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Old
03-10-2007, 04:36 PM
  #26
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what

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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I know the current rules allow it, but maybe we should look at changing them? Certainly there are compelling reasons for doing so.
compelling reasons?

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Old
03-10-2007, 04:44 PM
  #27
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This really pisses me off!

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Originally Posted by Oil View Post
I didn't hear that, but I hear Grapes last Saturday night that if Smyth re-signed with Edmonton this summer then he is an absolute fraud. He referred to the tears at the airport & was very emphatic about using the word fraud etc.
Grapes should his big ****ing mouth!

How dare he say Smytty would be a fraud if he signs back in Edmonton!

You could make the same arguement if he dosnt sign back in Edmonton.

The Eastern press are just a bunch of hypocritical *******s.

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03-10-2007, 04:47 PM
  #28
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Please

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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I thought he was leaving the joke franchise.

Seriously, the Oilers are a laughing stock.
GO become a Leafs fan...

Actually vasilate back and forth between a Leaf and an Ottawa fanboy.

I think thats best for everyone.

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Old
03-10-2007, 05:04 PM
  #29
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yeah, leave us alone with our laughingstock. You have no purpose anymore because everyone finally agrees with you.

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Old
03-10-2007, 05:07 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM View Post
Grapes should his big ****ing mouth!

How dare he say Smytty would be a fraud if he signs back in Edmonton!

You could make the same arguement if he dosnt sign back in Edmonton.

The Eastern press are just a bunch of hypocritical *******s.
Man, I'd hate to see you when you get PM... S.

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Old
03-10-2007, 05:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I know the current rules allow it, but maybe we should look at changing them? Certainly there are compelling reasons for doing so.
I dont see why. The Islanders signed Smyth knowing full well that he can walk at the end of the season. They traded players for a rental that they feel can help them make noise in the playoffs.

Smyth can sign with who-ever he wants this summer. A handshake deal is not worth the paper its written on, so why would the NHL investigate if he re-signs? He has a right to sign with any of the 30 teams in the league. Why should one team be excluded, just because they traded him?

Its not like this is the loophole when we signed Mike Richter from the Rangers and got a draft pick. That was a bs loophole that needed to be fixed. This isnt a loophole. Its the way its always been. Why are people all of a sudden getting their panties in a bunch now?

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Old
03-10-2007, 05:32 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Sure... that investigation will start right after the ones into Weight and Recchi from last season.

Grapes is entertaining and all, but he's also an idiot.
What a freaking moron, he's an UFA so it's not as if he would be doing anything illegal. Not like he signs a deal with the Islanders and then says, no I'd rather sign the same deal with Edmonton, can you just erase my signature from the contract??? NYI knows that they may no be able to re-sign him. I guess it's official Don Cherry is senile.

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Old
03-10-2007, 06:18 PM
  #33
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If a team signs a fellow with an expiring contract like Smyth, the simple fact of the matter is they're either paying for a rental, or for a rental and an exclusive negotiation period of a few monthes. After which point, Smyth, Weight or whomever is a "free agent" and is free to negotiate with any team they like.

As such the entire notion of free agency and being able to negotiate with any and all teams would be undermined by claiming that if he wanted to Smyth, Weight or whomever couldn't resign with their past team if that's what they wanted to do. Its really a stupid idea that Cherry is putting forward.

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Old
03-10-2007, 06:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Why does ANYONE who mentions something about the Oilers in a negative light automatically an idiot? This board is unbelieveable.

Cherry did NOT say there should be an investigation against the Oilers. He was merely using the Oilers and Ryan Smyth as an example to speak to a bigger issue.

What Cherry was speaking to was the issue of UFA's being traded at the deadline to ensure a return and then signing back with their former team that off-season. I, for one, think it's an idea that warrants discussion.

Normally, I'm inclined to let the free market act how it will, but the NHL is already highly regulated and this is a regulation that has some merit. It turns NHL players, basically, into prostitutes and cheats teams out of players/prospects though agreements that are made between players and their teams in private.

Maybe a 1-year no-return rule should be in place? Cherry is far from the only commentator to bring this up. And just because he used the Oilers as an example doesn't make him an idiot.

Good grief.
It's not that its because it's negative, it's because Don Cherry is a crazy old man who doesn't seem to have a solid grip on the hockey world anymore.

And for the record, no the Oilers' shouldn't. It's called UNRESTRICTED Free Agency, meaning he has the right so sign ANYWHERE, including Edmonton. No one investigated St Louis or Pittsburgh after Weight and Recchi went back.

The only reason the "Collusion" is because Ryan Smyth is such a big name. WHEN, most likely, Tkatchuk re-signs with St Louis in the off-season is anyone going to cry fowl, no. It should be the same for Smyth.

Is it hard work keeping that Upper Canada bias going all the time?

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Old
03-10-2007, 06:44 PM
  #35
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In fairness, Weight and Recchi are a whole lot older than Smyth, but yes, I agree that Don is way off on this one. He can complain about the rules of free agency, as can we all, but he can't go out and throw around words like "fraud" in relation to a completely hypothetical (and in my opinion even quite unlikely) scenario. He's essentially accusing the Oilers of doing something that he finds morally questionable without any proof or indication of its being true whatsoever. Screw him.

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Old
03-10-2007, 07:29 PM
  #36
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Grapes was saying the Oilers got a good trade for Ryan Smyth in that situation.

He had good things to say for Nillson and O Mara, along with the pick we got.

The meaning I got from that Coaches Corner with Cherry, is that if Ryan Smyth came back to the Oilers in the offseason it would be a crime and it shouldn't be allowed.

He didn't say there was anything wrong with it, since it was not against the rules, but when we got an exceptional return for a rental, the Islanders deserve the chance to keep Ryan Smyth.

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Old
03-10-2007, 07:33 PM
  #37
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Oh, but see that's the thing. The Islanders have every chance to keep Ryan Smyth. In fact, they have the first shot, since he can only negotiate with them until July 1st.

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Old
03-10-2007, 07:45 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer View Post
I saw the clip and the Be-Suited One went on about, how after Ryan's weepy, airport exit press conference performance, Smytty shouldn't be allowed to resign with the Oilers.

And you have to admit OntOilFan: "Collusion" is really, much too big a word for Sour Grapes to be processing verbally. Given his oldtimer's decline, lately for Don, life's become just a bowl of half-remember Cherries. Best he leaves that process of getting all fermented, excited, and agitated to the makers of his favourite brand of "pops."
Daing, hate having to cite myself and then eat crow...

Just watched Coaches Corner and the Old Boston Bruiser flicked out several sharp jabs, landed a solid right cross and finished with a great left hook.

Stick swinging would be eliminated if that stupid Instigator penalty went the way of the dodo bird and took Bettman & Stephen Walkom along for the flightless long walk.

Hardened armour "football" type shoulder and elbow equipment should be banned. Head shots with less protected and lightly padded shoulders would help prevent charging, from behind, into the boards, and way to late, if hitting really hard hurt the hitter a little more too, even if you caught a guy with his head down.

If punks that run around with big equipment and the intent to injure had to put-up, shut-up, and stand-up to some knuckle sandwiches and there was no turtling behind their face shields, we'd all soon see who were the real hockey players and who was butt a streak of stinky brown=stain befouling the live ice.

And if they insist on keeping that stupid "diving" delay of game call, at least slap on a ten minute misconduct to let the musty air clear. Make a point of calling penalties on the Star players first and then watch fast some integrity returns to the game we love.

Good One Grapes - you almost made up for last weeks brain freeze. Imagine thinking Smytty could, fake, and pull-off that emotional performance. He'd be better off taking tips, 'on the set' on location for the silver screen, than setting-up, taking a beating, tipping in pucks, in front of the blue paint.


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Old
03-10-2007, 07:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM View Post
compelling reasons?
Yeah, you know... "those" compelling reasons. Along the same lines of all those amenities he explained in great detail in the Healy thread.

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Old
03-11-2007, 12:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grego View Post
Grapes was saying the Oilers got a good trade for Ryan Smyth in that situation.

He had good things to say for Nillson and O Mara, along with the pick we got.

The meaning I got from that Coaches Corner with Cherry, is that if Ryan Smyth came back to the Oilers in the offseason it would be a crime and it shouldn't be allowed.

He didn't say there was anything wrong with it, since it was not against the rules, but when we got an exceptional return for a rental, the Islanders deserve the chance to keep Ryan Smyth.
When a guy uses a word like crime to describe something, he usually thinks there is something wrong with it. The Islanders paid a heavy price knowing full well that the Oilers could possibly sign Smyth in the off-season. Yet they felt that Nilsson, O'marra and a pick combined are worth "renting" Smyth, and an exclusive opportunity to re-sign him before he becomes a free agent.

What is annoying is how nobody gave a damn when Weight and Recchi went back to their old teams. Maybe it was because the return was much lower, but too bad. If a team wants to make a crappy trade, that's their problem. There is no general rule that parties in a negotiation have to make a good deal.

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Old
03-11-2007, 01:17 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikcotyck View Post
When a guy uses a word like crime to describe something, he usually thinks there is something wrong with it. The Islanders paid a heavy price knowing full well that the Oilers could possibly sign Smyth in the off-season. Yet they felt that Nilsson, O'marra and a pick combined are worth "renting" Smyth, and an exclusive opportunity to re-sign him before he becomes a free agent.

What is annoying is how nobody gave a damn when Weight and Recchi went back to their old teams. Maybe it was because the return was much lower, but too bad. If a team wants to make a crappy trade, that's their problem. There is no general rule that parties in a negotiation have to make a good deal.
Much of the focus was saying they should lock this loophole down in the CBA to prevent this possibility from occuring.

Even if Ryan and the Oilers made this deal, it is not worse then what Lou pulled in NJ by trading a retired player to SJ. Both of them can be apparent loopholes in the CBA.

If you have a problem with a team using them, you have to wait until the next time it is bargained, or if the NHLPA agrees you may be able to change it before the next season. Other then that you can't do anything about it

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Old
03-11-2007, 09:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Sure... that investigation will start right after the ones into Weight and Recchi from last season.

Grapes is entertaining and all, but he's also an idiot.
I gotta tell you, I found the entertaining element gone about ten years ago. Grapes is an ass clown. I think people think he's amusing because they think they're supposed to.

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Old
03-11-2007, 02:19 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
I dont see why. The Islanders signed Smyth knowing full well that he can walk at the end of the season. They traded players for a rental that they feel can help them make noise in the playoffs.

Smyth can sign with who-ever he wants this summer. A handshake deal is not worth the paper its written on, so why would the NHL investigate if he re-signs? He has a right to sign with any of the 30 teams in the league. Why should one team be excluded, just because they traded him?

Its not like this is the loophole when we signed Mike Richter from the Rangers and got a draft pick. That was a bs loophole that needed to be fixed. This isnt a loophole. Its the way its always been. Why are people all of a sudden getting their panties in a bunch now?
AHA! Yes! That in essence is the situation! There is no need to regulate this in the league, because teams that 'rent' players are well aware of the risk. No one held a gun to Snow's head and made him offer Nilsson, O'Marra and a 1st. Snow made that decision for the Islanders franchise. He took a risk. Maybe Smyth re-signs with the Isles cause he loves it there and Wang shoots him a wad of cash (sorry ). Or this could end up bein an ugly deal for NYI if they miss the playoffs and Smytty comes back home.

The Islander fans love the Oils right now, but the feeling might not be so warm and fuzzy if things don't go well for them this year. Next year we could have D-Greb on the blueline, as well as Nilsson with the big club, and 2 1st round prospects on our OWN farm team. The Isles may just have Bergeron, and once they fully unwrap that package, they may see that it's not all they thought it was.

As for Cherry suggesting collusion... he did nothing of the sort. Like Cherry would know the word collusion . He was merely stating that if Smyth re-signs in Edmonton next year and if this was all part of a handshake deal to return, that it is a fraud... suggesting that the airport performance was fixed. Even if there was a handshake deal in place, there is no way Smyth was 'faking' at the airport. Leaving Edmonton, even for a couple of months, was a hard thing to cope with since I'm sure he has always thought he would be a lifetime Oiler and he was realizing that that wasn't going to happen.

I don't think that this type of rental should be legislated out of the NHL. If there's a market for it... then its fine by me. Perhaps the one thing I would do is move the trade deadline back even further... that would settle things a bit.

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Old
03-11-2007, 02:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB-King of Donair View Post
I gotta tell you, I found the entertaining element gone about ten years ago. Grapes is an ass clown. I think people think he's amusing because they think they're supposed to.
It's all sentimental at this point IMO. The guy is barely coherent. He never finishes a sentence... I mean he was never eloquent but age is getting the best of him. I find it really hard to follow him and get his point. I think as he gets older you can see the soft heart he really has, but for every good point he makes theres like 50 unintelligable or just plain wrong statements.

You see the giant heads at the CBC are grooming Hrudey and Oake to take over that slot with Behind the Mask. IMO it should happen sooner than later.

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03-11-2007, 03:11 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post

The only reason the "Collusion" is because Ryan Smyth is such a big name. WHEN, most likely, Tkatchuk re-signs with St Louis in the off-season is anyone going to cry fowl, no. It should be the same for Smyth.
Thats weird- My kids were crying 'fowl' earlier today, as a matter of fact. I think I'll make some wings or nuggets!

(Sorry, It's a slow day.)

-Takko

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Old
03-11-2007, 03:17 PM
  #46
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Collusion?

How could there be collusion re; a UFA when 28 other teams would have to cooperate?

I don't think I'm missing something here but Cherry seemingly is...

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Old
03-11-2007, 04:56 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
It's all sentimental at this point IMO. The guy is barely coherent. He never finishes a sentence... I mean he was never eloquent but age is getting the best of him. I find it really hard to follow him and get his point. I think as he gets older you can see the soft heart he really has, but for every good point he makes theres like 50 unintelligable or just plain wrong statements.

You see the giant heads at the CBC are grooming Hrudey and Oake to take over that slot with Behind the Mask. IMO it should happen sooner than later.
I don't want that, I like Kelly Hrudey and I enjoy watching him with the late game.

If I have the early game playing it is mostly for background noise, with moments when I occasionally watch.

I like that as fans in the West we get the better 1st intermission show, since we have to put up with only get 1 of 3 HNIC games as an Oilers game

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Old
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
  #48
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Oiler fans state of mind right now;

1 - Glass is half full - We have a lot of prospects and picks and are poised to make a splash in the free agent pool this year - In Lowe We Trust!!!

or

2 - Glass is half empty - We have no direction, our coach sucks, and we just gave away the heart of the franchise - FIRE EVERYBODY!!!

or

OntOilFan

- The glass will probably shatter in our hands, taking out our eyes with the broken shards. The water it is half full of is infected with the ebola virus, and the half empty part is actually a deadly nerve gas... (oh and this franchise is a joke...)

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Old
03-11-2007, 08:21 PM
  #49
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fraud makes more sense..

with the first couple of posts I was under the impression Don could say collusion, and knew what it meant.

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Old
03-11-2007, 08:46 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoofhearted View Post
Oiler fans state of mind right now;

1 - Glass is half full - We have a lot of prospects and picks and are poised to make a splash in the free agent pool this year - In Lowe We Trust!!!

or

2 - Glass is half empty - We have no direction, our coach sucks, and we just gave away the heart of the franchise - FIRE EVERYBODY!!!

or

OntOilFan

- The glass will probably shatter in our hands, taking out our eyes with the broken shards. The water it is half full of is infected with the ebola virus, and the half empty part is actually a deadly nerve gas... (oh and this franchise is a joke...)
Post of the year candidate right here.

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