HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Raffi Torres Depreciation Thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2007, 01:22 PM
  #1
Mowzie
Asst. Dishwasher
 
Mowzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lebanon, Alberta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 8,270
vCash: 500
Raffi Torres Depreciation Thread.

This isnt a total hate-fest post, since I still do think Torres CAN be effective again. But is it just me or does he seem to not bring anything to the table right now. IMO, his 2 calling cards are scoring and hitting. If he can't find his scoring touch, then he should atleast still be effective physically. IMO with the play of Stortini, and the inevitability of Jacques playing a more prominent role next year, I think the writing is on the wall for Torres, and he will be traded this summer.

I don't want to pin point him as a problem, since basically the entire team is struggling right now, but from what I've seen from him lately, he seems to be invisible out there. Him and Lupul often get clumped together since they are the 2 main offensive dissapointments this season, but atleast to me, it seems like there's more try in Lupul's game right now, and he along with Pouliot seem to be the 2 guys getting the bulk of the offensive oppertunities and just aren't getting the bounces.

0 hits in a very physical Anaheim game should be unacceptable. To be fair, there does seem to be a flu going around lately, and he may be effected by it. But if he continues to play dormant, emotionless hockey, I think he might be the first guy to lose his job to one of the rookies.

Thoughts?

Mowzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 01:32 PM
  #2
Oilbleeder
Moderator
Lead us to glory.
 
Oilbleeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,362
vCash: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
This isnt a total hate-fest post, since I still do think Torres CAN be effective again. But is it just me or does he seem to not bring anything to the table right now. IMO, his 2 calling cards are scoring and hitting. If he can't find his scoring touch, then he should atleast still be effective physically. IMO with the play of Stortini, and the inevitability of Jacques playing a more prominent role next year, I think the writing is on the wall for Torres, and he will be traded this summer.

I don't want to pin point him as a problem, since basically the entire team is struggling right now, but from what I've seen from him lately, he seems to be invisible out there. Him and Lupul often get clumped together since they are the 2 main offensive dissapointments this season, but atleast to me, it seems like there's more try in Lupul's game right now, and he along with Pouliot seem to be the 2 guys getting the bulk of the offensive oppertunities and just aren't getting the bounces.

0 hits in a very physical Anaheim game should be unacceptable. To be fair, there does seem to be a flu going around lately, and he may be effected by it. But if he continues to play dormant, emotionless hockey, I think he might be the first guy to lose his job to one of the rookies.

Thoughts?
Yup, i agree, it seems that Torres has potential to be REALLY effective in this league, Hands + Hits = pretty darn effective. But his inconsistency is really costing the team, he knows it, we all know it. If Torres would have been more consistent, scored more goals, and hit a bit more, then the Team would maybe not be in a better position, but still more effective, but this season, he has flat out sucked, just plain sucked. I see him given the rest of this season, and maybe either a quarter or half of next season before he gets traded. I Love Torres, but if he isn't helping the team, i say trade him, his inconsistency is really getting to me, its gotten to the point where its not worth the 20 games he's effective. If he goes though, i do hope e get another forward that scores and hits and has grit like Torres does, its a shame we couldn't add in a bit more to get Okposo out of NYI...

Oilbleeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 01:41 PM
  #3
Other Little Mikey
Registered User
 
Other Little Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,846
vCash: 500
I hope I'm wrong, because I like him, but it's felt to me the last few games like Raffi's pulled the chute on this season. Which is baffling considering his contract status.

Other Little Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 01:42 PM
  #4
Oilerdiehard
Registered User
 
Oilerdiehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
If he does keep his feet moving all the time, hitting regularly and going to the net he is very effective. But he rarely does that, his hitting is inconsistent, he stops skating a lot and just seems to fade off the play too much.

He has overall gotten a little better defensively but he is still prone to those dumb no look back passes to the opposition at our blue line / neutral zone area.

Think of that stretch I think it was around the end of November he was great at both ends of the ice but as usual it was short lived. His slumps seem to come fairly often and usually last around 15 games or more. I have never figured out why he is so useless on the PP either. I know he is a poor passer but he is never put in a situation on the PP where he needs to handle it much. He should be getting more shots and rebound chances than does.

Oilerdiehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 01:44 PM
  #5
Patch101
Registered User
 
Patch101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kamloops
Posts: 1,545
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Patch101 Send a message via AIM to Patch101 Send a message via Yahoo to Patch101
I disagree and I think it all comes from what you expect from Raffi. Raffi is finishing his 3rd NHL season, and while it wasn't his best season he's still very young. Raffi is your 20 goal guy who when motivated can crush people. How effective was he during our playoff run? Without Torres, Peca, Pisani line we wouldn't of gone very far. I've seen it time and time again ... when it comes to playoff time you need gritty players who can score. I think he's an important player in the long-term plan of this team.

Patch101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 01:45 PM
  #6
Replacement
Now with 9% more zen
 
Replacement's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hockey Hell
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
This isnt a total hate-fest post, since I still do think Torres CAN be effective again. But is it just me or does he seem to not bring anything to the table right now. IMO, his 2 calling cards are scoring and hitting. If he can't find his scoring touch, then he should atleast still be effective physically. IMO with the play of Stortini, and the inevitability of Jacques playing a more prominent role next year, I think the writing is on the wall for Torres, and he will be traded this summer.

I don't want to pin point him as a problem, since basically the entire team is struggling right now, but from what I've seen from him lately, he seems to be invisible out there. Him and Lupul often get clumped together since they are the 2 main offensive dissapointments this season, but atleast to me, it seems like there's more try in Lupul's game right now, and he along with Pouliot seem to be the 2 guys getting the bulk of the offensive oppertunities and just aren't getting the bounces.

0 hits in a very physical Anaheim game should be unacceptable. To be fair, there does seem to be a flu going around lately, and he may be effected by it. But if he continues to play dormant, emotionless hockey, I think he might be the first guy to lose his job to one of the rookies.

Thoughts?
meh I'm not really going to judge players on how they look at this precise moment. When the games still kinda mattered on the roadtrip raffi was playing pretty big and was along with Smyth one of the better looking Oilers.

Raffi's only concern would be getting dealt this summer. As for losing his position on this team I don't think so given the few guys we have in the org that can play at this level and bring some version of a physical game.

Raffi on is more of what this team needs to avoid being one of the easiest clubs in the league to play against.

No way do I want to go back to relaying on the forechecking *muscle* of the likes of Marchant, York, Pittisful..

We need forwards like Stoll, Moreau, Pisani, Torres, badly.

ps you were bored and saw me on the board right?


Last edited by Replacement: 03-10-2007 at 01:50 PM.
Replacement is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 02:37 PM
  #7
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,661
vCash: 500
Maybe a package involving Torres for Horton in the offseason

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 02:40 PM
  #8
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 6,050
vCash: 500
I never liked this player. He takes bonehead penalties and can't read plays well enough. He does have a physical presence that few Oilers have so if I trade him I would want a decent return back.

Tyrolean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 03:28 PM
  #9
BleedingOil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
.IMO with the play of Stortini, and the inevitability of Jacques playing a more prominent role next year, I think the writing is on the wall for Torres, and he will be traded this summer.


Thoughts?
What has Stortini done?

BleedingOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 03:32 PM
  #10
Hemskyfanboy83
Registered User
 
Hemskyfanboy83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
I think a common theme with young players who have instant success right when they come into the league, is that it generally takes a poor year for them to take the "next step"

Scoring has come pretty easy to Torres thus far and I expect this year to be a real wakeup call. Add to it power forwards (although he isn't really a power forward) take longer to develop and I am not worried.

If I am Lowe I sign this guy up long term after a sub par season at hopefully a cheap price because I think there is a good chance he hits 30 next year.

Hemskyfanboy83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:11 PM
  #11
Mowzie
Asst. Dishwasher
 
Mowzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lebanon, Alberta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 8,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedingOil View Post
What has Stortini done?
Exactly what a struggling Raffi Torres needs to be doing when his offensive game is non-existent. Make some big hits, bring some energy etc.

Mowzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:14 PM
  #12
Heavy Dee
Registered User
 
Heavy Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,456
vCash: 500
i blame macT partially for this one....sit his ass down and send a message..nope, coach knows best...just like playing our only sniper, 71, with a career minor league checker, TP...

Heavy Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:17 PM
  #13
Mowzie
Asst. Dishwasher
 
Mowzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lebanon, Alberta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 8,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerlova View Post

If I am Lowe I sign this guy up long term after a sub par season at hopefully a cheap price because I think there is a good chance he hits 30 next year.
I hope so, and Im willing to give him the chance, but when Lowe's making phone calls for defenseman and top line forwards, he's going to have to send players the other way. When you factor in that Torres is a RFA, has a reputation around the league that will likely make him more valuable than his worth, and that he really seems to take more off nights than any other Oilerit becomes elementary for Lowe to try to move him for an upgrade.

Mowzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:18 PM
  #14
Mowzie
Asst. Dishwasher
 
Mowzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lebanon, Alberta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 8,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootler View Post
i blame macT partially for this one....sit his ass down and send a message..nope, coach knows best...just like playing our only sniper, 71, with a career minor league checker, TP...
The same minor leaguer who scored our only goal last night? doesn't that earn him a week of immunity on these boards?

The same sniper who wiffed on approximately 34,000 chances last night?

Mowzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:22 PM
  #15
Heavy Dee
Registered User
 
Heavy Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
The same minor leaguer who scored our only goal last night? doesn't that earn him a week of immunity on these boards?

The same sniper who wiffed on approximately 34,000 chances last night?
not sure what you re reading into this. i wasnt slagging TP (he is effective in the right role and the fact he got a goal doesnt change anyone's opinion of him) and i must have been watching a differnet game than you because i didnt see one scoring good chance for the ENTIRE team outside of Peterson's goal...

Heavy Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:26 PM
  #16
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,854
vCash: 500
Here's a scenario to float out there ... Torres for Zherdev straight up.

Zherdev obviously is the bigger talent, but also the bigger headcase and also could be harder to sign in a few years. One of those risk/reward scearios I guess. Zherdev Horcoff Hemsky is a nice front line though (on paper, key word being paper).

Soundwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 04:47 PM
  #17
RiversQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,714
vCash: 500
I think this season from Torres has been a blessing in disguise for the Oilers. Despite the poor counting numbers, Torres has still been a net positive contributor to the Oilers. He gets lumped in with Lupul a lot lately, but their results haven't even been close. This should help the Oilers sign him for cheap and if they can lock him up for 3 yrs at less than $6MM total contract value, he will provide significant value for this club. This is all good news IMO.

RiversQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 08:17 PM
  #18
Psycho Dad
Oil Kings
 
Psycho Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 9,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
I think this season from Torres has been a blessing in disguise for the Oilers. Despite the poor counting numbers, Torres has still been a net positive contributor to the Oilers. He gets lumped in with Lupul a lot lately, but their results haven't even been close. This should help the Oilers sign him for cheap and if they can lock him up for 3 yrs at less than $6MM total contract value, he will provide significant value for this club. This is all good news IMO.
Well said - it's about time the Oilers can re-sign a core member at less than his current value. The fact that this season was a write-off, with or without Tico, was just a bonus.

Psycho Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 08:42 PM
  #19
BleedOil83
Registered User
 
BleedOil83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,118
vCash: 500
I've said for the last two years that we should trade Torres now while his value is high. Obviously after this year he's at an all time low in terms of value. It's not that he doesn't have anything to bring, it's that he hasn't even come close to proving that he can bring it every night. The problem with Torres is consistency, and it always has been. If he played at the top of his game every night, he'd be commanding $4-5M at the end of his next contract, easily. As it stands I'd be disappointed to give him more than $2M right now. Should've traded him last summer.

BleedOil83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 10:05 PM
  #20
Hemskyfanboy83
Registered User
 
Hemskyfanboy83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOil83 View Post
I've said for the last two years that we should trade Torres now while his value is high. Obviously after this year he's at an all time low in terms of value. It's not that he doesn't have anything to bring, it's that he hasn't even come close to proving that he can bring it every night. The problem with Torres is consistency, and it always has been. If he played at the top of his game every night, he'd be commanding $4-5M at the end of his next contract, easily. As it stands I'd be disappointed to give him more than $2M right now. Should've traded him last summer.
So could we not now say sign him while his value is low?

Hemskyfanboy83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 10:25 PM
  #21
Matts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,911
vCash: 500
Jacques and stortini

You'll never find a bigger JFJ fan than me but he's MILES away from being able to assume the role of Torres. Raffi's dummy numbers might be taking a beat but he's playing a bigger role matchup wise then he ever has before and he's doing a decent job of it to boot. Meanwhile JFJ is -10 playing against no one and has a long way to go to be anything near a top niner.

as for stortini, seems like a good cat and is up for the physical part of the game but he's not much of a fighter. he wouldn't go with boogaard and gratton cleaned him and last night vs Parros he was doing the old Brashear huggy bear routine

Matts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 10:29 PM
  #22
MeestaDeteta
Registered User
 
MeestaDeteta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Saskazoo
Posts: 7,259
vCash: 139
This may be a blessing in disguise. Torres having a bad year may allow Lowe to land a very reasonable long term contract with Torres. This would only be a blessing if this was an off year for him, and not a long term indication of his performance.

MeestaDeteta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2007, 10:30 PM
  #23
PDO
Registered User
 
PDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,194
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PDO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
You'll never find a bigger JFJ fan than me but he's MILES away from being able to assume the role of Torres. Raffi's dummy numbers might be taking a beat but he's playing a bigger role matchup wise then he ever has before and he's doing a decent job of it to boot. Meanwhile JFJ is -10 playing against no one and has a long way to go to be anything near a top niner.

as for stortini, seems like a good cat and is up for the physical part of the game but he's not much of a fighter. he wouldn't go with boogaard and gratton cleaned him and last night vs Parros he was doing the old Brashear huggy bear routine

JFJ has a long way to go, but he really does have a nice upside. Hopefully he's still in Edmonton when he realizes it, because with a kid who (apparently) works as hard as he does, it'd be really nice to see him develop into the crushing body who can pot in 20 goals.

It's really painful to realize he still doesn't have an NHL goal, and I can't help but wonder what happened to the confidence, I'm referring to the move he tried on Theodore in game 82 last year, but still, it's hard to not like his future. Definitely couldn't replace Raffi today (and I sure as hell hope 14 is dumb enough to sign a multi-year deal) though.

46 though is a different character. There's a lot to like about him, but how useful is a fighter that can only hold on for dear life? Maybe we could set him up with some boxing lessons or something, but he's honestly not going to be that useful unless he's a **** disturber...

... but I've never been a fan of having a **** disturber if you can't have someone like Laraque hanging around to beat the hell out of anyone going after your 83's anyway.

PDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2007, 12:23 AM
  #24
Oilerdiehard
Registered User
 
Oilerdiehard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,458
vCash: 500
I think people put far too much stock in whether you win or lost and not enough emphasis on showing up for the fight. That means something to me. Storts knows how to stir the pot too and does not seem to have amnesia certain games when it comes to his role. Besides the fact I have seen some clips of his fights and I think it is being a little overblown on how underwhelming he is according to some on here.

The other thing they said on the telecast a few games ago that they talked to Stortini before the Minnie game and he gets either a green light or red light from MacT on whether he is "allowed" to fight the other teams tough guy that night.

Oilerdiehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2007, 12:36 AM
  #25
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,616
vCash: 500
I will have absolutely no problem whatsoever if Lowe decides to move Torres in the off-season. People keep commenting that we need a physical player in our top 6 - I think we should stop using the word "physical" when we describe Torres.

Honest question: When was the last time Torres actually played a solid physical game? I can sincerely say that Pouliot throws more hits on a nightly basis than Torres does. Given Torres's streaky scoring, his questionable work ethic and his inconsistent physical play, he seems like the obvious man to trade in the off-season.

I'd absolutely LOVE to see Lowe replace Torres with Calder in the off-season.

__________________
Burn Girl Prom Queen

Last edited by Cerebral: 03-11-2007 at 01:20 AM.
Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.