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Potential for a Big Deal This Summer

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Old
02-27-2007, 11:19 PM
  #26
Asiaoil
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Pisani is one of the only guys on the Oilers (Hemmer is the other) who consistently improves his linemates. Basically put any defensive suspect with Pisani and they become adequate to good at ES. Sure he's overpaid by about $500,000 since most other UFA guys who are similar are paid about $2 million - but none of them were the leading scorer in the playoffs either. I'd also argue that Pisani should be our 2nd line RW to get the best value for his contract - but our lack of any other defensively responsible RW forced us to play him on the 3rd line a lot more this season and this undercut his scoring - plus he's had personal issues. So maybe Lowe signs Pisani in Jan 06 and maybe he never goes on his playoff run - maybe maybe maybe. Fact is Pisani earned the team a hell of a lot of money through his goalscoring and some of it stuck to him - good for Pisani.

Lupul is - however - a prime contract we could deal for a big dollar elite player. Horcoff is in the same boat although I see his value more than Lupul's right now. Dealing Lupul and another prospect or a first round pick for Hossa would work for me. Again - we now have lots of cap space to do this stuff and Hossa is one hell of an upgrade on Smyth. We have enough complimentary wingers, decent centers and a good but aging goalie on this team - Smyth would have just given us more of what we already have in spades (complimentary wingers). We need a game breaking forward or a top pair dman with some offense in his game - that's money much better spent.

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02-27-2007, 11:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Asiaoil View Post
Lupul is - however - a prime contract we could deal for a big dollar elite player. Horcoff is in the same boat although I see his value more than Lupul's right now. Dealing Lupul and another prospect or a first round pick for Hossa would work for me. Again - we now have lots of cap space to do this stuff and Hossa is one hell of an upgrade on Smyth. We have enough complimentary wingers, decent centers and a good but aging goalie on this team - Smyth would have just given us more of what we already have in spades (complimentary wingers). We need a game breaking forward or a top pair dman with some offense in his game - that's money much better spent.
agree completely... the problem is finding that game-breaking player.... i know your just using that hossa deal as an example and you dont really think we could get him for that, but then where *do* we get an elite player? we can try to overpay in the UFA market, but there is no garantee of getting the player we want (and if history has taught us anything, we *wont* be able to get the players we want).... we can try to trade for one, but we'd have to severely over-pay, as no team is going to trade us their 27 year old superstar for a couple pucks.... or we can draft one, but to do so you either have to get VERY lucky with a mid-late 1st round pick, or you have to draft in the top-3 (and the oilers have never in their history drafted in the top 3)

everybody is right when they say "if we use the 5.5 million + 1 million more to sign a truly elite player, this trade will look good".... that is very true, but the chances of this happening are practically zero

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02-27-2007, 11:36 PM
  #28
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What kind a dummy

would give us anything for Lupul? He's getting paid and he sucks. I know he's 23 and he sucks but he gets soft mintues and he sucks.

And keep on waiting for Lowe to make that big splash boys!!! He lucked out with Pronger and he picked up Peca because we had money to burn. So the only way we're getting anyone is on a massive overpay, and then I can't wait to read the reaction of the fools that didn't want to give 94 his paper, or if we pick up a huge salary.

Friends, how many times has Lowe justified your love

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02-27-2007, 11:37 PM
  #29
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agree completely... the problem is finding that game-breaking player.... i know your just using that hossa deal as an example and you dont really think we could get him for that, but then where *do* we get an elite player? we can try to overpay in the UFA market, but there is no garantee of getting the player we want (and if history has taught us anything, we *wont* be able to get the players we want).... we can try to trade for one, but we'd have to severely over-pay, as no team is going to trade us their 27 year old superstar for a couple pucks.... or we can draft one, but to do so you either have to get VERY lucky with a mid-late 1st round pick, or you have to draft in the top-3 (and the oilers have never in their history drafted in the top 3)

everybody is right when they say "if we use the 5.5 million + 1 million more to sign a truly elite player, this trade will look good".... that is very true, but the chances of this happening are practically zero
Not zero at all - the exact scenario happened last year with Pronger and I look for a similar sort of thing again. Too bad he had to have his personal issues here rather than in St Louis but that doesnt change the fact that we signed/traded for an elite player in the recent past

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02-27-2007, 11:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Matts View Post
would give us anything for Lupul? He's getting paid and he sucks. I know he's 23 and he sucks but he gets soft mintues and he sucks.

And keep on waiting for Lowe to make that big splash boys!!! He lucked out with Pronger and he picked up Peca because we had money to burn. So the only way we're getting anyone is on a massive overpay, and then I can't wait to read the reaction of the fools that didn't want to give 94 his paper, or if we pick up a huge salary.

Friends, how many times has Lowe justified your love
Well I would qualify anyone who wants to give a fringe Team Canada player (by definition good but not great) almost $6 million a year for service between the ages of 31-36 as a fool - label fits n'est pas?

Lowe did his job last year (slow getting a goalie but at least he got the right one) and accomplished what you are now saying he can never do - just a bit of a contradiction there......I can admit that and everyone knows I'm no Lowe booster either.

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02-27-2007, 11:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
would give us anything for Lupul? He's getting paid and he sucks. I know he's 23 and he sucks but he gets soft mintues and he sucks.

And keep on waiting for Lowe to make that big splash boys!!! He lucked out with Pronger and he picked up Peca because we had money to burn. So the only way we're getting anyone is on a massive overpay, and then I can't wait to read the reaction of the fools that didn't want to give 94 his paper, or if we pick up a huge salary.

Friends, how many times has Lowe justified your love
Matts, does this mean you'll disappear into irrelevance again if Lowe proves you wrong?

For 3 years you sat here trumpeting that you were always right, and how Lowe couldn't make the big move, and how he had a 30 year rebuilding plan that we all bought into.

Funny, he trades for Pronger, Peca, Spacek, Tarnstrom, Roloson, Samsonov and magically you've disappeared out of sight and into blogger land. So the big deal that he couldn't make he made (several times over).

And he lucked out with Pronger? You mean he identified a quality player and went after him?

Couldn't by the same token I sit here and say that he got unlucky with the fact that Pronger wanted to be traded to only San Jose and Anaheim?

He can make the big deal... he's alread proven it. And I'm sure when he does it again, you'll go back to being irrelevant.

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02-27-2007, 11:51 PM
  #32
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This team has no identity without Smytty. We are going to be a bad team for 2-3 years (see St Louis and Columbus). We have the talent, just no heart. If tonight is any indication, this team is going nowhere fast. I can't believe Lowe dropped the ball on Smyth. How do you drop the ball on your franchise player and make Steve Staios and Ethan Moreau priorities before him? He can overpay for Roli, Pisser, and Horc, but he can't spend an extra 500 K on Smytty? Im one of the most optomistic fans on this board, but it hurt to watch this team tonight. Hemmer looks disinterested, Horc and Pisser try but can't finish. Lupes and Raffi continue to disapoint. I just can't find any positives from anything this year. I seriously hate K Lowe right now, and he should be out of a job.

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02-27-2007, 11:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Asiaoil View Post
Not zero at all - the exact scenario happened last year with Pronger and I look for a similar sort of thing again. Too bad he had to have his personal issues here rather than in St Louis but that doesnt change the fact that we signed/traded for an elite player in the recent past
we can all agree that the pronger deal was a "once in a lifetime" deal.... the blues were getting rid of salary and we happened along and got lucky.... unless we can find another team in cap trouble who (for some crazy reason) no longer wants their franchise player anymore, the draft is the only way we are getting an elite player (other than severely overpaying for a UFA player or severely overpaying in a trade for one)

so yeah, it did indeed happen once, but that was under special circumstances the likes of which we might never see again (a bloated team trying to cut salary to operate under a new CBA)

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02-27-2007, 11:56 PM
  #34
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And cap space only means something if you can actually land the UFA's. Anyone who thinks we will land a elite player through UFA is dreaming. We had our all star who wanted to play here, and we shipped him for some prospects, who most likely will never amount to half of what Smytty meant to this franchise.

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02-28-2007, 12:01 AM
  #35
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Haha..I figured it wouldn't take you long:)

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Matts, does this mean you'll disappear into irrelevance again if Lowe proves you wrong?

For 3 years you sat here trumpeting that you were always right, and how Lowe couldn't make the big move, and how he had a 30 year rebuilding plan that we all bought into.

Funny, he trades for Pronger, Peca, Spacek, Tarnstrom, Roloson, Samsonov and magically you've disappeared out of sight and into blogger land. So the big deal that he couldn't make he made (several times over).

And he lucked out with Pronger? You mean he identified a quality player and went after him?

Couldn't by the same token I sit here and say that he got unlucky with the fact that Pronger wanted to be traded to only San Jose and Anaheim?

He can make the big deal... he's alread proven it. And I'm sure when he does it again, you'll go back to being irrelevant.

I come back on your turf and eventually you break

I think Lowe lucked out on the Pronger deal and he picked up Peca because he had the money to do so. Spacek was a great trade but is it the big quanity for quality that all you guys seem to clamour for and expect? Tarnstrom isn't a great deal because he was damaged goods. Roli was pretty good but he damn near waited too long on that one. Want to argue on that? Samsamonv was no great shakes at the end of the deal. Decent gamble

But this big trade that you're all waiting for. It was Pronger and that was it. And that wasnt a small one but one deal...in the 17 year plan I think I always said 17 years right? Seems like something you'd keep an eye on.

As for being irrelevant, I guess that's your opinion. I think the blogs are where it's at these days. It was awhile before I came back here but I figured I'd take a look.

Good to see that sometimes yeah, you can go "home" again

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02-28-2007, 12:02 AM
  #36
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Sir

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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
we can all agree that the pronger deal was a "once in a lifetime" deal.... the blues were getting rid of salary and we happened along and got lucky.... unless we can find another team in cap trouble who (for some crazy reason) no longer wants their franchise player anymore, the draft is the only way we are getting an elite player (other than severely overpaying for a UFA player or severely overpaying in a trade for one)

so yeah, it did indeed happen once, but that was under special circumstances the likes of which we might never see again (a bloated team trying to cut salary to operate under a new CBA)
I would suggest you disappear

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02-28-2007, 12:03 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TheGreatone94 View Post
And cap space only means something if you can actually land the UFA's. Anyone who thinks we will land a elite player through UFA is dreaming. We had our all star who wanted to play here, and we shipped him for some prospects, who most likely will never amount to half of what Smytty meant to this franchise.
thats the thing.... with us getting rid of smyth, it actually makes edmonton a *less* attractive destination for UFAs.... what lowe showed today was that if you come to the oilers and do well, your reward will be that you get traded (again i agree that smyth was asking for too much, but im talking about the optics of this trade around the league with the other players)

people who think we're gonna land 2 (hell, even 1) big-name UFA player are freaking *dreaming*.... what evidence could you possibly have for us being able to lure a big name UFA player away from another team? we couldnt do it last year and we were offering the same money as other teams were, why will be able to do it this year? mark my words.... come august, we're going to be heading into the 08-09 season without any big name players and a budget somewhere between 20th-30th overall... we'll hear lowe talk about how "they tried luring timonen and we made a very good offer to phillips, but we werent prepared to pay the high prices these players were asking. we will go into the season with lots of cap space left, which will allow us to add players throughout the year if we need to"

mark my words, this *will* be what we're hearing come august

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02-28-2007, 12:06 AM
  #38
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I would suggest you disappear
haha, man... if i could just turn a switch off in my head that made me not care about this team, i would do it.... thats how little faith i have in our current management and ownership .... but such a switch doesnt exist, so i guess ill just continue to suffer

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02-28-2007, 12:09 AM
  #39
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people who think we're gonna land 2 (hell, even 1) big-name UFA player are freaking *dreaming*.... what evidence could you possibly have for us being able to lure a big name UFA player away from another team? we couldnt do it last year and we were offering the same money as other teams were, why will be able to do it this year?
I doubt that is the case. The only name that we know he went after was Chara, and offered him 7M. He went for 7.5M.

Spacek is the only guy we know was offered the same amount of money, but chose to go elsewhere (to a real contender).

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mark my words.... come august, we're going to be heading into the 08-09 season without any big name players and a budget somewhere between 20th-30th overall... we'll hear lowe talk about how "they tried luring timonen and we made a very good offer to phillips, but we werent prepared to pay the high prices these players were asking. we will go into the season with lots of cap space left, which will allow us to add players throughout the year if we need to"

mark my words, this *will* be what we're hearing come august
I hope that isn't the case, but wouldn't be surprised.

We'll have 4-6M in cap space for acquisitions in mid season (Just like this year, right?)

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02-28-2007, 12:10 AM
  #40
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This team has some serious issues, starting with the management. If you are going to pinch pennies as much as our owners do, you shouldn't own a sports franchise, plain and simple. Oh, but dont worry, Scott Hartnell will more than replace Smyth in the offseason...

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02-28-2007, 12:11 AM
  #41
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this isn't gonna make some people happy;)

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thats the thing.... with us getting rid of smyth, it actually makes edmonton a *less* attractive destination for UFAs.... what lowe showed today was that if you come to the oilers and do well, your reward will be that you get traded (again i agree that smyth was asking for too much, but im talking about the optics of this trade around the league with the other players)

people who think we're gonna land 2 (hell, even 1) big-name UFA player are freaking *dreaming*.... what evidence could you possibly have for us being able to lure a big name UFA player away from another team? we couldnt do it last year and we were offering the same money as other teams were, why will be able to do it this year? mark my words.... come august, we're going to be heading into the 08-09 season without any big name players and a budget somewhere between 20th-30th overall... we'll hear lowe talk about how "they tried luring timonen and we made a very good offer to phillips, but we werent prepared to pay the high prices these players were asking. we will go into the season with lots of cap space left, which will allow us to add players throughout the year if we need to"

mark my words, this *will* be what we're hearing come august
but I've said the Oilers credo is "excuses in lieu of victories." Right now Lowe is pimping the Oilers getting into the '07 FA market but if that falls through, and there's no reason to believe that it won't, then we'll hear how close we were, ie Chara last year, but doggone it we couldn't get it done!!! If you had to overpay Smyth a little, then do it. At least the man liked it here and that's more than most. Some guys won't come here because of the travelm ie Spacek, and some guys hate it here, ie Hecht, so right off the bat you're behind the eight-ball. So if you know that then how do you let a guy go that wants to be here in the first friggin place?

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02-28-2007, 12:12 AM
  #42
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We're paying Lupul 2.9 million for next year!! That's gut wrenching.
He's 24.

24 year old men are not known throughout the universe for effort and consistency.

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02-28-2007, 12:13 AM
  #43
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I'm just kidding

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haha, man... if i could just turn a switch off in my head that made me not care about this team, i would do it.... thats how little faith i have in our current management and ownership .... but such a switch doesnt exist, so i guess ill just continue to suffer
I'd quit on this team if I could too. I'm just chiding you over being chided myself for not toeing the company line.

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02-28-2007, 12:16 AM
  #44
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I come back on your turf and eventually you break

I think Lowe lucked out on the Pronger deal and he picked up Peca because he had the money to do so. Spacek was a great trade but is it the big quanity for quality that all you guys seem to clamour for and expect? Tarnstrom isn't a great deal because he was damaged goods. Roli was pretty good but he damn near waited too long on that one. Want to argue on that? Samsamonv was no great shakes at the end of the deal. Decent gamble
How did he luck out on Pronger? He took advantage of a situation and made the deal you said he couldn't do. And he picked up Peca because he felt Peca would be a good addition to the team. Whether he had the money to or not is irrelevant is it not?

And while neither the Spacek or Tarnstrom deals were quantity for quality, they were still deals that addressed needs on the club.

As for Roloson, I said it then and I'll say it now... up until the deadline, the Wild (and most teams with a rumoured available goaltender), had no reason to deal a goaltender sooner than that. Why would Minny trade a goaltender to a division rival? I don't think it's waiting too long to make a deal when you make the right deal the first chance you can.

And while Samsonov basically no-showed the last 2 rounds, he was pretty instrumental getting us to the point where we made the last 2 rounds.

Quote:
But this big trade that you're all waiting for. It was Pronger and that was it. And that wasnt a small one but one deal...in the 17 year plan I think I always said 17 years right? Seems like something you'd keep an eye on.
First, it was that he couldn't make the big trade, now it's he could only make that one, but there's no way he'll do it again.

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As for being irrelevant, I guess that's your opinion. I think the blogs are where it's at these days. It was awhile before I came back here but I figured I'd take a look.
Yeah, I noticed you missed the whole year where Lowe was proving you wrong, and waited until you could comeback and say "Hey look at me, I'm right again".

Not that I'm shocked... I had always figured you'd disappear from here until you had a reason to complain about something. Can't say I was too wrong about that one.

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Good to see that sometimes yeah, you can go "home" again
Not if all you do is keep bringing your dirty laundry.

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02-28-2007, 12:17 AM
  #45
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I'd quit on this team if I could too. I'm just chiding you over being chided myself for not toeing the company line.
yeah i know

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02-28-2007, 12:18 AM
  #46
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I'd quit on this team if I could too. I'm just chiding you over being chided myself for not toeing the company line.
No, you got chided for talking crap, being wrong, disappearing while it was happening, then coming back with the same bag of goodies.

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02-28-2007, 12:19 AM
  #47
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Hello blind Oiler faithful. We have money now for free agents. So bloody what. NOBODY will sign in Edmonton and the only hope is through the draft and trades (then people hold out anyways). Sad to be an Oiler fan these days. Really, really sad.All the new NHL has done is let free agents pick where they want to go, and Siberia it aint. get used to it. This team will always be mediocre. I am not a troll. i am a realist.

And what in the hell is Petr Sykora still doing on this team?

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02-28-2007, 12:21 AM
  #48
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HOORAY!

we have more money saved that we won't spend on real talent, more mediocre prospects who may never contribute at the NHL level, and more draft picks to waste...nice to see nothing changes with the Oiler organization!

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02-28-2007, 12:22 AM
  #49
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Hello blind Oiler faithful. We have money now for free agents. So bloody what. NOBODY will sign in Edmonton and the only hope is through the draft and trades (then people hold out anyways). Sad to be an Oiler fan these days. Really, really sad.All the new NHL has done is let free agents pick where they want to go, and Siberia it aint. get used to it. This team will always be mediocre. I am not a troll. i am a realist.

And what in the hell is Petr Sykora still doing on this team?
We had money for free agents last summer. We've had money for free agents all season. Fat lot of good that did us.

As was said in another thread, the new CBA was supposed to be about us finally being able to keep our star players. What happens? We trade them for futures. Again and again and again.

Hate.

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02-28-2007, 12:22 AM
  #50
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I don't look at it as missing

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How did he luck out on Pronger? He took advantage of a situation and made the deal you said he couldn't do. And he picked up Peca because he felt Peca would be a good addition to the team. Whether he had the money to or not is irrelevant is it not?

And while neither the Spacek or Tarnstrom deals were quantity for quality, they were still deals that addressed needs on the club.

As for Roloson, I said it then and I'll say it now... up until the deadline, the Wild (and most teams with a rumoured available goaltender), had no reason to deal a goaltender sooner than that. Why would Minny trade a goaltender to a division rival? I don't think it's waiting too long to make a deal when you make the right deal the first chance you can.

And while Samsonov basically no-showed the last 2 rounds, he was pretty instrumental getting us to the point where we made the last 2 rounds.



First, it was that he couldn't make the big trade, now it's he could only make that one, but there's no way he'll do it again.



Yeah, I noticed you missed the whole year where Lowe was proving you wrong, and waited until you could comeback and say "Hey look at me, I'm right again".

Not that I'm shocked... I had always figured you'd disappear from here until you had a reason to complain about something. Can't say I was too wrong about that one.



Not if all you do is keep bringing your dirty laundry.
I thought Lowe did a heckuva job on Spacek for instance. Jumped early and indentified a guy who made a really difference for long stretches of his tenure as an Oiler. Tarnstrom was hurt when they got him. Samsanov had one game really..G6 vs Det. It was worth a gamble but it wasn't awe-inspiring. I will disagree and say Lowe got lucky on Roli because he did wait so long and if the Dys hadn't didn a total tankjob the Oilers wouldn't have made the playoffs in the first place. Roli wound up being great but the Oilers were keeping a lot of shots to the outside as well and Roli was brutal at times down the stretch when he was blowing the rust off. And hey I geeked out on the Pronger deal. Maybe not here but certianly on IOF and I just assume everyone checks all the diff Oilers spots online anyway. Or at least I do

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