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2 things that have come out of yesterday's "situation"

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Old
12-11-2003, 04:22 AM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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2 things that have come out of yesterday's "situation"

1 If Comrie had previously been agreeable to only a few teams, then his list just got a lot longer. I am guessing that he would now accept a trade to the Siberia Muskox of the Russian Super League just to get out of town.

2 any team dealing with kevin now has a pretty good idea of what the final contract for comrie will look like. At 1.65 for a guy who can score 30 and be your number one centre, there should be a lot of interest. There were rumours that he was asking for 4.5 mill and that could have scared off a lot of potentail suitors.

on ched this morning, it is reported that 6 teams are now talking trade with Lowe. IMO, yesterday's events have really helped clear up the situation.


Last edited by Mr Sakich: 12-11-2003 at 06:10 AM.
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Old
12-11-2003, 06:57 AM
  #2
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Interesting point....

Rangers....Jessiman or Tjutin, 1st rounder, $4 million dollars
Flyers...Woywitka, 1st rounder, $3 million dollars
Chicago...Babchuk, 1st rounder, $3 million dollars

Hmm...I am beginning to see some upside to Lowe wearing a black hat.

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12-11-2003, 07:10 AM
  #3
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I say this is a good move by Lowe. Here's why;

Market value for a 60 pt/23 yr old forward should be another 60 pt/23 yr old in a perfect world.(that is just a starting point for my argument)

Market for a the same player holding out drops his value (in terms of return) around the league.

Market for the same player holding out and demanding a trade drops his value (in terms of return) even more.

Market value for the same player holding out, demanding a trade and only willing to sign with one or two teams causes the bottom to fall out completely on his market value.

So Brian Murray tells Lowe that the best he is willing to offer is a propsect and a pick, knowing full well that his offer is the only one that counts because Comrie won't sign anywhere else.

Lowe knows that he can get more for Mike because there have reportedly been offers but the deals won't fly because Comrie won't sign with those teams.

Now these events don't change Comrie's hockey abilities and therefore his worth in Lowes eyes is still that of a young 60 pt forward, so Lowe is getting frustrated. He can't pursue the deal that makes sense for him because Comrie won't co-operate, Murray won't up the anti because he knows that he is the only game in town.

What can Lowe do?

Well by asking Comrie for the money he resets the market back to where is should be.

He doesn't want the money, he wants better players so he won't ask Anaheim for the money because that just results in Lowe needing to make another deal that otherwise wouldn't be necessary. So he tells Comrie to pay up. Which will result in one of two things;

Comrie will now say no and with that he will now know that the Anaheim option will now be dead. This will allow Lowe to pursue one of the other deals with more co-operation from Comrie.

The second option is that Anaheim really wants Comrie and will now come back to the table ready to give up what is considered more of the market value for a player of Comrie's ability and age. Basically Lowe manages to bring back the market value of his player.

Basically he isn't using the money as a deal maker but as a deal breaker so he can move on to other offers that makes more sense for the club.

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12-11-2003, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Interesting point....

Rangers....Jessiman or Tjutin, 1st rounder, $4 million dollars
Flyers...Woywitka, 1st rounder, $3 million dollars
Chicago...Babchuk, 1st rounder, $3 million dollars

Hmm...I am beginning to see some upside to Lowe wearing a black hat.
Are these actual deals on the table?

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12-11-2003, 07:20 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I say this is a good move by Lowe. Here's why;

Market value for a 60 pt/23 yr old forward should be another 60 pt/23 yr old in a perfect world.(that is just a starting point for my argument)

Market for a the same player holding out drops his value (in terms of return) around the league.

Market for the same player holding out and demanding a trade drops his value (in terms of return) even more.

Market value for the same player holding out, demanding a trade and only willing to sign with one or two teams causes the bottom to fall out completely on his market value.

So Brian Murray tells Lowe that the best he is willing to offer is a propsect and a pick, knowing full well that his offer is the only one that counts because Comrie won't sign anywhere else.

Lowe knows that he can get more for Mike because there have reportedly been offers but the deals won't fly because Comrie won't sign with those teams.

Now these events don't change Comrie's hockey abilities and therefore his worth in Lowes eyes is still that of a young 60 pt forward, so Lowe is getting frustrated. He can't pursue the deal that makes sense for him because Comrie won't co-operate, Murray won't up the anti because he knows that he is the only game in town.

What can Lowe do?

Well by asking Comrie for the money he resets the market back to where is should be.

He doesn't want the money, he wants better players so he won't ask Anaheim for the money because that just results in Lowe needing to make another deal that otherwise wouldn't be necessary. So he tells Comrie to pay up. Which will result in one of two things;

Comrie will now say no and with that he will now know that the Anaheim option will now be dead. This will allow Lowe to pursue one of the other deals with more co-operation from Comrie.

The second option is that Anaheim really wants Comrie and will now come back to the table ready to give up what is considered more of the market value for a player of Comrie's ability and age. Basically Lowe manages to bring back the market value of his player.

Basically he isn't using the money as a deal maker but as a deal breaker so he can move on to other offers that makes more sense for the club.

Well said. People can call Lowe what ever they want. He's doing the good and right thing for the OILERS! I would expect NOTHING less. And I'm pretty sure that 99.99% of Oilers fans out there are the same! Lowe is leading the charge against over-payed pouting FAs who think if they have some patience they can get what ever they want. And you know what- I hope this has something big with the CBA! Lowe, no doubt, will be a BIG voice in there as he is probably the loudest small market GM in the NHL.

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Old
12-11-2003, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy3650
Are these actual deals on the table?
Not at all, they are parallels with other teams that have the similar components to the Anaheim deal.

If there are new teams at the bargaining table they those are suggestions using the Anaheim deal as the model.

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12-11-2003, 08:01 AM
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one of the best posters on oilfans (sunshines dad) had another angle on this: in addition to clearing things up, this could also be a stall tactic on lowe's part. It could be that murray is pushing for a deal right now and lowe is trying to up the ante that other teams might offer before committing to it. It may be working as there is supposed to be renewed interest from 6 teams.

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12-11-2003, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
one of the best posters on oilfans (sunshines dad) had another angle on this: in addition to clearing things up, this could also be a stall tactic on lowe's part. It could be that murray is pushing for a deal right now and lowe is trying to up the ante that other teams might offer before committing to it. It may be working as there is supposed to be renewed interest from 6 teams.
Perhaps, as Murray definately was pressuring Lowe. I didn't like his comment about the Ducks willing to deal only if the Oilers wanted to come to the table. That's nice to say, but only if you're willing to deal for even close to fair value.

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12-11-2003, 08:22 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
one of the best posters on oilfans (sunshines dad) had another angle on this: in addition to clearing things up, this could also be a stall tactic on lowe's part. It could be that murray is pushing for a deal right now and lowe is trying to up the ante that other teams might offer before committing to it. It may be working as there is supposed to be renewed interest from 6 teams.
Perhaps but...

No matter what peoples opinions of Lowe are as far as how well he has traded or wisely spent money I honestly don't think that his intent is to be devious in his dealings or that he doesn't do what he feels is the very best he can for the team. Although I haven't agreed with every decision, he is one of the few Professional Sports figures that strikes me as being honest and a straight shooter... so to speak.

I don't think he is looking to stall and ultimately draw this thing out even longer, I think he simply didn't like the deal and needed to get everyones attention (I'm looking at you Mr. Comrie) so that he can move on to what makes more sense for the team.

This thing has turn into such a soap opera that I don't think Lowe is necessarily looking for a home run deal anymore but he does need to get fair return and Anaheim wasn't offering it, irregardless of if Comrie and Winter thought differently.

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12-11-2003, 08:42 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I say this is a good move by Lowe. Here's why;

Market value for a 60 pt/23 yr old forward should be another 60 pt/23 yr old in a perfect world.(that is just a starting point for my argument)

Market for a the same player holding out drops his value (in terms of return) around the league.

Market for the same player holding out and demanding a trade drops his value (in terms of return) even more.

Market value for the same player holding out, demanding a trade and only willing to sign with one or two teams causes the bottom to fall out completely on his market value.

So Brian Murray tells Lowe that the best he is willing to offer is a propsect and a pick, knowing full well that his offer is the only one that counts because Comrie won't sign anywhere else.

Lowe knows that he can get more for Mike because there have reportedly been offers but the deals won't fly because Comrie won't sign with those teams.

Now these events don't change Comrie's hockey abilities and therefore his worth in Lowes eyes is still that of a young 60 pt forward, so Lowe is getting frustrated. He can't pursue the deal that makes sense for him because Comrie won't co-operate, Murray won't up the anti because he knows that he is the only game in town.

What can Lowe do?

Well by asking Comrie for the money he resets the market back to where is should be.

He doesn't want the money, he wants better players so he won't ask Anaheim for the money because that just results in Lowe needing to make another deal that otherwise wouldn't be necessary. So he tells Comrie to pay up. Which will result in one of two things;

Comrie will now say no and with that he will now know that the Anaheim option will now be dead. This will allow Lowe to pursue one of the other deals with more co-operation from Comrie.

The second option is that Anaheim really wants Comrie and will now come back to the table ready to give up what is considered more of the market value for a player of Comrie's ability and age. Basically Lowe manages to bring back the market value of his player.

Basically he isn't using the money as a deal maker but as a deal breaker so he can move on to other offers that makes more sense for the club.
i don't know if this has been said yet or not (there are a lot of threads to read) but this is basically a contractual argument between two corporations. Mike Comrie Incorporated (MCI) signed a contract with an NHL team governed by the rules of the CBA. The gist of that contract is very simple. In return for giving up certain freedoms of movement we will make you quite rich. This is the essence of the CBA. In contract law this would be the way that it would be stated in the opening remarks of a court case.

There seems to be a presumption that l'il Mikey Incorporated is not under contract but that is not the case. By signing the first contract he assigned the rights of his labour to the Edmonton Oilers Incorporated until the age of 31. It is like a mortgage. The usual term of the contract there is 20 years even if you must renegotiate the rate every 6 months or 5 years. The contract extends beyond the terms of the payment agreement.

EOI have lived up to their end of the agreement. They have made MCI very rich. MCI has indicated that he does not wish to live up to his part (giving up his freedom to work wherever he chooses.) It is black letter law as they say. The Oilers are the agreived party and have every right to ask for compensation from the defaulting party. That is it. There is no extortion, there is no black hat (except on MCI's head for breaking the terms of the agreement) and the corporation that broke the deal is being asked to compensate for his wishing to back out of his contract. Those who are claiming to have lost all respect for Lowe etc. have apparently never entered into a contract. This is not some multinational trying to break a union member who wants $12.00 an hour so he can feed his family. This is a disagreement between two corporations (COmrie is a contractor to the Oilers and I will bet dollars to donuts his paycheque has the word 'corporation' on it) and the Oilers are clearly the wronged party. I honestly don't understand why there would be any sympathy for Comrie in this matter. He had legal advice that cost more than my annual salary advising him before he signed the contract and knew exactly what he was doing. The Oilers did what they said and Mike has not. And I would love to hear what people would say if the situation were reversed. If Detroit phoned Cujo and told him they had changed their mind and that they weren't going to continue to make him rich (their implicit promise) what would people think??

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12-11-2003, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
one of the best posters on oilfans (sunshines dad) had another angle on this: in addition to clearing things up, this could also be a stall tactic on lowe's part. It could be that murray is pushing for a deal right now and lowe is trying to up the ante that other teams might offer before committing to it. It may be working as there is supposed to be renewed interest from 6 teams.
This makes all kinds of sense, especially when looking at the proposed deal...

Why would the Oil be in any hurry to add a junior player and a pick??

They don't help us at all until next year, while adding Comrie to the Ducks would only strengthen a conference rival.

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12-11-2003, 01:48 PM
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Thanks to all who posted in this thread!

Sometimes a fella' just needs a boost.

This whole Comrie fiasco has been just eating at me since yesterday...at first it was disbelief, then it was that same sick feeling in my stomach that coincided with the Gretzky sale, the Weight trade, etc...

Sometimes the silver lining is there; its just a bit tarnished.

I hate the money demand...it lacks class. But I'd have hated Perry and a first even more. So if KLowe needs to get dirty to get something done, then so be it. At least he's painfully aware of the backlash that awaits a prospect and pick trade while the Oilers are finding all new ways to define the concept of stink.

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12-11-2003, 01:56 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
i don't know if this has been said yet or not (there are a lot of threads to read) but this is basically a contractual argument between two corporations. Mike Comrie Incorporated (MCI) signed a contract with an NHL team governed by the rules of the CBA. The gist of that contract is very simple. In return for giving up certain freedoms of movement we will make you quite rich. This is the essence of the CBA. In contract law this would be the way that it would be stated in the opening remarks of a court case.

There seems to be a presumption that l'il Mikey Incorporated is not under contract but that is not the case. By signing the first contract he assigned the rights of his labour to the Edmonton Oilers Incorporated until the age of 31. It is like a mortgage. The usual term of the contract there is 20 years even if you must renegotiate the rate every 6 months or 5 years. The contract extends beyond the terms of the payment agreement.

EOI have lived up to their end of the agreement. They have made MCI very rich. MCI has indicated that he does not wish to live up to his part (giving up his freedom to work wherever he chooses.) It is black letter law as they say. The Oilers are the agreived party and have every right to ask for compensation from the defaulting party. That is it. There is no extortion, there is no black hat (except on MCI's head for breaking the terms of the agreement) and the corporation that broke the deal is being asked to compensate for his wishing to back out of his contract. Those who are claiming to have lost all respect for Lowe etc. have apparently never entered into a contract. This is not some multinational trying to break a union member who wants $12.00 an hour so he can feed his family. This is a disagreement between two corporations (COmrie is a contractor to the Oilers and I will bet dollars to donuts his paycheque has the word 'corporation' on it) and the Oilers are clearly the wronged party. I honestly don't understand why there would be any sympathy for Comrie in this matter. He had legal advice that cost more than my annual salary advising him before he signed the contract and knew exactly what he was doing. The Oilers did what they said and Mike has not. And I would love to hear what people would say if the situation were reversed. If Detroit phoned Cujo and told him they had changed their mind and that they weren't going to continue to make him rich (their implicit promise) what would people think??
Great points - I just started a new thread on these very same points called "player responsibilities" - Lowe may have just started somehting really important yesterday in terms of the relationship between the teams and players. Please jump into the thread on this specific issue (so many going around - help from the mods would be appreciated)

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12-11-2003, 02:16 PM
  #14
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Why Thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
one of the best posters on oilfans (sunshines dad) had another angle on this: in addition to clearing things up, this could also be a stall tactic on lowe's part. It could be that murray is pushing for a deal right now and lowe is trying to up the ante that other teams might offer before committing to it. It may be working as there is supposed to be renewed interest from 6 teams.

That is nice of you to say. I was surprised that I didn't get any responses on Oilfans to that actually.

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12-11-2003, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil
i don't know if this has been said yet or not (there are a lot of threads to read) but this is basically a contractual argument between two corporations. Mike Comrie Incorporated (MCI) signed a contract with an NHL team governed by the rules of the CBA. The gist of that contract is very simple. In return for giving up certain freedoms of movement we will make you quite rich. This is the essence of the CBA. In contract law this would be the way that it would be stated in the opening remarks of a court case.

There seems to be a presumption that l'il Mikey Incorporated is not under contract but that is not the case. By signing the first contract he assigned the rights of his labour to the Edmonton Oilers Incorporated until the age of 31. It is like a mortgage. The usual term of the contract there is 20 years even if you must renegotiate the rate every 6 months or 5 years. The contract extends beyond the terms of the payment agreement.

EOI have lived up to their end of the agreement. They have made MCI very rich. MCI has indicated that he does not wish to live up to his part (giving up his freedom to work wherever he chooses.) It is black letter law as they say. The Oilers are the agreived party and have every right to ask for compensation from the defaulting party. That is it. There is no extortion, there is no black hat (except on MCI's head for breaking the terms of the agreement) and the corporation that broke the deal is being asked to compensate for his wishing to back out of his contract. Those who are claiming to have lost all respect for Lowe etc. have apparently never entered into a contract. This is not some multinational trying to break a union member who wants $12.00 an hour so he can feed his family. This is a disagreement between two corporations (COmrie is a contractor to the Oilers and I will bet dollars to donuts his paycheque has the word 'corporation' on it) and the Oilers are clearly the wronged party. I honestly don't understand why there would be any sympathy for Comrie in this matter. He had legal advice that cost more than my annual salary advising him before he signed the contract and knew exactly what he was doing. The Oilers did what they said and Mike has not. And I would love to hear what people would say if the situation were reversed. If Detroit phoned Cujo and told him they had changed their mind and that they weren't going to continue to make him rich (their implicit promise) what would people think??

This should be clipped and pasted everywhere. Its basic and complicated contract law brought down to Laymans terms which frames this situation perfectly. GO forth..........spread the word.....

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Old
12-11-2003, 09:52 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
This should be clipped and pasted everywhere. Its basic and complicated contract law brought down to Laymans terms which frames this situation perfectly. GO forth..........spread the word.....
Thanks. I finally just had enough with the Lowe bashing.

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12-12-2003, 04:24 AM
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One thing that I realized is that Lowe wants to help this team now and won't settle for just prospects. Again, I don't agree with asking for cash, but I don't blame Lowe for wanting to get FMV for Comrie. Hopefully, this situation will show Murray and Winter and Comrie that the Oilers won't in any way take less than what they are entitled to. I think Dan Barnes made a simple quote in one of his columns saying that the Ducks are getting what they want, Comrie's going to the team he wants and only the Oilers are getting shafted. At first I wanted the Oilers to trade Comrie quickly, but now after seeing the Ducks' offer for prospects only, the Oilers might as well wait for the draft and do a similar offer then.

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