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Old
02-28-2007, 06:43 PM
  #126
BTCG
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Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Pfft, where were all you people when the Moore incident went down?
We were here in the US...and the last time I checked...Vancouver was a Canadian team.

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Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Back then Todd was the devil, but now he is only partly responsible for the Moore thing? Back in the day, though, it was all Todd's evil plan.
Last time I checked, the guy who drives the getaway car is equally as guilty as the guy holding the gun in the bank...even in Canada, eh?

It's just like you guys to egg him on...and then when it turns tragic pretend that it was all him.

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02-28-2007, 06:47 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Wow. So during a conversation about hockey in which one guy questions your knowledge of Bertuzzi, you respond with

-Claiming Canadians are mentally inferior to Americans
-Canadians only enjoy a good life because of Americans
-One of Canada's famous inventions would never have occured had it not been because of the work of non-Canadians
-Canadians love the mob
-Because of Canadians love of the mob during prohibition, previously unheard things such as crime and drug use became rampant, thus Canadians had a huge hand in bringing these things to present day society



That was a wicked over-reaction, as well as some spotty spin-doctoring on your part. Maybe stick to talking about just hockey?
Try reading it again.

The other writer made the "smarter" claim. I simply agreed, and gave examples.

As to your history...it speaks for itself...and no one would hold you to it ...if you took responsibility.

But Canada has always been big at whining and pointing fingers...unless it points to themselves.

Spare us the feigned indignation.

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02-28-2007, 06:48 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
We were here in the US...and the last time I checked...Vancouver was a Canadian team.



Last time I checked, the guy who drives the getaway car is equally as guilty as the guy holding the gun in the bank...even in Canada, eh?

It's just like you guys to egg him on...and then when it turns tragic pretend that it was all him.

Are you actually this short-sighted? Do you often work in stereotypes? Why is everything a US vs Canada debate with you?

My comment was based on the fact that it's funny that people were often afraid to defend Bertuzzi, and that it was the "in thing" to blame Bertuzzi for the entire Moore incident. Yet now, people are actually having better debates about the whole thing.

At the time, I felt there were TONS of factors that went into this. Crawford had a hand in it, the media had a hand in it, and of course the hockey culture had a hand in it. It all set up a situation that could eventually turn tragic, like it did when Todd screwed up. So while it was Todd's fault, there were a lot of things that played into it.



Though I don't even know why I'm bother talking to you because you like to make such intelligent statements that it's "just like you guys".....Why do you feel the need to attack Canada and hand out the insults? Is it funny to use the word "eh?" at me?


Last edited by Kid_Roll: 02-28-2007 at 06:55 PM.
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Old
02-28-2007, 06:50 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Try reading it again.

The other writer made the "smarter" claim. I simply agreed, and gave examples.

As to your history...it speaks for itself...and no one would hold you to it ...if you took responsibility.

But Canada has always been big at whining and pointing fingers...unless it points to themselves.

Spare us the feigned indignation.

He used the word smarter in regards to knowing about Todd's past history and how he might affect the Wings.


You then went on a sterotype rant that had nothing to do with hockey.


Seriously, what if I came on here and you said you thought Yzerman was an awesome captain and I went into a rant about how Americans are fat, stupid, and sleep with their cousins. It wouldn't make much sense would it?


Though wait, did I have feigned indignation there? I sure hope not!

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02-28-2007, 06:51 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Roll View Post
Wow. So during a conversation about hockey in which one guy questions your knowledge of Bertuzzi, you respond with

-Claiming Canadians are mentally inferior to Americans
-Canadians only enjoy a good life because of Americans
-One of Canada's famous inventions would never have occured had it not been because of the work of non-Canadians
-Canadians love the mob
-Because of Canadians love of the mob during prohibition, previously unheard things such as crime and drug use became rampant, thus Canadians had a huge hand in bringing these things to present day society



That was a wicked over-reaction, as well as some spotty spin-doctoring on your part. Maybe stick to talking about just hockey?
I have to admit that I can't tell the two apart except for three things:
1. Canadians can spell whisky correctly
2. Canadians know the name of their Queen (even if some spit while saying it).
3. Canadians know that Rush is the best band in the world, ever.

Apart from that they're all "north americans",

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02-28-2007, 08:04 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Try reading it again.

The other writer made the "smarter" claim. I simply agreed, and gave examples.

As to your history...it speaks for itself...and no one would hold you to it ...if you took responsibility.

But Canada has always been big at whining and pointing fingers...unless it points to themselves.

Spare us the feigned indignation.
That's a little ironic.

Anyways, you're probably right. Without Canada, the world would be a much better place. It's a shame that Canadians such as Steve Yzerman, Gordie Howe and Terry Sawchuk ever set foot in Detroit, or outside of their own God forsaken country (if you can even call it a country). Damn free-loading Canadians.

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Old
02-28-2007, 08:46 PM
  #132
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That's a little ironic.

Anyways, you're probably right. Without Canada, the world would be a much better place. It's a shame that Canadians such as Steve Yzerman, Gordie Howe and Terry Sawchuk ever set foot in Detroit, or outside of their own God forsaken country (if you can even call it a country). Damn free-loading Canadians.

Hey, don't dump on the Detroit fans. He may be posting on the Wings board, but mostly he spends his time elsewhere. I think Detroit fans appreciate their Canadian neighbors a bit more than he does.

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Old
02-28-2007, 09:14 PM
  #133
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Smarter? As a group...I don't there's any question of that. Virtually every modern convienience you enjoy in Canada is there as a result of our hard work and innovation...from the car you drive...to the electricity that powers your lights, tv, radio, computers...even the phones that Canadian Alexander Graham Bell pioneered wouldn't have worked without the ground breaking work of Edison and Tesla.

Car - needs internal combustion engine. List of luminaries: Benz, Otto, Daimler, Diesel, Matteuci, and even earlier concepts all the way back to da Vinci. Lots of German, British, French, and Italian guys mostly. Ford did perfect mass production.

Electricity - Volta, Faraday, Ampere, Ohm (funny how stuff got named after the guys), and of course Edison (American) and Tesla (Serbian)

Radio - Tesla (Serbian guy) and Marconi (Italian guy). Also see Hughes, Hertz, and Popov.

TV - precursor discoveries by Smith, then Nipkow, and finally some fine work by Westinghouse and Bell labs.

Phones - sound waves, transmission methods, hmmm... sounds like a lot of acoustics and math-y type things... who gets credit for that?

Computers - before the integrated circuit and microprocessors or after? From mechanical calculating devices on up... Don't even know where to start. You need an understanding of physics, math, logic, electricity, and that's before you get to peripherals, storage devices, and on and on...

And all these guys probably used something called calculus (Newton, a Brit) and physics (Germans did a lot but then there were the Greeks, you know)... where do we draw the line?


Last edited by Fugu: 02-28-2007 at 09:38 PM.
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Old
02-28-2007, 09:20 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Ohm (funny how stuff got named after the guy)
He was in the resistance.

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Old
02-28-2007, 09:37 PM
  #135
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He was in the resistance.

Vive la résistance!

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Old
02-28-2007, 11:10 PM
  #136
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How great would it be if the Wings got the Nucks in the first round? What a series.

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Old
03-01-2007, 03:39 AM
  #137
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How great would it be if the Wings got the Nucks in the first round? What a series.
Indeed and then Bertuzzi knocks Naslund into the boards, like Chelios in 2002

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03-01-2007, 06:31 AM
  #138
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I said it when it happens and I still say it:

Bert wanted to stand up for his teammate. He slightly overworked for sure. It was a cheapshot, yes. He beat Moore from behind. BUT it was not like a "blind side hit" or stuff like that. Moore was aware of what Bert wanted and ran away like a cry baby. No one, not Bert, noone else, could foresee what would happen the moment Bert hit him. Had Moore not fallen absolutely strangely, it would have resulted in an ordinary 2-game ban or stuff like that. And every hockeyfan especially in North america would have rather blamed Moore of cowardy then Bert for anything. The incident was 10% cheapshot and 90% accident.

And as I said, I said so in 2004 already. It should be written in here somewhere ;o)

I am more then happy with the deal. I like Matthias, I had hopes he could lift his production to the next level and become a power forward for the wings himself. But after all the Wings have a lot of good to great prospects to sign the next two years. So he might have gone lost in a numbers game anyway. Seing that we might have given up NOTHING at all in the long run unless he seriously outplays Emmerton, D. Axelson, Mursak and co the next year. So there is NO risk at all. But you have the reward of one of the 10 best forwards in the game who fills a desperate team need as well, in his prime. And you only pay for it (and a reasonable price!!) when he delivers a great playoff performance or you see finals! How much more can you get???

It is like the Hasek signing: The Risk is close to zero. But the reward can be a Cup! Both are Conn Smythe Candidates for a discount price. The cap space for Bert would have been lost anyway, Hasek cost hardly anything and is payed for good playoffs only, basically. I think, a lot of people here should start to walk to Canossa where Holland is concernded. He is calm, yes, but from the Hasek move on until the Bert-deal he did a job that is hard to imagine doing better!

Mind you, guys, one year ago Bert brought you a Luongo, one of the hottest commodities in the NHL!

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03-01-2007, 08:11 AM
  #139
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I said it when it happens and I still say it:

Bert wanted to stand up for his teammate. He slightly overworked for sure. It was a cheapshot, yes. He beat Moore from behind. BUT it was not like a "blind side hit" or stuff like that. Moore was aware of what Bert wanted and ran away like a cry baby. No one, not Bert, noone else, could foresee what would happen the moment Bert hit him. Had Moore not fallen absolutely strangely, it would have resulted in an ordinary 2-game ban or stuff like that. And every hockeyfan especially in North america would have rather blamed Moore of cowardy then Bert for anything. The incident was 10% cheapshot and 90% accident.

And as I said, I said so in 2004 already. It should be written in here somewhere ;o)

I am more then happy with the deal. I like Matthias, I had hopes he could lift his production to the next level and become a power forward for the wings himself. But after all the Wings have a lot of good to great prospects to sign the next two years. So he might have gone lost in a numbers game anyway. Seing that we might have given up NOTHING at all in the long run unless he seriously outplays Emmerton, D. Axelson, Mursak and co the next year. So there is NO risk at all. But you have the reward of one of the 10 best forwards in the game who fills a desperate team need as well, in his prime. And you only pay for it (and a reasonable price!!) when he delivers a great playoff performance or you see finals! How much more can you get???

It is like the Hasek signing: The Risk is close to zero. But the reward can be a Cup! Both are Conn Smythe Candidates for a discount price. The cap space for Bert would have been lost anyway, Hasek cost hardly anything and is payed for good playoffs only, basically. I think, a lot of people here should start to walk to Canossa where Holland is concernded. He is calm, yes, but from the Hasek move on until the Bert-deal he did a job that is hard to imagine doing better!

Mind you, guys, one year ago Bert brought you a Luongo, one of the hottest commodities in the NHL!
I would go even further and say it was 5% a cheap shot and 95% en accident. The only problem here is that the result was terrilbe and Moore got badly hurt, but to me today's headhunting, which we see these days, is much worse than the Bertuzzi-Moore incident. I can't believe how people are blinded by the result and completely neglecting the intention.
And yes again. Moore had to fight Bertuzzi and not run away from him. I know that Moore fought someone, but it was not the end till the Nucks said it was the end. It was as much Moores' fault as it was Bertuzzi's if not even more.
I wonder if all that was the hype by the hockey haters which wanted to paint hockey as a blood thirsty/dangerous game.
I wolcome Bertuzzi by all means and do not care about the incident at all.

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Old
03-01-2007, 10:00 AM
  #140
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correct me if im wrong please....between the games of the naslund hit and the moore hit, wasnt there a game IN colorado? im pretty sure the was but i wouldnt swear to it in court.

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03-01-2007, 10:24 AM
  #141
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Don't think so. Or if so, could it be that Moore was banned for the hit? Think I remeber s.th. like that if I recall it. But would it change that much?

Bottom line is: All Bertuzzi did was want to fight with Moore. Moore was on the lookout for a quiet little place to hide and Bert basically gave him ONE Punch. It was not a Marty McSorley or Alexander Pereshogin-like two handed slash to the head or kicking with the blade or whatever. It was a punch with the fist. Happening various times per game. Thats it. That is what one could blame him for.

Basically he fell into what happened afterwards without having done more. He fell over Moore. And then 10 players jumped on him. McCarthy's punch on Lemieux in the revenge game was 10 times worse. Or some knee-checks, or slashes to the Knee or Hand. And so on.

You know, it was like a player wanting to hook an opposing player at the soulder, slipping away and getting to the eye with the opponent losing an eye.

That would be a severe injury from a mere hook. No intent. The guy might never be able to play the game again and is handicapped for life. But it remains a unlucky hook. Brashear had no REALLY severe injuries form the McSorley slash. So... the hook is the worse action? No, it is not! What McSorley did was 1000 times worse. With less result. Strange, isn't it?

If one leaves the outcome away Bert did something he might not even have gotten a game-misc. for! Maybe a ban of 1-3 games afterwards. Minor stuff. I think the action itself is VASTLY exaggerated due to the outcome.
Yes, that is terrible. But it was an accident. Do you blame the guy that shot the puck that broke Yzermans Collarbone in the 2004 (?) playoffs? No, you do not. Accident. Severe? Yes, but not intended.

Well I think you get my point.

And don't get me wrong, it has NOTHING to do with him being a Wing now that I see it that way. Always did. And I wrote it similarly when it happend.

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03-01-2007, 10:34 AM
  #142
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I agree with you, Zorin. This was my position on Bertuzzi from day one as well. How many times have Wing fans on this very board complained about how soft the Wings are and how no one stands up to any team that starts taking cheap shots at our stars? EVERY SINGLE TIME a cheap shot is taken at a Wing, we have much whining and gnashing of teeth.

Bertuzzi's approach is at the very heart of what many Canadian and/or traditionalists fans demand from their "heart and grit" players. They even label all Europeans as soft or somehow unworthy because they do not display this venerable character trait. Yet when the outcome was much more severe than anyone intended, Bertuzzi was branded as the most vile player in the history of sport.. anywhere on the planet... including the last 5000 years of documented human history. Am I the only one who sees the irony between what happened to Moore and how the blood feud between the Wings and Aves started? Bertuzzi's crime was in believing in the code and in what we call Old Time Hockey. Man, some people want to have it both ways, don't they?

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03-06-2007, 01:30 PM
  #143
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Oh, yeah, one more thing about Bertuzzi: If this man can clean up his tarnished reputation, he has come to the right place to do it. The Red Wings have perhaps the best atmosphere and leadership corps of any team in the NHL.
Wow, look what Naslund has to say about him.
Quote:
"He was unreal when he was here in Vancouver. He might be the most exciting player they've seen here, even more so than Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny. He brings so much more than scoring, because he can hit and make plays. He's definitely fun to watch."

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03-08-2007, 12:15 AM
  #144
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Everyone beware...today is the 3 year anniversay of the moore hit, so we may be having visitors to give us their points of view

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03-08-2007, 11:25 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Blades of Steel 1972 View Post
Everyone beware...today is the 3 year anniversay of the moore hit, so we may be having visitors to give us their points of view
sure why not...

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...14830-sun.html


as a forsberg fan i never liked DET, but i always respected them, especially stevie Y. that said, i think tuzzi is a clown who should not be allowed to play in the NHL. and i think he will ruin any team he is on.

i hope DET fans are happy to have this joke join their team. we will see how you like him when he fails to produce anything but bad penalties.

good luck this year, you will need it.

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03-08-2007, 12:12 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by F0rsbergFan21 View Post
sure why not...

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...14830-sun.html


as a forsberg fan i never liked DET, but i always respected them, especially stevie Y. that said, i think tuzzi is a clown who should not be allowed to play in the NHL. and i think he will ruin any team he is on.

i hope DET fans are happy to have this joke join their team. we will see how you like him when he fails to produce anything but bad penalties.

good luck this year, you will need it.
All this is because the journalists and lawyers make money out of this case, so they want to keep it going.
Moore, it was unfortunate what happened to him, not planned. If he thought hockey was dangerous in the 1st place, he should not have played it, instead of whining now. He is probably brainwashed by his lawyer, but it does not help his case. He whines.

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03-09-2007, 02:33 AM
  #147
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This is much, much worse.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6RyAI9370
Simon should be banned forever and imprisoned.

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03-09-2007, 04:27 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
This is much, much worse.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6RyAI9370
Simon should be banned forever and imprisoned.

That hit was disgraceful. I cant see him playing for the rest of this year.

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03-09-2007, 12:03 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
This is much, much worse.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ht6RyAI9370
Simon should be banned forever and imprisoned.

Crazy, crazy thing! THIS is really something unacceptable. Up there with McSorley on Brashear or Pereshogin on Stafford! He should receive 5 times the ban Bertuzzi did! His opponent could have even died ON INTEND!!!! Disgusting!

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