HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Smyth "embarassing"

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-03-2007, 11:40 AM
  #1
DaveMatthew
Registered User
 
DaveMatthew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 6,651
vCash: 500
Smyth "embarassing"

I was reading the Ottawa Sun this morning, and this this caught my interest.

Quote:
Ryan Smyth refused to give a similar break to Edmonton, and hence wound up getting traded from his team of 12 years earlier this week.

If you're one of the regular, working-class citizens out there who wonder why he cried his way out of the Alberta capital when he could have just accepted a few hundred grand less from the Oilers and stayed, you share similar sentiments with a number of NHL players. One of his peers said Smyth's behavior was "embarrassing."

Phillips doesn't think so, but he figures there was more than met the eye in the Smyth situation.

"It's almost like there's something more there than a money issue," said Phillips. "That's a pretty unique situation. I think he was a fan of the Oilers before he ever played for the Oilers ... I don't know how many guys out there who cheered for the team he plays with his whole career."
http://ottawasun.com/Sports/Senators...89973-sun.html

DaveMatthew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:44 AM
  #2
Suiteness
Registered User
 
Suiteness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Time to Rebuild
Posts: 6,673
vCash: 500
I thought the whole thing was pretty silly. He's a UFA come July 1st, he can just re-sign with Edmonton then. I really don't see what the crying was all about.

Suiteness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:45 AM
  #3
Tekneek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 500
Chris Phillips gets it. I think most of the fans do also, though. We all know Smyth followed the Oilers as a kid, was ran over by Glenn Anderson, and so on. That had to have played into his emotional reaction to dealing with the trade. I don't begrudge the guy for that. Even if he knew he might get traded, he probably wasn't really emotionally prepared for the reality.

Look at people who have worked at places for a lot fewer years than that. Even with months of lead time before a big lay off, they are still emotional on the big lay off day. Despite all that time to prepare, they are upset when it comes time to leave. It's called being human.

Tekneek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:46 AM
  #4
jcoldwell
Registered User
 
jcoldwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,070
vCash: 500
I don't want to see Smyth back, but if he does want to come back, then KLowe should play 'hardball' with Ryan and say here is $18M/4yrs. And if Ryan really wants to come back he will take it.

jcoldwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:48 AM
  #5
Tekneek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
I don't want to see Smyth back, but if he does want to come back, then KLowe should play 'hardball' with Ryan and say here is $18M/4yrs. And if Ryan really wants to come back he will take it.
I hope he goes elsewhere and gets better money than Lowe was offering. Personally, that's what I want to see. I would consider that vindication for his position.

In the meantime, I hope he does well in the playoffs while Lowe spins the 'we'll try harder next year' idea.

Tekneek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:49 AM
  #6
Suiteness
Registered User
 
Suiteness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Time to Rebuild
Posts: 6,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekneek View Post
Look at people who have worked at places for a lot fewer years than that. Even with months of lead time before a big lay off, they are still emotional on the big lay off day. Despite all that time to prepare, they are upset when it comes time to leave. It's called being human.
Difference with a lay-off is, there's usually no coming back.

If you want to use a work analogy, In Smyth's case, it's more like being sent away for a three month training.

Suiteness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:51 AM
  #7
Tekneek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
Difference with a lay-off is, there's usually no coming back.

If you want to use a work analogy, I'd compare it to being sent away for a three month training.
Not really true. A lot of places reserve the option to call you back when "things pick up" and still consider you a re-hire (for other positions within the company) if you worked everything out to the end without incident.

Tekneek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 11:52 AM
  #8
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
This is going to go in circles forever and for the life of me I don't understand why people bother. The real issues are that Lowe decided to sign others before he decided to sign Smyth. The two possible reasons are that he honestly felt that Smyth would fall in line or that he didn't plan on signing him because the money would be better spent on the defenseman Lowe covets.

A third reason may be that the Tanguay contract caught them off guard but I don't buy it. The Oilers didn't think Ryan Smyth was worth it. Lowe basically said as much yesterday (or the day before). He didn't say "we were worried Smyth would be a shell in yrs 4/5" he said "he's not a player who is worth what he wanted to us."

Lowe wants someone else. He believes the money is better spent elsewhere. It may cost him his job (which I doubt), but that is his belief.

He has backed himself into a corner in the exact way Whitey Herzog used to do, in that he's made up his mind and then proceeded accordingly despite what the prevailing wisdom might dictate.

Gutsy and when it works (as it worked for Whitey with Ted Simmons) the GM looks like he's running circles around the other clowns. And when it does not (as it did with pretty much everything after 1987 in STL for Whitey) then you lose your job.

We'll see. The equation we should begin to discuss now is "stud D>Smyth". That's what Kevin Lowe is going to do imo.

And he's backed himself into such a corner now the overpay may be monstrous. The Ottawa Senators might be trading Wade Redden to Edmonton for so much it will make those upset over the Smyth deal experience true shock and awe.

Dangerous time for Lowe, and it'll be very interesting to see how he gets himself out of this one.

Lowetide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 12:46 PM
  #9
Narnia
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Narnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Narnia
From what I recall, Lowe wanted to negotiate but Meehan didn't want to and wanted to wait. There was an article I think about it.

__________________
"He just ate up Robyn Regehr for dinner, a spectacular play by Hemsky, and Robyn Regehr has got doo doo all over his face" - Rod Phillips call on Hemsky's goal vs the Flames
Narnia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 12:55 PM
  #10
mudcrutch79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Big Smoke
Posts: 3,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
And he's backed himself into such a corner now the overpay may be monstrous. The Ottawa Senators might be trading Wade Redden to Edmonton for so much it will make those upset over the Smyth deal experience true shock and awe.
This is what I think is going to happen. If they do make a trade - and I'm not convinced they will - it's going to be an obscene amount of talent going the other way. They have absolutely painted themselves into a corner on this - the fix might be worse than the disease.

mudcrutch79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 01:07 PM
  #11
barrel_master
Amber Heard
 
barrel_master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
I thought the whole thing was pretty silly. He's a UFA come July 1st, he can just re-sign with Edmonton then. I really don't see what the crying was all about.
Can't it be like an airport thing? Some family member or something leaves for 4 months and there's some crying?

barrel_master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:12 PM
  #12
Oilforblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
I thought the whole thing was pretty silly. He's a UFA come July 1st, he can just re-sign with Edmonton then. I really don't see what the crying was all about.
It was just the reality of the situation sinking in for Smytty.

Oilforblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:15 PM
  #13
Yanner39
Registered User
 
Yanner39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ottawa ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
This is going to go in circles forever and for the life of me I don't understand why people bother. The real issues are that Lowe decided to sign others before he decided to sign Smyth. The two possible reasons are that he honestly felt that Smyth would fall in line or that he didn't plan on signing him because the money would be better spent on the defenseman Lowe covets.

A third reason may be that the Tanguay contract caught them off guard but I don't buy it. The Oilers didn't think Ryan Smyth was worth it. Lowe basically said as much yesterday (or the day before). He didn't say "we were worried Smyth would be a shell in yrs 4/5" he said "he's not a player who is worth what he wanted to us."

Lowe wants someone else. He believes the money is better spent elsewhere. It may cost him his job (which I doubt), but that is his belief.

He has backed himself into a corner in the exact way Whitey Herzog used to do, in that he's made up his mind and then proceeded accordingly despite what the prevailing wisdom might dictate.

Gutsy and when it works (as it worked for Whitey with Ted Simmons) the GM looks like he's running circles around the other clowns. And when it does not (as it did with pretty much everything after 1987 in STL for Whitey) then you lose your job.

We'll see. The equation we should begin to discuss now is "stud D>Smyth". That's what Kevin Lowe is going to do imo.

And he's backed himself into such a corner now the overpay may be monstrous. The Ottawa Senators might be trading Wade Redden to Edmonton for so much it will make those upset over the Smyth deal experience true shock and awe.

Dangerous time for Lowe, and it'll be very interesting to see how he gets himself out of this one.

Lowe had to negotiate with Pisani Roloson and Horcoff because they were free agents. To me, that really has nothing to do with the issue.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that fact that could it be that Smyth rubbed Lowe the wrong way when he publicly stated that we wasn't going to take the hometown discount?

I honestly don't blame Smyth for not wanting to take a discount and that he should get paid what he worth. But maybe this is something that he should have kept to himself because I think that right off the back, a statement like that can only be viewed as confrontational.

Yanner39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:21 PM
  #14
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Lowe had to negotiate with Pisani Roloson and Horcoff because they were free agents. To me, that really has nothing to do with the issue.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that fact that could it be that Smyth rubbed Lowe the wrong way when he publicly stated that we wasn't going to take the hometown discount?

I honestly don't blame Smyth for not wanting to take a discount and that he should get paid what he worth. But maybe this is something that he should have kept to himself because I think that right off the back, a statement like that can only be viewed as confrontational.
He never had to take a hometown discount. He was always a RFA with no bargaining power. Those comments were pure posturing.

Walsher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:25 PM
  #15
Oilforblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
This is going to go in circles forever and for the life of me I don't understand why people bother. The real issues are that Lowe decided to sign others before he decided to sign Smyth. The two possible reasons are that he honestly felt that Smyth would fall in line or that he didn't plan on signing him because the money would be better spent on the defenseman Lowe covets.

And he's backed himself into such a corner now the overpay may be monstrous. The Ottawa Senators might be trading Wade Redden to Edmonton for so much it will make those upset over the Smyth deal experience true shock and awe.

Dangerous time for Lowe, and it'll be very interesting to see how he gets himself out of this one.
I think you are giving KLowe too much credit on this one. If he really did decide that Smyth isn't the future plans... then why (apparently) come up so much in the 11th hour contract? Why make a panicked "re-build" deal when the plans to re-invent the team were so long in the tooth?

I'm just utterly confused. The state of the team right now is in no man's land between rebuilding for the future and a glut of overpaid 2nd and 3rd liners! If Lowe was re-inventing the team, other deals should have and would have been made. The $5mil freedom of Smytty's contract doesn't clear up the cap space to play as we'll need to in the UFA market... and we are still lacking the pieces to a decent transition game.

I think this season's negotiations went more like this. This seems more like KLowe was unable to make the decision to keep/deal Smytty, panicked in the last 2 hours of the deadline, and now has a big mess to clean up. Shame on Meehan/Smyth/NHLPA for being greedy. Shame on Lowe for wembling on the decision all year!

Lowtide... I hope he pulls himself out of it though.... it means the Oilers are a better team and winning again if he does.

Oilforblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:26 PM
  #16
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 12,124
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher View Post
He never had to take a hometown discount. He was always a RFA with no bargaining power. Those comments were pure posturing.
yeah ive never understood this.... smyth *never*, i repeat *never* took the much lauded "hometwon discount".... he was always paid extremely fairly

i agree with LT as well.... lowe has backed himself into a corner when it comes to a #1 defenceman, and every GM/UFA d-man in the league knows it.... lowe has essentially broadcast this need to anybody who will listen, as hes defended the smyth trade over the past few days

so when lowe comes calling a UFA dman, they are gonna ask for more cause they know the oilers have a big need at that position.... GMs will also be asking for more for any "elite-type" player, because they know lowe needs to make a splash to appease the oiler faithful.... we all better get ready to be very upset with how much we pay a UFA or how much we give up in a trade

jadeddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:30 PM
  #17
Injektilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Taiwan
Country: United Nations
Posts: 2,516
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Injektilo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeComrie'sGhost View Post
This is what I think is going to happen. If they do make a trade - and I'm not convinced they will - it's going to be an obscene amount of talent going the other way. They have absolutely painted themselves into a corner on this - the fix might be worse than the disease.

Indeed, there's gonna be some major pressure on Lowe to fill the hole left by Smyth, and I wouldn't be suprised to see him overpay, enough that would completely wipe out whatever gains we got from the Islanders.

Injektilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:32 PM
  #18
Injektilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Taiwan
Country: United Nations
Posts: 2,516
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Injektilo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilforblood View Post
Shame on Meehan/Smyth/NHLPA for being greedy.
How exactly is the NHLPA being greedy here? Meehan and Smyth, fine, I can see how that argument can be made. But the NHLPA?

Injektilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:38 PM
  #19
Tekneek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,691
vCash: 500
We'll see how greedy they were being. If he gets that money, or more, on the open market this summer, then they were merely properly assessing market value of Ryan Smyth's services. They are only being greedy if nobody ever gets close to that price, IMO.

Tekneek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:41 PM
  #20
Yanner39
Registered User
 
Yanner39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ottawa ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher View Post
He never had to take a hometown discount. He was always a RFA with no bargaining power. Those comments were pure posturing.
Not what I said. In fact, this has nothing to do with my post.

I said that the fact that Smyth said in the press that he was not going to take a hometown discount could be seen as confrontational from the get-go.

Yanner39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:48 PM
  #21
Yanner39
Registered User
 
Yanner39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ottawa ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeComrie'sGhost View Post
This is what I think is going to happen. If they do make a trade - and I'm not convinced they will - it's going to be an obscene amount of talent going the other way. They have absolutely painted themselves into a corner on this - the fix might be worse than the disease.
I don't agree. Sorry, but there is always going to be other GMs around the league that will want to make a deal with Lowe because they have problems of their own (cap space issues, lack of forwards, lack of draft picks, etc). Trading with Lowe for the sake of trying to take advantage of him is a bad strategy IMO.

Why do we always assume that the Oilers and specifically Lowe are always operating from a position of weakness? Apart from that fact that I think he's done a poor job this season at getting active players to help the club, more specifically on D, he's proven in the past he can make good trades or sign good players.


This team will be better next season and Lowe has some cash to make it happen. He did when he signed Pronger and Peca, what makes some of you think he can't do it again?

Yanner39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:53 PM
  #22
Oilforblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 236
vCash: 500
The NHLPA continually puts pressure on agents to maximize value for players. Each signing has a value in comparison to similar players in negotiations. Lowetide kinda mentioned this with his statement of KLowe being surprised by the Tanguay deal. No one was mentioning Smyth as a 5.25mil player until that happened, but that's just an example.

This issue of NHLPA pressure on agents isn't new. I'm not blaming them entirely, I'm just including them into the mix so they get thier fair share.

Smyth is an integral player to our system and team. We all know that, but many of us balk at the thought of him getting $5.5-6mil/yr over a 4-5 yr contract.

So... are his stats and abilities that crucial to many other teams in the league? Would he be the #1 winger on most other teams in the league? If so, then he is a true $6mil player and maybe Lowe should have spent the money and built a team around Smyth (a la Flames and Iginla). If not, Lowe should have dealt him for maximum return. I have many doubts the Lowe managed to get max value for Smyth considering many of the other deals that happened this Feb.

Making a short story long.... we have all seen the value of mediocre players skyrocket in the past few years. The costs for a 10-20 goal scorer I'll never understand. All I was trying to say is that while Ryan is a very good player... does he deserve the money in the range of an elite player in this league as Meehan/NHLPA would have us believe?

Time will tell...

Oilforblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 02:56 PM
  #23
HOF
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Lowe had to negotiate with Pisani Roloson and Horcoff because they were free agents. To me, that really has nothing to do with the issue.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that fact that could it be that Smyth rubbed Lowe the wrong way when he publicly stated that we wasn't going to take the hometown discount?

I honestly don't blame Smyth for not wanting to take a discount and that he should get paid what he worth. But maybe this is something that he should have kept to himself because I think that right off the back, a statement like that can only be viewed as confrontational.
I think he did rub Lowe in a wrong way a tad. I just listened to that previous interview, and to be frank, Smyth sounded like a pr*** in a way. He was dead set on taking everything he could.

HOF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 03:05 PM
  #24
hillbillypriest
Registered User
 
hillbillypriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: there there
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
This is going to go in circles forever and for the life of me I don't understand why people bother. The real issues are that Lowe decided to sign others before he decided to sign Smyth. The two possible reasons are that he honestly felt that Smyth would fall in line or that he didn't plan on signing him because the money would be better spent on the defenseman Lowe covets.

A third reason may be that the Tanguay contract caught them off guard but I don't buy it. The Oilers didn't think Ryan Smyth was worth it. Lowe basically said as much yesterday (or the day before). He didn't say "we were worried Smyth would be a shell in yrs 4/5" he said "he's not a player who is worth what he wanted to us."

Lowe wants someone else. He believes the money is better spent elsewhere. It may cost him his job (which I doubt), but that is his belief.

He has backed himself into a corner in the exact way Whitey Herzog used to do, in that he's made up his mind and then proceeded accordingly despite what the prevailing wisdom might dictate.

Gutsy and when it works (as it worked for Whitey with Ted Simmons) the GM looks like he's running circles around the other clowns. And when it does not (as it did with pretty much everything after 1987 in STL for Whitey) then you lose your job.

We'll see. The equation we should begin to discuss now is "stud D>Smyth". That's what Kevin Lowe is going to do imo.

And he's backed himself into such a corner now the overpay may be monstrous. The Ottawa Senators might be trading Wade Redden to Edmonton for so much it will make those upset over the Smyth deal experience true shock and awe.

Dangerous time for Lowe, and it'll be very interesting to see how he gets himself out of this one.
The "Lowe should have started with Smyth before others" angle is really starting to annoy me. Don't mean to take it out on you Lowetide, because a lot of people have said this, most prominently Bob McKenzie.

My take is that this is primarily about a negotiating strategy that went wrong for Smyth and Meehan. I'll explain, but first I'll digress. A lot.

First off, I do want to take on the Bob McKenzie analogy with Calgary going to its franchise player (Ignila) and saying "what do you need to be happy?" The Oilers did this too. That player was Chris Pronger. They also had their analogue of Tanguay in Mike Peca - a short duration overpay that fit into a window under a contract that ended before the next set of big choices had to be made. Then of course the Pronger walkaway happened. Suddenly we have a franchise player void, and Ryan Smyth nominated himself as IT. In the immediate meantime, however, Lowe is in a total crisis not of his own making, plus he had all sorts of clean ups to do with expired contracts with UFA' with only a couple of weeks to spare before July 1. Two of which just happened to be with players that had just made strong cases to pick up the Conn Smythe. He signs both of those players (Pisani and Roloson) and beats back a little of panic and self-estime hit in Edmonton. He subsequently signs Horcoff, also a UFA, who had just backed up a lock out season in Sweden that had him keeping pace with Naslund and Forsberg with a terrific NHL season. In effect, Lowe had waited on the indications from the Sweden season before making a decision that Horcoff was a player.

Then comes Hemsky. Although only an RFA and not a UFA, it bears repeating at this stage that Hemsky did not have a contract and needed to be signed to some deal before he could play and clearly had a value that exceeded what he could be obtained for in an RFA raid. Lowe roles the dice here and locks him up long term. Banking on the indications that Hemsky has superstar talent. This may be when Smyth starts to get his hackles up, since the contract Lowe gave to Hemsky was for an average of more per year and longer than the 4 over 4 that we are now hearing Smyth was offered over the summer. Smyth and Meehan say not good enough and(apparently) says we want 5 over 5. Somebody says lets talk again after the year is up. I gather that somebody is Lowe, although some of Smyth's comments have suggested that Smyth/Meehan may have been the ones to break things with the expectation of negotiating only after the season ended. In any event, it's evident now that Ryan and Stacey are pissed/hurt. But at this stage the public at large doesn't know this.

Then comes Lupul, who has just had a superlative playoffs, including that amazing goal in game 4 of the semi's off the faceoff. Looks (at the time) like a keeper and certainly of much higher value than Ryan Kessler who received an offer sheet for $1.9 million. Lowe is also under pressure to sign the guy before training camp because he's the key part of the deal that Lowe was forced to make after Pronger phoned in his trade request to Al Strachan from Mexico. Money keeps piling up.

Season starts. Now into the season and looking forward there are some long term players that can be extended because they are in the last year of their contracts. First is Moreau. Gets 1.75 million plus a signing bonus. Then Staios for an average of 2.7 over 4. Both are going to be free agents. Staios is almost certainly at market value. Moreau arguably not, but if not, not over by much. Unlike Smyth, both guys share the characterisitic of having actually said "yes" rather than "no" to a deal.

It is at this point that Smyth goes public and we get the audio clip on the Brian Hall show where he declares that he is no longer prepared to "take the hometown discount" and intimates that he's going to test the free agency market. It's not clear whether Meehan has told him to go public or not, but however it happened, it's now out there. Smyth has said he may go. Whether he only meant it as a negotiating tactic, he's now made his bed and has now legitemized Lowe's need to start thinking about whether a trade has to happen on or before the deadline so that some kind of value comes back. The scenario of Meehan client Cujo several years before is in the back of the mind. (Good intentions to resign, but in the end nothing to show for having waited until after the playoffs).

HF Boards go crazy. Public (i.e. internet) debate on Smyth's value starts. The big fans of Smyth drive the point hard that $4 million for four years was insulting to Smyth. Fans of Smyth say he's clearly worth $5 million/year. Maximum amount of his postulated value on the market on HF boards 6 million. Most place his value quite a bit below this. No discussion in HF posts of "details" like term or no trade clauses.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=313962

Negotiations begin again. Public is aware that Oilers are trying to re-open. When asked periodically about the negotiations. Smyth re-iterates that his side tried to make a deal befor the season started, but that didn't happen. Now I "just want to play hockey" and I want to talk about my contract at the end of the season (implying after the trade deadline when he's UFA).

Given the end point of the negotiations, it follows that at some point the $5 million per year that was supposedly requested was offered. Obviousy no deal, since Smyth believed that his value had been elevated as a result of his play. In any event, the fact that the originally discussed deal was no longer acceptable would be another indication to any reasonable observer that he wanted what he would get as a UFA, no less. At this point, Lowe has to begin thinking about where Smyth fits, what his maximum value to the team is, what his budget is, what his other holes are, and what he could get before the trade deadline window closed.

Week before the deadline. TSN fills hockey content air time with segment by expert on everything Pierre McGuire giving his predictions for 2010 Canadian Olympic team. Names 12 forwards, 6 defensemen and 2 goalies. Chris Pronger was the second defenseman named. Luongo was the 2nd goalie named. Jerome Iginla is named among top 6 forwards. Alex Tanguay was not named by McGuire. Neither was Ryan Smyth.

Negotiations continue. Breathless fans periodically grasp at any information available about progress of the negotiations. Time passes, still no deal. Ryan continues to say that he really just wants to concentrate on making the playoffs and negotiate when the hockey is done. For some odd reason, the Oilers really intent on bothering Smyth with annoying stuff like contact negotiations. On February 25th, Oilers lose critical game to Minnesota after having already lost more games than they won on road trip identified as crucial for any chance at playoff run. Consensus is that Oilers are DONE. Highly likely that Oilers offer now well above the 5 million apparently on the table before the season started. Still negotiating long term financial arrangement worth more than 25 million dollars into trade deadline day and the Messier banner ceremony. Ryan Smyth apparently has not come to terms with the idea that he might actually be traded. 1 PM MST rolls around and suddenly the world as we knew it changes. TSN "Instant Analysis" panel immediately begin to speculate that Kevin Lowe has reacted emotionally and made a panic trade. Neither proposition is true.

OK, long backstory for some main propositions:
- All of Kevin Lowe's contract negotiations since June came after a run to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. Great thing, but the worst possible leverage for negotiations.
- Lowe was hit at the end of June with the biggest hockey bombshell in the last 10 years. Until that happened, Ryan Smyth was not the franchise player. The Pronger explosion dramatically impacted Lowe's negotiating leverage in every deal he had to make in the aftermath.
- Every deal Lowe makes, he has to make into uncertainty. Unlike us internet posters 8 months after the fact, he does not have perfect foresight of how his deals will turn out if the players don't play as well as their agents said they would.
- Lowe has a whole team to run and is required to negotiate contracts with a whole roster of players. Just like Ryan Smyth, every individual he has to deal with has their own pride and sense of their market value.
- Ryan Smyth's pride put himself well above his teammates. Because of this pride he did not take the best deal the Oilers were prepared to offer and - incredibly - appeared to be totally surprised that the team would actually trade him.
- Critics of Lowe are way off base. IMO, he's done an incredible job under the circumstances handed to him this year. The ONLY potentially valid critisms revolve around differences in Smyth's value as perceived by individual fans as compared to Kevin Lowe's valuation of Smyth at various points in time. However, the time to assess this will be later, not now.
- Based on Kevin's Lowe's perception of value, he made the "right" decision based on his perception of Smyth's value relative to other team needs at the most trying time conceivable (Messier banner day). In my books, that shows true conviction and character. I'm glad he's on my side.
- At the end of the day, Ryan Smyth chose money over team. He has every reason and right in the world to do so. However, his team is now the New York Islanders. My team is still the Oilers. I don't need to be paid more than $US 27 million to feel this way. Apparently, he does.

hillbillypriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2007, 03:10 PM
  #25
Injektilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Taiwan
Country: United Nations
Posts: 2,516
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Injektilo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilforblood View Post
The NHLPA continually puts pressure on agents to maximize value for players. Each signing has a value in comparison to similar players in negotiations. Lowetide kinda mentioned this with his statement of KLowe being surprised by the Tanguay deal. No one was mentioning Smyth as a 5.25mil player until that happened, but that's just an example.

This issue of NHLPA pressure on agents isn't new. I'm not blaming them entirely, I'm just including them into the mix so they get thier fair share.

yeah, but they wouldn't be doing that now. The players get a fixed portion of revenues, a dollar in Smyth's pocket is a dollar out of some one elses, who is also presumably a member of the NHLPA.

Injektilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.