Well, if you want to use statistics to determine how good a player is..
Dustin Brown has 200+ hits, and no King is even close to that number. If youre saying that Dustin Brown is a fourth line player youre kinda crazy.
I believe some of you have pointed out that his hits don't really generate anything but some ooh's and aah's from the crowd, and right now that's all he brings to the table.
I believe some of you have pointed out that his hits don't really generate anything but some ooh's and aah's from the crowd, and right now that's all he brings to the table.
That's silly. Nobody oohs or aahs any more. It's whooo.
I believe some of you have pointed out that his hits don't really generate anything but some ooh's and aah's from the crowd, and right now that's all he brings to the table.
Are you kidding me? Believe whatever you want but any defenceman going into the corner after a dump in is going to be a little more worried and a little more panicked when they see Brown coming down on them than when say Cammy is coming on the forecheck. That leads to giveaways, and makes defenceman less willing to go back for pucks in the corner. Not to mention the fact that a big hit will often change the momentum of a game, which is a huge part of the game. Finally, he pisses other players off with his hits and often players take penalties on him even if he is not a true agitator.
Are you kidding me? Believe whatever you want but any defenceman going into the corner after a dump in is going to be a little more worried and a little more panicked when they see Brown coming down on them than when say Cammy is coming on the forecheck. That leads to giveaways, and makes defenceman less willing to go back for pucks in the corner. Not to mention the fact that a big hit will often change the momentum of a game, which is a huge part of the game. Finally, he pisses other players off with his hits and often players take penalties on him even if he is not a true agitator.
Are you kidding me? Believe whatever you want but any defenceman going into the corner after a dump in is going to be a little more worried and a little more panicked when they see Brown coming down on them than when say Cammy is coming on the forecheck. That leads to giveaways, and makes defenceman less willing to go back for pucks in the corner. Not to mention the fact that a big hit will often change the momentum of a game, which is a huge part of the game. Finally, he pisses other players off with his hits and often players take penalties on him even if he is not a true agitator.
Yes I realize that's what the hits are supposed to do. But I don't see Brown's hits causing a giveaway that often, or changing the momentum. Hopefully they will become more effective in time.
the leafs just gave tucker a 4 year $12 million contract for scoring 6 even strength goals with the worst +/ - on the team, and they treat him like god in toronto. Just trying to say things could be worse.
Darcy has missed 26 games this season and STILL has an outside shot at 30 goals, he has 5 20+ goal seasons and is on his way to a 6th, he got paid slightly above $1.5 million this season, and he's just about as good as anyone for what he does... i think he's earned his money.
just trying to say things could be worse in Toronto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceoffsRLikeWins4Us
Well, if you want to use statistics to determine how good a player is..
Dustin Brown has 200+ hits, and no King is even close to that number. If youre saying that Dustin Brown is a fourth line player youre kinda crazy.
and of those 200+ hits, name ONE that has created a loose puck, a turnover, or led to a scoring chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrivateFubar
If the Kings get a new coach that understands how to build line chemistry on this team and Brown still has 2 even strength goals this far into next season, then post your complaint.
Otherwise...
yawn
yeah, it's Marc Crawford... yawn!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WpgKings13
Well, I am going to try to defend this as I am huge Brown fan, but I fully agree that 2 ES goals is terrible. His offense is not there yet.
Name - ES Goals - Avg Ice - GP - G-A-PTS - +/-
Patrice Bergeron - 7 - 20:49 - 60 - 18-40-58 - -21
Darcy Tucker - 6 - 18:08 - 40 - 19-12-31 - -13
Dustin Brown - 2 - 18:07 - 64 - 11-20-31 - -20
Sergei Brylin - 6 - 17:41 - 66 - 13-21-34 - -5
Michael Ryder - 8 - 16:19 - 68 - 22-23-45 - -24
Yah, nobody has quite been as bad as Brown, and I think the telling fact is the +/- among these "PP specialists".
Bergeron is younger.
Tucker is better.
Brylin has 3 Stanley Cups.
Ryder insofar has averaged 27 goals a season.
i'm sorry, but i think the most applicable comparison to Dustin Brown right now is Sean Avery.
Yes I realize that's what the hits are supposed to do. But I don't see Brown's hits causing a giveaway that often, or changing the momentum. Hopefully they will become more effective in time.
The hit on Erat after Erat gave Kopitar that cheap shot changed the momentum. Theres one example for you.
Certainly you aren't telling me that of those 200+ hits that ONE HASN'T created one of those things. Come on now.
maybe not...
but what i AM certainly telling you is that it's been approximately 410 days since January 19th, 2006... his LAST memorable hit that did any of those things.
Brown is and will be the tough physical guy on the top-6.
A top-6 player isn't always the flash and dance 30 goal scorers. It is also the tough guy doing the work in the corners and playing the body so the skills guy can have room to play.
Nothing wrong with that... Physical guys who are good enough for the top-6 aren't exactly common...
His +/- is also pretty horrendous, and for the most part of the season he's been playing with Kopitar. He still has a lot of maturing and A LOT to learn with his play outside of the one thing he is good at, hitting.
but what i AM certainly telling you is that it's been approximately 410 days since January 19th, 2006... his LAST memorable hit that did any of those things.
Um, no I don't think so. You think his production is too low for the ice time he's received, fair enough. Probably not to your advantage to get carried away with the hyperbole, especially if you end up having to take it back immedaitely.
His +/- is also pretty horrendous, and for the most part of the season he's been playing with Kopitar. He still has a lot of maturing and A LOT to learn with his play outside of the one thing he is good at, hitting.
Guy is making a big leap this year. Heck I remember a few games ago we go into OT down a man and the only Kings forward on the Ice to start overtime is Brown...
Has to tell you how the coaching staff thing of is game if he is the first forward you put out in OT when you are in a PK situation...
[QUOTE=wabwat;8386807]Darcy has missed 26 games this season and STILL has an outside shot at 30 goals, he has 5 20+ goal seasons and is on his way to a 6th, he got paid slightly above $1.5 million this season, and he's just about as good as anyone for what he does... i think he's earned his money.
just trying to say things could be worse in Toronto.
I'm not going to make a big deal about this, but i know many leaf fans that would love to take Brown for Tucker. I unfortunately have to show every leaf game at my bar and can tell you Tucker is one of the most overrated players on the leafs. Brown is someone who has a lot of potential for us. He's still young and he is tough as nails and can be a 30 goal scorer with the right mindframe.
Next season will be telling of what Brown will become and where he will fit in. He will be entering the final year of his second pro contract and still has a lot to prove.
Um, no I don't think so. You think his production is too low for the ice time he's received, fair enough. Probably not to your advantage to get carried away with the hyperbole, especially if you end up having to take it back immedaitely.
where's the hyperbole?
i gave you an exact date. if someone is able to correct me, then i stand corrected... pretty simple.
and of those 200+ hits, name ONE that has created a loose puck, a turnover, or led to a scoring chance.
Name the last time Vis blasted one from the point to score? Or Sean Burke robbed someone to change the momentum? Or Raitis Ivanans had a fighting win? If you can't then I've made my point, and if you do good job. I would call that selective memory, as you are either really naive or really stupid to think that his hits do not do that. Believe it or not, ask any defenseman and having somebody bearing down like Brown does is not fun, and it leads to turnovers and scoring chances, even if they do not happen as a direct result of the hit. He moves the pucker quicker than he would like, and then the next time will move it even faster, making turnovers. It is not all about the now, and Brown's reputation as a fierce hitter is as useful as his actual hits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat
Bergeron is younger.
Tucker is better.
Brylin has 3 Stanley Cups.
Ryder insofar has averaged 27 goals a season.
If you had even bothered to read my post I said myself that Brown's production was not what it needed to be. I was just throwing out some numbers, and letting people know that PP specialists can be useful. I never said Brown was better than any of them.
I'm not going to make a big deal about this, but i know many leaf fans that would love to take Brown for Tucker. I unfortunately have to show every leaf game at my bar and can tell you Tucker is one of the most overrated players on the leafs. Brown is someone who has a lot of potential for us. He's still young and he is tough as nails and can be a 30 goal scorer with the right mindframe.
that's called the grass is always greener syndrome... i promise you that Darcy Tucker has exponentially more hockey acumen than Dustin Brown has.
my issues with Dustin actually have far less to do with his numbers than they do with his sense.
Name the last time Vis blasted one from the point to score? Or Sean Burke robbed someone to change the momentum? Or Raitis Ivanans had a fighting win? If you can't then I've made my point, and if you do good job. I would call that selective memory, as you are either really naive or really stupid to think that his hits do not do that. Believe it or not, ask any defenseman and having somebody bearing down like Brown does is not fun, and it leads to turnovers and scoring chances, even if they do not happen as a direct result of the hit. He moves the pucker quicker than he would like, and then the next time will move it even faster, making turnovers. It is not all about the now, and Brown's reputation as a fierce hitter is as useful as his actual hits.
If you had even bothered to read my post I said myself that Brown's production was not what it needed to be. I was just throwing out some numbers, and letting people know that PP specialists can be useful. I never said Brown was better than any of them.
yeah, that's it... i'm BOTH naive AND stupid.
comparing players is not only subjective, it's bad news. but if you feel the need, try this one...
Next season will be telling of what Brown will become and where he will fit in. He will be entering the final year of his second pro contract and still has a lot to prove.
Agreed. But I think we should remember that next season he is still so incredibly young that he would be the age that many overly hyped prospects would be getting their first NHL games and people would still be talking about how good they will be.
We need to see what type of player Brown is at 26 when he is a fully matured NHL player. He is still developing his game (and that is all parts of the game).
But you will notice that each year Brown is given a little more responsibility on the ice. Each year he starts to prove that he should be on the PK and in difficult situations and that he is not just a big hitter. Guy is starting to play a full all-around game. Something I don't think he knew how to play at the beginning of his career.
If anything I like a player who shows they listen to coaches and are not just on the ice to show offense (see lots of over-hype prospects like say YL and Sully)...
That's nice he probably was. Never seen him play personally. Maybe Brown turns out nothing better than that guy, I do not have a crystal ball. We are not talking about the offense, or even how good Brown is here. We are talking about his hits doing nothing for the team, which I think is just stupid. Any player than hits hard and often like Brown leads to some turnovers and can change the momentum. Maybe Brown is gone from the NHL by 2008-09 for all I know, does not change anything about his hitting.
The thing about Brown is that everyone knows that he has all the tools to be a 2nd line winger but he plays like a third liner. I don't think he tries to get himself into scoring areas enough and most of his shots are Avery type wrist shots into the goalies chest. I think the main problem with D. Brown is his mindset.
One of the best post I've ever seem on Brown, well said. He doesn't get himself in scoring areas. Look how many shots he takes from just outside the scoring areas. Sure he can give a hit but it doesn't seem like he's willing to pay the price for scoring goals down low. If Cammy who's 5 ft nothing is willing to pay the price, Brown needs to step up.
