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Old
03-01-2007, 03:15 PM
  #26
jcoldwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevefromYellowstone View Post
He's an elite goal scorer because in the 2 years since the CBA he is 15th in scoring, after playing less games than some on the list.

All you people saying this was the better way are probably bandwagon, i have been watching Smyth since he started playing with the Oilers and i would have given him 5.7 without a doubt.
I am sorry but Ryan Smyth is not an elite goal scorer. He has yet to register 40 goals, or better yet 50 goals.

An elite goal scorer gets 40+ goals every year. Ryan's most goals in a season is 39. So please tell me how he is an elite goal scorer.

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03-01-2007, 03:20 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
I am sorry but Ryan Smyth is not an elite goal scorer. He has yet to register 40 goals, or better yet 50 goals.

An elite goal scorer gets 40+ goals every year. Ryan's most goals in a season is 39. So please tell me how he is an elite goal scorer.
so according to your logic who do you think is an elite goal scorer?

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03-01-2007, 03:29 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevefromYellowstone View Post
so according to your logic who do you think is an elite goal scorer?
Just to name a few...

Dany Heatley
Teemu Selanne
Alexandre Ovechkin
Simon Gagne
Ilya Kovalchuk
Jerome Iginla
Evgeni Malkin (in the making)
Brendan Shanahan
Glen Murray
Joe Sakic
Jaromir Jagr

Is that enough or should I name more.

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03-01-2007, 03:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
Just to name a few...

Dany Heatley
Teemu Selanne
Alexandre Ovechkin
Simon Gagne
Ilya Kovalchuk
Jerome Iginla
Evgeni Malkin (in the making)
Brendan Shanahan
Glen Murray
Joe Sakic
Jaromir Jagr

Is that enough or should I name more.
Gagne, 02 - 03 only had 9 goals in 46 games which is not on pace for over 40
in 03-04 he only had 24 goals in 80

so using your logic he's not on that list

Malkin, not yet so lets take him off the list

Selanne, from 2000-2004 did not have a season over 30, so once again your logic takes him off your list.

Sakic probably isn't going to be over 40 this year so take him off


I could keep going but I won't. My point is, every one has off years and Smyth deserves to be up there with those guy's because of his post-CBA success and because he's ahead of a good portion of those guy's in scoring as we speak.

Smyth right now is 16th in goals, Ahead of Iginla, Murray, Sakic, Malkin, Shanahan (all on your list).

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03-01-2007, 03:58 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevefromYellowstone View Post
Gagne, 02 - 03 only had 9 goals in 46 games which is not on pace for over 40
in 03-04 he only had 24 goals in 80

so using your logic he's not on that list

Malkin, not yet so lets take him off the list

Selanne, from 2000-2004 did not have a season over 30, so once again your logic takes him off your list.

Sakic probably isn't going to be over 40 this year so take him off


I could keep going but I won't. My point is, every one has off years and Smyth deserves to be up there with those guy's because of his post-CBA success and because he's ahead of a good portion of those guy's in scoring as we speak.

Smyth right now is 16th in goals, Ahead of Iginla, Murray, Sakic, Malkin, Shanahan (all on your list).
Look at their career totals and look at Smyth's. Smyth can't even hold any of those players jock strap when scoring goals. I will repeat Ryan Smyth's best season was 39 goals and that was 96/97. So please explain how Ryan is an elite goal scorer.

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03-01-2007, 04:03 PM
  #31
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A look at Ryan's goal totals year by year.

Ryan goal totals each year...I won't count 94/95 as he only played 3 games

95/96 2
96/97 39
97/98 20
98/99 13
99/00 28
00/01 31
01/02 15
02/03 27
03/04 23
04/05 N/A
05/06 36

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Old
03-01-2007, 04:06 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
So please explain how Ryan is an elite goal scorer.

I did explain MY OPINION on the subject

"Smyth deserves to be up there with those guy's because of his post-CBA success and because he's ahead of a good portion of those guy's in scoring as we speak"

too many keyboard arguments on here the last couple of days

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Old
03-01-2007, 04:21 PM
  #33
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Wow... I, who even am not an Oiler fan and hated the Oilers last season after you beat the Sharks in the playoffs... I get really pissed at the Oilers management right now.

Their first priority should've been Smyth, not Hemsky, not Horcoff and not Pisani.

I'd pay the guy 6, especially when comparing to market value and the other players mentioned.

A few 100k is ridicilous for a player of his calibre... the Oilers should've given him what he wanted. Smyth was underpaid for sure. He plays the game the way it should be played. With intensity and heart, to boot he's one heck of a player. I would want him on my team without a doubt. I think players like him are getting very rare with the "new NHL" and all. The thing is that he adapted to that as well.

Now, unless there's something that is hidden with all of this, I will never ever understand this trade - unless Ryan Smyth signs with you guys in the offseason for 6 or something - which he deserves.

But something tells me that perhaps Smyth is done and over with the Oilers.. I dunno. I know you guys hope he's not though. Anyway, I wish him the best with the Islanders... hopefully he won't damage the Penguins too much.

I can't even imagine how YOU guys feel, when consider I, a non-Oiler fan, am this disappointed.

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Old
03-01-2007, 04:34 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuriken View Post
Wow... I, who even am not an Oiler fan and hated the Oilers last season after you beat the Sharks in the playoffs... I get really pissed at the Oilers management right now.

Their first priority should've been Smyth, not Hemsky, not Horcoff and not Pisani.

I'd pay the guy 6, especially when comparing to market value and the other players mentioned.

A few 100k is ridicilous for a player of his calibre... the Oilers should've given him what he wanted. Smyth was underpaid for sure. He plays the game the way it should be played. With intensity and heart, to boot he's one heck of a player. I would want him on my team without a doubt. I think players like him are getting very rare with the "new NHL" and all. The thing is that he adapted to that as well.

Now, unless there's something that is hidden with all of this, I will never ever understand this trade - unless Ryan Smyth signs with you guys in the offseason for 6 or something - which he deserves.

But something tells me that perhaps Smyth is done and over with the Oilers.. I dunno. I know you guys hope he's not though. Anyway, I wish him the best with the Islanders... hopefully he won't damage the Penguins too much.

I can't even imagine how YOU guys feel, when consider I, a non-Oiler fan, am this disappointed.
Most people here have written him off.

Probably people that have never played hockey or been on a team.

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Old
03-01-2007, 04:35 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerOlli View Post
I can't understand all the talks about that the Oilers Organization didn't show Smyth enough respect.
They offered him 5,4 mil/year, or what!!!
If that is not enough for Smyth you should rather question the other side...
100% agree.

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Old
03-01-2007, 04:50 PM
  #36
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I also wonder where this myth that smyth has been underpayed his entire career came from. 7 million over 2 years for a player who had 59 points in the previous year seems like anything other than a home-town discount. Everyone is criticizing lowe for not budging, but he already budged from 5 to 5.4, Smyth wouldn't budge in the slightest, for Lowe he tried to find a middle ground, for Smyth and Meehan, there was no middle ground, it was going to only be there way, thats BS. Point out goals all you want but a point is a point whether it be an assist or a goal, and Smyth has never until this year (surprise, surprise a contract year for a UFA) put up anything close to a ppg, he has never been in the top 20 in scoring, hell, has he ever been in the top 50? Using that guys list of forwards drafted around smyth.

Ryan Smyth 770 GP 265 G 284 A 549 P (0.344 gpg 0.713 ppg)
Paul Kariya 804 GP 362 G 491 A 853 P (0.45 gpg 1.06 ppg)
Jarome Iginla 761 GP 315 G 327 A 642 P (0.414gpg 0.844 ppg)
Saku Koivu 634 GP 155 G 362 A 517 P (0.244 gpg 0.815 ppg)
Daniel Alffreddson 765 GP 284 G 452 A 736 P (0.371 gpg 0.962 ppg)
Jason Allison 552 GP 154 G 331 A 485 P (0.279 gpg 0.879 ppg)
Jason Arnott 877 GP 297 G 393 A 690 P (0.339 gpg 0.788 ppg)
Pavol Demitra 666 GP 260 G 369 A 629 P (0.390 gpg 0.944 ppg)
Chris Gratton 990 GP 202 G 332 A 534 P (0.204 gpg 0.539 ppg)
Todd Bertuzzi 717 GP 224 G 312 A 536 P (0.312 gpg 0.748 ppg)
Patrik Elias 658 GP 243 G 320 A 563 P (0.369 gpg 0.856 ppg)
Jeff Friesen 877 GP 215 G 298 A 513 P (0.245 gpg 0.585 ppg)
Miro Satan 849 GP 315 G 315 A 630 P (0.371 gpg 0.743 ppg)
Petr Sykora 746 GP 245 G 316 A 561 P (0.328 gpg 0.752 ppg)
Radek Bonk 811 GP 168 G 271 A 439 P (0.207 gpg 0.541 ppg)
Shane Doan 784 GP 192 G 265 A 457 P (0.245 gpg 0.583 ppg)
Steve Sullivan 723 GP 228 G 349 A 577 P (0.315 gpg 0.798 ppg)
Milan Hejduk 606 GP 245 G 279 A 524 P (0.404 gpg 0.865 ppg)

Bolded players are players with a higher point per game rate over there career, and underlined players are players with a higher goals per game over there career. 13 player with better ppg rates, and 7 players with better gpg rates. Based on these numbers wouldn't you think it makes sense that Smyth should be one of the lesser payed players over time. And for those that say Smyth has intangibles, lets not forget, that for most of smyths early career, he was basically PP only, and terrible at everything else, it wasn't until relatively recently that smyth became a very good pker, and ev.

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03-01-2007, 05:14 PM
  #37
ThisInsecureMoron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I also wonder where this myth that smyth has been underpayed his entire career came from. 7 million over 2 years for a player who had 59 points in the previous year seems like anything other than a home-town discount. Everyone is criticizing lowe for not budging, but he already budged from 5 to 5.4, Smyth wouldn't budge in the slightest, for Lowe he tried to find a middle ground, for Smyth and Meehan, there was no middle ground, it was going to only be there way, thats BS. Point out goals all you want but a point is a point whether it be an assist or a goal, and Smyth has never until this year (surprise, surprise a contract year for a UFA) put up anything close to a ppg, he has never been in the top 20 in scoring, hell, has he ever been in the top 50? Using that guys list of forwards drafted around smyth.

Ryan Smyth 770 GP 265 G 284 A 549 P (0.344 gpg 0.713 ppg)
Paul Kariya 804 GP 362 G 491 A 853 P (0.45 gpg 1.06 ppg)
Jarome Iginla 761 GP 315 G 327 A 642 P (0.414gpg 0.844 ppg)
Saku Koivu 634 GP 155 G 362 A 517 P (0.244 gpg 0.815 ppg)
Daniel Alffreddson 765 GP 284 G 452 A 736 P (0.371 gpg 0.962 ppg)
Jason Allison 552 GP 154 G 331 A 485 P (0.279 gpg 0.879 ppg)
Jason Arnott 877 GP 297 G 393 A 690 P (0.339 gpg 0.788 ppg)
Pavol Demitra 666 GP 260 G 369 A 629 P (0.390 gpg 0.944 ppg)
Chris Gratton 990 GP 202 G 332 A 534 P (0.204 gpg 0.539 ppg)
Todd Bertuzzi 717 GP 224 G 312 A 536 P (0.312 gpg 0.748 ppg)
Patrik Elias 658 GP 243 G 320 A 563 P (0.369 gpg 0.856 ppg)
Jeff Friesen 877 GP 215 G 298 A 513 P (0.245 gpg 0.585 ppg)
Miro Satan 849 GP 315 G 315 A 630 P (0.371 gpg 0.743 ppg)
Petr Sykora 746 GP 245 G 316 A 561 P (0.328 gpg 0.752 ppg)
Radek Bonk 811 GP 168 G 271 A 439 P (0.207 gpg 0.541 ppg)
Shane Doan 784 GP 192 G 265 A 457 P (0.245 gpg 0.583 ppg)
Steve Sullivan 723 GP 228 G 349 A 577 P (0.315 gpg 0.798 ppg)
Milan Hejduk 606 GP 245 G 279 A 524 P (0.404 gpg 0.865 ppg)

Bolded players are players with a higher point per game rate over there career, and underlined players are players with a higher goals per game over there career. 13 player with better ppg rates, and 7 players with better gpg rates. Based on these numbers wouldn't you think it makes sense that Smyth should be one of the lesser payed players over time. And for those that say Smyth has intangibles, lets not forget, that for most of smyths early career, he was basically PP only, and terrible at everything else, it wasn't until relatively recently that smyth became a very good pker, and ev.
Jesus christ are you insane?

It's not just about the frickin points. NO one, NOT ONE single one of those players you've listed does the OTHER things that Ryan Smyth does out there. You know, in hockey there's MORE than just scoring and passing.

I think your post is ignorant and kind of dumb. You can't compare those guys to Smyth.


Last edited by ThisInsecureMoron: 03-01-2007 at 05:21 PM.
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Old
03-01-2007, 05:19 PM
  #38
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from tsn...

"He reportedly sought a five-year deal worth $5.4 million a season from Edmonton. Smyth denied reports he and the Oilers split because of a difference of $200,000 per season.

"That's not right. There is more to it than that. If that was true I would've ..," he said before catching himself. "

Perhaps the Length was the biggest Problem in the deal...or did Smyth want not 5,5 mil but 6 mil?
I don't know

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Old
03-01-2007, 05:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuriken View Post
Jesus christ are you insane?

It's not just about the frickin points. NO one, NOT ONE single one of those players you've listed does the OTHER things that Ryan Smyth does out there. You know, in hockey there's MORE than just scoring and passing.

I think your post is ignorant and kind of dumb. You can compare those guys to Smyth.
You call me insane? What you think Ryan Smyth is the only player with "heart" in the nhl? Give me a god damned break, Jarome iginla, the flames captain is the "heart and soul" of that city also. Koivu came back from CANCER to captain the montreal canadians. Alfreddson, Elias, captians of there team, theres this myth around smyth that he is the only player in the NHL that offers intangibles

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03-01-2007, 05:28 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuriken View Post
Jesus christ are you insane?

It's not just about the frickin points. NO one, NOT ONE single one of those players you've listed does the OTHER things that Ryan Smyth does out there. You know, in hockey there's MORE than just scoring and passing.

I think your post is ignorant and kind of dumb. You can't compare those guys to Smyth.
Just curious, but what exactly ARE these 'other things' that puts him above and beyond players like Jerome Iginla, Saku Koivu and Shane Doan?

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03-01-2007, 05:53 PM
  #41
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Just curious, but what exactly ARE these 'other things' that puts him above and beyond players like Jerome Iginla, Saku Koivu and Shane Doan?
A mullet. Everyone knows a guy like Koivu has no character...and Iginla and Doan can't possibly bring that intangibles that an Alberta guy like Smyth can.

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03-01-2007, 06:12 PM
  #42
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meh, another garbage article on a garbage website.

The deal Lowe gave Smyth was very fair, period. And I don't think Smyth is crazy or greedy. In the end, I think he probably received some bad advice, but I guess we'll see is Meehan is remains his agent.

People who criticize Lowe for this are uninformed.

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Old
03-01-2007, 06:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
A mullet. Everyone knows a guy like Koivu has no character...and Iginla and Doan can't possibly bring that intangibles that an Alberta guy like Smyth can.
Hahahaha Gold!

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Old
03-01-2007, 06:25 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuriken View Post
Jesus christ are you insane?

It's not just about the frickin points. NO one, NOT ONE single one of those players you've listed does the OTHER things that Ryan Smyth does out there. You know, in hockey there's MORE than just scoring and passing.

I think your post is ignorant and kind of dumb. You can't compare those guys to Smyth.
I don't have a player in mind, but there are many players who score about 20-30 more points then Smyth. Are the OTHER things Smyth does worth the 20-30 points he gives up? Probally not.

Smyth can not lead a team to the cup. He can ride shotgun and do it very well but he can't lead you there. If we had signed him to 5.5, he would have had to and he simply can't.

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03-01-2007, 06:27 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuriken View Post
Jesus christ are you insane?

It's not just about the frickin points. NO one, NOT ONE single one of those players you've listed does the OTHER things that Ryan Smyth does out there. You know, in hockey there's MORE than just scoring and passing.

I think your post is ignorant and kind of dumb. You can't compare those guys to Smyth.
BTW, I didn't make the comparison of these guys to smyth, I furthered the comparison that the guy in the blog had already made.

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Old
03-01-2007, 06:28 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=5946

Pretty good writeup about the lack of respect shown to Smytty.
Wow, just noticed that Jarret Smyth avatar you've got going. Making a statement?

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Old
03-01-2007, 06:48 PM
  #47
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Kevin Lowe, in my opinion, made a huge mistake trading Ryan Smyth.

Was he asking for a little too much money? Perhaps, but if you're going to overpay for a player, it might as well be the guy who's leading your team in scoring and would take multiple pucks to the face if it meant the team wins a game.

The only way you don't give in to his demands is if there's a match made in heaven deal available with another team in which you know you're getting something great back. What the Oilers got from the Islanders was not even close to great.

I compare this to the Hossa/Ottawa negotiations a few years ago. Hossa had taken had signed for less than he was worth in years past because of the Sens financial situation, but when they were finally able to spend some money, he wanted market value, and that meant 6 million. Muckler didn't want to give him that much, so he traded him to Atlanta for Dany Heatley, who's one of the top players in the game.
That was a great deal, and even though the Sens traded their best player, they got something great in return.

In interviews, Muckler has admitted that if Heatley had not asked for a trade at the same time as the Hossa contract talks, he would've swallowed his pride and given him 6 million, because you can't trade a player like that for question marks.

Kevin Lowe should've given Smyth the 5.5 million he wanted. Is it a slight overpayment? Probably, but who are you gonna get that'll contribute as much to the team as Smyth did for less? Pavel frickin Kubina got 5 million, so if Lowe thinks he'll be able to get a 35 goal, 75 point heart and soul, lay it all on the line type player for less than 5.5, he's in for a huge surprise.

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03-01-2007, 06:54 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerlova View Post
I don't have a player in mind, but there are many players who score about 20-30 more points then Smyth. Are the OTHER things Smyth does worth the 20-30 points he gives up? Probally not.

Smyth can not lead a team to the cup. He can ride shotgun and do it very well but he can't lead you there. If we had signed him to 5.5, he would have had to and he simply can't.
What star player are you going to get for less than 5.5 million? Even a guy who can ride shotgun?

Kubina got 5 million. McCabe got 5.75. Savard got 5. Richards got 7.8. Redden got 6.5.

Those guys aren't at the top of their positions either.

I'd love to see Kevin Lowe replace Smyth's scoring and leadership for under 5.5 million, because with the prices UFA's command, it's not gonna happen.

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03-01-2007, 06:55 PM
  #49
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Smyth just set up Sillinger for the 1st Islander goal.

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03-01-2007, 07:11 PM
  #50
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we all love Smyth, better than average but not a great player...look at what he actually does and doesn't do...all his goals are basically within 10 feet of the net and he mucks along the boards and runs a cycle well...thats great, but he doesn't dictate the pace of the game with any great speed, no big hits, no gloves ever drop, can't score from anywhere else in the offensive zone, doesn't set up anyone unless the pass is within 5 -10 feet away...doesn't do any of that but wants to get paid like he does....getting paid in the $4.75M range would have been perfect....but if you want to play hardball, you're gonna get beaned once in a while....

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