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Old
02-28-2007, 08:52 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald78 View Post
maybe stating the obvious here but none of this makes me too optimistic about smyth being resigned to edmonton in the summer. why would any of these issues be any less relevant then? if anything he'll be getting crazy offers then and his price will only go up. i was somewhat encouraged by how emotional smyth seemed about leaving, but now not so much. but the way lowe is making it sound makes me think the issues won't change at all come summer time.
They might be less relevant if Smyth doesn't find any takers on July 1st for what he wants.

Either that or maybe the Oilers do something that convinces them that they are more willing to move up from their current stance.

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02-28-2007, 09:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They might be less relevant if Smyth doesn't find any takers on July 1st for what he wants.

Either that or maybe the Oilers do something that convinces them that they are more willing to move up from their current stance.
Getting three assests might make them be willing to be a little more flexible, like Smyth alone isn't worth it, but Smyth+the extra 1st rounder, and two pretty good prospects might be.

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02-28-2007, 09:18 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Getting three assests might make them be willing to be a little more flexible, like Smyth alone isn't worth it, but Smyth+the extra 1st rounder, and two pretty good prospects might be.
Interesting take on that...I hadn't considered that before.

Signing Smyth before the trade deadline means a big fat (long) contract.

This way we *might* get Smyth (and hopefully a slimmer, shorter contract?) and still have these extra assets acquired by trading him.

I heard some of the Lowe interview live - nice summary posted earlier. Nice hints dropped by Lowe, so we'll see what he does later...

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02-28-2007, 11:45 PM
  #54
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Is everyone here forgetting about the EIG's budget?

We can blue-sky here all we want and believe all of Lowe's ideas and musings and hope for a better day. I for one think that a Horc-Smid plus Ana's 1st for Richards is a deal that TB shouldn't turn down for reasons like it saves him a few mill, he doesn't have a lot of young D in the pipe and he could use the saved money to find a linemate for Horc or grab another D. Plus Horc is pretty damn good.

or Lowe could deal Lupul-Greene plus Edm's 1st for Pitkanen.

And I haven't listened to the Stauffer thing but the one thing he can't ask right now but someone will need to ask come the summer is just what kind of budget is Lowe gonna have? Kevin's in damage control now and offering out all these nuggets that believe him or the EIG can do no wrong and that the next Pronger is just around the table and that everyone else is due to have the screws put to them. And if we picked up Richards and Pitkanen for the proposals above then I would be elated.

But maybe the money just isn't there. I've given it to Lowe over the years but I know it's not his money that he's hoarding either. he has a budget and how and why that's set and just how geninue it is in terms of overall fiscal wherewithal is someone hardly anyone can agree on but nevertheless there's a limit to what the Oilers can spend.

And that's why Stauffer and everyone else should keep in mind.

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Old
03-01-2007, 12:27 AM
  #55
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if Sam Gagner is available when its our turn to pick.. im sure philly will consider trading Pitkanen for a combo like Smid + 1st

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03-01-2007, 12:37 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
We can blue-sky here all we want and believe all of Lowe's ideas and musings and hope for a better day. I for one think that a Horc-Smid plus Ana's 1st for Richards is a deal that TB shouldn't turn down for reasons like it saves him a few mill, he doesn't have a lot of young D in the pipe and he could use the saved money to find a linemate for Horc or grab another D. Plus Horc is pretty damn good.

or Lowe could deal Lupul-Greene plus Edm's 1st for Pitkanen.

And I haven't listened to the Stauffer thing but the one thing he can't ask right now but someone will need to ask come the summer is just what kind of budget is Lowe gonna have? Kevin's in damage control now and offering out all these nuggets that believe him or the EIG can do no wrong and that the next Pronger is just around the table and that everyone else is due to have the screws put to them. And if we picked up Richards and Pitkanen for the proposals above then I would be elated.

But maybe the money just isn't there. I've given it to Lowe over the years but I know it's not his money that he's hoarding either. he has a budget and how and why that's set and just how geninue it is in terms of overall fiscal wherewithal is someone hardly anyone can agree on but nevertheless there's a limit to what the Oilers can spend.

And that's why Stauffer and everyone else should keep in mind.

If the Edmonton Oilers traded Pronger, missed the playoffs and then traded Ryan Smyth to prepare to go on the cheap this summer this entire thing will blow up. Seriously. You're about to see at least two levels of government bent over the hood here.

This town won't take it, not after the 90s and Sather telling us we should be happy to even have a team. That cup run gave a whole new group a taste of what success can do, and while people of reason can be convinced that a Smyth trade was needed because the dollars could be better spent on a player with greater impact, not bringing in said player and crying poor will not fly imo.

I do not agree with those who state the EIG are the devil, but my argument holds no water if summer comes and once again it's 2001.

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03-01-2007, 03:05 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
If the Edmonton Oilers traded Pronger, missed the playoffs and then traded Ryan Smyth to prepare to go on the cheap this summer this entire thing will blow up. Seriously. You're about to see at least two levels of government bent over the hood here.

This town won't take it, not after the 90s and Sather telling us we should be happy to even have a team. That cup run gave a whole new group a taste of what success can do, and while people of reason can be convinced that a Smyth trade was needed because the dollars could be better spent on a player with greater impact, not bringing in said player and crying poor will not fly imo.

I do not agree with those who state the EIG are the devil, but my argument holds no water if summer comes and once again it's 2001.
I agree, I don't think that Lowe could sell a total re-build. That said, we don't need a complete re-build. As guys like Schremp, Jacques, Nilsson, etc mature and are NHL ready we can afford to deal some of teh guys that they'll replace. Or we could dea; said prospects and a few roster players for some key cogs. That said, IMO expecting a Cup run next year is moronic. Expecting to make the play-offs and maybe winning a round or 2 is more realistic and IMO almost a must to keep the Oilers faithful from rioting.

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Old
03-01-2007, 12:26 PM
  #58
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I guess we shall see about that

it's funny how no one outside of you two touched my post. Maybe most guys have me on ignore I don't know but I'd say the bigger truth is that people don't want to read the truth. Lowe has made one quanity for quality trade, damn straight it was a good one but he's made one. ONE. 71 is the only close to impact guy that came here cold, ie not having played here before. The ONLY one. Yet now Lowe all of a sudden has the ability, the money, and the city of edm the allure, to turn that reality on it's head? Who wants to bet on that being even possible.

And LT don't tell me about fans rioting or saying enough is enough. I guess it happened in the mid '90's or whatever but the EIG is pretty much untouchable in your city and so is Lowe for that matter. Because did the EIG tell Lowe to trade for a guy that won't be fit to watch for another two years, ie Smid, and a garbage soft guy who scores goals but still comes up a minus playing soft mintues, ie Lupul. Someone's to blame for that but no one's taking it.

When you see how Lowe handled the Pronger and Smyth situations and what he got back for them and people aren't staying away in droves or aren't booing their heads off then how can you say that the fans won't take it? The fans will take it, they have taken it and they are still taking it.

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03-01-2007, 02:15 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
We can blue-sky here all we want and believe all of Lowe's ideas and musings and hope for a better day. I for one think that a Horc-Smid plus Ana's 1st for Richards is a deal that TB shouldn't turn down for reasons like it saves him a few mill, he doesn't have a lot of young D in the pipe and he could use the saved money to find a linemate for Horc or grab another D. Plus Horc is pretty damn good.

or Lowe could deal Lupul-Greene plus Edm's 1st for Pitkanen.

And I haven't listened to the Stauffer thing but the one thing he can't ask right now but someone will need to ask come the summer is just what kind of budget is Lowe gonna have? Kevin's in damage control now and offering out all these nuggets that believe him or the EIG can do no wrong and that the next Pronger is just around the table and that everyone else is due to have the screws put to them. And if we picked up Richards and Pitkanen for the proposals above then I would be elated.

But maybe the money just isn't there. I've given it to Lowe over the years but I know it's not his money that he's hoarding either. he has a budget and how and why that's set and just how geninue it is in terms of overall fiscal wherewithal is someone hardly anyone can agree on but nevertheless there's a limit to what the Oilers can spend.

And that's why Stauffer and everyone else should keep in mind.
Well actually the Oilers have a pile of young D. Trouble is that they are too young. We have Chorny, Grebby, Gilbert, Greene, Petry, Syvret, Smid, Roy and probably afew more that I missed. Most are going to be NHL d-men, not elite like frankeneuf, or Pitkanen, but more then servicable.

I really doubt Philly will trade Pitkanen. Unless we really overpay whay would they? They are in full blown rebuild mold, whether they want to admit it or not. Why would they want to sell one of the premier young D-men in the league, when they are rebuilding?

As far as the Richards deal, why would they do that? If they wouldn't pay Smyth 5.5 million, they wouldn't pay Richards 7.8 million. Is he really worth 2.3 million more then Smyth? IMHO he isn't, and I'm a big Richards fan. He's grossly overpaid, and if anyone here thinks Ryan played hardball, look at Richards track record at signing.

IMHO they will allow KLOwe to spend to anywhere from 38-40 million next year. I highly doubt he'll even spend to it though. Look at the recent track record at getting UFA's. He'll have to really overpay to get anyone here, and as we've seen KLowe and or EIG aren't willing to do that. So we'll grow with our youngsters only to see some of them leave for greener pastures. The only thing is to go after RFA's, but they still have to sign the offer sheet, and it might limit your ability to trade later. Face it we're in rebuild mode whether we want to admit it or not.

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03-01-2007, 02:22 PM
  #60
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Sounds pretty promising...

I'm expecting a big deal or active FA season Kevin. If we do well this summer, we could be laughing. If Lowe fails this summer, we could be pretty hurtin' next year and Lowe should be fired.

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03-01-2007, 02:25 PM
  #61
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Exactly. I'll reserve judgment until the offseason.

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03-01-2007, 02:43 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald78 View Post
maybe stating the obvious here but none of this makes me too optimistic about smyth being resigned to edmonton in the summer. why would any of these issues be any less relevant then? if anything he'll be getting crazy offers then and his price will only go up. i was somewhat encouraged by how emotional smyth seemed about leaving, but now not so much. but the way lowe is making it sound makes me think the issues won't change at all come summer time.
Agreed. Listening to Lowe on the Team 1260 last night, no matter how many tears were shed at Smyth's press conference, I will be shocked beyond belief if Smyth re-signs with the Oil. He made it clear that he and his agent believe he is a $5.5 million/yr player. Lowe made it clear that either he believes Smyth is not worth that OR he thinks that a $5.5 million Ryan Smyth does not fit into the Oilers cap strategy.

Lowe said that Smyth would not move from the $5.5 million number. Reports are now coming out that the Oilers came up from $5 million to $5.4 and Smyth still would not budge. Lowe was not comfortable with 5 years either, he wanted 4, but Lowe went to 5. PLUS he gave him a NTC, something Lowe has not done for any other player.

Smyth and his agent demanded the moon and then gambled that Lowe would not have the onions to trade him... and Smyth lost that gamble.

One thing Stauffer said after the Lowe interview last night was to watch for teams that will be pushing against the cap ceiling that end up having a quick playoff exit. I think if we can identify teams that might need cap relief AND are looking at making some changes due to a poor playoff performance (or not making the playoffs, I guess) then we might have an idea about possible trading partners.

As as aside, after what went down the last couple of days, I just can't see Lowe agreeing to pay ANY forward $7+ million in the near future. I think if he goes to those numbers it will be for an elite d-man and no one else.

This is a solid thread......

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Old
03-01-2007, 02:57 PM
  #63
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First off...

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Originally Posted by OilRick View Post
Well actually the Oilers have a pile of young D. Trouble is that they are too young. We have Chorny, Grebby, Gilbert, Greene, Petry, Syvret, Smid, Roy and probably afew more that I missed. Most are going to be NHL d-men, not elite like frankeneuf, or Pitkanen, but more then servicable.

I really doubt Philly will trade Pitkanen. Unless we really overpay whay would they? They are in full blown rebuild mold, whether they want to admit it or not. Why would they want to sell one of the premier young D-men in the league, when they are rebuilding?

As far as the Richards deal, why would they do that? If they wouldn't pay Smyth 5.5 million, they wouldn't pay Richards 7.8 million. Is he really worth 2.3 million more then Smyth? IMHO he isn't, and I'm a big Richards fan. He's grossly overpaid, and if anyone here thinks Ryan played hardball, look at Richards track record at signing.

IMHO they will allow KLOwe to spend to anywhere from 38-40 million next year. I highly doubt he'll even spend to it though. Look at the recent track record at getting UFA's. He'll have to really overpay to get anyone here, and as we've seen KLowe and or EIG aren't willing to do that. So we'll grow with our youngsters only to see some of them leave for greener pastures. The only thing is to go after RFA's, but they still have to sign the offer sheet, and it might limit your ability to trade later. Face it we're in rebuild mode whether we want to admit it or not.
do you happen to be Rickards from the oil Oilfans board?

Secondly, you're preaching to the choir here my friend. I know we're rebuilding and I knew that from the time of the awful Pronger return. And I know it's gonna be hard for Lowe to make any trades and sign anyone and that the elephant in the room is that the EIG has a budget that has nothing to do with the NHL's salary cap. Some guys here don't want to accept reality though and I'd like to get a list of everyone who's reserving judgement until the summer passes.

In return I will come here and say that Lowe did a good job trading quanity for quality...but only if he does a good job. I'll have no problem saying that. But it just makes me sad to see all the people here have faith in a mgmt and org that has done very little in terms of player procurement to earn faith

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03-01-2007, 03:03 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
do you happen to be Rickards from the oil Oilfans board?

Secondly, you're preaching to the choir here my friend. I know we're rebuilding and I knew that from the time of the awful Pronger return. And I know it's gonna be hard for Lowe to make any trades and sign anyone and that the elephant in the room is that the EIG has a budget that has nothing to do with the NHL's salary cap. Some guys here don't want to accept reality though and I'd like to get a list of everyone who's reserving judgement until the summer passes.

In return I will come here and say that Lowe did a good job trading quanity for quality...but only if he does a good job. I'll have no problem saying that. But it just makes me sad to see all the people here have faith in a mgmt and org that has done very little in terms of player procurement to earn faith
We all know that don't we?

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03-01-2007, 03:14 PM
  #65
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Secondly, you're preaching to the choir here my friend. I know we're rebuilding and I knew that from the time of the awful Pronger return. And I know it's gonna be hard for Lowe to make any trades and sign anyone and that the elephant in the room is that the EIG has a budget that has nothing to do with the NHL's salary cap. Some guys here don't want to accept reality though and I'd like to get a list of everyone who's reserving judgement until the summer passes.
There's me.


If the Oilers make what I see as bad moves because of the EIG budget, then my support for the team declines.

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03-01-2007, 03:21 PM
  #66
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I doubt very much that Kevin Lowe will want to open the Pandora's box of RFA raiding, with the Oilers playing with a more limited budget, Lowe would leave his team open for free agent raids by 29 other teams in the NHL who right now could outbid Lowe for tasty morsels.

He'd be smart to stick to trades and UFA's

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03-01-2007, 03:38 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
do you happen to be Rickards from the oil Oilfans board?

Secondly, you're preaching to the choir here my friend. I know we're rebuilding and I knew that from the time of the awful Pronger return. And I know it's gonna be hard for Lowe to make any trades and sign anyone and that the elephant in the room is that the EIG has a budget that has nothing to do with the NHL's salary cap. Some guys here don't want to accept reality though and I'd like to get a list of everyone who's reserving judgement until the summer passes.

In return I will come here and say that Lowe did a good job trading quanity for quality...but only if he does a good job. I'll have no problem saying that. But it just makes me sad to see all the people here have faith in a mgmt and org that has done very little in terms of player procurement to earn faith
No, I'm OiRick everysite I go to. Unless I've been in camp for a month and go to some unsavoury sites then I pick a name outta the blue. .


The biggest trouble is the closest thing to a franchise player that we had this year (Ya I know everyone will be hollaring about Hemsky, but he isn't there yet, and might never get to the point of being there) we just ditched for yet more prospects. And ya Nillson and Schremp will be lighting it up and we'll all be mesmorised about how they'll take over all of Greztky's records, we have no need to aquire an elite player, because he's waiting in the wings. Then he'll get here play 10 minutes, and that'll be the last we see of them. I've seen this record played way too often.

Unfortuanately this is the only scenareo that IMHO will work for us. UFA's don't seem to want to come here, RFA's still have to sign the sheet and want to come here. The only way they'll want to come here is to throw a boatload of money at them, and as they've shown, right or wrong (and IMHO I believe they are right) they aren't willing to do it. It seems we're in the never ending saga of developing for the future, the future never seems to be now.

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03-01-2007, 03:45 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
I doubt very much that Kevin Lowe will want to open the Pandora's box of RFA raiding, with the Oilers playing with a more limited budget, Lowe would leave his team open for free agent raids by 29 other teams in the NHL who right now could outbid Lowe for tasty morsels.

He'd be smart to stick to trades and UFA's
Agree 100%. For all his talk about raiding RFA's I don't believe it'll be an option. The only thing I believe they might do would be to go after Iggy this summer (I believe he's a UFA this summer). I don't believe the Oilers care if they **** over the Flames. Butt that would be the only team they'd do that too. But Iggy would still have to agree to come here. Unless just for an example Anaheim doesn't win it all, the young players all expect significant raises as what happened to us. They can't afford a Getzlaf (just as an example) we trade Schremp plus for him. That's the only other way I see us aquiring players RFA through trade. But what team wants to trade RFA's?

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03-01-2007, 03:47 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
I doubt very much that Kevin Lowe will want to open the Pandora's box of RFA raiding, with the Oilers playing with a more limited budget, Lowe would leave his team open for free agent raids by 29 other teams in the NHL who right now could outbid Lowe for tasty morsels.

He'd be smart to stick to trades and UFA's
You mean he's not going to send an offer sheet to Crosby?

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03-01-2007, 04:01 PM
  #70
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You might know

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We all know that don't we?
but a lot of people buying Lowe's early 94 departure bluster seems to forget that the EIG will raise ticket prices, they will increase the number of PPV games and they will fail to spend money to make the the playoffs and make more money the year after they enjoyed playoff gates.

So yes they're gonna open it up and sign UFA's

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03-01-2007, 04:15 PM
  #71
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I heard that the Oilers get last choice for which games are PPV, and as a result just picked the ones that otherwise would not have been televised.

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03-01-2007, 04:33 PM
  #72
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Exactly. I'll reserve judgment until the offseason.
Yes same here. It all depends on what Lowe does in the Summer and what we have on the ice opening night.

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03-01-2007, 08:34 PM
  #73
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Quote:
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When you see how Lowe handled the Pronger and Smyth situations and what he got back for them and people aren't staying away in droves or aren't booing their heads off then how can you say that the fans won't take it? The fans will take it, they have taken it and they are still taking it.
I disagree. A whole new generation of Oiler fan (the ones since the Marchant OT goal) got to see the other side of the mountain and were stopped just short of the promised land.

Lowe has a tremendous amount of pressure on him. I believe that.

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03-01-2007, 08:41 PM
  #74
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I disagree. A whole new generation of Oiler fan (the ones since the Marchant OT goal) got to see the other side of the mountain and were stopped just short of the promised land.

Lowe has a tremendous amount of pressure on him. I believe that.
I am one of those fans...

I totally believe in Lowe, but don't blow it this summer...

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03-01-2007, 09:02 PM
  #75
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where's the pressure Lain?

Quote:
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I disagree. A whole new generation of Oiler fan (the ones since the Marchant OT goal) got to see the other side of the mountain and were stopped just short of the promised land.

Lowe has a tremendous amount of pressure on him. I believe that.
???

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