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Old
03-10-2007, 04:00 PM
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Red Wings Top 20 prospects

The new Detroit Red Wings Top 20 list looks very different from the last, though Jimmy Howard remains at the top.

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03-10-2007, 08:37 PM
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Wow, Ryno at 3.

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03-10-2007, 08:39 PM
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I'm really surprised. The top-10 is pretty solid.

Could someone talk a little more about Jan Mursak?

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03-10-2007, 09:23 PM
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griggy at 6 while sounds about right for someone who should be better right now i think is still a little high. ryno at 3 is no offense, wishful thinking...

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03-10-2007, 09:34 PM
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griggy at 6 while sounds about right for someone who should be better right now i think is still a little high. ryno at 3 is no offense, wishful thinking...
Emmerton is pretty far down that list ...

Same with Helm...

Both should be MUCH higher.

Ryno needs to be lower.

Abdelkader is too high.

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03-10-2007, 09:36 PM
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stu the grim reaper
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Mursak The Sak Attack

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03-10-2007, 09:37 PM
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Wow, Ryno at 3.

Dakkster was right!

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03-10-2007, 09:58 PM
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Dakkster was right!

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03-11-2007, 12:40 AM
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While Ryno should be a little lower (Somewhere around 7th I'd say), I think he has a great potential out of the bunch, I would'nt be surprised if down the line he becomes something like Robert Lang...

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03-11-2007, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I'm really surprised. The top-10 is pretty solid.

Could someone talk a little more about Jan Mursak?
He's not a big hockey player but his skills have been compared to Pavel Datsyuk, plus he has lots of speed and dos't shy away from the physical game (I'm not saying he's physical, but he's not afraid when it gets rough).

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03-11-2007, 09:10 AM
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I have a question?

It's a great article to read, but compared to other NHL Teams and there prospects, how great are our prospect?

Did Detroit Scouting staff a good job in finding these kind of players?

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03-11-2007, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CuJo#31 View Post
I have a question?

It's a great article to read, but compared to other NHL Teams and there prospects, how great are our prospect?

Did Detroit Scouting staff a good job in finding these kind of players?

Among these prospects, the top two stand out as the blue-chippers. The rest is made up with projects with pretty good upside (Ryno, Mursak etc.) and pretty safe grinders in Abdelkader, Helm, Quincey etc.

The Wings staff did a very solid job n finding these guys as they were all picked with pretty late picks. But outside of Howard and Kindl, the rest is still a few years from being considered for the NHL.

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03-11-2007, 10:10 AM
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Mursak is not that good.

Emmerton was injured, is that why he is forgotten? He's much better than Mursak, yet #4 vs. #11.

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03-11-2007, 10:13 AM
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Wow, Ryno at 3.

The reason for him being ranked that is pretty simple, high-end upside. There is no other prospect in the Wings depth chart that has his kind of upside. He could be a dominant player in the NHL, while the rest have limited upside (except for few other guys).

His blend of naural skill, size, skating and the ability to play physical at times is high-end. He just need to mature and get some North American coaching. Watch out for him to be the talk of the camp come September.

Emmerton is highly overrated by the general public. He has good hockey sense and is a good playmaker, but the rest needs a TON of development. Physical play, play away from puck, shot, skating.. Don´t just look at his numbers in the OHL. They´re not describing the whole picture. He still has NHL upside, but his potential is limited.

Dick Axelsson could be another dark horse prospect. He has similar outlook of Ryno and could be a breakout player in Sweden next season.

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03-11-2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Mursak is not that good.

Emmerton was injured, is that why he is forgotten? He's much better than Mursak, yet #4 vs. #11.
Mursak has the make of a high end prospect., but will he make it? That´s a whole other picture. He has been impressive in his rookie season in the OHL, had a great year in the Czech jun-a last year and has been rock solid in international play with Slovenia.

Regarding Emmorton, read the comments in the previous post.

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03-11-2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuJo#31 View Post
I have a question?

It's a great article to read, but compared to other NHL Teams and there prospects, how great are our prospect?

Did Detroit Scouting staff a good job in finding these kind of players?
I would say yes at this point, it could change since these are only prospects afterall but based on potential I like what we got in the past few drafts, from 2003 up to 2006 here's what we have:

2003
64- Jim Howard
132- Kyle Quincey
164- Ryan Oulahen
170- Andreas Sundin
194- Stefan Blom
226- Tomas Kollar
258- Vladimir Kutny
289- Mikael Johansson

The Good:
- I can't remember when the last time we had a goalie in our system as good as Howard mind you he still has a lot to learn but I like his top potential and at 64th he turned out to be an excellent pick. Quincey is another guy that I like from this draft, he's got the size and could perhaps be a future top-4 at his best.

The Bad:
- This was deep draft and not having a 1st rounder really sucked, of course the rest of the picks suck too but they were late picks so who cares, maybe some will argue that Oulahen was a good pick but at this point Oulahen looks like a future AHLer.

2004
97- Johan Franzen
128- Evan McGrath
151- Sergei Kolosov
162- Tyler Haskins
192- Anton Axelsson
226- Steve Covington
257- Gennady Stolyarov
290- Nils Backstrom

The Good:
- Johan Franzen.

The Bad:
- Very overrated draft, McGrath seems like a bust at this point but oh well it's not like we wasted a 1st rounder on him, he had the potential and we went for it. Stolyarov was exciting at first but that excitment did'nt last too long, then you have Kolosov who showed some good signs but these signs faded away too quickly, Haskins seemed like a future grinder for us but he did'nt improve and we lost him anyways, and the only other guy who I thought had it in him was Axelsson, but if anything he's like a future 13th forward.

2005
19- Jakub Kindl
42- Justin Abdelkader
80- Christofer Lofberg
103- Mattias Ritola
132- Darren Helm
137- Johan Ryno
151- Jeff May
175- Juho Mielonen
214- Bretton Stamler

The Good:
- I think this was a decent draft for us, I'm loving the Kindl pick, this kid plays with an edge and seems to have all the tools that a future d-man star would have, then you have Abdelkader who might not be the best hockey player but I think he's a very solid prospect that could turn into a future Draper perhaps, Helm is a great pick as well, some say he's a future Maltby, May looks like another good pick who I think is somewhat similar to the Quincey pick, and of course the wild-card at this point is Ryno, he's got the size and skill and to me he plays very similar to Robert Lang.

The Bad:
- Lofberg was too hyped and I felt that he was picked a little too early, and Ritola whom I was very excited about seems like a lazy player with talent.

2006: Too early to judge but it has been a good start for most of the picks.

Your other question is how do we match up against other teams? well if we pick some of the best out there I would say not so good, for example a team like Colorado or NJ has had better drafts at this point in the past 2 or 3 years (Maybe the lack of 1st rounders on our end hurts), anyways at this is at this point they have better prospects but you never know how things will turn out in the future.

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03-11-2007, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Mursak is not that good.

Emmerton was injured, is that why he is forgotten? He's much better than Mursak, yet #4 vs. #11.
Mursak is amazing, he's got the hands and the speed plus he's not afraid when it gets physical out there, other then being small I can't think of other bad things about him......

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03-11-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Zoran Manojlovic View Post
Mursak has the make of a high end prospect., but will he make it? That´s a whole other picture. He has been impressive in his rookie season in the OHL, had a great year in the Czech jun-a last year and has been rock solid in international play with Slovenia.

Regarding Emmorton, read the comments in the previous post.
I've seen them both play, several times.

Mursak has all those problems aswell and is more of a playmaker himself. The guy has been knocked out 2 or 3 times in his rookie season in Saginaw. To say Physical play is a problem would be an understatement.

Emmerton is smart away from the puck and a much better two way player than Mursak. I wouldn't say much seperates them in regards to skating, neither has a problem, but they both aren't exactly burners.

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03-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
I've seen them both play, several times.

Mursak has all those problems aswell and is more of a playmaker himself. The guy has been knocked out 2 or 3 times in his rookie season in Saginaw. To say Physical play is a problem would be an understatement.

Emmerton is smart away from the puck and a much better two way player than Mursak. I wouldn't say much seperates them in regards to skating, neither has a problem, but they both aren't exactly burners.
So have I, and I´m pretty sure that Mursak has better upside although I agree that both still have ways to go.

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03-11-2007, 12:35 PM
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Emmerton is highly overrated by the general public. He has good hockey sense and is a good playmaker, but the rest needs a TON of development. Physical play, play away from puck, shot, skating.. Don´t just look at his numbers in the OHL. They´re not describing the whole picture. He still has NHL upside, but his potential is limited.
I agree with Boomhower in that Emmerton is a better two-way player than you are implying. For example, International Scouting Service projected him as a solid defensive center before his offensive explosion in 2005-06.

Said Red Wings director of amateur scouting Joe McDonnell in October 2006: "He projects as a top-two line guy. His hockey sense is his best asset. He's a very smart player. He's just got to get bigger and stronger, but he's a pretty well-rounded guy."

And I'm inclined to think that his upside isn't so limited in the NHL.

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03-11-2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Emmerton is pretty far down that list ...

Same with Helm...

Both should be MUCH higher.

Ryno needs to be lower.

Abdelkader is too high.
agreed

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03-11-2007, 05:53 PM
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stats arent everything, but what exactly are you basing mursak off of if your also not looking at stats?

sure mrusak probably plays amazing, i have not seen him, but i assure you that if he played just as good as he is but put up a few less numbers i bet his stock wouldnt be as high. If that makes any kind of sense...

Emmerton is very underrated IMHO for a few of you. I have not seen him besides a few clips i saw, but what i read outside the box is that the kid has shown a lot of promise. I think it wasnt the best of years with him because i thought he was hurt (im not good with following him too much) so i might be jumping around, but saying the kid has limited upside from a year out of being drafted seams a little harsh if you ask me....

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03-11-2007, 11:10 PM
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Looks like the list was based more on potential than on proximity to the NHL / bust rate. That's fine. I don't think there's a magic formula for these things.

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03-12-2007, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
stats arent everything, but what exactly are you basing mursak off of if your also not looking at stats?

sure mrusak probably plays amazing, i have not seen him, but i assure you that if he played just as good as he is but put up a few less numbers i bet his stock wouldnt be as high. If that makes any kind of sense...

Emmerton is very underrated IMHO for a few of you. I have not seen him besides a few clips i saw, but what i read outside the box is that the kid has shown a lot of promise. I think it wasnt the best of years with him because i thought he was hurt (im not good with following him too much) so i might be jumping around, but saying the kid has limited upside from a year out of being drafted seams a little harsh if you ask me....
Mursak and all the ranked prospects have been evaluated with the word POTENTIAL as the main factor. Mursak shows several signs that you need to be an impact player in the NHL; skating, tremendous puck skills, and intensity.

Emmerton on the other hand has impressive hockey sense and vision, but he lacks intensity and isn´t as willing to fight through the traffic as Mursak is. He just doasn´t play the game that way. He can improve, but it´s not natural for him. I have seen him before and after the draft, several times and my picture was pretty clear from the start. I would have been more pleased if the Wings had dealt him instead of Shawn Matthias who in my opinion was one of the best two-way prospect in the draft last year. He might not be an offensive wizzard, but he´ll be a very important team player. He has tremendous attitude, size, skating and is such a great team player. I had him pegged for the Wings 3rd line for years to come, but..

Sure, stats are always good (and are a part of the development process) but once again, you look for the whole picture with the players. If they show attributes that are required in the NHL than, thats how you grade them. If someone shows signs of being an impact scorer in the NHL than you grade him higher than a player who shows signs of being a solid 4th liner, even though the 4th-line prospect might be closer to the NHL.

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03-12-2007, 04:50 AM
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Looks like the list was based more on potential than on proximity to the NHL / bust rate.
Pretty good statement.

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