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Old
02-28-2007, 10:11 AM
  #26
Hemskyfanboy83
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Originally Posted by The Rage View Post
A shadow of a player compared to Weight? Please. Weight needed soft minutes and PP time to get points, and even still wasn't a great ES player going by his ES goal differential. Smyth produces with tough minutes.
Didn't Weight and Smyth used to play on the same line? How could one get soft minutes and not the other one.

Also, Ryan Smyth relies a lot on the PP as well, as do Hemsky, Crosby, Kovalchuk. Nothing wrong with getting lots of points on the PP.

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02-28-2007, 10:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by canadave View Post
OK, I'm confused. Didn't Lowe go to pains to say "it wasn't a financial decision [to trade Smyth]...it was a hockey decision"? It sounds like it wasn't money that was the issue, but rather that they wanted to go with some sort of youth movement as part of what LaForge calls "the plan."
I think that what Lowe means is that it's not a matter of not being able to afford Smyth, but that it would be a bad move for the organization to allocate so much of their cap space to a player like Smyth. In a capped league, financial and hockey decisions are very tightly intertwined - much more so than the pre-CBA world.

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02-28-2007, 10:15 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Reason View Post
What a classless move by Stauffer, kick Smyth in the backside on his way out, Smyth took a "hometown discount" a couple of times, either the Oilers pay him a few extra bucks this time around, or let him go when they decide that they can't afford it anymore (which is what they did), franchise first player second.
But quotes like this (particularly at this time) by Stauffer serve no real purpose. Complete lack of class, pointless and borderline hearsay. This is the kind of garbage that gives credence to those stupid rumors that players (UFA's) don't want to come here.
You're getting a wee bit over-emotional here. Stauffer's job is to report sports news. There's nothing "classless" about doing so.

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02-28-2007, 10:16 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by rec28 View Post
I think that what Lowe means is that it's not a matter of not being able to afford Smyth, but that it would be a bad move for the organization to allocate so much of their cap space to a player like Smyth. In a capped league, financial and hockey decisions are very tightly intertwined - much more so than the pre-CBA world.
That's almost word-for-word what I was just about to post. Needless to say, I agree.

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02-28-2007, 10:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AM View Post
The difference is Ryan Smyth wanted to be paid because he was the "franchise player".

Thats a bad precidence to set.
Weight had a 104 point season - Smyth's career high is 70. Shadow of a player.

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02-28-2007, 10:32 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by rec28 View Post
You're getting a wee bit over-emotional here. Stauffer's job is to report sports news. There's nothing "classless" about doing so.
No emotion at all actually, just saying that quotes like this serve only one purpose and it is debatable to say that this info is even news at all, just hearsay.

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02-28-2007, 10:33 AM
  #32
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The more I think about it, the more I pissed I become at Lowe. What in the HELL was he thinking, offering a contract like that?!? Again, thank God Smyth didn't accept...

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02-28-2007, 10:34 AM
  #33
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I wonder what deal would of been if he was traded to the Ducks or Sharks?
Smyth and the 2 1st for
Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan
or
Michalek, Carle and Bernier

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02-28-2007, 10:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by noice View Post
I wonder what deal would of been if he was traded to the Ducks or Sharks?
Smyth and the 2 1st for
Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan
or
Michalek, Carle and Bernier
Not a chance on either of those trades. The Ducks and Sharks aren't stupid.

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02-28-2007, 10:36 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by noice View Post
I wonder what deal would of been if he was traded to the Ducks or Sharks?
Smyth and the 2 1st for
Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan
More like Smyth and 2 1sts for Getzlaf IMO.

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02-28-2007, 10:36 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason View Post
No emotion at all actually, just saying that quotes like this serve only one purpose and it is debatable to say that this info is even news at all, just hearsay.
What purpose is that? On a day where a player like Smyth was traded due to the fact that the two sides couldn't reach a financial agreement you think Stauffer needs an ulterior motive to dicuss the figures being negotiated? It's the most natural thing in the world, imo...

And, as a media "insider" with legitimate connections, I think it's fair to say that his claims amount to more than heresay.

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Old
02-28-2007, 10:38 AM
  #37
noice
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But good job Lowe for trading to a team that's barely in the playoffs

Lets go Habs and Leafs

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02-28-2007, 10:52 AM
  #38
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My biggest concern about the Smyth problem now is that if he re-signs with the Islanders, it will probably be something like 5.5+. While I don't really care how much he makes or if he stays with the Isles, it could set a huge precedent for UFA signings this summer.

Hopefully he holds out until the summer before deciding where to sign so we could sign other players at a reasonable price before a potential inflation occurs after a Smyth signing.

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02-28-2007, 11:03 AM
  #39
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There was clearly some bad blood going on there.

If these were some good faith negotiations, you'd think one side would compromise the extra $350,000 (that's half a Toby Petersen for crap's sake) at the last minute to get the deal done. Both sides dug in their heels and wouldn't move.

I suspect the relationship between the Oilers and Smyth soured in the off-season when Lowe lobwalled Smyth while caving to the outrageous demands of Pisani, Roloson, etc. When it came time to negotiate, Smyth wasn't going to move an inch, especially after having such a great season.

Also, is anyone else considering the possibility that the EIG are the cheapest ownership congolomeratae in history? I think Lowe may be taking the fall for the owners who simply won't spend money.

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02-28-2007, 11:04 AM
  #40
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Didn't I also hear that Meehan was somewhat surprised himself that Smyth rejected the offer? That's the impression I got from Tencer's blog this morning but I may have misread.

From Tencer's blog:

It was such a nice contract that I believe Don Meehan let it slip out to a couple of different sources that the deal was going to get done.

So if all this is true, then it all Smyth.

I'm less upset with Lowe that I was yesterday (mostly also because I hated the fact that the Oilers became sellers and no playoffs this year) but I stioll have trouble with what he got. I think I will need some convincing.

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02-28-2007, 11:08 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
There was clearly some bad blood going on there.

If these were some good faith negotiations, you'd think one side would compromise the extra $350,000 (that's half a Toby Petersen for crap's sake) at the last minute to get the deal done. Both sides dug in their heels and wouldn't move.
If you've already moved as much as you think you can, or more than you want to, then I don't necessarily think it's bad blood, but different interpretations. Meehan said there was nothing in terms of bad feelings, just a general disagreement on several issues that were important to both parties. It happens all the time where you want to come to an agreement with someone, but that doesn't mean you sacrifice everything you feel is right to do it.

Quote:
I suspect the relationship between the Oilers and Smyth soured in the off-season when Lowe lobwalled Smyth while caving to the outrageous demands of Pisani, Roloson, etc. When it came time to negotiate, Smyth wasn't going to move an inch, especially after having such a great season.
At the time, Pisani and Roloson had full leverage. And right now Smyth did. As for Roloson's demands being outrageous... that's simply ridiculous. He was a quality goaltender who had been very solid over the past 4 years. Compared to any of the other goaltenders available, this was easily the best decision.

Quote:
Also, is anyone else considering the possibility that the EIG are the cheapest ownership congolomeratae in history? I think Lowe may be taking the fall for the owners who simply won't spend money.
In history?

A little extreme maybe?

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02-28-2007, 11:10 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Also, is anyone else considering the possibility that the EIG are the cheapest ownership congolomeratae in history? I think Lowe may be taking the fall for the owners who simply won't spend money.
I think there will be a bunch of Hawk fans who'll disagree with you a little.

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02-28-2007, 11:14 AM
  #43
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This is a quote from Lowe as per pipeline email...

Following today’s trade, Oilers General
Manager, Kevin Lowe said “I want to be
very clear that making this trade today is a
hockey decision. It was not financial. The
CBA we operate with in the NHL today
means you need to have a sound hockey
strategy and stick to it. Today we turned a
page for sure – but this is not as much about
the Oilers today, but what we continue to do
as part of an overall plan.

People who think smyth is worth 5.5 + really need to think about it.
That money is better spent IMHO. Somebody called Tencer last night and said if smyth is your best player you will be a Mediocre team....i kind of agree.
Last year a man named Chris Pronger was out best player, not smyth...the years we have had him as our best player we have been well .....Mediocre
Every team in the league needs a player like Smyth, but a cost that works for them. and Im sure some GM will give him his 6m, but im glad it was not the oilers.

I for 1 stand up and applaud you Mr Kevin Lowe

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Old
02-28-2007, 11:23 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by rec28 View Post
What purpose is that? On a day where a player like Smyth was traded due to the fact that the two sides couldn't reach a financial agreement you think Stauffer needs an ulterior motive to dicuss the figures being negotiated? It's the most natural thing in the world, imo...

And, as a media "insider" with legitimate connections, I think it's fair to say that his claims amount to more than heresay.
In financial matters I reserve the right to not make a decision until I hear from one or both of the parties involved. Then, I only try to determine if I think the person is being truthful or not. Hell, there are all sorts of "media insiders with connections" out there who throw stuff at the wall.
In the summer Smyth will get what the market decides, maybe even in Edmonton.
I was just pointing out that over the last year or so we started hearing rumblings that players don't want to come here (true or not we have all heard them) and situations and comments like these can only add steam to these rumblings.
Stauffers comment about the "final offer" only serve to defend Lowe and put a "bad light" on Smyth. Smyth has taken his home town discount, been great for the organization and has always handled himself with class. This time it was the Oilers turn to decide to give him a few extra bucks or let him go. They decided to let him go. And immediately Stauffer comes out and starts throwing numbers around, the timinging wasn't the classiest. Just my opinion, not yours.

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Old
02-28-2007, 11:29 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Walsher View Post
Take a walk Smyth. I don't care where he resigns, but I hope it is not here. That is unrealistic under the length and he is not worth near that. Meehan and SMyth must be believing their own propaganda. Glad to see him go if that is the deal he wants. There are better, bigger, more skilled fish in the sea. That makes me 100% supportive of Lowe. I will boo Ryan Smyth - others did for Doug Weight, Gretzky, etc. Smyth is shadow of a player to those, and with that demand, up to the 11th hour with good faith bargaining from Lowe, Smyth can walk and I don't really feel for him. Smyth made his bed, now sleep in the doo doo that is his decision. He will never be as valued and loved elsewhere as he was in this City.
Sure Smitty and lowe couldnt get a deal done in time but give smyth some credit Hes been an oiler for 12 years hes taken numerous hometown discounts and hes the face and center of this franchise. Lowe should have paid him what he wanted whether thats 4 million or 6 million. The cap could be going up this year so they could afford him and the oilers owe him after all hes done to this team and to edmonton. Smyths gone but when he returns to edm with a new team the last thing he should come home to is boos.

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02-28-2007, 11:33 AM
  #46
canadave
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
There was clearly some bad blood going on there.

If these were some good faith negotiations, you'd think one side would compromise the extra $350,000 (that's half a Toby Petersen for crap's sake) at the last minute to get the deal done. Both sides dug in their heels and wouldn't move.

I suspect the relationship between the Oilers and Smyth soured in the off-season when Lowe lobwalled Smyth while caving to the outrageous demands of Pisani, Roloson, etc. When it came time to negotiate, Smyth wasn't going to move an inch, especially after having such a great season.

Also, is anyone else considering the possibility that the EIG are the cheapest ownership congolomeratae in history? I think Lowe may be taking the fall for the owners who simply won't spend money.
I'm inclined to agree with just about everything said here--excellent points.

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02-28-2007, 12:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I'm pissed that Smyth isn't an Oiler, but I would've been even more pissed if Lowe didn't trade him, and Smyth walked in the summer. I'm also pretty sure I would've also been more pissed than I am now if Lowe gave into his demands and ended up paying him close to $6M.

I think Meehan overestimated the value of Ryan Smyth's popularity.
Agree 100% - would've been some harsh words for Lowe (why did he let Smyth go for nothing??) in the summer if Smytty signed somewhere else, and maybe harsher words if he had agreed to a 5- or 6-year deal at even $5.5M, as that would've put a serious dent into what Lowe could do for the rest of the team.

It hurts, but after the last game of the season, we'll be better off by having gotten 3 decent assets for a guy who was likely going to sign elsewhere anyway (and yeah, someone out there will likely take a chance on Smyth and give him the big bucks for a long term).

I also have a feeling that Lowe is stockpiling assets to help make a splash either at the draft table (by moving up, or trading picks for good players) or in the trade arena in the off-season.

I guess we'll see, but I believe Lowe did the right thing when it was clear that Smyth's contract demands were going to be too much. Also believe that Meehan and Smyth didn't expect him to be traded when they couldn't come to (last-minute) terms... Hopefully Ryan comes around after the season and can agree to a 3-year deal to be an Oiler again.

Bart

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Old
02-28-2007, 12:48 PM
  #48
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I think that what Lowe means is that it's not a matter of not being able to afford Smyth, but that it would be a bad move for the organization to allocate so much of their cap space to a player like Smyth. In a capped league, financial and hockey decisions are very tightly intertwined - much more so than the pre-CBA world.


I know what you're saying here, and what KLowe means. I really don't blame him for trading Smyth. What does bug me is why isn't Horcoff a bad allocation of funds? What about Pisani? Watch and see if Horcoff gets another 5 goals this year I'll be really surprised. This is worth3.6 million? Pisani's 12 goals are worth2.5 million? If they are talking about rebuilding then ****in rebuild. Get rid of Sykora, Horcoff, Pisani, Markannen, Roloson, and bring up the kids. Don't pay Horcoff a unrealistic amount of money, because he's a mirror image of what your coach used to be, and wants all his players to be, yet don't pay Smyth to a fair amount. And no I'm not talking about the negotiations yesterday. I'm talking about when he signed Smyth to the 3.6 million amount. Why didn't he pay him 4 million a year, over 4 years then? 10 months later Horcoff is worth 3.6, but Smyth wasn't worth 4?. He had the chance to totally rebuild, at astronomical prices teams were willing to pay yesterday, yet all he could do was trade Smyth? So what about losing Sykora as an UFA this summer? That doesn't matter that we lose him for nothing, but we had to get fair value for Smyth? If you're tanking the season, which when you trade your highest scorer, is pretty obvious you're doing just that, then trade the whole ****in works. If you're confident you can replace a guy like Smyth with a UFA this upcoming year then you should easily be able to replace a overpaid Horcoff, a underachieving Sykora, A all heart no hands Pisani. All these guys should have been dealt, or at least Sykora, Markannen, and if there was interest I would send Horcoff packing too. If you're restocking the shelves with prospects then restock big time, not just your main player. You should get as many prospects as you can for all the underachieving anchors that have been on this team this year. Don't do a job half-fast. And for the arguments that will come saying he was too busy worrying about Smyth to be able to do that, then Klowe should be canned. He should have had a plan in place that if Ryan couldn't be signed, he would have homes for all these guys.


**** am I pissed that we have to wait another 7-8 years before this team is ready to compete again. Yes that's right 7-8 years. You've all seen how effective the Oilers have been at getting UFA's. Oh ya there's trades. We can trade Cog's, Schremp, and Chorney for Glen Murray. Prospects don't really seem to have a whole lot of value right now. The only way we'll be competetive is to raise our own stars, and with 13-15 round picks that isn't going to happen. And even with all these prospects we have how many are going to be decent NHL'ers? I remember all the hype here about how good Winchester is going to be, Mihknov was going to be the second coming, Schremp (better the Malkin, remeber that report?). How many of them are going to pan out? Now these two guys Nillson and O'Marra, doesn't seem to be too many guys crying over them at the NY Isles board, as they were both pretty early cuts at camp this year. What are they going to do here if they had no defensive prowness good enough for Ted Nolan? Do you think they'll even see the ice here with MacT? They might it'll be just like Mihknov 9 ****in minutes of NHL ice time and anther pick thrown into the *******. I'm really ****ing tired of waiting for the next batch of prospects to grow only to see them go to greener pastures. Yup another 7-8 years before we compete again, only this time they do it without any money from this household. I'm through spending my hard earned cash, only to be told we have to wait for another 7-8 years. **** I'm more pissed today then I was yesterday.

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02-28-2007, 01:05 PM
  #49
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OilRick - I can understand your sentiments, but I think you might feel different in a day or two --- or even over the summer as reality sets in and the facts have a chance to reveal themselves.

All is not what it seems.

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02-28-2007, 01:14 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by philc9 View Post
Sure Smitty and lowe couldnt get a deal done in time but give smyth some credit Hes been an oiler for 12 years hes taken numerous hometown discounts and hes the face and center of this franchise. Lowe should have paid him what he wanted whether thats 4 million or 6 million. The cap could be going up this year so they could afford him and the oilers owe him after all hes done to this team and to edmonton. Smyths gone but when he returns to edm with a new team the last thing he should come home to is boos.


I am glad you are an Oilers fan.

On the other hand I am also glad you are not the Oilers' GM.

Those that are trashing the EIG as being "cheap" need to get it through their heads. This wasn't about salary - it was about managing the salary cap. If you are paying $6 million to a 60-70 point player, you are going to be icing an average team.

I am as big a Ryan Smyth fan as anyone, but if these numbers being reported are correct then I am glad Lowe made the tough decision. The right decision, as far as I am concerned.

And I am really tired of hearing the "Smyth has taken hometown discounts in the past" comments. He has NOT. As an RFA he signed his last two contracts as he was walking into the arbitrator's office. That is not taking a discount, it is called playing hardball.

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