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Old
02-27-2007, 07:12 PM
  #26
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Can anybody tell us panther fans what we should be expecting from Matthias?

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02-27-2007, 07:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
Can anybody tell us panther fans what we should be expecting from Matthias?
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For what it's worth, every time I hear a scout talk about Shawn Matthias I envision Jason Chimera.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/...l-blue_jackets

The thing about Matthias is he was part of a draft crop that has six potential signings by the June 1, 2008, deadline (Emmerton, Matthias, Axelsson, Larsson, Mursak and Pyett).

All of them are having great post-draft seasons. Emmerton and Mursak are locks and Axelsson and Larsson have excellent shots. Pyett might get a look too. That means there probably won't be enough contracts to go around by the 2008 deadline and that made Matthias expendable.

Also, Matthias is fifth on the junior depth chart behind Kindl, Emmerton, Mursak and Helm, so he's not a top-flight guy.

Matthew Wuest
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02-27-2007, 07:18 PM
  #28
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so Matthias should be a good addition to the team?

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02-27-2007, 07:28 PM
  #29
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I am happy with this.

We needed a big winger who could score and we got one. And we got him on the cheap unless he proves himself. A good deal.

Bertuzzi was the only one of Tkachuk/Guerin/Bertuzzi who I wanted and who can offer Detroit what it needs.

And Calder is a good player who was on bad teams. We just got a whole lot deeper on the flanks for the post season.

My only 'complaint' is why didn't Holland go out and get Laraque for a 5th.

But our main problem, the wings was addressed by trades.

Good job Holland.

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02-27-2007, 07:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
so Matthias should be a good addition to the team?
A big mobile checking liner that might have a touch of offense, but I wouldn't expect it to transfer. Maltby was a 50 goal scorer in Juniors... However he doesn't seem to have a nasty side whatsoever. I think he was up for Most Gentlemanly player in the OHL last year? So he's big and strong, but not very aggressive/assertive.

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02-27-2007, 07:38 PM
  #31
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I liked Bertuzzi best out of the bunch that was available. He's by far the biggest dude in the group, but more importantly he plays like a big man. When we all said we need grit, I think we got the grittiest guy of the bunch, but one who also happens to have quite a bit of skill. There's that bit of risk with the injury he has, but if he had stayed healthy? No way we even get close to dealing for him-- let alone acquiring him.

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02-27-2007, 07:40 PM
  #32
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Bertuzzi is an awesome player when he is healthy. Great pick up by your GM.

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02-27-2007, 07:41 PM
  #33
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This is exactly what I wanted, great move by Holland.

High risk/high reward move that the Wings desperately needed. There is now hope for the playoffs, the team has changed and has a new element, atleast potentially.
Even if Bert's health doesn't pan out, this move didn't hurt the future of the club. With all the veterans in Detroit's lockerrooom, I have no doubt they will take the pressure off Bert and he'll be able to fit in very well.

I don't think you can question the fact the Wings now have a much better chance at doing something in the playoffs, than they did two days ago. And what Holland parted with was very minimal.

Bert interview after trade:
http://broadband.tsn.ca/tsn/?id=348&vid=4802

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02-27-2007, 07:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
A big mobile checking liner that might have a touch of offense, but I wouldn't expect it to transfer. Maltby was a 50 goal scorer in Juniors... However he doesn't seem to have a nasty side whatsoever. I think he was up for Most Gentlemanly player in the OHL last year? So he's big and strong, but not very aggressive/assertive.
Good assesment.

Pans out to be a big, smart, checking line player. Unfortunately he lacks the mean streak.

As far as addition to the team? If he pans out, I'd say he's still 4 years away. He'll be a 19 year old junior next year and most checkers will get atleast 2 years of grooming in the AHL.

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02-27-2007, 10:55 PM
  #35
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I think Bertuzzi will be a great fit with the Red Wings. It's going to be weird seeing him in that uniform.
Dude, if you thinks that's gonna be weird, can you even even picture Ryan Smyth wearing an #94 Islander sweater? Man, time have changed, more and more future and present elite players will end up switching teams with the Salary cap world and it's just tough as hell to accept right now as an oiler fan, That's why I got that much more respect for player likes Stevie Y, Burnaby Joe Sakic, and Mario among others, it might not be that hard on the outside looking in from a fans perspective, for a player to spend their entire career with one organization, it takes alot from both sides of negotiations etc. I do think Bertuzzi will help your club though, a big if, but if he does regain his form of 2002/2003 he can become a dominant force, for Ken Holland the reward far out weighs the risk.

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02-27-2007, 11:03 PM
  #36
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this is fantastic and i love it

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02-27-2007, 11:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MotownMadman View Post
Like others have said, I have hesitencies based on the Moore incident.

Thinking about it solely on hockey performance, my one concern is whether we gave up Matthias for another Uwe Krupp.

But like others have said, the cost is reasonable considering what the Sharks paid for Guerin and the Thrashers have paid for, well, all the players they've required.
Yeah, he did have that whole Moore incident. But you're a Wings fan aren't you? You've seen him play a lot. Did you ever think he was really a dirty player before that incident? He plays tough and hard, that's for sure, but he was never and is not a dirty player, at least in my opinion. He had that one incident (and had Moore not broken his neck it wouldn't have been a big deal--I've seen quite a few similar sucker punches to the back of the head from other players), but that's about it. I'ts a big "it", but he's not one of those guys that is a nasty player like Avery, Marchment or Hatcher. You really don't have to worry about him doing anything like that again.

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02-27-2007, 11:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
so Matthias should be a good addition to the team?
He's a ways off. Think 2009, maybe. But if all goes well, a quality 3rd line center, MAYBE a good 2nd line banger if he maxes out. I like Matthias, and I think he brought an element that the Wings' organization is short on. But this deal was a gimme. I don't like Bert at all, but look at what other teams paid, and what they got for their money.

This boils down to trading Matthias for Bertuzzi, straight up. In a separate deal, the Wings deal a draft pick to the Panthers - if they do well in the playoffs, the pick gets earlier in the draft. If not, it's later. And if all goes well and they decide to bring him back, and this is assuming his health checks out as well, then the Wings pay a 2nd rounder for a guy who had 71 points last season, and it was a really down year for him.

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02-28-2007, 12:14 AM
  #39
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Well if you guys have forgotten how good he is - watch some tapes of that 2002 first round playoff series, or maybe ask Lidstrom and Cheli who the hardest players to play against in the league are.

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02-28-2007, 12:33 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Bertuzzi has always been one of those guys that you hate when he is on the other team.
You've got a lot to learn.

Vancouver fans forgave him for his bonehead move on Moore. It was a one-time thing, and he likely won't do anything like that again. (Still think he should've been suspended for longer though. The lockout doesn't count.)

What we didn't forgive him for was being inconsistent, moody, and not a team player.

Funny thing about Bertuzzi, especially considering he'll be known forever for the Moore hit. I don't think he really likes to play physical. He's like a finesse guy trapped in this big brutish body. Everybody always wants him to knock people around, but I really don't think his heart's in it. Not all the time, anyway. He has to be in the right mood, and he usually isn't.

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02-28-2007, 12:42 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HaveOpinion View Post
You've got a lot to learn.

Vancouver fans forgave him for his bonehead move on Moore. It was a one-time thing, and he likely won't do anything like that again. (Still think he should've been suspended for longer though. The lockout doesn't count.)

What we didn't forgive him for was being inconsistent, moody, and not a team player.

Funny thing about Bertuzzi, especially considering he'll be known forever for the Moore hit. I don't think he really likes to play physical. He's like a finesse guy trapped in this big brutish body. Everybody always wants him to knock people around, but I really don't think his heart's in it. Not all the time, anyway. He has to be in the right mood, and he usually isn't.
That still makes him twice as physical a player as 90% of the current Wings lineup.

He'll be playing next to Lang. Lang can make anyone look like they're busting their ass, just by juxtaposition.

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02-28-2007, 12:47 AM
  #42
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moody, highly skilled player with possible lockerroom conflicts...where have we seen this before?

I love the trade and, as long as he plays hard, everything else will fall into place.

and to CB420, yeah, it is going to seem very weird seeing Smyth in a jersey other than the Oilers. Hope he goes back in the summer. Or comes to Detroit

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02-28-2007, 12:48 AM
  #43
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what....kenny couldnt get the hanson brothers? ogie wasnt available? not even mccracken?????
with that one 10 minute phone call, ken holland just turned "my beloved detroit red wings" into......just "the detroit red wings".
in my 38 years as a red wings fan this organization has never embarassed me.....until now.

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02-28-2007, 01:05 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bones21212 View Post
what....kenny couldnt get the hanson brothers? ogie wasnt available? not even mccracken?????
with that one 10 minute phone call, ken holland just turned "my beloved detroit red wings" into......just "the detroit red wings".
in my 38 years as a red wings fan this organization has never embarassed me.....until now.
This is the same organization that brought in Wendel Clark, Chris Chelios, and Derian Hatcher. This is not a new development.

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02-28-2007, 01:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by bones21212 View Post
what....kenny couldnt get the hanson brothers? ogie wasnt available? not even mccracken?????
with that one 10 minute phone call, ken holland just turned "my beloved detroit red wings" into......just "the detroit red wings".
in my 38 years as a red wings fan this organization has never embarassed me.....until now.
Oh, God...

Grow up. Bertuzzi gives the Wings a better chance to win. Apparently you're more concerned with Bert's past than the team's present. I don't know if you should be a Wings fan anyway.

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02-28-2007, 01:18 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Holland!

I love it.
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Originally Posted by ca5150
How about getting the young guys some Stanley Cup Finals experience instead of 5 games and out.

We won't have any young guys to get experience if we're going out to try and win now.


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I love how everyone on here is suddenly in charge of player development and salary cap experts. I want to see my team win now AND 5 years from now. So basically you are willing to conceed the playoffs this year for a couple of draft picks that may or may not turn into something.

By trading aways picks and prospects every season trying to "go for it" you won't have the talent to go for it now and 5 years from now.



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Zetterberg and Datsyuk were not top picks, Joe Murphy was however so I'm willing to put my belief in the scouts and give away the occasional bottom first rounder which is where the Wings usually draft anyway, it's not like they would be giving up the first overall pick, for the chance to win now.

The Wings pull out the gems, but how many of those come every year? Every 5 years? 10?



Funny how you change your tune when he goes out and does exactly what I was saying he should do and the opposite of what you were saying he should do....

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02-28-2007, 01:51 AM
  #47
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Oh, God...

Grow up. Bertuzzi gives the Wings a better chance to win. Apparently you're more concerned with Bert's past than the team's present. I don't know if you should be a Wings fan anyway.
Oh does he now? The last I saw he's played a grand total of 7 games this year. He's still not 100% and there's absolutely no one who can say how much it'll take until he gets his game back on, if he ever will. Combine that with the numerous reports of him being a locker room cancer, the stunt he pulled with Moore, his lack of dedication for defence... The list goes on and on.

I agree that this trade has the potential to become the best trade whole year, but at the same time it has the potential to sink the Wings in the first round yet again. The only part of this trade that I'm happy about is that we didn't give up pretty much anything for him. I seriously doubt Matthias ever had any real chance of breaking into the Wings lineup. Atleast not with the amount of centers we already have.

Combine that with the trade for the underachiever in Calder, that also has the potential for both a disaster and for a great comeback, and things aren't looking too bright with not only one but two big questionmarks.

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02-28-2007, 01:56 AM
  #48
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Oh does he now? The last I saw he's played a grand total of 7 games this year. He's still not 100% and there's absolutely no one who can say how much it'll take until he gets his game back on, if he ever will. Combine that with the numerous reports of him being a locker room cancer, the stunt he pulled with Moore, his lack of dedication for defence... The list goes on and on.

I agree that this trade has the potential to become the best trade whole year, but at the same time it has the potential to sink the Wings in the first round yet again. The only part of this trade that I'm happy about is that we didn't give up pretty much anything for him. I seriously doubt Matthias ever had any real chance of breaking into the Wings lineup. Atleast not with the amount of centers we already have.

Combine that with the trade for the underachiever in Calder, that also has the potential for both a disaster and for a great comeback, and things aren't looking too bright with not only one but two big questionmarks.
The Wings just traded Jason Williams for Todd Bertuzzi and Kyle Calder, for this season. Things look 200% better for THIS year.

Add in the fact that they are only GUARANTEED to lose a 3rd and Shawn Mhattias for Bertuzzi, and you have a win-win situation.

Anybody who thinks these are bad moves is an idiot. Sorry, Borlag.

Remember Chris Chelios on Brian Propp way back in the day??? Very similar to the Steve Moore incident. Chelios was an ******* before he came here as well. People can change.

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02-28-2007, 02:00 AM
  #49
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I don't think them as a bad move, Detroit gave up very little of value for those trades. But at the same time I'm not ready to praise Holland for these trades just yet. What he did was a big gamble that has the potential to put us over the top, but at the same time it has the potential of another 1st round defeat.

As for Chelios, he's still an ass, but he's our ass and we love him for it

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02-28-2007, 02:19 AM
  #50
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I don't think them as a bad move, Detroit gave up very little of value for those trades. But at the same time I'm not ready to praise Holland for these trades just yet. What he did was a big gamble that has the potential to put us over the top, but at the same time it has the potential of another 1st round defeat.

As for Chelios, he's still an ass, but he's our ass and we love him for it

But he wasnt "our ass" until we embraced him. Bertuzzi and Chelios were both hated by Red Wings fans at one time. I just hope that fans give Bertuzzi the same slack that they have given Chelios. Obviously this will be much easier if Bertuzzi performs well.

You keep bringing up the risk that Holland took in these deals. What risk? He swapped Calder for Williams, which is an obvious win. And then he swapped Shawn Matthias and 1-2 conditional picks for Todd Bertuzzi. These are no brainer trades. The Bertuzzi move is one that had to be made. And judging by what other teams gave up for their playoff additions, I think the Wings made out pretty well.

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