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Old
12-12-2003, 01:18 AM
  #1
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Savard....

Wow, Marc Savard looks really good this season. If you look at his stats, he has had solid season every year in his career. Who here would still have done the Savard + Pick (Saprykin) for Pick (Lundmark)?

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12-12-2003, 02:22 AM
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I would, savard managed to get himself sent to the doghouse in calgary and basically forced a trade. Its mostly due to the ATL not having any true top line centers that marc finds himself with the superstars in atl (kovalchuk and heatley) The minute they find someone with better size marc will move down the pecking order and if his past behavior is any indicator his game will take a huge nose dive.

Despite lundmark getting hurt I like what I see from him

and for the record I own savard in a few roto leagues and my sim league so I like his numbers, I just don't want them on the rangers who have enough problems already.

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12-12-2003, 03:27 AM
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It was my understanding that at the end of his last Ranger season, two things made it likely he'd be gone.. One was his crappy attitude and two was the emergence of a certain player who finished at Eastern Michigan and went to play in the Hartford playoffs and looked like a much quicker, smarter and more coachable version of Savard..

Mike York made Savard expendable, Savards attitude sent him packing..

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12-12-2003, 03:39 AM
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The Rangers also got Hlavac in that deal.

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12-12-2003, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
It was my understanding that at the end of his last Ranger season, two things made it likely he'd be gone.. One was his crappy attitude and two was the emergence of a certain player who finished at Eastern Michigan and went to play in the Hartford playoffs and looked like a much quicker, smarter and more coachable version of Savard..

Mike York made Savard expendable, Savards attitude sent him packing..

I do agree that Mike York made Savard expendable, but I think that the Rangers should have really thought hard about this deal.

Savard spent the majority of his season with the Rangers centering Kevin Stevens and Stevens had a resurgence (sort of) with a 23 goal season. Alot of that had to do with Marc.

The kid can flat out play the game offensively and while Mike York is the better all around player he can't touch Marc offensively.

Now with more playing time due to the Heatly injury he's showing what he can do with 1st line minutes.

He may have an attitude, but little guys like that usually do, sometimes you have to deal with those personalities. I would have liked to have kept the kid myself.

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12-12-2003, 05:09 AM
  #6
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
I do agree that Mike York made Savard expendable, but I think that the Rangers should have really thought hard about this deal.

Savard spent the majority of his season with the Rangers centering Kevin Stevens and Stevens had a resurgence (sort of) with a 23 goal season. Alot of that had to do with Marc.

The kid can flat out play the game offensively and while Mike York is the better all around player he can't touch Marc offensively.

Now with more playing time due to the Heatly injury he's showing what he can do with 1st line minutes.

He may have an attitude, but little guys like that usually do, sometimes you have to deal with those personalities. I would have liked to have kept the kid myself.
Agree 100% with PLD....Personally, since Savard was one of my favorites from the get-go, I would not have traded him..But, I can see the reasons for doing so...The main one being, as Davisian mentioned, Mike York....No way you could really go with two small centers and the Rangers decided to hitch their wagon to Yorkie for that roll...The other reason was Savard's cocky attitude which rubbed people the wrong way...But I say Bullspit to that one because it was mainly the result of an inmature kid thinking he was better then he was..All that was needed was some patience, discipine (instead of giving up) and for Savard to finally take it upon himslef and grow up..

Which he has indeed done...Right now, Marc Savard is one of the better players in the NHL and deserves an ALL-STAR bid for his play this season (Highest PPG in the entire league)..He's an offensive force right now, one of the best passers in the game, plays the PP, mans the PK, is the Thrasers top Face-off guy, and leads their forwards in ice-time (and was leading the league before his injury) and is one dirty-sneaky-pesky basterd...And I for one don't hink his success is due to Kovulchuk (yes it helps (both ways) but they don't play together all the time) or Heatley but rather his talent finally emerging..Just wait till heatley comes back to that team.....OTOH, I don't think Savard will keep up such a blazing pace and I kinda see him as bottom-hlaf #1 center or #2 center at ES but who can be deadly on a PP...

And we got Hlavac the Horrible..

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12-12-2003, 05:22 AM
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I didn't like that trade then...

but I would not have been against trading Savard for somebody. Like Melnyk, I like Savard from the get-go. I remember him being called up and no matte which wingers he had, he played well (and when the wingers got going, they went to TGO and suffered). But York did make him expendable, unless we wanted the mighty mites down the middle. Knowing what I know now, I would've put York on Savard's wing, but that's hindsight.

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12-12-2003, 06:31 AM
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I've always been a big fan of Savard's. I didn't mind the deal because I liked Lundmark better than Saprykin and reports were saying that Hlavac was the best player not in the NHL at the time.

I don't buy this bad attitude crap -- cockiness is one thing, not caring is totally different. I don't mind a little cockiness and flash, but what sticks out in my mind is an overtime goal that either he or Graves scored the year he was on the Rangers and he jumped for joy like he won the Stanley Cup. The kid is VERY enthusiastic about the game, and loves to play.

Now, what he's like in the locker room is totally different. I don't know about that.

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12-12-2003, 06:41 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersFan
Wow, Marc Savard looks really good this season. If you look at his stats, he has had solid season every year in his career. Who here would still have done the Savard + Pick (Saprykin) for Pick (Lundmark)?
rangers also got hlavac & a 3rd rounder in that deal...

with the 3rd rounder, we picked auferio...1 spot later, edmonton picked comrie (ouch)

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12-12-2003, 07:22 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo
I would, savard managed to get himself sent to the doghouse in calgary and basically forced a trade. Its mostly due to the ATL not having any true top line centers that marc finds himself with the superstars in atl (kovalchuk and heatley) The minute they find someone with better size marc will move down the pecking order and if his past behavior is any indicator his game will take a huge nose dive.
GreG Gilbert hated Savard in Calgary, but I guaruntee you that they are kicking themselves for making that deal with Atlanta.

The Flames really lack a playmaking center, Savard is just what they need.

----------------------------------------------------

The whole premise of Savard being carried by Kovalchuk is a joke.

Is Savard helped out by playing with Kovalchuk ? Certainly.
Is Kovalchuk helped out by playing with Savard ? Absolutely.

Savard is one of the leagues better playmakers.
Playing nearly 23 minutes a night.
27 points in just 20 games
Winning 53% of his face-offs
3 game winning goals
Missed just 3 weeks after breaking his ankle

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12-12-2003, 07:41 AM
  #11
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Savvy's always been a good playmaker...

and has a pretty decent wrist shot too, I believe. He sees the ice well. But heck, even Gretzky in his hey day would benefit a bit from a guy like Kovalchuk, when compared to a guy like, say, McSorley.

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12-12-2003, 08:55 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
GreG Gilbert hated Savard in Calgary, but I guaruntee you that they are kicking themselves for making that deal with Atlanta.

The Flames really lack a playmaking center, Savard is just what they need.

----------------------------------------------------

The whole premise of Savard being carried by Kovalchuk is a joke.

Is Savard helped out by playing with Kovalchuk ? Certainly.
Is Kovalchuk helped out by playing with Savard ? Absolutely.

Savard is one of the leagues better playmakers.
Playing nearly 23 minutes a night.
27 points in just 20 games
Winning 53% of his face-offs
3 game winning goals
Missed just 3 weeks after breaking his ankle
Kind of hard to go against him with those numbers...but I will. I don't like the guy and I think he is a punk, even when he was a Ranger. I guess my last impression of him squeezing next to Gretzky after TGO's last game still ticks me off. But on the ice, the guy has talent. But then again who would you take in years gone by in baseball, Albert Belle or Joe Carter. Me personally, I would take Carter. And if we compare Savard to York, it's not even close who I would take.

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12-12-2003, 09:02 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
Kind of hard to go against him with those numbers...but I will. I don't like the guy and I think he is a punk, even when he was a Ranger. I guess my last impression of him squeezing next to Gretzky after TGO's last game still ticks me off. But on the ice, the guy has talent. But then again who would you take in years gone by in baseball, Albert Belle or Joe Carter. Me personally, I would take Carter. And if we compare Savard to York, it's not even close who I would take.
IMO you keep both Savard and York. Play Savard at center and York on the wing (not necessarily together).

If you had to choose one, it would depend on what the rest of your teams make-up is.

If I could only add one to the current Flyers team, I'll take the Savard.

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12-12-2003, 09:06 AM
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I know Savard has a bad reputation but I really liked him on the Rangers. Yea, Hlavac gave us a solid year or two but we didnt make the playoffs and it also led to us signing him this year. Lundmark may be a good player, but I wouldnt label him a cant miss guy. I wouldn't have done it. I didnt like it then and I dont like it now. A nice playmaker to get the puck to Kovalev, Lindros, Nedved, etc. could be useful right now.

In my mind we lost alot that day. Can't we rebuild like every other team? We even screwed that up. We lost Cloutier, Sundstrom, Savard, and I'm sure theres more that isn't coming to my mind right now. All for Pavel Bustl and Lundmark. I dont blame them so much for moving up but they gave up too much to do it IMO. I can even understand the Brendl move but the Lundmark move still aggravates me. Cant we take our time like evryone else. We have to load up to try and rebuild in one year.

Hockey is different here.

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12-12-2003, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
IMO you keep both Savard and York. Play Savard at center and York on the wing (not necessarily together).

If you had to choose one, it would depend on what the rest of your teams make-up is.

If I could only add one to the current Flyers team, I'll take the Savard.
I'd take York. Savard might be a little more talented, but in the playoffs its gonna be York in the corner giving everything he has. Maybe It's totally off base, but I wouldn't have minded York getting the C when Mess left. I dont know how vocal he was but he was a great example at the least. That little guy came to play every night and it showed.

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12-12-2003, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
Kind of hard to go against him with those numbers...but I will. I don't like the guy and I think he is a punk, even when he was a Ranger. I guess my last impression of him squeezing next to Gretzky after TGO's last game still ticks me off. But on the ice, the guy has talent. But then again who would you take in years gone by in baseball, Albert Belle or Joe Carter. Me personally, I would take Carter. And if we compare Savard to York, it's not even close who I would take.

Same here, but I would take SAVARD by a country mile..And I like Mike York...While York has been a model citizen and a good all around player for years, I think you might be penalizing Savard for how he acted several years ago when he was indeed a cocky, know-it-all pest...His attributes have been well dcumented in this post, but he always had the great talent, and the great vision and instinct which makes him such a great passer...From everything I've read and seen, the kid has finally matured unbelivably to where he is one of the leaders of the ATlanta team both on and off the ice....He DOES everything on the ice and now he's also a great team-mate as long as a cocky pain in the arse to the other team (Didn't he just bite somebody?? )...

BTW, I fibbed about picking him by a COuntry mile over York, it just sounded like a good segueway....I like both players ALOT but would still pick Savard....But variety of opinion is what makes the world go round! God, I would love to have both...

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12-12-2003, 09:10 AM
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Does it make sense to anyone else that when we decide to rebuild we trade away all of our young talent to do it?

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12-12-2003, 09:14 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
IMO you keep both Savard and York. Play Savard at center and York on the wing (not necessarily together).

If you had to choose one, it would depend on what the rest of your teams make-up is.

If I could only add one to the current Flyers team, I'll take the Savard.
Once again, I'll have to disagree. I'll take Yorkie for the following reasons:

1. Better all around player
2. IMO, York is quicker
3. Probably the biggest reason, York is smarter. I remember a lot of bad penalties for Savard

BTW, good luck with the Devils. Those should be some great games!

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12-12-2003, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
Once again, I'll have to disagree. I'll take Yorkie for the following reasons:

1. Better all around player
2. IMO, York is quicker
3. Probably the biggest reason, York is smarter. I remember a lot of bad penalties for Savard

BTW, good luck with the Devils. Those should be some great games!

I said I'd keep them both, but if I had to shoose it would depend upon the rest of my team. Flyers could use Savard's playmaking abilities more than they could use York.

Also, the Savard playing for Atlanta, isn't the same guy that wore a Rangers jersey.

Thank. I'd recommend the games for anyone that has the NHL Center Ice package. PLayoff intensity in December, should be good.

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12-12-2003, 09:24 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger
Once again, I'll have to disagree. I'll take Yorkie for the following reasons:

1. Better all around player
2. IMO, York is quicker
3. Probably the biggest reason, York is smarter. I remember a lot of bad penalties for Savard

BTW, good luck with the Devils. Those should be some great games!
1. I don't know if that's true anymore. Savard contributes in all areas now. He's better offensively, Is the top face-off man and plays the PK. What more is there to ask for? (OTOH, York is better defensively and his offensive game keeps growing)

2) York is indeed faster, but Savard is sneaky quick...And his hands are much quicker also..

3. Savard just plays a nastier game then York and on offense, there aren't many smarter players then Savard....

You know, it would be nice if we had at least ONE of these guys!

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12-12-2003, 09:29 AM
  #21
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Tough to lose team and we still havent even made the playoffs.... but we are still hoping for that 1st round exit!!

Sundstrom-Savard-York

Zidlicky-Jonsson

Cloutier

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12-12-2003, 11:22 AM
  #22
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somtimes this board kills me. we complain and piss and moan about attitudes and not caring and then we yearn for savard. we talk about this team being a one dimensional team and then we drool over savard?

Give him two years before he is with another team because of his piss poor attitude.

as for trading him, at the time it was a good trade considering york was coming along and lundmark was available. hlvac also became a 60 point winger for this team. and if the rangers brought jamie along right then the trade looks better, but the rangers treatment of jamie is their own fault and isnt the fault of the trade.

as for the time period, just how many small finesse centers were we supposed to have? we had nedved, york,savard, etc.

hindsight is 20/20 but if the trade is a dud its because of the way they've briught along lundmark, not because savard continues to be a one dimensional player with an attitude you could smack.

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12-12-2003, 12:12 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge

hindsight is 20/20 but if the trade is a dud its because of the way they've briught along lundmark, not because savard continues to be a one dimensional player with an attitude you could smack.
True about hindsight but at least there's some sight involved..I've watched quite a few Thrashers game this year and Savard is FAR from 1-dimensional...Hey, if playing the PP, PK, being the top FO guy, leading the forwards in Ice time, being a plus player, pestering the other team left and right, and back-checking is 1-dimensional, well then maybe you're right.....

And from all I've seen, read and been told by friends in Atlanta, the players, fans and Hartley all love Savard (except for his aversion to working out) and his attitude is top notch..But, if you want to base everything on what happend two-three years ago, be my guest...That's how the Rangers operate any way....

And even if he was 1-dimensional, that's better then 0-dimensional (both Hlavac and Lundmark so far)..

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12-12-2003, 02:02 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
as for trading him, at the time it was a good trade considering york was coming along and lundmark was available. hlvac also became a 60 point winger for this team. and if the rangers brought jamie along right then the trade looks better, but the rangers treatment of jamie is their own fault and isnt the fault of the trade.

as for the time period, just how many small finesse centers were we supposed to have? we had nedved, york,savard, etc.

hindsight is 20/20 but if the trade is a dud its because of the way they've briught along lundmark, not because savard continues to be a one dimensional player with an attitude you could smack.
1. I'm sick of hearing how Jamie has been brought along. He played plenty of time in junior and in Hartford. Granted the Rangers could have given him more ice time this year but he hasn't exactly played that great. It's not like he sat every night. It's not like we rushed him up or never gave him a chance.

2. I didnt like it then and I dont like it now. Hlavac was in the perfect spot at the perfect time. It was obvious Savard was the better player. We have Nedved dont we? Maybe had we kept Savard, Nedved could be gone and we could have gone a different direction getting wingers instead. Maybe Savard had a lousy attitude but he was worth more then moving up two slots. Look at Philly, they moved farther up at the top to get Pitkanen for less then Savard. It's not like we moved up from the 3rd to the 1st pick. We moved from 9 to 11 or something like that.

3. Who cares if York as coming along. Why trade other players for that. You can't have two young centermen? Cant try one on the wing? Cant let him crack the lineup then deal Nedved?

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12-12-2003, 03:36 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
True about hindsight but at least there's some sight involved..I've watched quite a few Thrashers game this year and Savard is FAR from 1-dimensional...Hey, if playing the PP, PK, being the top FO guy, leading the forwards in Ice time, being a plus player, pestering the other team left and right, and back-checking is 1-dimensional, well then maybe you're right.....

And from all I've seen, read and been told by friends in Atlanta, the players, fans and Hartley all love Savard (except for his aversion to working out) and his attitude is top notch..But, if you want to base everything on what happend two-three years ago, be my guest...That's how the Rangers operate any way....

And even if he was 1-dimensional, that's better then 0-dimensional (both Hlavac and Lundmark so far)..
But see i've seen him too and while he is getting shifts there it's important to point out one key fact, what other centerman is atlanta going to to throw out there? i mean that is a huge consideration. on a team with more depth at center {not the rangers mind you} he doesn't get used in those situations.

as far as faceoffs go, he was always pretty good at those, way back into his OHL days.

Well of course they love Savard, he's been there all of how many months? We all loved Todd Harvey when he came over until he couldn't stay healthy. Heck Dvorak made some fans here too.

History has a way of repeating itself and Savard, though immensly talented, always has a way of wearing out his welcome and time will tell how long till he does that here.

I do agree that right now the savard trade looks bad and might be a bad trade, in hindsight. At the time though there were VERY few people who wouldnt have done it. Upon his first stint, Hlvac was as good offensvily as Savard {and only a year older}, Lundmark was a blue chip prospect, aufiero was a nice addition and york was coming up.

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