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Old
12-11-2003, 06:48 PM
  #1
LP
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future prospects?

I'm just wondering if the Edmonton Oilers have any native players for their prospects? I have some native pride in me looking forward to more NHL players of first nation.

I was recently watching some players develop lately.. I've compiled a list.

Murray Quewezance - Stealth speed, 100% sniper 12 G 13 A in 33 Games played.

Jeff "the big bopper" Langan - Likes to drop the gloves often, gets a good 6 minutes ice time per game. Very unique player

Berry Pelletier - fast skater, loves to shot the puck. 2 G 6 A in 28 GP

Shane Whitehawk - Good D man, doesn't put up the points but he is a +4 in 28 GP. He is your typical stay at home defenseman that will give you a good 13 minutes of ice time per game.

Also if anyone has heard of these prospects please add some more!

Just hopefully these guys make it to the NHL one day and show some pure first nation pride.

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12-11-2003, 06:52 PM
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I'm not a big fan of racial profiling in scouting.

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12-11-2003, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
I'm not a big fan of racial profiling in scouting.
Who said anything about racial profiling? These guys are the stars of the future.

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12-11-2003, 06:57 PM
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My issue is with identifying players by race. I think that's a terrible thing to do.

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12-11-2003, 06:59 PM
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There's a fella playing for Portland who's last name is Big Snake. I believe he is from the Siksika Nation just East of Calgary.

Racial profiling just means identifying players by their race instead of their hockey ability. I don't think anyone was calling you a racist if that's what you thought Lance.

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12-11-2003, 07:01 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
My issue is with identifying players by race. I think that's a terrible thing to do.
Well I'm first nation myself, so I don't think there is any problem with it. I live on the Keeseekoose First Nation reserve and many of my cousins and uncles relate to us people in the same way.

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12-11-2003, 07:01 PM
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Thanks, Guy. I just looked back, and I realize that my response looked accusatory, but it wasn't meant to be. Sorry if you took it as an attack.

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12-11-2003, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Peepeetch
Well I'm first nation myself, so I don't think there is any problem with it. I live on the Keeseekoose First Nation reserve and many of my cousins and uncles relate to us people in the same way.
Where are the players you mentioned playing? Are they midget aged or younger? Have they been drafted by WHL teams? Or do you expect any to in the future?

How about Wacey Rabbit of the Saskatoon Blades? I think I heard he's native, and eligible for the 2005 NHL draft.

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Old
12-11-2003, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Peepeetch
Well I'm first nation myself, so I don't think there is any problem with it. I live on the Keeseekoose First Nation reserve and many of my cousins and uncles relate to us people in the same way.
The point he is getting at is it seems ridiculous to point out that these players are of a certain ethnicity. I wouldn't report on a player simply because he is of white skin and Canadian ethnicity - to me it is strictly about hockey ability. Like another poster I too am curious about what level these players are currently at.

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Old
12-12-2003, 05:17 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Peepeetch
I'm just wondering if the Edmonton Oilers have any native players for their prospects? I have some native pride in me looking forward to more NHL players of first nation.

Just hopefully these guys make it to the NHL one day and show some pure first nation pride.
I spent some time in Eagle Lake, Ontario, (near where the Prongers got their starts), and hockey is pretty big among the Ishnabe (sp?). Guys like Nolan and Simon were pretty popular, judging by the Sabres & Caps hats & sweaters (back when they were affiliated with those teams).

It's funny, we're always seeing posts that say "Joe Dude is from Edmonton, let's get him on the Oilers!" Or, "Josef Dudczk is Czech, let's get him to play with Hemsky!" Or, "Jose Dudiene is a Quebec goaltender, he's gotta be good!" So, there is always some element of ethnic identity creeping into our board.

Funny how ethnic stereotypes are bad, but what if your stereotypes are positive? Example: Finns are scrappy and relentless, Russians are skilled & creative, Canucks are hardworking & gritty, etc.

I will say this: guys like Cheechoo, Simon (met him once, heck of a nice guy), and Souray are great role models for any kid, no matter where they're from.

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Old
12-12-2003, 06:27 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
The point he is getting at is it seems ridiculous to point out that these players are of a certain ethnicity. I wouldn't report on a player simply because he is of white skin and Canadian ethnicity - to me it is strictly about hockey ability. Like another poster I too am curious about what level these players are currently at.

Walsher, I usually like your posts, but you are off on this one. Are you telling me you don't follow Mike Weir, or Steve Nash a little bit more closely than other players because they are Canadian playing in non-Canadian dominated sports? Of course. There is no difference here - following a minority group (on whatever basis) in an area in which they are underrepresented. Let's not pretend that we are so objectivley detached from the game that the only reason we watch is "strictly about hockey ability". It is one thing to not judge on the basis of cultural, ethnic, religious, etc. characteristics. It is quite another to pretend that they don't exist, or that they are not relevant. Obviously in terms of "hockey skills" ethnicity is irrelevant, but in terms of community pride, fan involvement in the game, etc., it is highly relevant, interesting, and yes, even fun to follow individuals with the same interests, background, heritage as yourself. I would say it is anything BUT ridiculous.

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12-12-2003, 06:39 AM
  #12
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I would have to agree with Walser and Allan on this one.

Canada is a multicultural nation, and there isn't one color that represents our country. When i cheer for Nash and Weir it doesnt mean anything more than my Nationalistic pride. not racial ethnicity. Hell i cheer for Carter because he's the only reason why we have a basketball team in Canada. He single handedly sells seats that keep the Raptors afloat.

Point is, the original post was racially prolific. I wouldn't cheer Tootoo or Chechoo more if they were my color. I don't look around for Asian players in sports to cheer for because they're my color. Sports is about talent and ability. Let's keep it that way.

I don't Allan and Walser meant to be offensive at all. Don't mistake anything they said. It al depends on how you look at things.


Last edited by streetballer03: 12-12-2003 at 06:42 AM.
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Old
12-12-2003, 07:07 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetballer03
I would have to agree with Walser and Allan on this one.

Canada is a multicultural nation, and there isn't one color that represents our country. When i cheer for Nash and Weir it doesnt mean anything more than my Nationalistic pride. not racial ethnicity. Hell i cheer for Carter because he's the only reason why we have a basketball team in Canada. He single handedly sells seats that keep the Raptors afloat.

Point is, the original post was racially prolific. I wouldn't cheer Tootoo or Chechoo more if they were my color. I don't look around for Asian players in sports to cheer for because they're my color. Sports is about talent and ability. Let's keep it that way.

I don't Allan and Walser meant to be offensive at all. Don't mistake anything they said. It al depends on how you look at things.
You make a clear distinction between "ethnicity" and "nation", to justify why you can have "nationalistic pride" but apparently not "ethnic pride". First, it should be pointed out that for many people the distinction between "nation" and "ethnicity" doesn't exist - hence the term "First Nations". Second, since when is "ethnicity" something we shouldn't be proud of. I'm proud as can be of my heritage, and believe that it is important in constituting who I am. Political correctness was a good thing in that it pointed out all kinds of injustices; but it can go too far when it is used to pretend that "ethnicity" is an irrelevant part of peoples lives. If it isn't important to you, that is fine, but at least recognize that it can be very important to others, and that having pride in an "ethnicity" doesn't have to be "racist" but that it can be healthy - just as your "nationalistic" pride can be both good (makes for great hockey rivalries) and bad (makes for brutal wars).

How did we get on this? Let's get back to talking about prospects and bashing Comrie!

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Old
12-12-2003, 07:23 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetballer03
I would have to agree with Walser and Allan on this one.

Canada is a multicultural nation, and there isn't one color that represents our country. When i cheer for Nash and Weir it doesnt mean anything more than my Nationalistic pride. not racial ethnicity. Hell i cheer for Carter because he's the only reason why we have a basketball team in Canada. He single handedly sells seats that keep the Raptors afloat.

Point is, the original post was racially prolific. I wouldn't cheer Tootoo or Chechoo more if they were my color. I don't look around for Asian players in sports to cheer for because they're my color. Sports is about talent and ability. Let's keep it that way.

I don't Allan and Walser meant to be offensive at all. Don't mistake anything they said. It al depends on how you look at things.
One also has to recognize the demographics in the NHL. Cheering a little harder for someone who's Canadian in hockey is different then cheering a little harder for someone who is Native. There are a pile of Canadians in hockey, but not a lot of Natives. Canadians play particular attention to Weir & Nash because there are simply not a lot of elite Candians in both those sports.
I would wager not a lot of Canadians watch Polo, primiarly because Canadians are not well-represented. I do know if the next big, young, rising star in Polo was Canadian, that more Canadians would be apt to follow along. We don't live in a cultural vacume, it would be silly to pretend we do.

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12-12-2003, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PineJockey
Walsher, I usually like your posts, but you are off on this one. Are you telling me you don't follow Mike Weir, or Steve Nash a little bit more closely than other players because they are Canadian playing in non-Canadian dominated sports? Of course. There is no difference here - following a minority group (on whatever basis) in an area in which they are underrepresented. Let's not pretend that we are so objectivley detached from the game that the only reason we watch is "strictly about hockey ability". It is one thing to not judge on the basis of cultural, ethnic, religious, etc. characteristics. It is quite another to pretend that they don't exist, or that they are not relevant. Obviously in terms of "hockey skills" ethnicity is irrelevant, but in terms of community pride, fan involvement in the game, etc., it is highly relevant, interesting, and yes, even fun to follow individuals with the same interests, background, heritage as yourself. I would say it is anything BUT ridiculous.
I don't know who those guys are, but I wouldn't cheer for them just because they are Canadian. I cheer for the team I am following, regardless of what group its players do or do not belong to. I cheer for Ethan Moreau because he is an Oiler, but not any less than Georges Laraque or Mike York, even though I am not black or American. I cheered for Petr Nedved when he played for team Canada, even though he is a Czech, because team Canada was the team I was following, which is more important than any of its players. I am not saying that it is wrong to identify with another person because of similarities, especially if you have faced hardships because of them. I just object too seeking out players based upon this similarity.

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12-12-2003, 07:31 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
One also has to recognize the demographics in the NHL. Cheering a little harder for someone who's Canadian in hockey is different then cheering a little harder for someone who is Native. There are a pile of Canadians in hockey, but not a lot of Natives. Canadians play particular attention to Weir & Nash because there are simply not a lot of elite Candians in both those sports.
I would wager not a lot of Canadians watch Polo, primiarly because Canadians are not well-represented. I do know if the next big, young, rising star in Polo was Canadian, that more Canadians would be apt to follow along. We don't live in a cultural vacume, it would be silly to pretend we do.
I don't follow polo because it isn't played much here, and I wasn't exposed to it much, not because there are no Canadian stars. I follow rugby very closely, because I have been involved with it for a long time, and enjoy the game, but none of the top players in that sport are Canadian either. I think the reverse of your argument is very true, however. There are no big Canadian polo stars because so few Canadians care about polo.

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12-12-2003, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
I cheer for the team I am following, regardless of what group its players do or do not belong to. I cheer for Ethan Moreau because he is an Oiler, but not any less than Georges Laraque or Mike York, even though I am not black or American.
Understandable. That's a fan. But how is it not acceptable for non-Oiler fans, for example, to cheer for Laraque or York because they are black or American? I don't see how it's not.

In fact, I would wager it would play a huge part in the whole concept of role models.

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12-12-2003, 07:39 AM
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Wow guys, he simply asked if EDM has any native prospects. The answer is I don't think so. Check out this link:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=10

That is a list of all of our prospects.

I'm assuming you are talking about Canadian First Nations, so that eliminates our Euro and American prospects. That leaves:

Delauriers
Poulliot
Lynch
Brodziak
Jacques
Radunske

Of those, I have only ever seen Lynch and Delauriers; both of whom are not First Nations. Any of the remaining could be, but I have no idea. You could search their Junior hockey websites to check if you are so inclined.

On a side note, wow, I really didn't realise that we had so many Yankee prospects. Thumbs up the ever improving US College programs for developing so many prospects for us.

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12-12-2003, 09:45 AM
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Ok, just picked up the Toronto Star today and the whole front page of the sports section is Rocky Thompson (not a prospect, as he is 26, but Oiler property none the less). Apparantly he is 1/2 Metis and 1/2 Cree.

Hope that interests you. If it does, I strongly suggest picking up today's Toronto Star. It mentions he intends on opening a hockey camp for aboriginal youth this summer (after working at one for 7 years), running it on reserves in Alberta.

Sounds like an upstanding role model to me.

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12-12-2003, 10:04 AM
  #20
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It doesn't matter if they're black, white, native, whatever...as long as they can play. Mike Grier and Georges Laraque weren't popular in Edmonton because they were African American, its because they dished out big hits and stuck up for their teammates.

After soccer, hockey is probably the most diverse sport in the world. Heck, we even have some Asians like Kariya, Storr, Tanabe, and Richard Park who can play some pretty darn good hockey.

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12-12-2003, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by USC Trojans
It doesn't matter if they're black, white, native, whatever...as long as they can play. Mike Grier and Georges Laraque weren't popular in Edmonton because they were African American, its because they dished out big hits and stuck up for their teammates.

After soccer, hockey is probably the most diverse sport in the world. Heck, we even have some Asians like Kariya, Storr, Tanabe, and Richard Park who can play some pretty darn good hockey.
Isn't Tanabe first nations from the U.S?

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12-12-2003, 01:20 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by slats432
Isn't Tanabe first nations from the U.S?
Err Slats, I think he is Japanese or half Japanese? I might be mistaken but I don't think so.

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12-12-2003, 01:37 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by slats432
Isn't Tanabe first nations from the U.S?
umm...Kariya, Storr, and Tanabe are all half japanese....Park is full Korean...ethnicity wise.

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12-13-2003, 08:46 AM
  #24
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Holy cow guys... Personally, I think it's important for First Nations people to have good role models. Reserves really can be nasty places, both for those living on them and those off. (I lived in Truro NS, which has the Millbrook Reserve right next to it, for about 12 years.)

If looking for hockey players of the same ethnicity helps to get kids into better lives - regardless of their origins - I'm all for it.

I think Edmonton fans are spoiled, because the team has a long history of not caring what colour the players are or where they're from, just so long as they play - but I remember an interview with Jarome Iginla where he said that guys like Grant Fuhr were good role models for him, *because* they proved that it shouldn't matter. There's still a long way to go everywhere, even Canada, as far as race relations go.

In answer to your question, Lance, I don't know of any current Edmonton prospects who're natives.

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12-13-2003, 09:51 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PineJockey
Walsher, I usually like your posts, but you are off on this one. Are you telling me you don't follow Mike Weir, or Steve Nash a little bit more closely than other players because they are Canadian playing in non-Canadian dominated sports? Of course. There is no difference here - following a minority group (on whatever basis) in an area in which they are underrepresented. Let's not pretend that we are so objectivley detached from the game that the only reason we watch is "strictly about hockey ability". It is one thing to not judge on the basis of cultural, ethnic, religious, etc. characteristics. It is quite another to pretend that they don't exist, or that they are not relevant. Obviously in terms of "hockey skills" ethnicity is irrelevant, but in terms of community pride, fan involvement in the game, etc., it is highly relevant, interesting, and yes, even fun to follow individuals with the same interests, background, heritage as yourself. I would say it is anything BUT ridiculous.
Well said.. this is no different than me being a big Ed Jovanovski fan simply because I am from Windsor, Ontario. I cheer for guys near my home town because it's nice to see someone from my area make it big. Is there anything wrong with this? Obviously not.

No one would make a big deal if I asked if Edmonton had any prospect from Southwestern Ontario so asking if any First Nations prospects are in the system shouldn't matter either. I think, as a country, Canada has evolved from the days of tip-toeing around politically correctness where we pretend that we don't notice if someone is of another race. There are different ethnicities and it's not wrong to notice them; it's wrong to judge them, and no one mentioned anything about judging them.

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