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Wings making progress with Datsyuk

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Old
02-25-2007, 02:26 AM
  #1
Ricelund
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Wings making progress with Datsyuk

Bob Duff:

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It was expected that the contract negotiations between the Wings and impending free agent Datsyuk would be acrimonious, but word for Wings sources is that the two sides are making process and they might agree to terms prior to the conclusion of the season

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02-25-2007, 09:00 AM
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jacK
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maybe Hank's putting bugs in Pavel's ear, telling him/his agent to stop being ******... they've got something special and it's stupid to let money get in the way, especially when it's money you haven't earned.

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02-25-2007, 09:27 AM
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It's probably wishful thinking but it would be great if Hank and Dats will cost a collective $11 or 12 million between the two of them after they both sign their next deals. Zetterberg will be due a huge raise...probably great than the one Dats will get. Seeing those two play together this past two months shows me that Holland has to keep Datsyuk and since he locked up Holmstrom for three more years and Hank has a year or two left...it has to be Kenny's #1 goal to sign Pavel before July. I think Babcock has struck oil when he put those three guys together on a line. They should never be split up and Holland just needs to work on improving the other three lines.

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02-25-2007, 10:01 AM
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Typical Holland.

Datsyuk is starting to put up some points, so sign him when he's at his best/most expensive. Where have I seen this before?

I don't like to be too critical of Holland, because he puts good teams on the ice, but he does overpay to keep his own and eventually with the salary cap that's going to come back and hurt this team.

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02-25-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Typical Holland.

Datsyuk is starting to put up some points, so sign him when he's at his best/most expensive. Where have I seen this before?

I don't like to be too critical of Holland, because he puts good teams on the ice, but he does overpay to keep his own and eventually with the salary cap that's going to come back and hurt this team.
Get real! Typical Holland?

Holland and the Wings would gladly like to sign Datsyuk or any player as cheap as possible, but the market determines the value not Holland or any single GM.

The only question is if Datsyuk will take "less" to stay with the Wings.

You know very well that as the most fans that the Wings/Holland offered the deal to Datsyuk in the beginning of the season when D was slumping, but Datsyuk and his agent smartly refused that offer. It is business for both sides and they are doing their business.

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02-25-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Typical Holland.

Datsyuk is starting to put up some points, so sign him when he's at his best/most expensive. Where have I seen this before?

I don't like to be too critical of Holland, because he puts good teams on the ice, but he does overpay to keep his own and eventually with the salary cap that's going to come back and hurt this team.
Uh Boom, Datsyuk wasn't going to sign for anything less than he was asking for even if Holland demanded to get the deal done earlier.

Will you stop with the typical Holland BS, both with this and Holmstrom, why would EITHER player want to negotiate when they were playing like crap? They knew their play would come around.

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02-25-2007, 01:40 PM
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As long as he stays...he wants to, we want him to stay...if we can get him under contract, I say good job.

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02-25-2007, 02:17 PM
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At what point do you say this is all we can afford, and take it or leave it? You can't put yourself in a position where all you can do is re-sign your own players at any cost. Holland has not shown that he can say goodbye to players, and because of that he misses out on other players. Datsyuk has shown that he can only play with a guy like Zetterberg, he can't be a second line center, so how much do you pay to keep around a guy who can only be effective with a certain player in certain situations?

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02-25-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
Holland has not shown that he can say goodbye to players, and because of that he misses out on other players.
That's certainly news to (since the 01-02 season) Legace, Hasek, Joseph, Fedorov, Shanahan, Hull, Robitialle, Larionov, McCarty, Mowers, Whitney, Deveraux, Dandenault, Hatcher, Rivers, Woolley, Thomas, Bykov, Avery, Duchesne, Olausson, Kuznetzov...

Wow... for a guy who doesn't say goodbye to players parting ways with that many in 4 seasons and change seems sort of odd.

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02-25-2007, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jacK View Post
maybe Hank's putting bugs in Pavel's ear, telling him/his agent to stop being ******... they've got something special and it's stupid to let money get in the way, especially when it's money you haven't earned.
Or Maybe Ken Holland only gets down to serious negotiations when the guy on the other side of the table is on a super hot streak.

To be fair, maybe Greenstin and company had a ridiculous demand while Datsyuk was slumping ...

I just hope that the sides getting closer have more to do with Datsyuk's camp's reducing demands than it does have to do with Holland increasing the offer based on Datsyuk's recent production.

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02-25-2007, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Uh Boom, Datsyuk wasn't going to sign for anything less than he was asking for even if Holland demanded to get the deal done earlier.

Will you stop with the typical Holland BS, both with this and Holmstrom, why would EITHER player want to negotiate when they were playing like crap? They knew their play would come around.
Would you quit with your typical Holland apologist act?
Didn't think so.

Either player would negotiate, regardless of early season production.
(granted, I don't think they'd accept contracts based on that decreased production).

Here's a question for the Datsyuk haters, though.
What if Datsyuk gets his 5-year, $27M deal?
And then sucks in the playoffs?

I love watching Datsyuk play. He's one of the top 5 entertaining forward I've ever seen.
However, if I was Holland, I'd keep negotiations going slowly and not sign a damn thing until after the playoffs, unless you can get a SWEET deal ($4.5M a year or less).

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02-25-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Or Maybe Ken Holland only gets down to serious negotiations when the guy on the other side of the table is on a super hot streak.

To be fair, maybe Greenstin and company had a ridiculous demand while Datsyuk was slumping ...

I just hope that the sides getting closer have more to do with Datsyuk's camp's reducing demands than it does have to do with Holland increasing the offer based on Datsyuk's recent production.
Or maybe Datsyuk and as long as every other player in the entire NHL would rather not talk extensions when they're playing like crap.

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02-25-2007, 03:59 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Would you quit with your typical Holland apologist act?
Didn't think so.

Either player would negotiate, regardless of early season production.
(granted, I don't think they'd accept contracts based on that decreased production).
The funny thing is that Tincan calls Heaton a Holland apologist... and then proceeds to agree with him two lines later.

Now that, my friends, is high comedy.

Quote:
Here's a question for the Datsyuk haters, though.
What if Datsyuk gets his 5-year, $27M deal?
I don't even have to know the rest of it. 5 years, 27 mil is too long. Not too much, just too long. I could (just... barely...) live with 4 years and 20-22. Actually, scratch that, no I couldn't. I would prefer 3 years and 15-16. I would do handstands and backflips if he got 2 years and 10-12.

As far as waiting till after the playoffs... if he does that he might as well just forget about keeping him. Someone will be stupid and go 6 mil a year. We know this. 29 GMs could know his value and all it takes is one moron to go out and screw up the market for everyone else.

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02-25-2007, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's certainly news to (since the 01-02 season) Legace, Hasek, Joseph, Fedorov, Shanahan, Hull, Robitialle, Larionov, McCarty, Mowers, Whitney, Deveraux, Dandenault, Hatcher, Rivers, Woolley, Thomas, Bykov, Avery, Duchesne, Olausson, Kuznetzov...

Wow... for a guy who doesn't say goodbye to players parting ways with that many in 4 seasons and change seems sort of odd.

Hasek and Duchense retired on them. Joseph, Shanahan, Dandenault and Fedorov walked away from them, they weren't asked to leave. Who was it that paid McCarty 2mm/yr in the first place? It was a bad contract that they were able to buy out. The rest of them were borderline players, it was a no brainer to let them walk. So I stand by my position that the Wings can not say goodbye to players

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02-25-2007, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Would you quit with your typical Holland apologist act?
Didn't think so.
What typical apologist act? I don't hate the Kronwall contract so I'm a Holland apologist? I don't want to let Holmstrom walk so I'm a Holland apologist?

I bashed and criticized Holland all off season. You can actually like and hate things about a GM you know, you don't have to disagree with everything or love everything he does. This isn't politics.

Would you quit with your typical I could do better than anything Babcock or Holland does and everyone who doesn't agree with me is a rose colored homer and has no clue what they're talking about act?
Didn't think so.

Want me to copy and paste my rant for you again?

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02-25-2007, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's certainly news to (since the 01-02 season) Legace, Hasek, Joseph, Fedorov, Shanahan, Hull, Robitialle, Larionov, McCarty, Mowers, Whitney, Deveraux, Dandenault, Hatcher, Rivers, Woolley, Thomas, Bykov, Avery, Duchesne, Olausson, Kuznetzov...

.

You have to be kidding.

Fedorov - offered more by Holland than Ducks
Shanahan - same
McCarty - Had to be bought out b/c Holland overpayed to keep him
Hatcher and Whitney - same boat, but htey weren't originally re-signees
Thomas - was 150 year olds and finished his career with the Wings???
Duchense - same
Devereaux, Olausson, Kutznetsov, Rivers, Mowers, Bykov - spare parts
Avery - Traded
Hull - no room under cap
Joseph - both wanted to seperate so bad it hurt.

seriously who's point are you proving?

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02-25-2007, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post

You know very well that as the most fans that the Wings/Holland offered the deal to Datsyuk in the beginning of the season when D was slumping, but Datsyuk and his agent smartly refused that offer..
Nothing has changed, so I don't see why they were so far apart and now they are getting closer, unless Holland has since upped his offer ( no way Datsyuk's camp has). There is no reason for Holland to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton
Uh Boom, Datsyuk wasn't going to sign for anything less than he was asking for even if Holland demanded to get the deal done earlier.
That's fair
But again, what has changed? I doubt Datyuk's production has lead to his agent lowering the demands, it's another case of Holland negotiating from a position of weakness and that's why they're getting closer.

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02-25-2007, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
Hasek and Duchense retired on them. Joseph, Shanahan, Dandenault and Fedorov walked away from them, they weren't asked to leave. Who was it that paid McCarty 2mm/yr in the first place? It was a bad contract that they were able to buy out. The rest of them were borderline players, it was a no brainer to let them walk. So I stand by my position that the Wings can not say goodbye to players
Stand by whatever you want.

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02-25-2007, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
The funny thing is that Tincan calls Heaton a Holland apologist... and then proceeds to agree with him two lines later.

Now that, my friends, is high comedy.



I don't even have to know the rest of it. 5 years, 27 mil is too long. Not too much, just too long. I could (just... barely...) live with 4 years and 20-22. Actually, scratch that, no I couldn't. I would prefer 3 years and 15-16. I would do handstands and backflips if he got 2 years and 10-12.

As far as waiting till after the playoffs... if he does that he might as well just forget about keeping him. Someone will be stupid and go 6 mil a year. We know this. 29 GMs could know his value and all it takes is one moron to go out and screw up the market for everyone else.
Go away, HiHd. You bore me.

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02-25-2007, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
What typical apologist act? I don't hate the Kronwall contract so I'm a Holland apologist? I don't want to let Holmstrom walk so I'm a Holland apologist?

I bashed and criticized Holland all off season. You can actually like and hate things about a GM you know, you don't have to disagree with everything or love everything he does. This isn't politics.

Would you quit with your typical I could do better than anything Babcock or Holland does and everyone who doesn't agree with me is a rose colored homer and has no clue what they're talking about act?
Didn't think so.

Want me to copy and paste my rant for you again?
Obviously you didn't get the point.
You want to ***** at someone for their "typical bashing of Holland."

If you're gonna do that, you better be prepared to be called an apologist.

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02-25-2007, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Obviously you didn't get the point.
You want to ***** at someone for their "typical bashing of Holland."

If you're gonna do that, you better be prepared to be called an apologist.
So this is politics? Either agree with everything that one party says or you're changing sides that quickly?

There is some gray area, SMOE. It's OK to venture to the other side every once in a while.

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02-25-2007, 05:30 PM
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I'd say that Heaton has been bashing and praising Holland fairly equally, with a very slight slant to the bashing side of things. He's not an apologist.

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02-25-2007, 05:32 PM
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You have to be kidding.
No, I'm not kidding. I provided a list of a ton of guys Holland let walk. You guys can make a bunch of excuses for why the players left... but that's not a big difference from what usually happens with regards to Holland: he gets blame for the bad but no credit for the good. You call guys 'spare parts' and how other teams offered such and such... but if Holland was so attached to keeping players why would that make a difference? He'd just keep the bad players and ratchet up the offers to the others, right?

Let's put this another way... how many guys has Holland let go who have gone on to make the team regret doing so? Whitney, maybe?

Seems to me that a test of a good GM is letting go of players who aren't a big help... not just tossing players aside who help the team and are assets to make it look like something is being done.

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02-25-2007, 05:34 PM
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Go away, HiHd. You bore me.
You need to run for office or something so you can surround yourself with yes-men and insulate yourself wholly from having to deal with opposing positions.

You deal with them so terribly.

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02-25-2007, 05:34 PM
  #25
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I'd say that Heaton has been bashing and praising Holland fairly equally, with a very slight slant to the bashing side of things. He's not an apologist.
Uhhm, he said I was feeding the Holland BS.

All I said is Holland doesn't step up negotiations until he's the one behind the 8-ball, I don't see where I'm wrong. In this case they were at a complete stale mate (with Dats) and Holland said they were going to wait until after the season to negotiate.
Now this... I wonder which side is moving?

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