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Tb/Buff/NYI proposal

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Old
12-11-2003, 06:40 AM
  #1
disles1
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Tb/Buff/NYI proposal

TB gets Hamrlik--gives up Svitov
Buff gets Svitov, Parrish, Papineau--gives up Satan, Mckee
Isles gets Satan, Mckee--gives up Hamrlik, Parrish, Papineau

Fair??
Thoughts?

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12-11-2003, 06:56 AM
  #2
WhoIsJimBob
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Personally, I think the Isles get hosed in the deal.

The deal may not work for the Sabres financially depending on the bonus structure in Svitov's contract.

And, Feaster doesn't seem to be keen on trading Svitov.

But, I like the deal from the Sabres perspective.

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12-11-2003, 07:25 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Personally, I think the Isles get hosed in the deal.

The deal may not work for the Sabres financially depending on the bonus structure in Svitov's contract.

And, Feaster doesn't seem to be keen on trading Svitov.

But, I like the deal from the Sabres perspective.

There is no way the Isles would take on Satan's contract.

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12-11-2003, 07:40 AM
  #4
disles1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
There is no way the Isles would take on Satan's contract.
This deal saves money for the isles--and with Hammer, he might make 4.5 mill next year while Satan will make about 5.25 mill. The isles could EASILY afford Satans contract if this deal were made. They would also get the winger Yashin has been craving for 2 years now and make them a better team.

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12-11-2003, 07:48 AM
  #5
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a move like that certainly gives the isles the elements they've been missing. mckee is grittier than hamrlik and satan's accomplishments speak for themselves (despite the fact he is having a subpar year).

so, will wang put forth the bucks to make this happen? well, let's just say he hasn't yet and probably won't. very unfortunate for isles fans, especially when considering he was willing to pay almost $300M for the new jersey nets.

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12-11-2003, 09:28 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
This deal saves money for the isles--and with Hammer, he might make 4.5 mill next year while Satan will make about 5.25 mill. The isles could EASILY afford Satans contract if this deal were made. They would also get the winger Yashin has been craving for 2 years now and make them a better team.

Satan is making 5 million right now. Hamrlik is making 3.6 million. Mckee also has a decent contract (2 years at 3.9 million). That deal adds salary to the Isles in the short term and also opens them up to some financial risk. If Satan or Mckee get hurt at some point during this year, the Isles are on the hook for their contracts during the lockout. Hamrlik and Parrish, on the other hand, are only under contract until this sumer. And, the Isles, like every other team in the NHL, wants to have as few players as possible with contracts going into the CBA negotiations.

If the Isles deal Hamrlik, they will be looking to save a few million in the short term, not add $. They certainly won't be taking on a contract of Satan's size at any point. If anything, the Isles desperately want to get away from those huge contracts.

The chance that the Isles would be willing to deal for Satan is less than zero, and I even think Mckee's contract would preclude much interest.

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12-11-2003, 09:54 AM
  #7
disles1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Satan is making 5 million right now. Hamrlik is making 3.6 million. Mckee also has a decent contract (2 years at 3.9 million). That deal adds salary to the Isles in the short term and also opens them up to some financial risk. If Satan or Mckee get hurt at some point during this year, the Isles are on the hook for their contracts during the lockout. Hamrlik and Parrish, on the other hand, are only under contract until this sumer. And, the Isles, like every other team in the NHL, wants to have as few players as possible with contracts going into the CBA negotiations.

If the Isles deal Hamrlik, they will be looking to save a few million in the short term, not add $. They certainly won't be taking on a contract of Satan's size at any point. If anything, the Isles desperately want to get away from those huge contracts.

The chance that the Isles would be willing to deal for Satan is less than zero, and I even think Mckee's contract would preclude much interest.
Totally disagree Darth--we "take on" 150 k in this deal:
Satan 4.75, Mckee 1.7 = 6.45
Hammer 3.6, Parrish 2.3, Papp 400k= 6.3
BIG DEAL!!!
Also Satans contract of 5.25 ( you make it seem like he has Yashins Contract--cmon) is easily affordable.
I would much rather have a reasonable contract then be in the isles situation of because of the CBA--the free agent age will come down and because there probably be no cap but a fee if you go over a certain amt ala baseball--the isles will then will have, if the age goes to 28 or 29, Hammer,Aucoin etc etc big problems as their salaries will go up and we will watch our team go to the highest bidder. Just my opinion

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12-11-2003, 09:59 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Totally disagree Darth--we "take on" 150 k in this deal:
Satan 4.75, Mckee 1.7 = 6.45
Hammer 3.6, Parrish 2.3, Papp 400k= 6.3
BIG DEAL!!!
Also Satans contract of 5.25 ( you make it seem like he has Yashins Contract--cmon) is easily affordable.
I would much rather have a reasonable contract then be in the isles situation of because of the CBA--the free agent age will come down and because there probably be no cap but a fee if you go over a certain amt ala baseball--the isles will then will have, if the age goes to 28 or 29, Hammer,Aucoin etc etc big problems as their salaries will go up and we will watch our team go to the highest bidder. Just my opinion

The Isles are trying to cut salary, not add it. If they deal Hamrlik, it will be in an attempt to cut a few million from the payroll. They're not going to add a larger multi-year deal like Satan's. I don't even seem them adding Mckee's contract, to be frank.

I honestly think a Hamrlik for Svitov deal is far more realistic.

I appreciate your perspective, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Isles to deal for any highly paid players - Satan or otherwise.

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12-11-2003, 09:59 AM
  #9
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Well... if Parrish really has been as bad as Isles fans say he's been this year, then maybe this isn't a bad deal.
Satan't always been a pretty reliable scorer.
I think McKee's a bit overrated as a defenseman, and he's not Hamrlik, so I think maybe the Isles defense would hurt from this trade.
But as always, I think I'm confused about the Isles intentions. Do finances matter, and if a deal like this were to go down, what would the Isles be expecting to accomplish?

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12-11-2003, 10:06 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The Isles are trying to cut salary, not add it. If they deal Hamrlik, it will be in an attempt to cut a few million from the payroll. They're not going to add a larger multi-year deal like Satan's. I don't even seem them adding Mckee's contract, to be frank.

I honestly think a Hamrlik for Svitov deal is far more realistic.

I appreciate your perspective, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Isles to deal for any highly paid players - Satan or otherwise.
The isles ALREADY cut some payroll--1.6 (Weimer). You do not know or anyone else for that matter if Wang wants to cut more. Especially since he now has all is attension on the isles--after letting go of the NETS. Satan has ONE year left on his contract--not 10. I think you are wrong in saying the isles will cut more $--but then again who knows??

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12-11-2003, 10:12 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianBurke
Well... if Parrish really has been as bad as Isles fans say he's been this year, then maybe this isn't a bad deal.
Satan't always been a pretty reliable scorer.
I think McKee's a bit overrated as a defenseman, and he's not Hamrlik, so I think maybe the Isles defense would hurt from this trade.
But as always, I think I'm confused about the Isles intentions. Do finances matter, and if a deal like this were to go down, what would the Isles be expecting to accomplish?
This deal for the isles is simple--if we go by the fact that the isles will not cut payroll and also not add much to it (my opinion). In this deal we "add" 150 k in payroll BIG DEAL--we Finally get a scoring winger for Yash and we get a physical dman in Mckee to clear the crease. Granted Mckee is not Hammer but you have to give to get!!!

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12-11-2003, 10:27 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
This deal for the isles is simple--if we go by the fact that the isles will not cut payroll and also not add much to it (my opinion). In this deal we "add" 150 k in payroll BIG DEAL--we Finally get a scoring winger for Yash and we get a physical dman in Mckee to clear the crease. Granted Mckee is not Hammer but you have to give to get!!!

We'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think that if Darcy Reiger was to offer the Isles Satan for a third round pick, the Isles would say no. They're simply not going to take on any high salaried players, even if the delete a Peca or Hamrlik in the deal.

Personally, I think Satan's trade value is close to nil right now, with a 2 year contract and his lack of production. I think Hamrliks is only slightly higher, simply because he has a one year deal, makes less $, and is a defensemen. But, I don't think either guy is going to return fair value at this point.

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12-11-2003, 10:33 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
We'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think that if Darcy Reiger was to offer the Isles Satan for a third round pick, the Isles would say no. They're simply not going to take on any high salaried players, even if the delete a Peca or Hamrlik in the deal.

Personally, I think Satan's trade value is close to nil right now, with a 2 year contract and his lack of production. I think Hamrliks is only slightly higher, simply because he has a one year deal, makes less $, and is a defensemen. But, I don't think either guy is going to return fair value at this point.
Darth I would agree with you IF Satan had 3-6 years left on his contract but he has one! He would be the second best player on the team and should be paid as such. He also would be a great asset to Yash. I think this helps all three teams

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12-11-2003, 10:47 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Darth I would agree with you IF Satan had 3-6 years left on his contract but he has one! He would be the second best player on the team and should be paid as such. He also would be a great asset to Yash. I think this helps all three teams

None of this changes the $ realities in the situation. The Isles won't be trading for any 5 million players.

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12-11-2003, 11:12 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
None of this changes the $ realities in the situation. The Isles won't be trading for any 5 million players.
WHY??? If we are trading away 5 mill in contracts. Are you saying you dont like the deal because if that is the case fine but to say we wont be trading for any 5 million dollar players is just not the case --provided we trade away the same. This is not a 5 mill free agent we are picking up

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12-11-2003, 11:16 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
WHY??? If we are trading away 5 mill in contracts. Are you saying you dont like the deal because if that is the case fine but to say we wont be trading for any 5 million dollar players is just not the case --provided we trade away the same. This is not a 5 mill free agent we are picking up

I don't agree.

The problem the Isles have is that they have several players with fat contract and they've discovered that those players are very hard to move for fair value. They seem to want to unload one or two of those guys for younger, cheaper equivalents. At least for the short-term, the chances of the Isles bringing in more high paid players, even if they delete other big contracts, is less than zero.

Here is my bold statement: If Satan was on waivers, and the Isles found a taker for Hamrlik elsewhere, they would still say no to Satan. I'm explicitly saying that is a player the Isles would not be interested in at any costs.

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12-11-2003, 11:34 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't agree.

The problem the Isles have is that they have several players with fat contract and they've discovered that those players are very hard to move for fair value. They seem to want to unload one or two of those guys for younger, cheaper equivalents. At least for the short-term, the chances of the Isles bringing in more high paid players, even if they delete other big contracts, is less than zero.

Here is my bold statement: If Satan was on waivers, and the Isles found a taker for Hamrlik elsewhere, they would still say no to Satan. I'm explicitly saying that is a player the Isles would not be interested in at any costs.
WOW!! that is all I can say. We will have to disagree!! I think Wang is looking to IMPROVE the team and provided we stay at this reasonable payroll 40 mil--he will do what it takes to improve the team. I would not be shocked if at the deadline the isles added a little payroll- provided we were in the hunt. Two totally different views of the same team--but I believe that if Wang thought he could improve the team for little to no extra cost--he would do it in a heartbeat! You seem to believe that the isles will sell their assets to reduce payroll and become the isles of the mid to late 90's. Fans would not stand for this and Wang knows it. WOW!!

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12-11-2003, 12:27 PM
  #18
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Good thread.

It points to one thing: It really stinks following a team who's business strategy is up for conjecture! Especially pre-CBA.

Namely, are the Isles in full salary dump mode, are they flexible based upon how the team does over the next couple of months, etc.? I tend to side with Darth and those of the "fiscal conservative" mindset when it comes to guessing what's inside Wang's brain. ("Wang's brain"? That's too easy a set-up line. :p ) That said, it may also be a mistake to assume that the Isles are going to look to shed salaries at all costs (pardon the pun), or even to assume that the team UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES would add salary. Currently, no way they will, I'm guessing. But, hypothetically, if NYI were to go on a good run from now through March, might Wang's perspective not change?

***

Regardless of salary, I'm not so certain Satan is the answer for Yashin. (Yet another set-up line. ) Just my opinion.


Last edited by Trottier: 12-11-2003 at 12:39 PM.
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12-11-2003, 12:42 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Good thread.

It points to one thing: It really stinks following a team who's business strategy is up for conjecture! Especially pre-CBA.

Namely, are the Isles in full salary dump mode, are they flexible based upon how the team does over the next couple of months, etc.? I tend to side with Darth and those of the "fiscal conservative" mindset when it comes to guessing what's inside Wang's brain. ("Wang's brain"? That's two easy a set-up line. :p ) That said, it may also be a mistake to assume that the Isles are going to look to shed salaries at all costs (pardon the pun), or even to assume that the team UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES would add salary. Currently, no way, I'm guessing. But, hypothetically, if NYI were to go on a good run from now through March, might not Wang's perspective change?

***

Regardless of salary, I'm not so certain Satan is the answer for Yashin. (Yet another set-up line. ) Just my opinion.
I'm not saying Wang is not watching the bottom line-he is- but he would in my opinion try and improve the team.
Trots- Satan looks ALOT better than Czer or Kvasha.
One buffalo fan liked the trade any TB bolt fans think its fair??

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12-11-2003, 12:53 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Trots- Satan looks ALOT better than Czer or Kvasha.
Disles1: no disagreement there. Heck, I bet you and Tiki might look a lot better flanking Yashin at this point. :p

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12-11-2003, 12:57 PM
  #21
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If you've been reading the other TB-Isles/Hamrlik threads, you know I think Svitov for Hamrlik is fair. Neither teams' fanbase likes it so it's at least close to fair value.

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12-11-2003, 01:01 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Disles1: no disagreement there. Heck, I bet you and Tiki might look a lot better flanking Yashin at this point. :p
Well I can't skate but I'm 6'5 so maybe I can stand in front of the net and get in the goalies way

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12-11-2003, 01:03 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolthed
If you've been reading the other TB-Isles/Hamrlik threads, you know I think Svitov for Hamrlik is fair. Neither teams' fanbase likes it so it's at least close to fair value.

No offense meant, but that is pretty weak logic. It could well be the case that neither team's fanbase likes the deal because it is a deal that hurts both teams. Isles don't need another project up front, and the Bolts may not be well-served by taking on an expensive player. Its a bad deal for both sides, and hence, nobody likes it and it won't happen.

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12-11-2003, 01:35 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
No offense meant, but that is pretty weak logic. It could well be the case that neither team's fanbase likes the deal because it is a deal that hurts both teams. Isles don't need another project up front, and the Bolts may not be well-served by taking on an expensive player. Its a bad deal for both sides, and hence, nobody likes it and it won't happen.
You misunderstood me. Neither team's fans like it because they want more for their player. My logic is sound, pal.

And I disagree, Darth. This trade would help both teams IMO. It's a classic prospect-for-proven deal. From Tampa's perspective, Feaster is hesitant to trade Svitov at all AND hesitant to take on the salary. I happen to think Hamrlik is worth all of that, but I am clearly in the minority of TB fans in this position.

You might not know a whole lot about Svitov, maybe seen a couple of games and maybe heard the negative stuff that surfaced in the media recently. I can tell you he is a fine talent - you just don't often see instincts and awareness like he displayed last season as a 19-year-old.

BTW, first you say no offense and then you say something offensive. WTF is that? There are other ways to question someone's logic than to call it weak. Whatever. I'm not really this sensitive, just giving you sheet.

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12-11-2003, 02:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolthed
You misunderstood me. Neither team's fans like it because they want more for their player. My logic is sound, pal.

And I disagree, Darth. This trade would help both teams IMO. It's a classic prospect-for-proven deal. From Tampa's perspective, Feaster is hesitant to trade Svitov at all AND hesitant to take on the salary. I happen to think Hamrlik is worth all of that, but I am clearly in the minority of TB fans in this position.

You might not know a whole lot about Svitov, maybe seen a couple of games and maybe heard the negative stuff that surfaced in the media recently. I can tell you he is a fine talent - you just don't often see instincts and awareness like he displayed last season as a 19-year-old.

BTW, first you say no offense and then you say something offensive. WTF is that? There are other ways to question someone's logic than to call it weak. Whatever. I'm not really this sensitive, just giving you sheet.

C'mon, my friend. I called your logic weak and, IMO, it was in that particular situation. I've always found that argument (which is seen here often) that if fans from both teams dislike it, it must be fair to be limited. Your explanation may be correct, but you are making a significant logical leap to say the least. I was certainly not trying to give you the flame. In any case, I apologize if I came across harsh. That was not my intent.

And, btw, I'm not arguing that Svitov isn't a very talented kid. I'm just saying he has a lot of work to do. The Isles have had enough of that sort of player in the past. Islander fans don't want Svitov because he is exactly what we don't need.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 12-11-2003 at 02:15 PM.
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