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salo vs. conklin

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:08 AM
  #1
jadeddog
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salo vs. conklin

Salo:
1st - Carolina (1.93 GFA, .426), result 3-2 loss - 25 shots, 22 saves, .880 save % - i cant remember the goals salo let in, as this game was a few days ago
2nd - Phoenix (2.5 GFA, .500), result 3-3 tie - 21 shots, 18 save, .857 save % - no chance on the 1st and 3rd goals, could have save the 2nd one by keeping pads together (though that a hard thing to do on 2nd shot)
3rd - Los Angeles (2.66 GFA, .567), result 4-2 loss - 24 shots, 21 saves, .875 save % - played pretty good despite losing, no chance on the 1st goal whish was a rebound goal, 3rd goal was deflected in front, let in a questionable shot from point for 2nd goal, though he was screened on it
4th - Calgary (2.44 GFA, .629), result 2-1 loss - 21 shots, 19 saves, .905 save % - both goals were garbage goals in front of the net, neither goal was really "stopable" but both resulted from poor salo positioning, he was fighting the puck most of the night
5th - Vancouver (2.91 GFA, .657), result 6-2 win - 33 shots, 31 saves, .939 save % - first goal was deflected and no real chance, 2nd goal was a rebound from bad angle that should have been controlled better, didnt watch game (anniversary) so cant comment on overall play
6th - Calgary (2.38 GFA, .621), result 2-1 loss - 21 shots, 19 saves, .905 save %, cannot get PPV where i live, but from the radio it sounds like salo played quite well actually
7th - Minnesota (2.19 GFA, .500), result 2-2 tie - 18 shots, 16 saves, .889 save %, first goal salo was down and out early, 2nd goal i thought was kinda bad positioning - an average game at best
8th - Minnesota (2.18 GFA, .500), result 2-1 win - 25 shots, 24 saves, .960 save %, only goal was a pretty bad rebound but salo was kinda screened on it, didnt play all that great but made the saves that he needed to
9th - Chicago (1.88 GFA, .388), result 4-3 win - 25 shots, 22 saves, .880 save %, missed first goal, 2nd goal was absolutely horrible, 3rd goal was a point shot goal where salo was only partially screened, a pretty bad game all around
10th - New Jersey (2.43 GFA, .649), result 3-2 OT loss - 26 shots, 23 saves, .885 save %, first goal was a weak shot that should have been saved, 2nd goal was tipped and salo had no chance, OT goal was a nice setup and salo had no chance really, average game at best
11th - Philadelphia (2.79 GFA, .655), result 3-0 win - 26 shots, 26 saves, 1.00 save %, obviously played very well as salo got the shutout, though i didnt see the game myself
12th - Washington (2.44 GFA, .337), result 1-0 loss - 22 shots, 21 saves, .955 save %, salo didnt stand much of a chance on the only goal, good game all around
13th - Florida (2.14 GFA, .455), result 4-2 win - 16 shots, 14 saves, .875 save %, 1st goal was a shot that salo should have been able to squeeze, 2nd goal was a very weak goal from a point shot
14th - Anaheim (2.07 GFA, .432), result 1-0 win - 28 shots, 28 saves, 1.000 save %, played quite well, good work all around
15th - Nashville (2.42 GFA, .556), result 2-1 loss - 31 shots, 29 saves, .935 save %, salo did not stand chance on either goal, solid game by salo, loss was not his fault in any way
16th - Dallas (2.02 GFA, .500), result 3-0 win - 16 shots, 16 saves, 1.000 save %, salo made the saves he needed to under a low work-load, another solid game by salo, looked very comfortable

Totals:
16 games, 7-6-2-1 (.531), 1.75 GAA, 378sa, 349s, .923 save %, opponenets average GFA 2.34 and winning % .523


Conklin:
1st - San Jose (2.39 GFA, .518), result 2-2 tie - 30 shots, 28 saves, .933 save % - while i didnt see this game i listened to it and by all acounts conklin played very well, especially making big saves in the 3rd to keep the oilers in the game
2nd - Anaheim (2.16 GFA, .483), result 3-2 win - 30 shots, 28 saves, .933 save % - 1st goal was a very unlucky bounce and he had no chance. the 2nd goal was a little weak - sounded very good in 3rd period
3rd - Minnesota (2.13 GFA, .484), result 1-1 tie, - 20 shots, 19 saves, .950 save %, - 1st goal was a deflection that went straight up, conklin had no chance whatsoever, overall he played well and made a couple very good saves in 3rd to allow the oilers to get a late point from the game
4th - Vancouver (2.91 GFA, .640), result 3-0 loss - 31 shots, 28 saves, .903 save % - 1st goal was a good shot but could have been saved pretty easily, 2nd goal was very weak and really put edmonton out of the game, 3rd goal was on a big rebound, though he had no real chance on the next shot
5th - NY Islanders (2.88 GFA, .525), result 3-2 loss - 29 shots, 26 saves, .897 save % - 1st goal was just terrible, 2nd goal was 5 on 3 and conklin couldnt make the 2nd save, 3rd goal was brutal as well, all in all it was a horifically bad game by conklin
6th - Columbus (1.98 GFA, .471), result 4-4 tie - 38 shots, 34 saves, .895 save % - i thought 1st goal was kinda weak, the rest were a little more difficult i suppose, all in all it was a very average game at best, with more solid tending the oil could have stolen this game

Totals:
6 games, 1-2-3 (.417), 2.50 GAA, 158sa, 144s, .911 save %, opponents average GFA 2.41 and winning % .520


Last edited by jadeddog: 01-20-2004 at 10:35 PM.
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Old
12-14-2003, 04:48 AM
  #2
kraigus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
Salo:
1st - Carolina, result 3-2 loss - 25 shots, 22 saves, .880 save % - i cant remember the goals salo let in, as this game was a few days ago
I don't think he really had a chance on any of them, they were all pretty good.

Having said that, there seems to be a lot of goals he had no chance on - is the team letting him down? Is he just playing himself out of position? Or is he just unlucky and facing the hot shooters? I don't know.

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Old
12-14-2003, 05:50 PM
  #3
MrMackey
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Time to update again, and game #2 was a carbon copy (statistically) of game #1 for Conklin... with one important difference - the WIN!!!

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12-14-2003, 06:58 PM
  #4
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i would have a guess its the team, the only reason i say this is last year when Jussi was here speeds made the same observation that the teams seemed to change their style of play when Jussi was in nets

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12-14-2003, 07:11 PM
  #5
Chayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i would have a guess its the team, the only reason i say this is last year when Jussi was here speeds made the same observation that the teams seemed to change their style of play when Jussi was in nets

I actually think that Conklin's puck handling ability helps the team in the break out as well.

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12-14-2003, 07:12 PM
  #6
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Ty:

Better puckhandler, better save %, more net coverage, faster, younger, cheaper, outperforming Salo in every way.

Not sure about the judgements on goals and how much of a chance there was to stop them. It's a pretty subjective call. There are also more important things, though still subjective, to analyze when determining who should be playing. These include who's "feeling the puck" better, and anticipating better, and so on. These take close observation. Ty has had the edge all year, possibly excluding the Pittsburgh game, he always has a good sense of where the puck is.

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Old
12-14-2003, 07:14 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos1
I actually think that Conklin's puck handling ability helps the team in the break out as well.
Ask any defenceman and they will tell you, they take alot less of a beating with a goalie who can dish the puck. It's pretty evident too in comparing how the team plays with the two goalies, that they prefer the way Conklin does things. There's a measure of apprehension in their play when coming back to get the puck with Salo in there/out getting the puck.

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Old
12-14-2003, 08:10 PM
  #8
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yeah of course the goal critiques are subjective, lol.... thats half the reason i started this post i played goalie for many years in hockey and its the position i know the most about in the game, so i feel that i have a decent grasp of what should and should not be saved...... but yes, the descriptions are subjective and not always going to be right

that being said, i dont really want to get into a paragraph description of each goal, i just want a sentence or maybe two... i think i might also start putting a sentence at the very end as to the "overall" play of each goaltender.... this sentence would encompass timely/clutch saves, weak goals that kill momentum etc etc...... ill put this in if people want to see it, so let me know!

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Old
12-14-2003, 08:53 PM
  #9
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Go as in-depth as you want jdg, I'm sure all you supply will be appreciated.

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Old
12-14-2003, 10:58 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
... we can fairly evaluate our two goalies ....

Salo Totals:
2 games, 0-1-1, 3.00 GAA, 46sa, 40s, .870 save %

Conklin: Totals:
2 games, 1-0-1, 2.00 GAA, 60sa, 56s, .933 save %
Meaningless comparison at this point, statistically. Conks was very lucky tonight to have won this game. He was down too early too often, he mishandled the puck and got some lucky breaks. But it's not like he didn't deserve getting a couple of fortunate bounces, especially after that horribly bad break on the Ducks' 1st goal. Tonight the puck bounced off Conks to good places but the bad calls coming from the striped baboons were offsetting. Tommy in his first 2 games back has yet to enjoy having some good breaks go his way. Lets see where they both are after they've each played 10 games.

But having 2 mints in one goal mouth should keep things refreshing. To go along with added breadth and depth, this positive pressure can only raise their respective levels of play. Overall consistency in the Oilers' net can be better maintained, because now our spare rubber-stopper has become ice rated and studded too boot! Well I'm going to get a grip and brake into some Zzzzzzs ...

Edit: One must always remember that the quality of the posts we make can become a sticky reminder that the extra effort we make to more effectively communicate by minimizing errors is worth the extra time taken. Usually I self-edit and eliminate the obvious error more effectively when I first post a comment.


Last edited by OYLer: 12-17-2003 at 11:31 AM.
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12-15-2003, 06:02 AM
  #11
dawgbone
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Good puckhandling may help defenders, but Conks turns the puck over a lot. He has the ability to play the puck ( a good powerful shot), but he doesn't seem to really know how.

That is a problem with a lot of these "puck moving" goaltenders. With the exception of Brodeur and maybe Turco, alot of these goalies feel the urge to bang a wrist shot off the boards, not really caring where it will go. The second there is a checker within 3 feet of the defenceman who is going to retreive the puck, the goaltender will blindly fire the puck along the boards, and at least half the time the puck goes right to an opposing forward.

Patrick Roy was the King of all these types of goaltenders. He would continually cough the puck up. Yeah, sometimes he made a nice 80 foot pass to a streaking forward, but a lot of the times it was a turnover.

Now, Salo may not be good at handling the puck, but aside from that Ottawa game where Hossa scored on him, how many times has Tommy given the puck directly away that lead to a goal? I can't remember any.

Conks has the skill to be a good puckhandler, what he needs is the ability to figure out when it is the right time to do it.


Last edited by dawgbone: 12-15-2003 at 09:57 AM.
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12-15-2003, 09:22 AM
  #12
MrMackey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
But having 2 mints in one goal mouth should keep things refreshing.
Great line!!!

As for Conklin going down early, I've noticed the same thing from Salo (who also seems to be positioned too deep in his net). Although I know next to nothing about goaltending and too often rely on stats and lay-man's perception in judging performance.

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12-15-2003, 10:48 AM
  #13
jadeddog
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im going to be adding another stat to this, because i was thinking today about how these stats dont take into account what team or what calibre of players each goalie was facing..... im planning on doing the following:

opposing team win % (as another person mentioned, ill use the NHL rules for points obtained/points available) and opposing teams avg goals for

these stats will be the stats the teams have coming into the game vs edmonton - to reflect their level of play at that point in the season.... if anybody has any other ideas on how to make these stats more accurate please let me know!

ill be adding these stats this weekend once my finals are over

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12-17-2003, 09:37 AM
  #14
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added the goals for/game stat for each team, as well as a total for the average of opponents GFA for each goalie

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12-17-2003, 10:52 AM
  #15
rabi_sultan
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i think this has the potential to be an important thread that can be referenced by a lot of ppl so i'll sticky it for the time being, it'll provide an interesting comparison of whats happening, good work jadeddog

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12-17-2003, 11:55 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMackey
Great line!!!

As for Conklin going down early, I've noticed the same thing from Salo (who also seems to be positioned too deep in his net). Although I know next to nothing about goaltending and too often rely on stats and lay-man's perception in judging performance.
I certainly agree with you about Salo going down into the butterfly too early as well. The attempt to tweak and change Salo's style has not resulted in the dividends anticipated. When Tommy was standing up and moving out to challenge the Kings' shooters he looked better. When he butterfied while deep in his crease he looked awkward and was beaten by shoots he should have made saves.

The Oilers' defense are still not nasty enough clearing the front of the net. IMHO, this is the place on the ice where the Oilers should take penalties and they should be fouls that physically hurt oppositin players trying to drive to our net and/or those trying to screen and harass our goaltenders. If Rob Blake can inflict hurt and not get called for penalties, then so should Eric Brewer & company be able to patrol our defensive zone with a nasty edge to their play and not have to visit the sin bin. Making it very unpleasant to occupy real estate near the blue paint will only help both our goalies play better.


Last edited by OYLer: 12-17-2003 at 12:02 PM.
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12-17-2003, 01:11 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMackey
Great line!!!

As for Conklin going down early, I've noticed the same thing from Salo (who also seems to be positioned too deep in his net). Although I know next to nothing about goaltending and too often rely on stats and lay-man's perception in judging performance.
I think with Salo it's moreso how deep he is in the net than how quickly he drops. The third goal last night could be directly linked to the fact that Salo was a foot from the goal line when Corvo took the shot, and may have even helped on the King's second goal. Also, his hip must still be bothering him - his lateral movement seems to be quite slow, especially moving left to right.

Tommy's not really playing that poorly, but he's just not the same anymore. However, Tommy, if you're reading this, get out of the blue paint on those shots from the point! IMO, that would cut down the number of long-range goals that he gives up.

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12-19-2003, 09:21 AM
  #18
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rabi - thanks for making this a sticky! it was hard to find the thread sometimes

i added the opponents winning % for each team and the totals.... in case anybody was wondering about the formula, it is points obtained/points available for each team, then i just average the percentages..... i could have added up all the points obtained and all the points available, but that would have taken a long time farther into the season so i went this way.... the difference in the total % will sometimes be 1 or 2%, but i felt this was an allowable difference (though im sure my stat profs would disagree, lol)

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12-22-2003, 08:48 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
4th - Vancouver (2.91 GFA, .640), result 3-0 loss - 31 shots, 28 saves, .903 save % - 1st goal was a good shot but could have been saved pretty easily
i never saw the goal but if Mizral says that Nazzy can score that on most goalies in the league then could that be true? his reflex wasn't fast enough?

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12-22-2003, 11:08 AM
  #20
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I dont know, I thought he had a pretty big five hole on that shot, and Naslund just had a lot to shot at as long as he got it away quickly, which he did.

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12-23-2003, 10:59 AM
  #21
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well it doesnt really matter if naslund can beat most goalies with that shot, the fact is that conklin got beat on the shot, and he shouldnt have..... now it wasnt a "routine" save but it was a save that needed to, and should have, been made.... it wasnt nearly as bad as the 2nd goal though

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Old
01-02-2004, 06:17 AM
  #22
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I've unstuck this thread, but will re-stick once we clear out some of the time sensitive items at the top of the board currently.

I for one find this thread quite interesting, especially considering Tommy's save percentage. So, unless anyone objects, I'll re-stick it in a few days.

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Old
01-03-2004, 08:18 AM
  #23
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*bump* for jan 2nd (minnesota game) stats

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Old
01-04-2004, 09:45 PM
  #24
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Tommy supposed newly developed style modifications incorporating the butterfly, still leave much to be desired. His technique is still weak and too pondered. When Salo is just reacting and challenging he stops more point shoots. However, not being a good butterfly goaltender now-a-days means a goalie is just too susceptible to a myriad of other attacks which good butterfly technique can better defense against (wrap-a-rounds, tips from the sides, random deflections, etc.).

Had the Oilers been playing any team above us in the standings that very soft goal Tommy let in would have cost the E-Towners the game tonight. While Ty should start against the Devils in an attempts the steal a game via goaltending, Salo should be drilling on point shot butterfly technique vs Standup challenge and when to use each. His drop into butterfly lacks stick tecnique. Salo's recovery to upright seems to be still a little too slow.

As well, the Coaching staff might want to provide Tommy with a limited number of options he is allowed to execute when handling the puck and pass-off that responsiblilty to the defense who would dink-out or blast-out the puck off the glass when rushed. If the Oilers are a forechecking team why are we spending so much time trying to bring the puck out of our own end under control?

Perhaps if the forwards could count on the simple play they wouldn't have to expend so much energy chasing their checks if the defense would just get the puck out quickly. When the Defense stands the puck carrier up at the blueline the gap between the forwards and the D-man stays manageable. If the opposing teams dump and chase our bigger defense make the other teams forwards pay the price in the corners. In New Jersey they have learned that when a quick and slippery forward is wiping half his face off of the plexi-glass he isn't too effective.

The D-man making a habit of retreating into their own end might work against the Hawks but New Jersey's aggressive trap forward will eat up Brewer and company. Then the Goalies will be under sustained pressure which leads to breakdowns, rebounds, and goals allowed.

If the other team gains the zone collapsing to the middle allows for the right players to pick up their respective checks. Is this stuff just too difficult for MacT and company to ingrain. Salo would greatly benefit, as would the team as a whole if he didn't 5 times a game shot the puck along the boards right onto the the stick of the other teams best forwards who then always creative an excellent scoring opportunity. Conks makes way better reads and executes better but he too would be better served if there were less creativity in his puckhandling as well.

Drilled systems need to be executed with better pre-planned puck support. Sure mistakes will happen and turnovers committed but the goalies should at least know where and how the puck will be played and be better prepared. The constant silly and constant reversals of the puck in the Oilers end only ends up in sending the puck to a player on the other team who has more time to make a play. Grit is about pushing the puck up the boards and paying the physical price.


Last edited by OYLer: 01-05-2004 at 07:18 AM.
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01-15-2004, 06:27 AM
  #25
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made the updates for the past 3 games now that the edit function works again..... also added the winning percentage of each goalie (points obtained/points available)

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