holmstrom....Hank had an outstanding year with those two on his wing, and likewise they both had career years with him centering them. I respect Sundin's career and what he's accomplished, but Zetterberg passed him up last season. If anything you can make a better argument for Alfredsson than Sundin.
If there is one game on the line and I need a great Centerman winning faceoffs, Sundin would be among my first choices.

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03-03-2007, 08:50 AM
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I think Lidstrom is by far the best player in the league (that's my opinion).
Forsberg is Swedish best forward and he is even better than Lidstrom when healthy, but he has been nowhere near being healthy therefore he does not come close to Lidstrom.
Zetterberg is not good as Forsberg, but I think Z is better than all other Swedish players, Forsberg included cause Forsberg can't stay healthy.

Sundin is very much liked by media and the fans, but he is not close to being that good as his popularity goes. Toronto media makes some players much better/popular (Joseph, Sundin, ... ) so they become popular with the fans and in Sundin case he gets a lot of attention in Sweden as well, but it is just the hype.

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03-03-2007, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
I think Lidstrom is by far the best player in the league (that's my opinion).
Forsberg is Swedish best forward and he is even better than Lidstrom when healthy, but he has been nowhere near being healthy therefore he does not come close to Lidstrom.
Zetterberg is not good as Forsberg, but I think Z is better than all other Swedish players, Forsberg included cause Forsberg can't stay healthy.

Sundin is very much liked by media and the fans, but he is not close to being that good as his popularity goes. Toronto media makes some players much better/popular (Joseph, Sundin, ... ) so they become popular with the fans and in Sundin case he gets a lot of attention in Sweden as well, but it is just the hype.
Sundin has been one of the best "money" players for Sweden every time he's worn the three crowns. It's not just the hype, thank you very much. I can't remember him having a bad game for the national team.

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03-03-2007, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
I think Lidstrom is by far the best player in the league (that's my opinion).
Forsberg is Swedish best forward and he is even better than Lidstrom when healthy, but he has been nowhere near being healthy therefore he does not come close to Lidstrom.
Zetterberg is not good as Forsberg, but I think Z is better than all other Swedish players, Forsberg included cause Forsberg can't stay healthy.

Sundin is very much liked by media and the fans, but he is not close to being that good as his popularity goes. Toronto media makes some players much better/popular (Joseph, Sundin, ... ) so they become popular with the fans and in Sundin case he gets a lot of attention in Sweden as well, but it is just the hype.



This I can never accept. I have a hard time saying ANY player in the NHL is better than a 4-time, maybe 5-time Norris winner, and runner-up several other years. Nick will go down on the list, at least top 10, of best D men ever. He probably should've been the Norris winner for 10 years straight, in my opinion, but staying that close to the top the entire time is stuff legends are made of... not just the best Swedes. Forsberg can and should be compared to the greatest forwards and centers to ever play in the NHL. He's an incredible talent too-- but to say he's greater than Lidstrom? I can't do it.

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03-03-2007, 10:00 AM
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Whenever Sundin has gotten to play with the same supporting cast as all the other stars, hes shown the world that hes the best.

In international tournaments, hes been the best player the last decade. Better than Jagr, Forsberg and everyone else.

Hes played with crappioli his entire career is Toronto, and is still right up there with the big guns.

Even though hes respected around the league, hes probably the most underrated player ever.


But right now... Z is probably better.

Forsberg isnt even top-20 anymore.

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03-03-2007, 10:06 AM
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It always annoys me that people say "Forsberg is the best in the world - when healthy". He's never healthy. He's had, what, one healthy season? Why don't people just settle for saying that he's the most talented player in the world? That doesn't need him to actually play. He's not been himself in years.

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03-03-2007, 10:56 AM
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14ari13
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This I can never accept. I have a hard time saying ANY player in the NHL is better than a 4-time, maybe 5-time Norris winner, and runner-up several other years. Nick will go down on the list, at least top 10, of best D men ever. He probably should've been the Norris winner for 10 years straight, in my opinion, but staying that close to the top the entire time is stuff legends are made of... not just the best Swedes. Forsberg can and should be compared to the greatest forwards and centers to ever play in the NHL. He's an incredible talent too-- but to say he's greater than Lidstrom? I can't do it.
I think Lidstrom is by far the best player in the league (that's my opinion).
Forsberg is Swedish best forward and he is even better than Lidstrom when healthy, but he has been nowhere near being healthy therefore he does not come close to Lidstrom.

Fugu, I clearly put Lidstrom ahead of everyone, not just Swedish players, but all players in the world. But believe me this, Lidstrom is much more appreciated in NA and in the world than he is in Sweden. It is shocking that they do not realize how great he is.

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03-03-2007, 11:05 AM
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Whenever Sundin has gotten to play with the same supporting cast as all the other stars, hes shown the world that hes the best.
You got it all wrong. When Sundin got to play with the real stars (gold medal game) then he finally won something. Sundin can not be compared to Lidstom and Forsberg, period. Those 2 are so much better it's plain stupid to think they can be compared.

Sundin has done nothing, it is all the media and the hype and the same moment he takes his skates off, he'll be forgotten. Sorry, but that's how it is.

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03-03-2007, 11:12 AM
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You got it all wrong. When Sundin got to play with the real stars (gold medal game) then he finally won something. Sundin can not be compared to Lidstom and Forsberg, period. Those 2 are so much better it's plain stupid to think they can be compared.

Sundin has done nothing, it is all the media and the hype and the same moment he takes his skates off, he'll be forgotten. Sorry, but that's how it is.
Forsberg WERE better. He's not better now. He's faaaaar too inconsistent.

Sundin is the king of Sweden when it comes to hockey. Foppa has had more talent, but no one has been as consistent as Sundin with the national team. He's clutch. He has the most OT goals in NHL history. This record also belongs to Sundin:

# Most consecutive 70-or-more point seasons (13) (excluding the shortened 1994-95 NHL season) (shared with Wayne Gretzky)

You saying that he'll be forgotten as soon as he hangs up his skates is inane, ignorant babbling. You look like a fool for saying something like that.

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Old
03-03-2007, 11:21 AM
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I think Lidstrom is by far the best player in the league (that's my opinion).
Forsberg is Swedish best forward and he is even better than Lidstrom when healthy, but he has been nowhere near being healthy therefore he does not come close to Lidstrom.

Fugu, I clearly put Lidstrom ahead of everyone, not just Swedish players, but all players in the world. But believe me this, Lidstrom is much more appreciated in NA and in the world than he is in Sweden. It is shocking that they do not realize how great he is.

I think the differences in our conclusions come from you putting in the qualifier about Forsberg's health. I think it is reasonable to believe Foppa would have produced even greater results if he'd remained healthy. That is not a guarantee, but it might be a reasonable bet to place. Yet even assuming Foppa had not had his health issues, I wouldn't discount Lidstrom's standing. He simply is great, amongst the best ever, and Peter's health would not have caused me to place him ahead of Lidstrom.

Yet even in NA he is often overlooked. Why he doesn't have a few more Harts under his belt is beyond me. It's a point a few bloggers are starting to pick up on now, but he was one of the most significant reasons one of the greatest teams of the past 10 years has been great. How you place ANY other player in the NHL ahead of that feat is beyond me.

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03-03-2007, 11:26 AM
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Forsberg WERE better. He's not better now. He's faaaaar too inconsistent.

Sundin is the king of Sweden when it comes to hockey. Foppa has had more talent, but no one has been as consistent as Sundin with the national team. He's clutch. He has the most OT goals in NHL history. This record also belongs to Sundin:

# Most consecutive 70-or-more point seasons (13) (excluding the shortened 1994-95 NHL season) (shared with Wayne Gretzky)

You saying that he'll be forgotten as soon as he hangs up his skates is inane, ignorant babbling. You look like a fool for saying something like that.
How does that work when Jagr has 14? Including the shortened '94-'95 season.

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03-03-2007, 11:34 AM
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How does that work when Jagr has 14? Including the shortened '94-'95 season.
Sundin's well on pace to crack 70 this season as well and then he'll have 14 too (although with the 94-95 exclusion).

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