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Thank You Ryan Smyth And Thank You Kevin Lowe...

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02-27-2007, 09:54 PM
  #1
Bryanbryoil
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Thank You Ryan Smyth And Thank You Kevin Lowe...

Thank you Ryan Smyth for being a great Oiler, the only thing negative that I'd have to say about you is that you were always a tough player to sign. What you brought to the ice was heart, soul, and dedication.

Thank you Kevin Lowe for doing what you felt was in the teams best interest despite the pressure that is on your shoulders right now in trading the face of your franchise and on a night where you are celebrating one of your most beloved former teammates.

All in all, it was sad to see Ryan go, whether he was worth what he may have wanted or not, he was a guy that brought his all for the past 10 seasons wearing the Oil drop. That said, it is done, and while I know little about O'marra, other than the fact that his offensive stats are less than stellar in his 20 year old season in the OHL, Nilsson was said by WBS assistant coach Dan Blysthma to have better hands than Robbie Schremp. We also added a 3rd 1st round pick for this season. The pressure is now on Lowe and his scouting staff to make these picks turn into great young players. The rebuild is on, so-be-it, I trust this regime's drafting much more-so than the past regime's. Maybe Smyth returns, if he does this will go down as a great day for the future of the Oilers. If not, it will likely signify the end of the cardiac kids of the late 90's and early 2000's. Shed tears, do whatever you must do to let out your frustration, but just remember that both player and GM love this team, sometimes things just have to happen. May God bless both parties and the difficulties that they will have to face due to this trade. And lastly LET'S GO OILERS!!! Because no-one is bigger than the team, Player, Coach, GM, It doesn't matter. This is still the Edmonton Oilers and Smyth's mark will be left on this team for years to come whether he's here or not.

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02-27-2007, 10:05 PM
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Why do people feel the need to congradulate balls before brains??

Yeah the trade took a courage that Slats never had (see Joseph, Curtis & Richardson, Luke) but there was some terrible long term forecasting done by Lowe. He overpaid for Staios & Pisani and folded quick on contracts for Horcoff and Roloson. He rewarded Hemsky for 1 decent season, Smyth has 10 under his belt.

Young teams don't win, we went through the growing pains of the 90's with good young talent. This team needs serious veteran talent if we are to compete in the next 3 years.

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02-27-2007, 10:29 PM
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Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Why do people feel the need to congradulate balls before brains??

Yeah the trade took a courage that Slats never had (see Joseph, Curtis & Richardson, Luke) but there was some terrible long term forecasting done by Lowe. He overpaid for Staios & Pisani and folded quick on contracts for Horcoff and Roloson. He rewarded Hemsky for 1 decent season, Smyth has 10 under his belt.

Young teams don't win, we went through the growing pains of the 90's with good young talent. This team needs serious veteran talent if we are to compete in the next 3 years.
Name the great young talent that we had in the 90's??? The fact is that Smyth was not worth more than $5 million, I don't care how much you try and twist it. It's not like we sold off the entire team above the age of 30. That may come this off-season, but IMO we will be players in the off-season and at the draft.

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02-27-2007, 10:35 PM
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Name the great young talent that we had in the 90's???
Weight. Guerin. Graves. Smyth. Hamrlik. Ranford.

What team were you watching?

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02-27-2007, 10:44 PM
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Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
Weight. Guerin. Graves. Smyth. Hamrlik. Ranford.

What team were you watching?
Weight yes, Guerin no, Graves yes, Smyth yes, Hamrlik no, Ranford yes, Arnott yes, who else??? This re-building version will be far superior to that of the mid-late 90's.

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02-27-2007, 10:45 PM
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Here's to Smyth. I know it's a business, and that we have become quite immune over the last 10-15 years to losing franchise players. But this one stings a little more than the others in the fact that we could have easily afforded to keep Ryan Smyth.

But also here's to Klowe for doing something I'm sure he didnt want to have to do.

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02-27-2007, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
This re-building version will be far superior to that of the mid-late 90's.
Really? My magic 8 ball said 'Ask Again Later'.

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02-27-2007, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Weight yes, Guerin no, Graves yes, Smyth yes, Hamrlik no, Ranford yes, Arnott yes, who else??? This re-building version will be far superior to that of the mid-late 90's.
Yeah and we'll probably have to wait 12 years for it to develop.

The 1996 team had Arnott, Satan, Weight, Smyth, Marchant, Maltby, McCammond, Thorton, Buchburger, mMrchment, Richardson, Cujo/Ranford, Olausson, Mironov + 2 1st round picks in Wright & Bonsignor.

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02-27-2007, 11:35 PM
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Why would we rebuild? We were 1 goal from the cup and we resigned the core, were still below the cap and had lots of great young assets already.

For anyone who says Lowe is a genius for stockpiling talent, well give your head a shake. Do you think Staios/Smith/Horcoff/Hemsky/Pisani/Stoll/Rollie/Lupul or anyone else thought we'd decide to sell off Smytty and rebuild and compete in 3 years?

I love the Oil, but htis is a giant step backwards I don't understand. Who are we going to get this summer that is going to replace what R. Smyth brought to this team?? Who would want to sign with us knowning they have to replace Smyth in the minds of Oiler fans.

We got failed prospects (Nillsson is 2nd year pro and is considered soft and still in AHL, O'Mara had 0 gls in WJC) and no AHL team to play them in.

Tell me again how we won?

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02-27-2007, 11:46 PM
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Yeah, it was definitely a rip off for Edmonton. I don't think the oilers have the necessary institutions to prep all of this young talent to be able to compete in the big leagues. I think it will definitely take one or two very smart off season signings to get this team into playoffs for the next two to three seasons.

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02-27-2007, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Why do people feel the need to congradulate balls before brains??

Yeah the trade took a courage that Slats never had (see Joseph, Curtis & Richardson, Luke) but there was some terrible long term forecasting done by Lowe. He overpaid for Staios & Pisani and folded quick on contracts for Horcoff and Roloson. He rewarded Hemsky for 1 decent season, Smyth has 10 under his belt.

Young teams don't win, we went through the growing pains of the 90's with good young talent. This team needs serious veteran talent if we are to compete in the next 3 years.
You are making the assumption that Smyth ended up being dealt b/c his request priced him out of our market/budget. But... it is at least as likely that Lowe did use his brain and just felt that the X million that he wanted was not worth the return relative to what that money could buy in relation to the entire league.

Put another way, I don't think this had much to do with small market deal. I think it had more to do with an opportunity to get some assets that may fit very well in the Hemsky/Stoll window AND still have the Smyth money available this summer for him... or a player of his calibre.

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02-27-2007, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Yeah and we'll probably have to wait 12 years for it to develop.

The 1996 team had Arnott, Satan, Weight, Smyth, Marchant, Maltby, McCammond, Thorton, Buchburger, mMrchment, Richardson, Cujo/Ranford, Olausson, Mironov + 2 1st round picks in Wright & Bonsignor.
Stars-Weight, Cujo

Solid-Arnott, Marchant, Maltby, McAmmond, Thornton, Buchberger, Marchment, Richardson, Ranford

Under utilized-Satan

Too young to contribute-Smyth

Fraser and Slats at their finest-Wright and Bonsignore.


Is ANYONE on this board going to tell me with a straight face that Slats and Fraser's last 10 years of drafting would be better than what Lowe and Prendergast will get us??? Yeah, I didn't think so.

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02-27-2007, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
Why would we rebuild? We were 1 goal from the cup and we resigned the core, were still below the cap and had lots of great young assets already.

For anyone who says Lowe is a genius for stockpiling talent, well give your head a shake. Do you think Staios/Smith/Horcoff/Hemsky/Pisani/Stoll/Rollie/Lupul or anyone else thought we'd decide to sell off Smytty and rebuild and compete in 3 years?

I love the Oil, but htis is a giant step backwards I don't understand. Who are we going to get this summer that is going to replace what R. Smyth brought to this team?? Who would want to sign with us knowning they have to replace Smyth in the minds of Oiler fans.

We got failed prospects (Nillsson is 2nd year pro and is considered soft and still in AHL, O'Mara had 0 gls in WJC) and no AHL team to play them in.

Tell me again how we won?
1 win away from the Cup with Peca, Pronger, and Spacek all being key contributors who all have since left. The minute that Pronger was dealt any thoughts of contending this year or next should've been put on the back burner. I don't see this as a full-on re-build, but there will likely be other moves to come in the off-season. Signing a guy like Hartnell and then hopefully a guy like Phillips would go a long way to improving the team and making them a legit play-off threat (to get there at least). The bottom line is that you don't overpay a guy on a long-term deal.

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02-28-2007, 12:03 AM
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1 win away from the Cup with Peca, Pronger, and Spacek all being key contributors who all have since left. The minute that Pronger was dealt any thoughts of contending this year or next should've been put on the back burner. I don't see this as a full-on re-build, but there will likely be other moves to come in the off-season. Signing a guy like Hartnell and then hopefully a guy like Phillips would go a long way to improving the team and making them a legit play-off threat (to get there at least). The bottom line is that you don't overpay a guy on a long-term deal.
So why sign all those guys to long-term contracts ? Why resign rollie for 4Mil/year if we are not going to contend for the next 3 years?? Staios? Moreau?

This trade was made out of ego by Lowe. Pure and simple.

I don't understand why we didn't at least get a D prospect which was our most glaring weakness this year. Bobby Ryan straight up woulda been better than this.

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02-28-2007, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Why do people feel the need to congradulate balls before brains??

Yeah the trade took a courage that Slats never had (see Joseph, Curtis & Richardson, Luke) but there was some terrible long term forecasting done by Lowe. He overpaid for Staios & Pisani and folded quick on contracts for Horcoff and Roloson. He rewarded Hemsky for 1 decent season, Smyth has 10 under his belt.

Young teams don't win, we went through the growing pains of the 90's with good young talent. This team needs serious veteran talent if we are to compete in the next 3 years.
Considering the ridiculous deals going around for UFA defencemen, I'd hardly consider Staios overpaid.

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02-28-2007, 12:16 AM
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[QUOTE=Bryanbryoil;8291384]Stars-Weight, Cujo

Solid-Arnott, Marchant, Maltby, McAmmond, Thornton, Buchberger, Marchment, Richardson, Ranford

Under utilized-Satan

Too young to contribute-Smyth

Fraser and Slats at their finest-Wright and Bonsignore.


Is ANYONE on this board going to tell me with a straight face that Slats and Fraser's last 10 years of drafting would be better than what Lowe and Prendergast will get us??? Yeah, I didn't think so.[/QUOTE


Who the ****** is talking about drafting records??

I'm talking about playing a lineup of kids who talented as they may be,will struggle.

Rookies = suck, the less rookie games we have the better chace we have of winning, Lowe basically just set us up for two more years of breaking in rookies. That means more struggles.

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02-28-2007, 12:18 AM
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Bryanbryoil
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Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
So why sign all those guys to long-term contracts ? Why resign rollie for 4Mil/year if we are not going to contend for the next 3 years?? Staios? Moreau?

This trade was made out of ego by Lowe. Pure and simple.

I don't understand why we didn't at least get a D prospect which was our most glaring weakness this year. Bobby Ryan straight up woulda been better than this.
The top question can simply be answered by the fact that Lowe doesn't want the team to be a celler dweller while the youth gets broken in. However I can see where you're coming from. Truth be told no-one thought that last years team would do what they did. It was likely Lowe's plan to contend in 2-3 seasons. This way Pronger, Hemsky, Stoll, and Torres would be the top dogs, and the other vets would fill their roles as role players that helped to be a contender. This team is a weird mixture of older guys that are just about beyond their best seasons and guys that have yet to hit their primes. IMO I'd be looking at guys like Phillips and Hartnell to fit into the core of the team. I've said it for awhile now the true core of this team is now Stoll, Hemsky, and Torres. Roughly the same age, all 3 are possible game changers, etc.

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02-28-2007, 12:23 AM
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[QUOTE=HotToddy;8291807]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Stars-Weight, Cujo

Solid-Arnott, Marchant, Maltby, McAmmond, Thornton, Buchberger, Marchment, Richardson, Ranford

Under utilized-Satan

Too young to contribute-Smyth

Fraser and Slats at their finest-Wright and Bonsignore.


Is ANYONE on this board going to tell me with a straight face that Slats and Fraser's last 10 years of drafting would be better than what Lowe and Prendergast will get us??? Yeah, I didn't think so.[/QUOTE


Who the ****** is talking about drafting records??

I'm talking about playing a lineup of kids who talented as they may be,will struggle.

Rookies = suck, the less rookie games we have the better chace we have of winning, Lowe basically just set us up for two more years of breaking in rookies. That means more struggles.
Look past the nose on your face, they maybe rookies now and next season, but they won't be the season after. Look at the improvement from guys like Stoll between his first NHL season and his 3rd. Not to mention Stoll, hemsky, Lupul, Torres, Greene, Smid, Pouliot, etc. will all be a year older and better next year, added to that vets like Smith, Roloson, Staios, Moreau, Pisani, Horcoff, Reasoner, Sykora (IMO he'll re-sign), Hejda, and some likely veteran acquisitions to shore up our team needs. We could still make the post-season next year. IMO we were far from Cup contender this season anyway. I love this, guys that would defend their coach and GM to the grave, now they're having hissy fits because he made what he feels is the best decision for this team and it doesn't fit their win now mode. The Anaheim and Carolina models of returning to glory is what we must do, I felt that way from the minute we lost Game 7. You don't get to the Cup Finals every season.

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02-28-2007, 12:44 AM
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So why sign all those guys to long-term contracts ? Why resign rollie for 4Mil/year if we are not going to contend for the next 3 years?? Staios? Moreau?

This trade was made out of ego by Lowe. Pure and simple.

I don't understand why we didn't at least get a D prospect which was our most glaring weakness this year. Bobby Ryan straight up woulda been better than this.
Assuming of course Burke wanted to trade Bobby Ryan. Pure and Simple.

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02-28-2007, 12:48 AM
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Assuming of course Burke wanted to trade Bobby Ryan. Pure and Simple.
Honestly, I like what we got more than Bobby Ryan straight up. Even if for arguements sake that was on the table, IMO this was the better deal to be made.

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02-28-2007, 12:49 AM
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I won't disagree (nor even agree).

I believe Lowe knows way more than I'll ever know about young players at this stage of their career.

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02-28-2007, 01:02 AM
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02-28-2007, 01:02 AM
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Is ANYONE on this board going to tell me with a straight face that Slats and Fraser's last 10 years of drafting would be better than what Lowe and Prendergast will get us??? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I do have more faith in the current regime's drafting than in the latter part of Slats's tenue. Even despite the fact that Slats managed to pluck players like Arnott and Smyth and Satan and Vyborny and Devereaux and Poti and Rucinsky, and Lowe's hung up high picks on guys like Niinimaki and Mikhnov and Doug Lynch.

But Slats could trade like no one else in the business. His eye for NHL talent was unparalleled.

You say this new "rebuild" is definitely going to produce better results.

Smyth-Weight-Guerin
Moreau-Comrie-Cleary
Grier-Marchant-Murray

Brewer-Smith
Poti-Ninnimaa

Joseph

Horcoff was there. Kilger. Laraque. Heck, even Ray Whitney was hanging around. That cluster, right around the millenium, give or take a few months, right off the upsets of Dallas and Colorado.

That was a pretty good rebuild. Playoff success, strong nucleus, Weight and Guerin clicking amazingly. If we only made the changes we wanted to, instead of being forced to make them because we had to, how would that team have looked...say right before the lockout year?

And it took, what...7-10 years to get to that point where YES, we had it. We were about to be back.

And then... Joseph gone to UFA. Guerin gone for Carter. Weight gone for a package. Etc. Right when they were coming together, dismantled. Necessarily, but it hurt. And we were back to mediocrity.

You guarantee this rebuild will be better? You can't guarantee poop. Because not only was that rebuild pretty good, but it took years and years of trial and error and misfiring. You can nail the scouting to the wall, but the prospect game IS trial and error. No matter who your scouts are.

You're telling us that Robert Nilsson won't be Mats Lindgren? That Schremp won't be Bonsingoire? That Ryan O'Marra WILL develop into a Keith Primeau type and not a Joe Hulbig? That Ladislav Smid is guaranteed to capitalize on his potential and not just flirt with it like Brewer or Niinimaa before him? That Matt Greene will become Brendan Witt and not Sean Brown?

Even the best drafting teams in the league wind up blowing first round picks on Jeff Jillsons and Lukas Kaspars.

Hey man, if you *know* this rebuild is gonna be so much better, you're wasting your talents on the internet. Because our 90's drudgery ultimately produced what could have been a pretty awesome team, and who knows how long it'll take for the Oilers to come out with something like that. Free Agency could be good to us and the young talent could deliver and it could be just a matter of months. Or it could be a long, tough haul.

Nobody knows. The only thing a pack of prospects and picks guarantees is uncertainty.

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02-28-2007, 01:06 AM
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But hey, there is something to be said for optimism.

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02-28-2007, 01:06 AM
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Bryanbryoil
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Truth be told since '96 this team was never re-built, it was continually built to be cheap and try to quailify for 1 round of the play-offs to keep the team in Edmonton. Now is the closest that we've been to a re-build since the early 90's. The difference is that Lowe's drafting will be what makes or breaks us, I've been pleased with the results of the past 3 drafts after the first few flakey drafts that he had.

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