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Rebuilding Mode Rant

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Old
03-04-2007, 06:28 PM
  #1
Game 8
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Rebuilding Mode Rant

For those of us who do not like our "rebuilding mode" please consider the following points.

- We have never drafted low in the entry draft for an extended period. Now you may say the smart teams do not have to but I would like you to show me one. Any dominant team in the league over the past 20 years (besides us) has remained at the bottom of the league for a four year plus period before becoming dominant.

- It was once said (by Sather I believe) you need three world class players to be a great team and win Stanley Cups. We have none, so you ask where do we get them from? The only solution I can provide is the early picks in the first round of the entry draft.

- Ryan Smyth was the only good (not great) pick we made the last time we were drafting in this position. Its no secret we couldn't draft to save our lives back then. We have been living with these mistakes since then. Sather and subsequently KLowe has attempted to build a team around Ryan Smyth. K Lowe has actually done a remarkable job when you think about it. Getting to the Stanley Cup Finals last year through trades was a real feat. In the end you have to pay you dues and the Oilers never have, by this I mean going down in the standings and getting a shot at drafting some elite talent.

- With the trading of Ryan Smyth, I believe that we have entered a new era. I think our scouting is very good now (the key to all success new NHL or old). This is not to say that by simply being one of the worst teams in the league you will become one of the best by drafting consensus first round World Class Players. You still need to draft well in the subsequent rounds because your Stars will come of age and with no supporting cast and they will not succeed.

- I am very encouraged by the Ryan Smyth trade in that we are now going to get a good draft pick and start rebuilding with a great group of players roughly the same age. I actually hope we stay in the tank for three years and do a proper job of rebuilding, rather than believing there is a quick fix/silver bullet free agent out there who will make it all come together. This is a very exciting time for me. Finally we will have a team to cheer for. I am very tired of limping into the playoffs and hoping for an upset. Last year was remarkable, but if you remember we were within a hair of not making it into the playoffs. The reason for this I believe is mentioned above. We need to do a proper job of rebuilding. And yes our Scouts are THE most important people on our team.

- To overcome the minimum salary cap over the next two years, I would play the young guys. I would sign vets for their teaching skills rather than production. They could coach and mentor the young players, we make the league minimum, and our young players will be much better for it.

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03-04-2007, 08:15 PM
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OilRick
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I have this suspicious feeling that we as fans are going to find out this summer that there are no big name UFA's coing our way. I'm pretty sure that we are going to play a bunch of the youngsters, to break them in, and because next year is an extremely deep draft. I really won't be too surprised to see us enter next season with much the same lineup we are witnessing now. It seemed that KLowe avoided mentioning picking up any players in the offseason to make us more competetive for next year. Maybe I'm just paranoid that we're rebuilding, and haven't been told yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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03-04-2007, 09:06 PM
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Rebuilding Started...

The Oiler's started to rebuild when they didn't attract any big name free agents and when Chris Pronger requested a trade. Trading for a number 1 defenseman is awfully tough and you have to give alot in return to get one. It is nieve to think we are going to sign a big named free agent next year. Edmonton is not a hot destination for free a agent due to the weather and travel.

The Oiler's are in a rebuilding mode and we should showcasing talent for next year's team. They should bring up Shremp and Nilsson and see what they can do.

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03-04-2007, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by edmonton_ice View Post
The Oiler's started to rebuild when they didn't attract any big name free agents and when Chris Pronger requested a trade. Trading for a number 1 defenseman is awfully tough and you have to give alot in return to get one. It is naive to think we are going to sign a big named free agent next year. Edmonton is not a hot destination for free a agent due to the weather and travel.
Not to mention a reputation of being hard to negotiate with (ie cheap). Hopefully we can start a bunch of youngsters mixed with good vets for next year. Only teams like Detroit, seem to do well in the later rounds with tremendous picks. Thus I don't mind being near the bottom next year if we can get another top 5 pick.

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03-04-2007, 11:09 PM
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The only way we get big names here are via trade. It's the same thing with Pronger and Peca. Trade for them and hope you can convince 'em to stay.

Hopefull we have better luck than with Prongs/Peca.

I target one of the TB guys, especially if htey tank it. Be it Boyle/Richards/StLouis/Lecavalier.

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03-05-2007, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by edmonton_ice View Post
The Oiler's started to rebuild when they didn't attract any big name free agents and when Chris Pronger requested a trade. Trading for a number 1 defenseman is awfully tough and you have to give alot in return to get one. It is nieve to think we are going to sign a big named free agent next year. Edmonton is not a hot destination for free a agent due to the weather and travel.

The Oiler's are in a rebuilding mode and we should showcasing talent for next year's team. They should bring up Shremp and Nilsson and see what they can do.
We can't this season. League rules state that we can only bring in X amount of AHL players up. Its not the Oilers fault that they can't call up Schremp and Nilsson this season (unless its an emergency).

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03-05-2007, 01:08 AM
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I wanted the Oilers to sell last year and start rebuilding. Alas, they didn't and almost won the Stanley Cup.

But now after being forced to trade Pronger and Smyth - I'm even more for it. It's time to tank, go for prospects and start over fresh.

Look at Philadelphia, they just reloaded like nobodies business.

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03-05-2007, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by edmonton_ice View Post
The Oiler's started to rebuild when they didn't attract any big name free agents and when Chris Pronger requested a trade. Trading for a number 1 defenseman is awfully tough and you have to give alot in return to get one. It is nieve to think we are going to sign a big named free agent next year. Edmonton is not a hot destination for free a agent due to the weather and travel.

The Oiler's are in a rebuilding mode and we should showcasing talent for next year's team. They should bring up Shremp and Nilsson and see what they can do.
According to the CBA, they can't.
After the trade deadline, each team has up to 4 call-ups, Oilers are maxed-out.

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03-05-2007, 07:22 AM
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What about if we cut Nedved? Could we call someone up then?? Emergency wouldn't be a bad way to put it with Stoll/Reasoner/Hemsky all out!

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03-05-2007, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Game 8 View Post
For those of us who do not like our "rebuilding mode" please consider the following points.

- We have never drafted low in the entry draft for an extended period. Now you may say the smart teams do not have to but I would like you to show me one. Any dominant team in the league over the past 20 years (besides us) has remained at the bottom of the league for a four year plus period before becoming dominant.
I believe we had a string of top 10 picks including a few top 6 picks in the 90s. Yeah it was 1993 to 1996, that is 4 draft years in a row and we had - get this 5 picks in the top 7 (!!!!) during those 4 years (One acquired by trade).

I am not disagreeing with you overall but if you draft like crap you will not be dominant and we were far from dominant since then despite drafting what should been 5 star players.

I know you covered some of that stuff but I had to get that out anyway

I think now that we are drafting a lot better now and that does make a difference. At times we have overrated a bit just how great our cupboard is filled but having said that it is by far the best group of prospects IMO that we have had in a long time. I think if Lowe can make a trade and a good UFA acquisition or two and we can squeak into the playoffs next year or two (if Lowe plays his cards right I think we can have it both ways - playoffs plus a little rebuild), all the while gaining some experience for our young guys then we will be looking at a strong team a couple years from now.

I do like the template of Buffalo for instance, they have their cupboard stocked so full they can lose a guy like JP Dumont (for no return) for example and not miss a beat, in fact they only got better. Buffalo can also go through a big rash of injuries and are so deep they can plug the holes and not even slip in the standings. I said before the Smytty trade it looked like we did not have much of a game plan with a handful of win now vets mixed with a handful of win later rookies with that trade at least I can start to see a clearer picture of what we trying to build towards instead of being stuck halfway all the time and not getting much better now and not being much better later.


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Old
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
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According to the CBA, they can't.
After the trade deadline, each team has up to 4 call-ups, Oilers are maxed-out.
You can bet that something like this wouldn't stop a GM like Lou or Burke from getting their players up. I still think we put everyone playing hurt on the IR and bring up the kids.

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03-05-2007, 11:56 AM
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callighenfan
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Remind me when Detroit and New Jersey last drafted in the top five? Buffalo? And remind me again how Atlanta's doing? And how many Cups has Ottawa won?

You rebuild by having an organization that allows you to make the most of whatever position you're in. Strong scouting, great coaching, smart personnel management, opportunistic trading and free agent moves, and (ahem) a good minor-league pipeline are the keys.

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03-05-2007, 08:42 PM
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Game 8
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
I believe we had a string of top 10 picks including a few top 6 picks in the 90s. Yeah it was 1993 to 1996, that is 4 draft years in a row and we had - get this 5 picks in the top 7 (!!!!) during those 4 years (One acquired by trade).

I am not disagreeing with you overall but if you draft like crap you will not be dominant and we were far from dominant since then despite drafting what should been 5 star players.

I know you covered some of that stuff but I had to get that out anyway

I think now that we are drafting a lot better now and that does make a difference. At times we have overrated a bit just how great our cupboard is filled but having said that it is by far the best group of prospects IMO that we have had in a long time. I think if Lowe can make a trade and a good UFA acquisition or two and we can squeak into the playoffs next year or two (if Lowe plays his cards right I think we can have it both ways - playoffs plus a little rebuild), all the while gaining some experience for our young guys then we will be looking at a strong team a couple years from now.

I do like the template of Buffalo for instance, they have their cupboard stocked so full they can lose a guy like JP Dumont (for no return) for example and not miss a beat, in fact they only got better. Buffalo can also go through a big rash of injuries and are so deep they can plug the holes and not even slip in the standings. I said before the Smytty trade it looked like we did not have much of a game plan with a handful of win now vets mixed with a handful of win later rookies with that trade at least I can start to see a clearer picture of what we trying to build towards instead of being stuck halfway all the time and not getting much better now and not being much better later.

Good point are correct on the drafting Oilerdiehard, my recollection of this period is we just didn't draft that well. We got Smyth out of the deal but missed many other opportunities, I also think it is important to draft well outside of the first round, as your stars will be free agents before the team does anything without a good supporting cast. I'm just tired of the mediocrity, last year gave me a taste again of what great hockey feels like and I would like to have that luxury for a few years in a row. A total different concept would be watching the other teams jostle to see who plays us..

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03-05-2007, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by callighenfan View Post
Remind me when Detroit and New Jersey last drafted in the top five? Buffalo? And remind me again how Atlanta's doing? And how many Cups has Ottawa won?

You rebuild by having an organization that allows you to make the most of whatever position you're in. Strong scouting, great coaching, smart personnel management, opportunistic trading and free agent moves, and (ahem) a good minor-league pipeline are the keys.
Wow, how long have you been a fan? Buffalo was at the bottom of the league just 3-4 years ago. In fact, they would provide a perfect example for the original posters argument.

The foundations of Detroits success were built when they sucked in the early 90's picking up the likes of Yzerman, who was there franchise player through the years that they won the cup.

Colorado - same thing with Sakic and Forsberg.

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03-05-2007, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by callighenfan View Post
Remind me when Detroit and New Jersey last drafted in the top five? Buffalo? And remind me again how Atlanta's doing? And how many Cups has Ottawa won?

You rebuild by having an organization that allows you to make the most of whatever position you're in. Strong scouting, great coaching, smart personnel management, opportunistic trading and free agent moves, and (ahem) a good minor-league pipeline are the keys.
Detroit: Yzerman was a high pick, 4th I think. Other than that you are correct, they have done an exceptional job, very rare. Great scouts who are able to get talent in the later rounds, Nick Lidstrom 53 pick in 1989. Once upon a time we had a niece as well in Finland.

New Jersey: Many assets drafted early in the first round. Granted most of them are gone, so they are living on good asset management and reasonable drafting in the later picks. New Jersey has if not the best, one of the best scouting staffs in the league. You can trade Stars for prospects and delay the unavoidable, but eventually it catches up with you. We played this game for as long as anyone considering we couldn't draft a player for many years.

Buffalo: You've got me there, but haven't they been in the tank for a long time??? I don't want to live there, just go down for a year or two and come out loaded for bear.

Atlanta, Ottawa: Just because you go down there doesn't guarantee success. You need Great Scouts, who can not only pick gems at the top but in the subsequent rounds as well. If you have great scouts why do you need to go there? My thoughts are teams are to well covered now a days to get World Class Players by surprise. When we got Kurri, Tikannen from Finland very few scouts were covering their hockey at the time. That isn't the case anymore.


I totally agree with you last point, I do want to see some top talent on the team to build around though. At least thats my dream!! I hope our scouting staff is good enough to keep the pipeline going after we start to climb the standings. And I think they would do a great job given the opportunity. I would hate to see us struggle every year to make the playoffs, and then tell war stories about the year we went to game seven of the finals.

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Old
03-06-2007, 12:37 AM
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Wow, how long have you been a fan? Buffalo was at the bottom of the league just 3-4 years ago. In fact, they would provide a perfect example for the original posters argument.
Apparently longer than you. The highest pick Buffalo has had in the last ten years was fifth, and they've only had two top-ten picks since Pierre Turgeon (who won them how many Cups again?) went first overall in 1987.

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Originally Posted by Russian Rocket
The foundations of Detroits success were built when they sucked in the early 90's picking up the likes of Yzerman, who was there franchise player through the years that they won the cup.
Yzerman was drafted fourth overall in 1983, only three spots off their pick in 1984, the immortal Shawn Burr, and three in the other direction off their 1986 pick, Joe "The Franchise" Murphy. Again, point is, having high picks does not guarantee you a successful rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Russian Rocket
Colorado - same thing with Sakic and Forsberg.
Sakic was drafted fifteenth overall. Forsberg was drafted sixth, sure—by the Flyers. Would Eric Lindros have brought them Cup glory? I have my doubts.

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03-06-2007, 01:33 AM
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Sakic was drafted fifteenth overall. Forsberg was drafted sixth, sure—by the Flyers. Would Eric Lindros have brought them Cup glory? I have my doubts.
while i agree with your general idea that "high draft picks =! garanteed great picks", a healthy lindros probably would have brought a couple cups to colorado, juts like forsberg did.... when lindros was healthy he was the most physically dominant scoring forward i have ever seen play the game

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03-06-2007, 03:46 AM
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I have this suspicious feeling that we as fans are going to find out this summer that there are no big name UFA's coing our way. I'm pretty sure that we are going to play a bunch of the youngsters, to break them in, and because next year is an extremely deep draft. I really won't be too surprised to see us enter next season with much the same lineup we are witnessing now. It seemed that KLowe avoided mentioning picking up any players in the offseason to make us more competetive for next year. Maybe I'm just paranoid that we're rebuilding, and haven't been told yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.
If that happens, I'm afraid fans will be screaming for Lowe's head

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03-06-2007, 09:27 AM
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while i agree with your general idea that "high draft picks =! garanteed great picks", a healthy lindros probably would have brought a couple cups to colorado, juts like forsberg did.... when lindros was healthy he was the most physically dominant scoring forward i have ever seen play the game
Maybe... not much of a leader, by all reports, but then again they also had Sakic.

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