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Digital Offsides

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Old
12-12-2003, 01:01 PM
  #1
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Digital Offsides

Would you support an electronically monitored off sides system where a chip or detector would be on the players as well as developed with the puck that could tell if the play was offsides or not. Then you take the linesmen off the ice, and leave the 2 ref system to call icing.

Just curious what people's views are of the technology, trusting or not, and what they benefits or disadvantages people think it'd have.

If it had the accuracy, there would be no questions on offsides calls, although a small thing, could still be beneficial getting 2 men off the skating surface.

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12-12-2003, 01:03 PM
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You would need a chip in each skate, also, how when they tell if the skate was on the ice or not?

Doesnt seem like it would work to me.

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12-12-2003, 01:14 PM
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Its a %^&* game, not the code to launch nuclear missiles!

Why stop at offsides? Let's just clone the ideal hockey players and have the "perfect game". :p


Last edited by Trottier: 12-12-2003 at 03:01 PM.
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12-12-2003, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
You would need a chip in each skate, also, how when they tell if the skate was on the ice or not?

Doesnt seem like it would work to me.
Don't worry so much about setting it up, it could be done. I'm talking about the concept.

I like the idea, because you would have a very black and white situation with offsides, and I think you need more definitive rules at times when a ref just can't see everything from every angle.

Furthermore, take the goal judges out of the equation and also make digital goals so there is no debate on if a goal is scored and the way the time is set and all of that. Not as much review required if the system is set and functioning.

If the technology worked well enough, it could be expanded in various areas of the game. For instance, I'm not sure how they monitor who is on the ice or not, but someone/thing does. That could also be tracked. There are a lot of things that could be tracked as well as monitored with this technology.


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12-12-2003, 01:32 PM
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Hell no. You need human eyes to call the lines. Not only that, I don't think the players would approve of having their equipment altered.

And as for removing goal judges...that gets a "hell no" too. By doing this, you have to put chips in pucks, which means that the pucks cannot be frozen, which then affects the game itself. Remember the Fox Puck that made it glare on TV? The players had that project done away with because they couldn't control the non-frozen computerized pucks.

Technology is nice and all....but at what point do we stop sacrificing the tradition that made the game of hockey the greatest game on the planet?

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12-12-2003, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Technology is nice and all....but at what point do we stop sacrificing the tradition that made the game of hockey the greatest game on the planet?
As I've tried to emphasize in my posts, consider the hassles are cured and there is a system that keeps the game essentially the same as now (frozen puck, unnoticed chips-microscopic).

The essential concept is what I question, and only 1/2 of the people have commented on that.

I'm not talking about the invention of the wheel here, but merely the usefulness of it.

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12-12-2003, 01:39 PM
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What a joke...

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12-12-2003, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by evman150
What a joke...
Wow, negativity from a poster like you. How original compared to the others you've spilled.

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12-12-2003, 02:07 PM
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I think its a great idea, with the proper implementation, set up the nets too, with a chip in the puck to know if the pucks really in when you cant see it beneath those bohemith goalies.

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12-12-2003, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Hell no. You need human eyes to call the lines. Not only that, I don't think the players would approve of having their equipment altered.

And as for removing goal judges...that gets a "hell no" too. By doing this, you have to put chips in pucks, which means that the pucks cannot be frozen, which then affects the game itself. Remember the Fox Puck that made it glare on TV? The players had that project done away with because they couldn't control the non-frozen computerized pucks.

Technology is nice and all....but at what point do we stop sacrificing the tradition that made the game of hockey the greatest game on the planet?
No offense Van, but your ARE an official. Your stand on this issue is influenced by that.

The technology does exist to correctly put a sensor in the puck that can be frozen and not alter its characteristics in any humanly detectable way. I think it can and should be implemented for offsides and goal crease determinations. The technology could make millisecond readings on the status of the net cage, the puck in relation to the edge of the goal line, etc.

In essence, I am in favor of anything to reduce the subjectivity of officiating. Subjectivity and the bias of individual officials hurt the game more than overspending GMs by far.

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12-12-2003, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCJr
I think its a great idea, with the proper implementation, set up the nets too, with a chip in the puck to know if the pucks really in when you cant see it beneath those bohemith goalies.
I've always wondered about those times the goalie has the puck and is deep in the net. Technically some of those cases would not be saves but goals, but you can't see it. Talk about ways of improving the scoring, accountability for the goals scored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
In essence, I am in favor of anything to reduce the subjectivity of officiating. Subjectivity and the bias of individual officials hurt the game more than overspending GMs by far.
Again, this is my point as well. The subjectivity of the officiating can have a huge impact.

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12-12-2003, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
I've always wondered about those times the goalie has the puck and is deep in the net. Technically some of those cases would not be saves but goals, but you can't see it. Talk about ways of improving the scoring, accountability for the goals scored.
Amen...
The way i see it, if its in its in...if its an offside why not be 100% accurate, trust me if there was a way of making officials accurate on every call, id be for it.

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12-12-2003, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
Wow, negativity from a poster like you. How original compared to the others you've spilled.
Whatever buddy.

I just don't believe we need to further "Americanize" the game. If we're going to get rid of linesmen, why not referees? Hell, why not players and coaches? Where is the line drawn?

Cities like Phoenix, Nashville, Atlanta, Raleigh etc get hockey, now they want to change the game. Well you know what? It's not yours to change.

I have a good idea. Let's let the cities mentioned implement these idiotic gimmicks to satisfy their fans, while the rest of us can enjoy hockey the way it's meant to be played.

Enough.

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12-12-2003, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Why stop ar offsides? Let's just clone the ideal hockey players and have the "perfect game". :p
As long as they play for the Preds

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12-12-2003, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
No offense Van, but your ARE an official. Your stand on this issue is influenced by that.
Damn rights. I won't shy away from that, and neither will any other official...especially those currently supporting their families by working NHL games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
In essence, I am in favor of anything to reduce the subjectivity of officiating. Subjectivity and the bias of individual officials hurt the game more than overspending GMs by far.
The "subjectivity of officiating" is the way it has been since day one. Officiating is and always has been based on judgment and discretion of those in charge. Rulebooks throughout time have been written in order to give those officials the power of judgment and discretion.

...And to suggest that NHL officials are biased and ruin the game more than escalating salaries do is absolutely insane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
Again, this is my point as well. The subjectivity of the officiating can have a huge impact.
Yes it can....but guess what, that's life. Officiating in hockey has never been based on "black and white" calls. It has always been about judgment and discretion.

For example...I called a bantam game last week. It was a 0-0 tie through overtime and was decided by a shootout. I called one penalty during the entire game, which was a blatant Interference call only a minute in. I could have called probably 10-15 other infractions which nobody would have complained about, but I didn't because my discretion told me that calling those penalties would have served no purpose. I officiated the game using my discretion....the way the game was meant to be officiated when hockey was invented.

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12-12-2003, 02:54 PM
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Another thing about the pucks and nets having chips to turn the light on for goals....

Will the light go on when the chip inside the non-frozen puck crosses the line, or will the light go on when the entire puck crosses the goal line, which is what must happen for a goal to be scored?

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12-12-2003, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
You're attacking the argument by pointing at where the poster is from... what does that have to do with anything? So if someone isn't from Canada, his ideas aren't to be considered by default? Ridiculous counter-argument.
Has nothing to do with where the poster is from.

But can you honestly tell me that traditional hockey hockey markets are just as susceptible to gimmicks as non-tradional markets are?

That is my point.

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12-12-2003, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
I've always wondered about those times the goalie has the puck and is deep in the net. Technically some of those cases would not be saves but goals, but you can't see it. Talk about ways of improving the scoring, accountability for the goals scored.

Again, this is my point as well. The subjectivity of the officiating can have a huge impact.
See the amazingly positive effect the "big brother" balls/strikes eye-on-the-ump has had on baseball. :p

Curt Schilling was spot-on bashing the %^&* out of one. The officiating in hockey is imperfect, but waaaaaay overblown on these boards. You'd think everyone here was a gambler, with this talk of "ref subjectivity".

To answer your question directly, and it's a fair one, this observer would vehemently oppose it. and, I take exception (in a friendly way, of course) with your characterization that it would not be re-inventing the wheel. On the contrary, it would be a major change in the sport, and one that is not at all necessary, IMO.

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12-12-2003, 03:13 PM
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I don't see how it would work, but there is a particular day in the Spring of 1980 that it would have made a HUGE difference.

Wouldn't you agree, Trottier ???

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12-12-2003, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI
Of course traditional markets would be less approving of change. It's the "good ol' days" effect. But you're calling this a gimmick again without providing any real reason of why it's a gimmick.
Anything electronic or "next generation" is gimmicky.

Using computer chips in skates and ice and pucks and nets is very gimmicky.

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12-12-2003, 04:37 PM
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Not to say that electronifying the game isn't gimmicky, I look at it as part of the evolution of sports. Eventually rules change, the game played today is not the game played 100 years ago, if you want, go check out the rules that have changed the past century. In the next century it'll be a different game than it ever was before. That's all besides the point.

Why did they need to start keeping track of time for the fans to see?

Why did they decide to switch from 7 on 7 to 6 on 6?
Why did they change minor penalties from 3 minutes to 2 minutes?
Why did they change power plays from ending after full time passed?

Why are goalies allowed to fall to the ice to make a save?
Why are goalies allowed to pass the puck?

Why did they start keeping track of assists?

Why are players allowed to pass behind themselves now?

Why has the game gone from 12 skates and a goalie per team to 21 skaters and 2 goalies a game now?

I won't go on, but those are a lot of changes to the game in 100 years, and most of those changes only happened over a 15 year span themself for the most part.

Technology entering the game is just part of the same evolution. You can say to never change the game, but you are watching a changed game today. We can go back to not televising games, and simplifying the technology if you want to go retro. I'd prefer to advance with the generation.

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12-12-2003, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCoyotes
Not to say that electronifying the game isn't gimmicky, I look at it as part of the evolution of sports. Eventually rules change, the game played today is not the game played 100 years ago, if you want, go check out the rules that have changed the past century. In the next century it'll be a different game than it ever was before. That's all besides the point.

Why did they need to start keeping track of time for the fans to see?

Why did they decide to switch from 7 on 7 to 6 on 6?
Why did they change minor penalties from 3 minutes to 2 minutes?
Why did they change power plays from ending after full time passed?

Why are goalies allowed to fall to the ice to make a save?
Why are goalies allowed to pass the puck?

Why did they start keeping track of assists?

Why are players allowed to pass behind themselves now?

Why has the game gone from 12 skates and a goalie per team to 21 skaters and 2 goalies a game now?

I won't go on, but those are a lot of changes to the game in 100 years, and most of those changes only happened over a 15 year span themself for the most part.

Technology entering the game is just part of the same evolution. You can say to never change the game, but you are watching a changed game today. We can go back to not televising games, and simplifying the technology if you want to go retro. I'd prefer to advance with the generation.
The evolution of the game is separate from introducing technology into the game at the levels you wish to.

All the rule change examples you gave are examples of changes to the actual gameplay. Technology had nothing whatsoever to do with these changes.

"Advancing with the generation" is not adding computer chips into pucks, nets and player equipment. That has nothing to do with the rules the game is played under. "Advancing with the generation" is making rule changes like the ones you are trying to use as a reason to incorporate more technology.

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Old
12-12-2003, 04:54 PM
  #23
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I think we should use the digital offsides system, implant electrodes into hockey pants, and zap the hell out of any player that enters the zone before the puck.

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12-12-2003, 10:25 PM
  #24
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get rid of off-sides. It will increase scoring



it did in NHL 2004


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12-12-2003, 10:35 PM
  #25
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Heck yeah, make as much as they can electronic.

I'm sick to death of inept officials making bad calls costing teams games.

BTW, electronics work better in the cold.

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