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Raffi Torres Depreciation Thread.

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Old
03-11-2007, 01:18 AM
  #26
WheatiesHockey
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This season was not great for Torres. During last years playoff run he was considered an asset.
Torres does have a great physical game and a wicked nasty streak on the ice.

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03-11-2007, 01:23 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
Torres does have a great physical game and a wicked nasty streak on the ice.
He has a great physical game when he actually wants to play physical. Unfortunately, that's not very often. Without giving it much thought, I honestly think Torres has had less than ten big physical games this year. Hell, I'm guessing the number is closer to five.

His short stocky frame means he could be a hell of a beast on the forecheck (like Brenden Morrow) but he is almost never the first man in on the puck. Torres should be a perfect counterpart to Lupul but he floats too much and doesn't drive in on the forecheck and use his strength to control the boards. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see Lowe move Torres in the off-season and sign a replacement via free agency (like Calder).

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03-11-2007, 01:46 AM
  #28
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe when Torres hit Williams and he got injured, Torres become timid and started becoming afraid to hit. He shouldn't do that as it could have happened to anyone.

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Old
03-11-2007, 01:55 AM
  #29
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Cerebral always remember that the second man in the play is always the deadliest.

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03-11-2007, 01:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
Cerebral always remember that the second man in the play is always the deadliest.
Not when the second man floats around aimlessly and doesn't fight to get into the key scoring areas.

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:00 AM
  #31
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He did have that problem this year.

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03-11-2007, 03:06 AM
  #32
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He did have that problem this year.
He has had that problem his whole career. Torres could be a pretty similar player to Brenden Morrow (although I don't think he'll ever be as good of a defensive player) but he doesn't seem to have the work ethic that Morrow does. Likewise, he's far too inconsistent which is largely because he doesn't try to initiate contact on most nights.

Just watch Stortini play, the guy doesn't have half the talent or skating ability of Torres but he still manages to have two or three big hits almost every night.

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03-11-2007, 03:10 AM
  #33
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Morrow is smaller but plays a BIG game. Maybe Raffi needs some coaching??

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:11 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
Morrow is smaller but plays a BIG game. Maybe Raffi needs some coaching??
I think he needs a wife

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:36 AM
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I think all of Torres' blatant dirty cheapshots that have resulted in significant injuries to other players, have finally gnawed at his conscience and he is afraid to go hard to the net or put a big hit on someone because they might get a booboo.

Edit: Wow I made this post and then scrolled up to read other replies and saw this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth2Hemsky View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe when Torres hit Williams and he got injured, Torres become timid and started becoming afraid to hit. He shouldn't do that as it could have happened to anyone.
Looks like we are onto something

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03-11-2007, 04:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DarkShark View Post
I think all of Torres' blatant dirty cheapshots that have resulted in significant injuries to other players, have finally gnawed at his conscience and he is afraid to go hard to the net or put a big hit on someone because they might get a booboo.
I think Michalek needs to stop admiring his passes or he's going to keep getting el kabongoed by completely clean hits.

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Old
03-11-2007, 10:12 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShark View Post
I think all of Torres' blatant dirty cheapshots that have resulted in significant injuries to other players, have finally gnawed at his conscience and he is afraid to go hard to the net or put a big hit on someone because they might get a booboo.
Who were these blatant cheapshots against?

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03-11-2007, 10:13 AM
  #38
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I think he just needs a huge boost of confidence somehow, I agree he has looked extremely timid this year. Hopefully he doesn't use his computer much or threads like this won't help. Something or someone needs to get him going, I hope he figures it out because he can be very valuable.

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03-11-2007, 02:13 PM
  #39
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Traditionally, players hit their prime around the 300 game mark in their NHL career. Raffi is at 260 now and moving him could look really stupid in a short period of time (pending the return).

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Old
03-11-2007, 02:26 PM
  #40
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Consist Play!

I think Torres is a good player but the streakyness has to stop. He has stretches of great games and then disappears for 10 games. Torres is a ventran on this team and he needs to step up his play next season or he may find himself traded.

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03-11-2007, 03:13 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vb View Post
Traditionally, players hit their prime around the 300 game mark in their NHL career. Raffi is at 260 now and moving him could look really stupid in a short period of time (pending the return).
I'm interested in this and not disputing it but interested in where you got this and if theres any statistics you have and whether they are specific to position played, TOI played, etc.

I think players here are all too often tossed off the fan plank before date due and that we are all somewhat guilty of that specific to players that we maybe dislike in the first place.

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:24 PM
  #42
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if you don't have the unrealistic expectations of torres being a top 6 forward.. you'd be on the right track..

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:13 PM
  #43
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I will have absolutely no problem whatsoever if Lowe decides to move Torres in the off-season. People keep commenting that we need a physical player in our top 6 - I think we should stop using the word "physical" when we describe Torres.

Honest question: When was the last time Torres actually played a solid physical game? I can sincerely say that Pouliot throws more hits on a nightly basis than Torres does. Given Torres's streaky scoring, his questionable work ethic and his inconsistent physical play, he seems like the obvious man to trade in the off-season.

I'd absolutely LOVE to see Lowe replace Torres with Calder in the off-season.
He is very inconsistant, but at this point he is our only forward that has the ability to hit hard. Guys like Pisani are good along the boards but don't have the ability to hit somebody hard. Torres on the other hand, played a HUGE role in game 2 against Detroit and game 2 against San Jose with his hits. He needs to maintain focus better and keep moving his feet, but when he is on he is such an asset.

I wouldn't be against trading him, but I really do think he will break out in a year or 2 and he still hasn't hit his prime yet. If Lowe can sign him long term cheap I will be very happy. He is still a guy who scored 20 goals his 1st 2 seasons in the league and will likely be a 25+ goal scorer for the next 5-7 years.

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:21 PM
  #44
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He is very inconsistant, but at this point he is our only forward that has the ability to hit hard. Guys like Pisani are good along the boards but don't have the ability to hit somebody hard. Torres on the other hand, played a HUGE role in game 2 against Detroit and game 2 against San Jose with his hits. He needs to maintain focus better and keep moving his feet, but when he is on he is such an asset.

I wouldn't be against trading him, but I really do think he will break out in a year or 2 and he still hasn't hit his prime yet. If Lowe can sign him long term cheap I will be very happy. He is still a guy who scored 20 goals his 1st 2 seasons in the league and will likely be a 25+ goal scorer for the next 5-7 years.
I have the same take on Torres. I do note however that Torres can at times be most motivated out of desperation. When Pisani and Stoll were taking ever greater roles on the team and particualrly in the playoffs Raffi seemed to try harder to keep up. The absence of Stoll, and the lesser year from Pisani, have reduced some of the external motivation.

The problem of course is that Raffi seems to lack some facet of internal drive but given we know that its never a bad idea for him to get the feeling he has to push himself to maintain his roles on the club.

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:28 PM
  #45
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Question:

Who is a comparable to Torres in terms of skill and Physicality if any?? Either in the league or Prospect. What do you guys think is his ceiling in terms of potential??

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03-11-2007, 04:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Question:

Who is a comparable to Torres in terms of skill and Physicality if any?? Either in the league or Prospect. What do you guys think is his ceiling in terms of potential??
unrealistic ceiling: morrow
realistic ceiling: tucker

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Old
03-12-2007, 01:13 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm interested in this and not disputing it but interested in where you got this and if theres any statistics you have and whether they are specific to position played, TOI played, etc.

I think players here are all too often tossed off the fan plank before date due and that we are all somewhat guilty of that specific to players that we maybe dislike in the first place.
Well you are right to call me out this year If you look at this year, these are the PPG of drafted NHL'ers this year versus number of games they played before the season started.
Code:
GP	0	100	200	300	400	500	600	700	800	900	1000	1100	1200	1300	1400
PPG	0.368	0.385	0.455	0.447	0.444	0.562	0.532	0.581	0.561	0.560	0.550	0.809	0.653	0.485	0.186


This year there is a clear jump from 100 to 200 games and another big jump from 400 to 500.

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Old
03-12-2007, 01:17 AM
  #48
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Quote:
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Well you are right to call me out this year If you look at this year, these are the PPG of drafted NHL'ers this year versus number of games they played before the season started.
Code:
GP	0	100	200	300	400	500	600	700	800	900	1000	1100	1200	1300	1400
PPG	0.368	0.385	0.455	0.447	0.444	0.562	0.532	0.581	0.561	0.560	0.550	0.809	0.653	0.485	0.186


This year there is a clear jump from 100 to 200 games and another big jump from 400 to 500.
Seems about right to me. Get them into their fourth year where they should start adapting to quality of opposition a bit and then by the 7th season they're hitting their peak.

I'm pretty sure most forwards hit their peak between 27-29. I believe igor had some pretty charts up that explained that earlier in the year. I'd guess defenseman are around 29-32 and goalies are around the same, but that's just a rough guess. I think proving a defenseman's value statistically would be a lot tougher, but goalies you could likely take the average SV% in any given season, base their SV% against the average SV% and go from there?

Anyway, interesting stuff there vb.

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03-12-2007, 01:21 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by oil_fan85 View Post
I think he just needs a huge boost of confidence somehow, I agree he has looked extremely timid this year. Hopefully he doesn't use his computer much or threads like this won't help. Something or someone needs to get him going, I hope he figures it out because he can be very valuable.
Hey RAAAAFFFFFIIII, if you're out there reading this thread...


YOU SUCK


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Old
03-12-2007, 02:25 AM
  #50
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Its hard to point out Torres for not producing consistently when absolutely no one on the team has scored consistantly. Smyth and Stoll were probably the only ones who were doing it regularly. Horcoff had picked up his game, but with Hemsky out, he's not getting anything done.

As for him floating... sorry, but I don't see it. He's one of the very few forwards, along with Pisani and Horcoff who are winning battles along the boards and is also one of the few players who seems to be making any plays (even though he relies far too much on getting the puck into a corner and passing it to a defenceman at the point).

I find that the problem with Torres is that he has a tendancy to focus too much on one aspect of the game, while neglecting an other. A lot of times, he seems to be geared towards trying to score and make plays, and he totally forgets about hitting. And in at least a couple of games in the past month I've noticed him getting mad and spending a large part of the game trying to land a big hit (and missing), to the exclusion of the offense.

The guy who really has me steaming is Lupul. Sorry, but if his recent play is an example of him trying, then its best to get rid of him as soon as possible. I've defended him in the past, but he hasn't improved in the least and I'm starting to think that he has no hockey sense at all. I can't remember the last time I've seen him take a good shot on net. Not just a weak wrister, but a solid shot that you might think could be a sign of some scoring prowess. He still can't win a battle along the boards, and is still making defensive mistakes. Todays game, Lupul on a two on one break... what does he do? He follows the leading player, skating a foot behind the guy carrying the puck. No surprise that it ends in no scoring chances. Its a two on one Lupul, not rocket surgery! It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to get into a good scoring position on this kind of play. You're trying to score Lupul, not pass a baton.

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