HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

We have Bobby Clarke for a GM!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-11-2003, 08:24 AM
  #1
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,608
vCash: 500
We have Bobby Clarke for a GM!

Yeah that’s right our GM’s ego is out of control and he is making Edmonton a place players would rather avoid. I have no problem with him and his “pay as you go” policy, especially if Comrie is limiting the destinations he is willing to go to, but shouldn’t this policy have made clear to MC a long time ago. More and more Klowe is acting like a tyrant, an “I’ve won cups and I know what’s best” attitude that reeks out of Bobby Clarke’s pours as well. Consider the similarities;

- both of gotten into p***ing contests with their respective franchise players to the detriment of the team
- both of a tendency to stalk up on particular strengths, Clarke can’t get enough size on his team no matter how bad his goaltending or D-men are, Lowe wants forwards, forwards, forwards and a Defence made up of K-lowe clones.
- Both will publicly chastise players
- Most importantly both have an aura of invincibility because of past feats that makes them both powerful, feared and incredibly prone to stupid mistakes .

Again I’m not criticizing Lowe’s new policy for Comrie, why not make players pay for us to give up their 10 year rights. What I have a problem with is the way Lowe continues to exude classlessness in his dealings with players Carter/Marchant/Comrie. He keeps rewarding the wrong players on this team , Moreau/Staios/Laraque/Isbister who granted are hard working lunchpail team guys but are also players who have never won a SINGLE FRICKING thing for this franchise. If Terry Jones’s column is accurate then I can understand why MC is mad. Lowe criticizing his play down the stretch (with a hurt wrist) and in the playoffs (against a suffocating team they haven’t beat in 5 years) and then following it up with a 1.1 million offer while he throws more money at Big George “I love my mama” Laraque and Brad “Kilger” Isbister. Lowballing or not there is a way of doing business with your players that shows respect while at the same time not compromising your bargaining position. Faxing a contract offer with no personal correspondence is not it (ala Marchant and now MC). Lowe seems to have some personal vendetta against skilled players who aren’t plugger warriors. It’s like he wants to prove to the world that the Lumley’s and Fogolins were the true key to the Oiler dynasty. Well he’s wrong and he’s dragging the franchise down because of it. Look at our weaknesses.

He trades Carter and now our power play has gone from bad to worse.

He let’s Marchant go (for nothing) and look-de-do we are statistically the worst penalty killing team since Moses was a cowboy.

He trades D-men for forwards and suddenly we have tons of forward depth (so much so that we are rotting players like Chimera and Rita) and a defence that has less motion than a glacier and AHL skill.

Smyth is in a funk because he has no center man for the first time in his career. Our faceoffs were so bad we had to spend cash we can’t afford on a 41 year old face off specialist.

Where are we headed? What is the focus? If we miss the playoffs this year then Lowe’s record will be as such – 4 years/ 2 playoff series/ 4 playoff wins. Not impressive at all. If this happens then Lowe should be given one more year after the lockout to prove his game plan is working or its sayanora time and go to the Rangers franchise.

HotToddy is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 10:02 AM
  #2
Axis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Yeah that’s right our GM’s ego is out of control and he is making Edmonton a place players would rather avoid. I have no problem with him and his “pay as you go” policy, especially if Comrie is limiting the destinations he is willing to go to, but shouldn’t this policy have made clear to MC a long time ago. More and more Klowe is acting like a tyrant, an “I’ve won cups and I know what’s best” attitude that reeks out of Bobby Clarke’s pours as well. Consider the similarities;

- both of gotten into p***ing contests with their respective franchise players to the detriment of the team
- both of a tendency to stalk up on particular strengths, Clarke can’t get enough size on his team no matter how bad his goaltending or D-men are, Lowe wants forwards, forwards, forwards and a Defence made up of K-lowe clones.
- Both will publicly chastise players
- Most importantly both have an aura of invincibility because of past feats that makes them both powerful, feared and incredibly prone to stupid mistakes .

Again I’m not criticizing Lowe’s new policy for Comrie, why not make players pay for us to give up their 10 year rights. What I have a problem with is the way Lowe continues to exude classlessness in his dealings with players Carter/Marchant/Comrie. He keeps rewarding the wrong players on this team , Moreau/Staios/Laraque/Isbister who granted are hard working lunchpail team guys but are also players who have never won a SINGLE FRICKING thing for this franchise. If Terry Jones’s column is accurate then I can understand why MC is mad. Lowe criticizing his play down the stretch (with a hurt wrist) and in the playoffs (against a suffocating team they haven’t beat in 5 years) and then following it up with a 1.1 million offer while he throws more money at Big George “I love my mama” Laraque and Brad “Kilger” Isbister. Lowballing or not there is a way of doing business with your players that shows respect while at the same time not compromising your bargaining position. Faxing a contract offer with no personal correspondence is not it (ala Marchant and now MC). Lowe seems to have some personal vendetta against skilled players who aren’t plugger warriors. It’s like he wants to prove to the world that the Lumley’s and Fogolins were the true key to the Oiler dynasty. Well he’s wrong and he’s dragging the franchise down because of it. Look at our weaknesses.

He trades Carter and now our power play has gone from bad to worse.

He let’s Marchant go (for nothing) and look-de-do we are statistically the worst penalty killing team since Moses was a cowboy.

He trades D-men for forwards and suddenly we have tons of forward depth (so much so that we are rotting players like Chimera and Rita) and a defence that has less motion than a glacier and AHL skill.

Smyth is in a funk because he has no center man for the first time in his career. Our faceoffs were so bad we had to spend cash we can’t afford on a 41 year old face off specialist.

Where are we headed? What is the focus? If we miss the playoffs this year then Lowe’s record will be as such – 4 years/ 2 playoff series/ 4 playoff wins. Not impressive at all. If this happens then Lowe should be given one more year after the lockout to prove his game plan is working or its sayanora time and go to the Rangers franchise.


I totally agree with you here. Please let me add that Niinimaa played on a bad knee most of last year. Mike Grier played with one shoulder before being traded. And Todd Marchant was given a contract under the league average thus giving him a huge hole to leave via free agency.
We may have a second line now but it looks like it cost us a first line and most of our strength on defence and in the toughness and leadership department.

Axis is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 10:43 AM
  #3
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Yeah that’s right our GM’s ego is out of control and he is making Edmonton a place players would rather avoid. I have no problem with him and his “pay as you go” policy, especially if Comrie is limiting the destinations he is willing to go to, but shouldn’t this policy have made clear to MC a long time ago. More and more Klowe is acting like a tyrant, an “I’ve won cups and I know what’s best” attitude that reeks out of Bobby Clarke’s pours as well. Consider the similarities;

- both of gotten into p***ing contests with their respective franchise players to the detriment of the team
- both of a tendency to stalk up on particular strengths, Clarke can’t get enough size on his team no matter how bad his goaltending or D-men are, Lowe wants forwards, forwards, forwards and a Defence made up of K-lowe clones.
- Both will publicly chastise players
- Most importantly both have an aura of invincibility because of past feats that makes them both powerful, feared and incredibly prone to stupid mistakes .

Again I’m not criticizing Lowe’s new policy for Comrie, why not make players pay for us to give up their 10 year rights. What I have a problem with is the way Lowe continues to exude classlessness in his dealings with players Carter/Marchant/Comrie. He keeps rewarding the wrong players on this team , Moreau/Staios/Laraque/Isbister who granted are hard working lunchpail team guys but are also players who have never won a SINGLE FRICKING thing for this franchise. If Terry Jones’s column is accurate then I can understand why MC is mad. Lowe criticizing his play down the stretch (with a hurt wrist) and in the playoffs (against a suffocating team they haven’t beat in 5 years) and then following it up with a 1.1 million offer while he throws more money at Big George “I love my mama” Laraque and Brad “Kilger” Isbister. Lowballing or not there is a way of doing business with your players that shows respect while at the same time not compromising your bargaining position. Faxing a contract offer with no personal correspondence is not it (ala Marchant and now MC). Lowe seems to have some personal vendetta against skilled players who aren’t plugger warriors. It’s like he wants to prove to the world that the Lumley’s and Fogolins were the true key to the Oiler dynasty. Well he’s wrong and he’s dragging the franchise down because of it. Look at our weaknesses.

He trades Carter and now our power play has gone from bad to worse.

He let’s Marchant go (for nothing) and look-de-do we are statistically the worst penalty killing team since Moses was a cowboy.

He trades D-men for forwards and suddenly we have tons of forward depth (so much so that we are rotting players like Chimera and Rita) and a defence that has less motion than a glacier and AHL skill.

Smyth is in a funk because he has no center man for the first time in his career. Our faceoffs were so bad we had to spend cash we can’t afford on a 41 year old face off specialist.

Where are we headed? What is the focus? If we miss the playoffs this year then Lowe’s record will be as such – 4 years/ 2 playoff series/ 4 playoff wins. Not impressive at all. If this happens then Lowe should be given one more year after the lockout to prove his game plan is working or its sayanora time and go to the Rangers franchise.
Are you still crying because that waste of money Marchant is gone?

Lowe has been saying for the past few years that he is building a team for after the new CBA.

Sorry, but Marchant didn't fit the bill, and he was occupying valuable resources (aka money) in the meantime.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 10:48 AM
  #4
Bohologo
Registered User
 
Bohologo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tokyo
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
gotten into p***ing contests with their respective franchise players to the detriment of the team...

...prove his game plan is working or its sayanora time
Comrie is not a franchise player; he's a good core member, but someone like Hemsky or Brewer is a franchise player.

Lowe has been very clear and very consistent that his 'game plan' is all about having the Oilers compete post-2004 CBA.

I'm sorry your favourite players are getting shipped, but here's a question: are you a Todd Marchant fan first, or an Oilers fan first? Because Marchant chose to play in Columbus-he's clearly not as devoted to you as you are to him.

Bohologo is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 10:49 AM
  #5
gb701
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Yeah that’s right our GM’s ego is out of control and he is making Edmonton a place players would rather avoid. I have no problem with him and his “pay as you go” policy, especially if Comrie is limiting the destinations he is willing to go to, but shouldn’t this policy have made clear to MC a long time ago. More and more Klowe is acting like a tyrant, an “I’ve won cups and I know what’s best” attitude that reeks out of Bobby Clarke’s pours as well. Consider the similarities
I wouldn't want to defend Lowe totally since you make some good points, but what makes you think "this policy" hasn't been made clear to MC and this latest publicity is not just another attempt by MC/Winter to manipulate the situation even more. My understanding is that Winter was the first to propose that MC could sweeten the pot if required, which is not an unreasonable suggestion if Comrie is also trying to dictate where he is willing to go to as suggested in today's Journal.

There is no winner here.

gb701 is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:05 AM
  #6
MrMackey
Registered User
 
MrMackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cgy
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
I totally agree with you here. Please let me add that Niinimaa played on a bad knee most of last year. Mike Grier played with one shoulder before being traded. And Todd Marchant was given a contract under the league average thus giving him a huge hole to leave via free agency.
We may have a second line now but it looks like it cost us a first line and most of our strength on defence and in the toughness and leadership department.
Okay, so you're saying that Grier and Niinimaa were damaged goods when they were traded. I agree that our defense is weaker, but as a small market team we can't have it all.

I disagree with the toughness side of things. I think with losing Poti, Grier, Marchant and Niinimaa, and replacing with Isbister, Torres, York, Dvorak, Cross doesn't give up a single thing in terms of toughness. If anything, it may be that MacT's coaching style prevents these players from playing the crashing style they're capable of.

Also, I think the addition of Oates addresses leadership. And if Brewer and Salo were playing the way they should be, EDM fans (me included) wouldn't be complaining near as much about the current lineup.

MrMackey is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:18 AM
  #7
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohologo
Comrie is not a franchise player; he's a good core member, but someone like Hemsky or Brewer is a franchise player.

Lowe has been very clear and very consistent that his 'game plan' is all about having the Oilers compete post-2004 CBA.

I'm sorry your favourite players are getting shipped, but here's a question: are you a Todd Marchant fan first, or an Oilers fan first? Because Marchant chose to play in Columbus-he's clearly not as devoted to you as you are to him.
I'm an Oiler fan first and I've watched many of my favourate players shipped out as all Oiler fans have.

What bothers me about Marchant is that he didn't "choose" to play in Columbus. K-Lowe for whatever reason wouldn't offer him 2 million on his last Oiler contract. It's a great big myth that the Oilers didn't want Marchant becasue his value was at 3.75 million. They could have signed him for 2 million, he said so himself, instead they offered him a 10% raise and he choose to take under the league minimum instead making him 1 year away from UFA. Then K-Lowe tops it off by not only getting nothing for Marchant but by treating a 10 year vet like a piece of unwanted trash.

Bad asset management
Bad team talent evaluation (we're now paying a 41 year-old 2 mil for alot of the things that Marchant brought to the club)
Bad organizational class

HotToddy is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:19 AM
  #8
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
I'm an Oiler fan first and I've watched many of my favourate players shipped out as all Oiler fans have.

What bothers me about Marchant is that he didn't "choose" to play in Columbus. K-Lowe for whatever reason wouldn't offer him 2 million on his last Oiler contract. It's a great big myth that the Oilers didn't want Marchant becasue his value was at 3.75 million. They could have signed him for 2 million, he said so himself, instead they offered him a 10% raise and he choose to take under the league minimum instead making him 1 year away from UFA. Then K-Lowe tops it off by not only getting nothing for Marchant but by treating a 10 year vet like a piece of unwanted trash.

Bad asset management
Bad team talent evaluation (we're now paying a 41 year-old 2 mil for alot of the things that Marchant brought to the club)
Bad organizational class
At the time of that contract, Marchant was not worth $2million.

He was a 3rd line centre coming off a horrible year, and that is not something the Oilers can shell out $2 million for.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:27 AM
  #9
Boondock Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
They could have signed him for 2 million, he said so himself, instead they offered him a 10% raise and he choose to take under the league minimum instead making him 1 year away from UFA. Then K-Lowe tops it off by not only getting nothing for Marchant but by treating a 10 year vet like a piece of unwanted trash.
If you don't understand the situation, don't post your thoughts. You just end up looking like a moron.

If we had given Marchant the $2 million deal, he would have arbitration rights for his next deal.

Remember Jason Smith, who now makes $2.5 million??

Marchant would have undoubtedly won more than that from his arbitrator, pricing him out of our range...

The problem is the same as it has been for years, we can't afford to pay Marchant what he wants (or would have won in arbitration) for the role he played.

Simple as that.

Sorry, but $3 million plus would have been way too much for a defensive center.

And by the way, unwanted trash??? I can guarantee you no one was happier about the $1.5 million offer to Marchant, than Toddy himself. It let him become unrestricted after a career year, and before the new CBA, which he otherwise would have missed. And he cashed in big.

It's a business, HotToddy. And with a sign-in name like that, I'd say you're probably a little biased towards Marchant anyways, so your opinion is kind of useless.

Boondock Saint is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:30 AM
  #10
Silver
Registered User
 
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 5,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Bad team talent evaluation (we're now paying a 41 year-old 2 mil for alot of the things that Marchant brought to the club)
You're seriously comparing a guy with hands of stone to Adam Oates? C'mon...the only similarity between Oates and Marchant is that they are both good at faceoffs.

Silver is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:32 AM
  #11
MrMackey
Registered User
 
MrMackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cgy
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
What bothers me about Marchant is that he didn't "choose" to play in Columbus. K-Lowe for whatever reason wouldn't offer him 2 million on his last Oiler contract. It's a great big myth that the Oilers didn't want Marchant becasue his value was at 3.75 million. They could have signed him for 2 million, he said so himself, instead they offered him a 10% raise and he choose to take under the league minimum instead making him 1 year away from UFA.
What I don't understand is how you know Marchant would have signed for $2M AND what would've made him worth $2M after the season he had in 2001/02.

He jumped on the offer to make less than the average because he knew his payday would come. If he was offered slightly more than the league average, do you think he would've signed no questions asked?

MrMackey is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:37 AM
  #12
MrMackey
Registered User
 
MrMackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cgy
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
we're now paying a 41 year-old 2 mil for alot of the things that Marchant brought to the club
No we're not. Oates is scheduled to make about $1,426,829 because his contract is pro-rated.

Further, Oates brings the leadership quality back as well as faceoff ability... but that's pretty much where the similarities end. Oates is much more valuable to our powerplay then Todd was last year (the place where Marchant was able to pad his stats).

MrMackey is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 11:53 AM
  #13
McOylerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McOylerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,414
vCash: 50
I was initially annoyed by the title of this thread, and I'm sure that was the intent. However, upon further reflection, Clarke has consistently put together a contending team for several years now, and I will have no problem with Lowe if he is able to do the same with half the $$ Clarke has. Furthermore, if Lowe is Clarke, Comrie is Lindros, and that aint flattery. Lindros has the rep of being a spoiled cry-baby who won't play unless he gets his way. Yep, I see that in Comrie. Clarke and Lowe are strong-willed GM's who don't back down and take no crap in negotiations.

Where the comparison breaks down is in the trades... Lowe has consistently gotten the best value out of his trades (don't try to brng up Weight because that one has been beaten to death and the sides are essentially split on the issue) whereas Clarke has been taken on a few.

As for your other comments, well they have been addressed quite adequately Mr Marchant.

McOylerz is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 12:27 PM
  #14
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,608
vCash: 500
I'll just try and answer some of the arguments in one post.

First of all I am biased I was a huge Marchant fan, just like I was a huge Tikkanen fan, Weight Fan and Guerin Fan. I can accept all of those players leaving because i do understand the economic realty of Edmonton.

What I can't understand is why everyone makes excuses for the way Lowe handled the Marchant dealings. Everyone throws on their "Lowe can't do wrong" glasses. Lowe messed this one up pure and simple.

He let him go to UFA, bad mistake, nevermind his arbitration rights the following year that's a ridiculous argument and is subjective. No arbritration decision was going to make Marchant untradeable. And Yes Marchant did say after signing his under the minimum deal that quote " If they offered me 2 million I would have been interested".

He didn't trade Marchant who was having a career year. Again bad mistake, even a draft pick is superior to getting nothing.

He topped it off by insulting a loyal veteran by fed-exing a qualifying offer to him.

And lastly I'm getting sick of people talking about how we couldn't afford a 2 million 3rd line centre but we can afford a just under 2 million dollar undrachieving winger like Isbister. Sometimes you need players who do more than just put up points. Intangible things like actually knowing how to kill a penalty, having speed that makes other teams PP respect you, leadership, timely goals, and a good faceoff man. We gave that all away for nothing. And I like the argument about how he padded his stats last year.For ten years He plays 18 minutes a game for us 10 of them onthe penalty kill and the other 8 against the other teams best line. For one year he gets PP time and firstline minutes and everyone writes it off as a fluke.

Lastly, I would change my name - If I knew how .

HotToddy is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 12:39 PM
  #15
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,960
vCash: 500
Marchant had a lousy season is the reason why he was offered over the qualifying offer. It was his worst season. Was Lowe to know that Marchant would have that many points. The only reason Marchant had that many points is because of injury. He played on the top line with Smyth and Hemsky and that's the only reason Marchant had that many points.

__________________
"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
Narnia is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 12:40 PM
  #16
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
csnip...

What I can't understand is why everyone makes excuses for the way Lowe handled the Marchant dealings. Everyone throws on their "Lowe can't do wrong" glasses. Lowe messed this one up pure and simple.

He let him go to UFA, bad mistake, nevermind his arbitration rights the following year that's a ridiculous argument and is subjective. No arbritration decision was going to make Marchant untradeable. And Yes Marchant did say after signing his under the minimum deal that quote " If they offered me 2 million I would have been interested".
No they aren't ridiculous and subjective arguments. If Lowe gives Marchant $2mil after a poor year, that means regardless of how Marchant plays, he is going to command at least $2mil the following season, and that is without even getting within a sniff of the arbitrator yet. If Lowe pays him $2mil last year, and he had a bad a year as the one before, Lowe now has no choice but to stay on the same path.

Quote:
He didn't trade Marchant who was having a career year. Again bad mistake, even a draft pick is superior to getting nothing.
So you trade Marchant away for a pick, then use that pick to get a player in a rental type situation? Does that make any sense to you? Why not just keep the guy, as he already knows the team, and there is no adjustment period.

Quote:
He topped it off by insulting a loyal veteran by fed-exing a qualifying offer to him.
How exactly is that insulting? It's the same crap that Todd pulled last year when Carter got trading, saying it was stupid how he had to find out through the media instead of directly from Lowe. Well gee Todd, maybe if Anson picked up his cell phone, he would have known earlier.

Quote:
And lastly I'm getting sick of people talking about how we couldn't afford a 2 million 3rd line centre but we can afford a just under 2 million dollar undrachieving winger like Isbister. Sometimes you need players who do more than just put up points. Intangible things like actually knowing how to kill a penalty, having speed that makes other teams PP respect you, leadership, timely goals, and a good faceoff man. We gave that all away for nothing. And I like the argument about how he padded his stats last year.For ten years He plays 18 minutes a game for us 10 of them onthe penalty kill and the other 8 against the other teams best line. For one year he gets PP time and firstline minutes and everyone writes it off as a fluke.

Lastly, I would change my name - If I knew how .
The main difference between Marchant and Isbister is that Isbister has potential, and Marchant was a season away from being a UFA. We have forwards who know how to kill penalties in York, Moreau, Reasoner... Even with Marchant, this team wasn't that good at killing penalties last season. And sometimes, you just have to hand the reigns off to someone else. Todd was good at a lot of things, but both Stoll and Reasoner were showing they could do the same things, making Todd expendable.

Todd Marchant was not a leader. This is the same guy who pretended to be insulted by the Oilers only giving him a qualifying offer (gee, Moreau was never that insulted, in fact, he signed for a lot less money than he could have long term), and then had a great regular season to show the league he is ready for a payday, then he fell of the face of the earth in the playoffs. Great leadership.


Last edited by dawgbone: 12-11-2003 at 12:59 PM.
dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 12:58 PM
  #17
MrMackey
Registered User
 
MrMackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cgy
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
And lastly I'm getting sick of people talking about how we couldn't afford a 2 million 3rd line centre but we can afford a just under 2 million dollar undrachieving winger like Isbister. Sometimes you need players who do more than just put up points. Intangible things like actually knowing how to kill a penalty, having speed that makes other teams PP respect you, leadership, timely goals, and a good faceoff man. We gave that all away for nothing. And I like the argument about how he padded his stats last year.For ten years He plays 18 minutes a game for us 10 of them onthe penalty kill and the other 8 against the other teams best line. For one year he gets PP time and firstline minutes and everyone writes it off as a fluke.
I don't like paying Isbister this much either, which is exactly the point with Marchant. But Izzy is the exception, not the rule. Lowe's history has shown that he won't keep underacheivers around too long... even if he's brought them here in the first place (note Dopita, Hecht).

I like the Staios and Moreau signings. I didn't mind the Brewer and York signings, and the Smith signing is palatable, considering he didn't get another raise this year. However, if we go around awarding third line players (as Marchant was at the time) with lucrative contracts then something has to give and we'll be waving goodbye to someone else.

I am a Lowe supporter, more and more every day. However my love for the team precedes any respect I have for Lowe, and he will always have to keep proving himself to stay in good stead with me.

MrMackey is offline  
Old
12-11-2003, 03:28 PM
  #18
windowlicker
Registered User
 
windowlicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Murky Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 2,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
I'll just try and answer some of the arguments in one post.

First of all I am biased I was a huge Marchant fan, just like I was a huge Tikkanen fan, Weight Fan and Guerin Fan. I can accept all of those players leaving because i do understand the economic realty of Edmonton.

What I can't understand is why everyone makes excuses for the way Lowe handled the Marchant dealings. Everyone throws on their "Lowe can't do wrong" glasses. Lowe messed this one up pure and simple.

He let him go to UFA, bad mistake, nevermind his arbitration rights the following year that's a ridiculous argument and is subjective. No arbritration decision was going to make Marchant untradeable. And Yes Marchant did say after signing his under the minimum deal that quote " If they offered me 2 million I would have been interested".

He didn't trade Marchant who was having a career year. Again bad mistake, even a draft pick is superior to getting nothing.

He topped it off by insulting a loyal veteran by fed-exing a qualifying offer to him.

And lastly I'm getting sick of people talking about how we couldn't afford a 2 million 3rd line centre but we can afford a just under 2 million dollar undrachieving winger like Isbister. Sometimes you need players who do more than just put up points. Intangible things like actually knowing how to kill a penalty, having speed that makes other teams PP respect you, leadership, timely goals, and a good faceoff man. We gave that all away for nothing. And I like the argument about how he padded his stats last year.For ten years He plays 18 minutes a game for us 10 of them onthe penalty kill and the other 8 against the other teams best line. For one year he gets PP time and firstline minutes and everyone writes it off as a fluke.

Lastly, I would change my name - If I knew how .
At the time, Marchant was not worth that money. He had alot of years under him as a hard working player who killed penalties.. .. he also had speed to burn.. but Never put the numbers up. Detroit can afford a hard working lunch-pail type of guy for that money... not Edmonton. Not when guys like Stoll are knocking on the door. There is player royalty, and then theres the reality of the game... and the reality is Edmonton as a small market franchise could replace someone like Marchant with a younger, cheaper version.

And the only reason people were so pissed he walked away was his career year he had when suddenly injuries gave him ALot of ice time.
One year out of how many?

I was a Marchant fan as well. But hes not here now. Im a Stoll fan now.

windowlicker is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 03:41 AM
  #19
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
 
Bob Clarke Fan Club's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oylerz
I was initially annoyed by the title of this thread, and I'm sure that was the intent. However, upon further reflection, Clarke has consistently put together a contending team for several years now, and I will have no problem with Lowe if he is able to do the same with half the $$ Clarke has. Furthermore, if Lowe is Clarke, Comrie is Lindros, and that aint flattery. Lindros has the rep of being a spoiled cry-baby who won't play unless he gets his way. Yep, I see that in Comrie. Clarke and Lowe are strong-willed GM's who don't back down and take no crap in negotiations.

Where the comparison breaks down is in the trades... Lowe has consistently gotten the best value out of his trades (don't try to brng up Weight because that one has been beaten to death and the sides are essentially split on the issue) whereas Clarke has been taken on a few.

As for your other comments, well they have been addressed quite adequately Mr Marchant.


Rather than bashing a GM who has been relatively quiet since the Lindros debacle, why not just worry about your own GM. I realize Clarkie has left himself open for this but with the exception of the Oates deal his trading has been very good...OBVIOUSLY you must be talking of the unfair deal that he got ripped off in when acquiring Pitkanen. Maybe it's just the fact that Clarke is the GM of a first place team and Lowe is showing just how well he negotiates. No matter how you slice it...Clarke and Lowe are both a tad ruthless, but please don't compare them when it comes to returns for assets...cause we're in first and you're not gonna make the playoffs. You could bring up the payroll thing but that's just making excuses. Being Canadian I'm also an Oiler booster and would like to think you'd get fair value for Comrie...but you wont, so deal him and wash your hands clean of him. This 2.5 million kickback looks personal...If it walks like a duck...

Bob Clarke Fan Club is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 05:18 AM
  #20
tsunami
Registered User
 
tsunami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bienne - Switzerland
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
Rather than bashing a GM who has been relatively quiet since the Lindros debacle, why not just worry about your own GM. I realize Clarkie has left himself open for this but with the exception of the Oates deal his trading has been very good...OBVIOUSLY you must be talking of the unfair deal that he got ripped off in when acquiring Pitkanen. Maybe it's just the fact that Clarke is the GM of a first place team and Lowe is showing just how well he negotiates. No matter how you slice it...Clarke and Lowe are both a tad ruthless, but please don't compare them when it comes to returns for assets...cause we're in first and you're not gonna make the playoffs. You could bring up the payroll thing but that's just making excuses. Being Canadian I'm also an Oiler booster and would like to think you'd get fair value for Comrie...but you wont, so deal him and wash your hands clean of him. This 2.5 million kickback looks personal...If it walks like a duck...
Bob Clarke Fan Club ???

tsunami is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 05:26 AM
  #21
Bob Clarke Fan Club
Registered User
 
Bob Clarke Fan Club's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunami
Bob Clarke Fan Club ???


I was hoping to get an opinion from an educated Oilers fan. I don't see where liking Bobby Clarke is something to laugh about. The guy played with more heart than any Swiss player I've ever seen. Please...I know Oilers fans are some of the most intelligent in hockey could one of those reply instead of the Swiss Miss.
PS...if you like I could change my handle to the David Aebischer fan club.

Bob Clarke Fan Club is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 06:34 AM
  #22
McOylerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
McOylerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,414
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club
I was hoping to get an opinion from an educated Oilers fan. I don't see where liking Bobby Clarke is something to laugh about. The guy played with more heart than any Swiss player I've ever seen. Please...I know Oilers fans are some of the most intelligent in hockey could one of those reply instead of the Swiss Miss.
PS...if you like I could change my handle to the David Aebischer fan club.
You honestly think that with your user name that people are going to take your arguments in defense of Bobby Clarke seriously? I have no problem with you liking Bobby Clarke, but to come on here, after I actually defended him, and call me out for saying that some of his trades have been questionable reeks of homerism and it is further amplified by your moniker. Sure Clarke got good return for Fedotenko, but what about his aquiring of Oates (I know you said "aside from that" but you can't just arbitrarily throw out something you don't like), and what about these:

-1st round pick (later traded to Phoenix; Daniel Briere) and 4th round pick (later traded to Buffalo; Mike Martone) in 1996 and Martin Spanhel to San Jose for Pat Falloon.

-Pat Falloon, Vaclav Prospal, and a 2nd round pick in 1998 (Chris Bala) to Ottawa for Alexandre Daigle

Now, I never said Clarke sucked at trading I only said Lowe has consistently gotten good value in his trades. Clarke has has a few steals as well so I guess that evens out in the long run. Whatever, my point is that I was defending Clarke saying I hope Lowe is as good with half the budget (which is fact so don't whine about it).

McOylerz is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 08:00 AM
  #23
copperandblue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,719
vCash: 500
Just to add another comment to the Marchant thing.

Alot of people have been talking about how bad it was to let him go and about only needing to qualify him for 2 mil and we would still have him and everything would be rosey right now type of rational.

Lowe has never mislead anyone about building for post CBA and yes we are struggling right now and yes Marchant would most likely help our terrible penalty kill but if he would have been qualified and was still here right now, what would it have accomplished?

We only lost 1 year of service from him. I think it's safe to say that Marchant was the type of player that would have fled for the money upon reaching free agency so he was gone after this year anyways.

Therefore are the Oilers better off have Marchant right now and struggling with the penalty kill the year following the CBA or are they better off struggling now and hopefully have their problems addressed coming out of the CBA?

We can't expect the Oilers to win right now and build for post CBA also, so it seems to me that they are better off going through the pain this year then going through it the year they are actually expected to start taking the next step.

Or am I out too lunch?

copperandblue is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 08:02 AM
  #24
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
Just to add another comment to the Marchant thing.

Alot of people have been talking about how bad it was to let him go and about only needing to qualify him for 2 mil and we would still have him and everything would be rosey right now type of rational.

Lowe has never mislead anyone about building for post CBA and yes we are struggling right now and yes Marchant would most likely help our terrible penalty kill but if he would have been qualified and was still here right now, what would it have accomplished?

We only lost 1 year of service from him. I think it's safe to say that Marchant was the type of player that would have fled for the money upon reaching free agency so he was gone after this year anyways.

Therefore are the Oilers better off have Marchant right now and struggling with the penalty kill the year following the CBA or are they better off struggling now and hopefully have their problems addressed coming out of the CBA?

We can't expect the Oilers to win right now and build for post CBA also, so it seems to me that they are better off going through the pain this year then going through it the year they are actually expected to start taking the next step.

Or am I out too lunch?
I agree with you.

If it means the team will be better, and guys like Stoll and Reasoner will be better in 2-4 years, I will gladly take a crummy season this year.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-12-2003, 08:20 AM
  #25
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oylerz

Now, I never said Clarke sucked at trading I only said Lowe has consistently gotten good value in his trades. Clarke has has a few steals as well so I guess that evens out in the long run. Whatever, my point is that I was defending Clarke saying I hope Lowe is as good with half the budget (which is fact so don't whine about it).
I'll steal a quote from St. Louis Blue Kelly Chase: Even a blind dog finds a bone once in a while

Master Lok is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.