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Quick look back at last summer...Samsonov signing

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Old
03-09-2007, 09:55 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
They mentioned the same thing on RDS last night.

Now here's my question...

Perez leads team in +/- (not the greatest stat - but does show something about his play)

and

Sammy leads team in 5vs5 points.


Yet who are 2 of the coach's favorite whipping boys. Things that make you go hmmmmm
Yep - things that make you go "Hmmm...maybe some stats really are irrelevant."

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03-09-2007, 10:07 AM
  #27
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Silly to think that way. Hind sight is 20/20 and it's easy to criticize a move 6 months after it happened. This type of bandwagon talk disgusts me!
The thing is, no one could of predicted at the beginning of the season that Sammy would be a bust. That said - i think it's a good thing to look back at the decisions a couple of months later and do a postmortem to see how this could of impacted the team.

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03-09-2007, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexMeth View Post
The thing is, no one could of predicted at the beginning of the season that Sammy would be a bust. That said - i think it's a good thing to look back at the decisions a couple of months later and do a postmortem to see how this could of impacted the team.
I did, actually.

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03-09-2007, 10:28 AM
  #29
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When he signed Colin White to that big contract, everyone said he wouldn't be able to re-sign Elias, yet he did. Just one example.

Plus, take a look at the standings. It's pretty clear.
Wonderful, now how does this pertain to Dumont and the Habs? Explain to me...in hindsight...what Gainey could've done to free up 2.5-3 million to sign Dumont when he was available. Don't talk about not signing Samsonov or getting Ninny because both of those thing where done at the time.

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03-09-2007, 10:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Silly to think that way. Hind sight is 20/20 and it's easy to criticize a move 6 months after it happened. This type of bandwagon talk disgusts me!
Most of us criticized the move last summer, when Samsonov was signed, and once again, when Dumont became available.

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03-09-2007, 10:35 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Wonderful, now how does this pertain to Dumont and the Habs? Explain to me...in hindsight...what Gainey could've done to free up 2.5-3 million to sign Dumont when he was available. Don't talk about not signing Samsonov or getting Ninny because both of those thing where done at the time.
niinimaa was NOT acquired when Dumont became UFA. He was acquired at the end of the training camp.

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03-09-2007, 10:36 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AlexMeth View Post
The thing is, no one could of predicted at the beginning of the season that Sammy would be a bust. That said - i think it's a good thing to look back at the decisions a couple of months later and do a postmortem to see how this could of impacted the team.
Again, I just think 2nd guessing moves made months down the road is counter productive. Either the team has faith in it's GM and his abilities or they don't. If they don't then it's time for him to move on. Crying about things that would've or should've been doesn't help the team today. Doing a post mortem is fine as long as it's not in a "I told you so" fashion.

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03-09-2007, 10:38 AM
  #33
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I hope no one actually thinks that Dumont would have had 57+ points playing with the Habs this year.

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03-09-2007, 10:42 AM
  #34
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niinimaa was NOT acquired when Dumont became UFA. He was acquired at the end of the training camp.
What is your point? We still had Ribero on the books then and still had no cap room. We also knew that we had a couple of defenceman out with injuries so if any money was going to be spent it would've been on defence not another forward.

The funny thing is that there were just as many people saying give the kids a shot, we shouldn't take a spot from Kosti/Grabo/Lats ect. So regardless of all the whining that's going on right now, it didn't happen. Like I said earlier just people that want to say I told you so. Absolute BS!

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03-09-2007, 10:48 AM
  #35
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I hope no one actually thinks that Dumont would have had 57+ points playing with the Habs this year.
Yes he would've been the saviour of the team and we would've won the cup if we signed him!

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03-09-2007, 10:50 AM
  #36
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IMO...Gainey signed Samsonov because of fan/media pressure. I don't think he 'really' wanted to sign Samsonov, as evidenced by the 2 year deal he got. Gainey is not the type to feel pressured into doing anything either, but I think in this situation he wanted to show that he was trying to improve the team.

With Kovalev, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Plekanec...I didn't see the need in signing Samsonov other than having another scoring line player with a right handed shot (which is why I liked the deal at the time, although I admit I didn't know Sammy didn't shoot anymore).

I hope Gainey has learned his lesson for this offseason, target difference makers in free agency (Brière, Drury, Phillips for example) and if he fails to do that, look to promote from within to fill the spots.

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03-09-2007, 10:56 AM
  #37
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When Samsonov signed I think most of us were pretty excited.

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03-09-2007, 10:57 AM
  #38
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I love how hindsight makes all the critics experts.

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03-09-2007, 10:57 AM
  #39
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samsonov was supposed to be a force for us. wait till playoff begins...you'll see what we have in him...

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03-09-2007, 11:00 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I love how hindsight makes all the critics experts.
No kidding...however, I think that when Gainey gave Samsonov a 2 year deal and even mentionned that it would take time for him to get adjusted, you had the feeling that it was either going to work out wonderfully, or be a complete disaster. Looks like the latter has happened.

Anyways, Samsono has another 10 games or so in his forgettable career as a Hab, they'll buy him out guaranteed, unless another Gm is willing to take a chance on him

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03-09-2007, 11:00 AM
  #41
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samsonov was supposed to be a force for us. wait till playoff begins...you'll see what we have in him...
And Kovalev too. He is sooo good during the playoffs

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Old
03-09-2007, 11:03 AM
  #42
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No kidding...however, I think that when Gainey gave Samsonov a 2 year deal and even mentionned that it would take time for him to get adjusted, you had the feeling that it was either going to work out wonderfully, or be a complete disaster. Looks like the latter has happened.

Anyways, Samsono has another 10 games or so in his forgettable career as a Hab, they'll buy him out guaranteed, unless another Gm is willing to take a chance on him
They should buy out Kovalev and Samsonov (lots of $$$$ for nothing), let Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Aebisher, Bonk and Johnson go (to pay for the buy outs); sign cheap UFA's and promote their youngsters !!! The Habs will have a 25 million team with tons and tons of cap space...

Let's re-build for real

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Old
03-09-2007, 11:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Canindian View Post
They should buy out Kovalev and Samsonov (lots of $$$$ for nothing), let Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Aebisher, Bonk and Johnson go (to pay for the buy outs); sign cheap UFA's and promote their youngsters !!! The Habs will have a 25 million team with tons and tons of cap space...

Let's re-build for real
Except you lose cap space upon buying a player out, let alone two...

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03-09-2007, 11:15 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I love how hindsight makes all the critics experts.
My point from the start.

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03-09-2007, 11:21 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I love how hindsight makes all the critics experts.
No kidding. It's so easy to sit back and look at act smug when looking back at moves that didn't work.

As for Samsonov, at the time I thought it was a signing which should have brought us some secondary scoring, although I felt the pricetag was a little high. 3.5 million for a 55 point scorer is quite a bit, but my guess is Sammy was able to command it based on market competition, good playoff run, and reputation.

There was no way of knowing if wingers like Latendresse, Perezhogin or Kostitsyn would be ready to come in on a top 6 role. Or even if Higgins would be able to repeat as a top line guy. These had to be things going into Gainey's mind when he decided to sign him. Other than Ryder and Kovalev, we had no assured scoring from the wingers. Thus bringing in a proven guy like Samsonov seemed like a good move. And for only 2 years, it's not as though he locked himself in to a horrible deal. In fact it should have given us time to groom our younger players while Sammy played the bigger minutes.

Samsonov has underproduced, who could have predicted that? At the time, it's a deal that made quite a bit of sense, despite the hefty pricetag. Again, it's easy to sit back and criticize because it hasn't worked out, but what can you do, things like this happen. As for buying him out, from my understanding doesn't half or even the entire salary count against the cap? If that were the case, tying up 3.5 to a non-existant player wouldn't be good cap management imo.

Finally, the whining about Dumont is nonsensical. He wasn't available when Sammy was signed, and furthermore, it's quite absurd to think he would have 57 points playing on this Habs team. Again, it's difficult to deal in hypotheticals, but I think most people would agree with this assertion.

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Old
03-09-2007, 11:24 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I love how hindsight makes all the critics experts.
Problem is, most of this is one record. Go back to the threads.

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Old
03-09-2007, 11:25 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
No kidding...however, I think that when Gainey gave Samsonov a 2 year deal and even mentionned that it would take time for him to get adjusted, you had the feeling that it was either going to work out wonderfully, or be a complete disaster. Looks like the latter has happened.

Anyways, Samsono has another 10 games or so in his forgettable career as a Hab, they'll buy him out guaranteed, unless another Gm is willing to take a chance on him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canindian View Post
They should buy out Kovalev and Samsonov (lots of $$$$ for nothing), let Souray, Markov, Niinimaa, Aebisher, Bonk and Johnson go (to pay for the buy outs); sign cheap UFA's and promote their youngsters !!! The Habs will have a 25 million team with tons and tons of cap space...

Let's re-build for real
You clearly don't know how buyouts work, because buying out Kovalev would mean a $2.25 million cap hit for the next 4 seasons. Buying out Samsonov would mean a $1.75 million cap hit for the next 2 seasons. So you're proposing that for the next two seasons we lock up $4 million in return for zero players. That's just over 8% of the total cap (assuming it goes to $48 million as speculated). Excellent!

I could possibly see buying out Samsonov, but buying out Kovalev isn't an option. I personally think that we'll keep Samsonov around, hoping that he can rebound next season and hence deal him at the deadline for something (anything). However, I think it'll take a change in our system to get him producing more.. but with Kostitsyn and possibly Grabovsky coming in, along with our premier defensive players on the way out, it would make more sense to move to a more offensive-oriented system.

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03-09-2007, 11:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You clearly don't know how buyouts work, because buying out Kovalev would mean a $2.25 million cap hit for the next 4 seasons. Buying out Samsonov would mean a $1.75 million cap hit for the next 2 seasons. So you're proposing that for the next two seasons we lock up $4 million in return for zero players. That's just over 8% of the total cap (assuming it goes to $48 million as speculated). Excellent!

I could possibly see buying out Samsonov, but buying out Kovalev isn't an option. I personally think that we'll keep Samsonov around, hoping that he can rebound next season and hence deal him at the deadline for something (anything). However, I think it'll take a change in our system to get him producing more.. but with Kostitsyn and possibly Grabovsky coming in, along with our premier defensive players on the way out, it would make more sense to move to a more offensive-oriented system.
I'll be extremely surprised to see Samsonov back next year...Gainey isn't shy about making mistakes, if he can't deal him he'll buy him out. He's just not a fit for this team. As for Kovalev, you're asbsolutely right, there's no way they're buying him out with that type of cap hit. He's here for at least 1 another year.

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03-09-2007, 11:32 AM
  #49
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Personally...I think it's in the Habs best interest in the short to mid term to see what the following players can do at the NHL level for the rest of this year.

Andrei Kostitsyn
J-P Coté
Duncan Milroy
Jonathan Ferland

So they can have a better idea of whether or not any of those players can contribute in whatever role they're destined to be.

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Old
03-09-2007, 03:18 PM
  #50
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Finally, the whining about Dumont is nonsensical. He wasn't available when Sammy was signed, and furthermore, it's quite absurd to think he would have 57 points playing on this Habs team. Again, it's difficult to deal in hypotheticals, but I think most people would agree with this assertion.
Wow... never thought my post came out as "whining". I was just stating the fact that Dumont has now 57 points. He could of been helpful.

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