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Old
03-13-2007, 09:53 PM
  #501
Chimp
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As I've said in the "Blown goal" thread:

When we get a 2 goal lead, we tend to get passive and when we get passive, we suck.

We're a team that live on puck possession. When we lose that possession, bad things happen, because we aren't a good trap team that can defend leads.

The best thing would be if we mentally could just continue to play the same way it it's 2-0, 0-0 or 0-2, but obviously we can't. We suck at trying to lay low and strike at the opponent mistakes, we usually come up making the mistakes ourselves instead when we are in the lead.

The main philosophy when in a lead is "let your opponent own the problem", but we just suck at that philosophy.

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03-13-2007, 10:09 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman27 View Post
I mean come on, there has to be a line drawn somewhere? Whats with these asstastic goalie interference calls lately? Mara gets two for getting pushed by Emery?
why is everyone complaining about the interference call. yeah emry shoved him, but mara was in the crease. he is not allowed to be in there and he knows it. its the goalies area. emery did the right thing drawing contact to draw the penalty, but mara has to know he cant go in the crease at all. instead of trying to cut between emrey and the net he needed to skate around the goal

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Old
03-13-2007, 10:10 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
Was he really that good off the puck last season? Or did his immense offensive production just overshadow his defensive deficiencies?
Ding!

That's the way it's been for his whole career.

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Originally Posted by Kvashinator12 View Post
if you ever think that refs gave you a job tonight, you should come watch our game...
No, the refs didn't screw us. Sure, the call on Mara that lead to the 2nd goal was ********, but the refs didn't job us at all. This team once again took it's foot off the throttle, and showed it's lack of killer instinct, sitting on a 2 goal lead. I don't know how anyone who thinks that the refs jobbed us this game will sleep at all tonight.

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Originally Posted by NYR fan 2 View Post
I don't get why everyone is hating on Malik so much. I thought he has played very well of late and just has had bad luck. Bounces of the stick can happen to anyone, its just bad luck its happened to him a bunch of times lately.
No, he hasn't played very well lately. He hasn't played well since last season, where he was correcting Rozsival's mistakes left and right. His problem is that he doesn't skate, and he uses his reach and his stick to make up for it, and that doesn't work. He needs to improve his skating if he plans on sticking around in the NHL. Needs to be a bit more physical as well.

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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
I think Dubinsky played well tonight. I noticed him more on the ice in this game than any of his previous games.
He played great, this kid looks excellent.

I wonder where Kaktus is now to bash him. I suppose he's better than Downie now because Downie is still in the OHL, and Dubinsky is in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Betts has only become good for taking draws and killing Penalties. I've been kinda disappointed in his overal game this year.
That's all he is, was, and ever will be. He's a marginal NHL'er.

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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Pock clears and it's not an issue.

I was at the game. It happened right in front of me. This team has a knack for not clearing. Pock didn't tonight and it cost them.

If Pock doesn't chip in offensively, he doesn't serve much purpose.
Sure, that would help, but who's job is it to not let the opposing forward on that point penetrate the box? The winger on that side, the winger that's supposed to be covering that point.

Betts screwed up just as much as Pock did, so let's not completely blame the rookie. It's bad enough that our clueless head coach doesn't know how to use them as it is. We don't need the fans blaming them solely for mistakes that other players helped along as well.

I'm not saying Pock is innocent, but if Betts didn't let Alfredsson get that close, or even blocked the shot - the one thing he's good at - that's not a goal.

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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Err... now you're completely offside. All I did was saying it's unfair to complain on Nylander that he didn't shoot the puck tonight, when he scored 2 goals and had 7 shots on net. Cool off and stop painting up a landscape from an empty picture.

My last comment to you was about your rant on the Czechs and the "go back to Russia" crap. It just sounded racist and ignorant.
Completely offside? No what's completely offside is bashing someone, and when that person retaliates, then backing off and crying racism. THAT is completely offside.

Nylander had ONE GOOD NIGHT. Nylander hasn't shot the puck all season, and has one good night. All I said is that he played a decent game. He's still gotta shoot more. He's still gotta stop overhandling the puck. He's still gotta backcheck harder. These are all truths than anyone can see.

My comment about Jagr going back to Russia was because Jagr considered going back to Russia after the lockout, and to tell you the truth, now that I think about it, it probably would have been better for the team. We'd have more of our younger players playing, and less of this perimeter, east-west soft ******** hockey.

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Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
My goodness this European hate needs to stop. This Nylander circling and stopping that everyone complains about, look at the third goal what did Spezza do? Got into the zone and stopped and made a pass just like Nylander. Lots of players do it in this league, it's a great way of finding open players. Jagr is not taking games off like people seem to think. It's the fact that he's not going to score 50+ goals this year that people get this idea. And oh yeah, that shoulder thing that I can guarantee still affects him, Chad Pennington remind of you him in anyway? If it was North American players making these mistakes I'm sure there would be plenty of reasons and excuses of why we need a more European team. Every game we lose there's always excuses of how WE lost the game. How about this excuse? Ray Emery played one hell of a game. He made some big saves especially in the beginning of the 3rd period which kept it a tied game. We hit some posts and ran into a goalie playing good. And by the way this is the first regulation game we've lost in 7 games, it's not the end of the world. Believe it or not, we can still make the playoffs.
LOL.

The difference between Nylander and Spezza is that Spezza shoots much more than Nylander does. Spezza has played in less games and has more goals than Nylander. Spezza can dangle better than Nylander as well. Spezza is just better than Nylander at almost every aspect offensively except for stopping, turning, and cutting.

HAHA, perfect comparison in Jagr and Pennington! Both are crybabies, both hurt their shoulders, both are overpaid, and now both of them CAN'T FIRE BOMBS!

Like I said though... if Jagr is really hurt, if that shoulder is still bothering him, why is he playing? If it's that bad, it should be in his best interest to rehab it.

About Jagr not getting 50 goals and 120 points, nah, that's not why we think he's taking nights off. We KNOW he's taking nights off because you can watch the way he's playing, or you can see how he's playing scared when he has to face someone like Witt, Hill, White, Chara, or Phillips. When defenders hit him, and play nasty against him, he plays scared, and tries to stay away from them. That is NOT what a captain should be doing. A captain should take them head on, and will himself to score despite their presence. Apparently, Jagr can't do that.

As for the North American comment, our North American players play a lot harder, giving a more consistent effort on a nightly basis. Shanahan, Avery, Ortmeyer, Betts, Hollweg, Mara, Ward when he was here, etc... Some of them might not be as talented, but I'll take hard-work over talent anyday. Look at the Devils, that's their philosophy, and they win. I wouldn't have that problem, and I wouldn't say we need more Euros, because I'd be happy if they were working hard. Our Euros don't bring it every night. Straka and Prucha are the two exceptions. Jagr plays when he wants to, ask ANY Penguins or Capitals fan if you need further reinforcement of that statement. Rozsival is just a moron, and doesn't skate hard. Malik just doesn't skate, so he gets caught flatfooted and gets burned, or gets caught out of position and then attempts to use his stick to compensate, and burns the team, like he did on that 3rd goal.

Malik has become this year's Tom Poti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
ive never been a fan of betts or his game, and am miffed they extended his contract in the middle of this season.

his role could be filled by Dubinsky next year, and letting dubi learn the game w/o being pressured as a 2nd liner or whatever.
I agree, but I wouldn't put Dubi on the 4th line. I think Dubi will be ready to at least be the regular 3rd line center next year, if not the 2nd line center. Staal, Dawes, and Cally should be up as well.

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Old
03-13-2007, 10:10 PM
  #504
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id love to know just what betts was doing on the second goal, hes standing in te area where he needs to pick a man up, but he leaves alfredson wide open instead of closing the gap on a stationary player. sigh

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Old
03-13-2007, 10:42 PM
  #505
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I was at the game (right behind the Rangers' goal) and I don't have much to add to the pages and pages before this one except this:

I continue to be excited about our future. It's the vets who either win or lose our games for the most part this year* (for better or for worse - Nylander was fantastic despite the missed bouncing puck towards the end), but...

..think about Hossa and Tyutin prior to injury and Prucha's resurgence after a snakebit sophomore slump beginning.

Also, I like to watch the younger guys playing limited roles. Girardi is already a proven NHL player in my mind - could be a #3 D, could be a #6 D, but he belongs in the NHL, either way. Dubinsky is even younger and with more promise. You can literally see him learning out there - and there were at least two plays tonight where he made the crowd OOOOH.

*Lundqvist being the obvious real exception.

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Old
03-13-2007, 10:50 PM
  #506
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Get Rid Of Marek Malik Right Now

He Is The Worst Defenseman In This League

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Old
03-13-2007, 10:58 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I was at the game (right behind the Rangers' goal) and I don't have much to add to the pages and pages before this one except this:

I continue to be excited about our future. It's the vets who either win or lose our games for the most part this year* (for better or for worse - Nylander was fantastic despite the missed bouncing puck towards the end), but...

..think about Hossa and Tyutin prior to injury and Prucha's resurgence after a snakebit sophomore slump beginning.

Also, I like to watch the younger guys playing limited roles. Girardi is already a proven NHL player in my mind - could be a #3 D, could be a #6 D, but he belongs in the NHL, either way. Dubinsky is even younger and with more promise. You can literally see him learning out there - and there were at least two plays tonight where he made the crowd OOOOH.

*Lundqvist being the obvious real exception.
Agreed. Tyutin continued his development, Girardi has emerged as a solid defender, Prucha's battled through a tough sophomore season, and seems stronger because of it, and Hossa had shown big time strides. Two young vets in Mara and Avery were added, both of who could be important parts of the future. And, Henke is big time.

Now add the promise of Dubinsky, the rise of Callahan, the growth of Byers and Korpikoski at Hartford, the return from oblivion of Jessiman, plus, the five potential studs joining Hartford next year - Staal, Sauer, Dupont, Pyatt and Anismov...there's a lot of excitement in the organization. And, I hadn't even mentioned the likes of Sanguinetti, Zaborsky and Kveton. Then there's Baranka. Oh, yeah, and Montoya, too!

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Old
03-13-2007, 11:06 PM
  #508
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Completely offside? No what's completely offside is bashing someone, and when that person retaliates, then backing off and crying racism. THAT is completely offside.
Wth? Retaliates? Argumentation isn't about retaliation, this isn't a bar brawl, but that certainly explains your replies, where you flew off in some direction where I supposedly, according to you, claimed Nylander was some sort of god and should take off my Swedish goggles because I disagreed that Nylander didn't take his share of shots this game. Get this: My reply on Nylander was generally aimed to all in this thread whining on Nylander not shooting in this game, not specifically you, otherwise I would have quoted you. You're right on one thing, I shouldn't have called your post racism, but nationalism. Wrong term.

To go back on subject, with all due respect, your post was off the line and I wasn't the only one who reacted negatively on your hate post.
Quote:
Nylander had ONE GOOD NIGHT. Nylander hasn't shot the puck all season, and has one good night. All I said is that he played a decent game. He's still gotta shoot more. He's still gotta stop overhandling the puck. He's still gotta backcheck harder. These are all truths than anyone can see.
We are all perfectly aware of Nylander's weaknesses and strengths as a hockey player. I just think criticism should be put where it is deserved, which is what it all comes down to, in others case because I think their bashing of Nylander tonight was unjustified and just smelled automatic, while I reacted on your post solely because I thought it was highly unnecessary to have the tone you had.
Quote:
My comment about Jagr going back to Russia was because Jagr considered going back to Russia after the lockout, and to tell you the truth, now that I think about it, it probably would have been better for the team. We'd have more of our younger players playing, and less of this perimeter, east-west soft ******** hockey.
Well, excuse me if it was a little bit hard to follow your three step mind scheme in all that hatred you poured out. How do you think you generally interpret a hateful post, where it says "go back to Russia?"
Quote:
The difference between Nylander and Spezza is that Spezza shoots much more than Nylander does. Spezza has played in less games and has more goals than Nylander. Spezza can dangle better than Nylander as well. Spezza is just better than Nylander at almost every aspect offensively except for stopping, turning, and cutting.
And by the way...
Nylander, $2.2 million, 67 games, 160 shots, 22 goals, 48 assists.
Spezza, $4.5 million, 55 games, 133 shots, 28 goals, 45 assists.

Nylander: 2,38 shots/ game, Spezza: 2,41 shots/ game. Spezza shoots much more with 0,03 more shots/ game? I don't think so. Better player? Yeah, of course, since he's a franchise player and is paid accordingly. He just made a comment that Spezza did the same thing as Nylander, but the Ottawa fans will probably not want to drag Spezza out in an alley and shoot him because he made a pass.

So, to summarize this debacle:
1. I wrote a general response to all those who complained Nylander didn't shoot, when he in fact had.
2. I wrote a short side comment that I thought your post was highly unacceptable. My response to you didn't concern your comments on Nylander that much, but your pouring hatred that had a nationalistic tone (which you have explained concerned Jagr's thoughts of ending his career in the Russian league).


Last edited by Chimp: 03-13-2007 at 11:31 PM.
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Old
03-13-2007, 11:28 PM
  #509
CM Lundqvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Wth? Retaliates? Argumentation isn't about retaliation, this isn't a bar brawl, but that certainly explains your replies, where you flew off in some direction where I supposedly, according to you, claimed Nylander was some sort of god and should take off my Swedish goggles because I disagreed that Nylander took his share of shots this game. Get this: My reply on Nylander was generally aimed to all in this thread whining on Nylander not shooting, not just you, otherwise I would have quoted you. You're right on one thing, I shouldn't have called your post racism, but nationalism. Wrong term.
Argumention isn't about retaliation, nor is it about flaming someone either, which you were guilty of. So I went back at you.

Two wrongs don't make a right now, do they?

Racism and Nationalism are two different things.

So is generalizing North American players as harder-working, grittier players and being racist towards Europeans. Face it, we all know North Americans for their North-South play, and Euros for an east-west game. It's not racism, nor is it ignorance by any stretch of the human imagination.

Quote:
To go back on subject, with all due respect, your post was off the line and I wasn't the only one who reacted negatively on your post. I'm talking about this post (I cut it off):
Yeah, I was a little angry as you could tell, but I think I made a lot of strong points in that fit.

Quote:
We are all perfectly aware of Nylander's weaknesses and strengths as a hockey player. I just think criticism should be put where it is deserved, which is what it all comes down to, both in your case and in others case tonight and which is the reason why I replied.
Yes, we are all aware of them but one good night does not get him a free pass, and that is the problem with this team. The management is too lenient with the head coach, and the head coach is too lenient with his star player... why? Because they give into his demands, THEY APPEASE HIM, AND IT'S WRONG.

Quote:
There is no "I" in team.
It's about time Jaromir Jagr learns this, because it's not all about him.

Quote:
Well, excuse me if it was a little bit hard to follow your three step mind scheme in all that hatred you poured out. How do you think you generally interpret a hateful post, where it says "go back to Russia?"
That's the problem, you're reading too far into things. If it said "go back to the Czech Republic," then maybe I would have thought otherwise, but being Ranger fans, we know about Jagr's love for the time he spent in Russia playing for Avangard Omsk during the lockout, and how he strongly considered staying there. Quite frankly, now I think he should have done that.

Quote:
And by the way...
Nylander, $2.2 million, 67 games, 160 shots, 22 goals, 48 assists.
Spezza, $4.5 million, 55 games, 133 shots, 28 goals, 45 assists.

Nylander: 2,38 shots/ game, Spezza: 2,41 shots/ game. Spezza shoots much more with 0,03 more shots/ game? I don't think so. Better player? Yeah, of course, since he's a franchise player and is paid accordingly.
Spezza has 6 more goals than Nylander in 12 less games, and his shots per game average would probably be a lot higher had he gotten to play those 12 games. He'd probably have 35 goals by now.

Spezza is actually VERY underpaid for a franchise player. I'd LOVE to get a player of his caliber at 4.5 million, that's an ABSOLUTE STEAL. Especially someone who is not even close to his prime yet.

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Old
03-13-2007, 11:50 PM
  #510
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I edited my post a little bit to make things clearer. No harsh feelings towards you GretzNYR99, didn't want to insult you in some way by calling your post racist (which was the wrong term, meant nationalistic, is a little late here), I just wanted to show that the post was off the line, even in the heat after a loss. I understand of course that you were angry because I called the post by these terms, but from how it looked, it felt justified (before you explained yourself).

As for the NA north-south and European west-east, well sure, that's how they're generally looked upon here, with existing exceptions of course.

How a team plays is up to the coach. Just look at the transformation of Yashin on the Islanders as an example of that. The players on this team aren't physically incapable of backchecking.

I also feel I have to defend the players a bit. Sure, they might have looked lazy out there, but I think it's unfair to say that players don't give 100% out there, regardless who it is. They just don't have any more energy to give during that shift.

It's perfectly reasonable that Hollweg for example looks so much more energized on the ice when he can put all his energy into 5-10 minutes of skating, while Jagr - as another example - will be out there 20-25 minutes a night. It's not physically possible for Jagr to play like Hollweg every shift in 82 games if you play alot.

We've certainly had our fair share of injuries down this stretch, we played with 5 defensemen and we miss players like Shanny. That hurts. You can all be mad that we lost a game that we had high chances of winning, but I think the high extent of bashing of certain players is unfair. They want to win as much as us fans do, probably even more, because they have each put down 10.000+ hours into practicing this sport.

And as for Malik being mentioned as the scapegoat for his deflection: All our defensmen has, bizarre enough, had their share of unlucky pinball goals on Lundqvist. It's just sick. Before we traded Ward for example, how many had he on his conscience? Many. Rachunek? Etc...


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Old
03-14-2007, 02:53 AM
  #511
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I also think there are some ugly irony in this whole Malik thing. His confidence have been destroyed by fans who wanted to see Pöck in his place, Pöck who caused the 2nd goal against...

GretzNYR99- I don't think Chimp needs to back down. I would like you to explain your point though, cause I don't understand it?

Nylander is a pure playmaking center, in style he is just like Craig Janney, just like Adam Oates, just like the old Gretzky we saw here. He doesn't have a good shot.

Now Nylander have scored 20 goals, while his linesmate, the best sniper in the league last season have 24.

When that line is circling without getting shots off or scoring goals, its mindboggling that you find its Nylander's fault, since his role is to circle and pass the puck. A role thats hardly unique in the NHL, on the countyary, its very common since its really effective to have a pure playmaker and a tons of coaches and teams got em.

I completly understands the complaints on Nylander for loosing the puck anywhere but the attacking zone. He got no buisnis trying a 360' in his own end, when he can just chip the puck out. He got no buisnis trying stuff at the attacking zone. Its something he have done all his career, and its a major flaw he got.

Though, while he passes up great oppertunitys at times, like once every 3rd game, you can harldly blame him for beeing a pass first player. When he does try to shoot, his shots the majority of times gets blocked or are pretty weak, he defenitly aren't the second comming of Sakic. But when he trys to pass, the majority of times he opens up ice and finds someone in a good shooting position, is it his fault that thoose guys who gets it aren't shooting? No.

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Old
03-14-2007, 03:07 AM
  #512
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Cause Renney knows this team sucks balls. He plays the games not to lose, instead of playing to win. That's why he's got Betts out there on the second line in a 2-2 game instead of Dubinsky.
I hate to bash the team, especially when they are working so hard. But, it can't become more obvious then it was last night, the question aren't why we are blowing two goal leads, the real question should be, how come we are able to get them?

Ottawa clearly is a better team. Its no suprise that they score 2 goals in the final period, whats suprising is that we score 2 in the 1st.

We got allot of players playing at positions far over their heads. Its one thing for a D like Roszival to play as a top pairing D playing 22 minutes, and another to do it for 29 minutes.

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03-14-2007, 05:38 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by poeman View Post
Get Rid Of Marek Malik Right Now

He Is The Worst Defenseman In This League
No one wants him. Unless his contract runs out, I doubt you could get rid of him.

But he is useless. Hes slow and doesnt have any shot whatsoever. He doesnt take advantage of his size either.

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03-14-2007, 06:02 AM
  #514
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"lack of killer instinct"

Pretty much sums it up. We had the jump on a very good, but certainly beatable team. Then, we let them find their game and get in a groove instead of breaking their will with a continued forecheck and agressive neutral-zone play.

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03-14-2007, 06:51 AM
  #515
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Phew.
This thread turned into blame fest and crying of effing bandwagonners.
There must be lot of Islanders fans with fake accounts, otherwise i can't understand that
No surprise that it's still the same people...
I didn't see them to win this game, expectations of some posters here is just plain absurd.
This team is banged up, and yet they are still 5-2-3 in last ten.
It is becoming kinda irritating...
Only thing which concerns me is the lack of effort when they have comfortable lead, but this has been beaten to the death.

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Old
03-14-2007, 06:53 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Had to work also, just got home. I can't believe we were up by 2 again, AND LOST THE GAME, anybody know what actually game this is that we've blown a lead of more than 2? I'm going to guess 12 games.
Don't know the total, but this was the 5 consecutive game where they blew a 2 goal lead.

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03-14-2007, 08:28 AM
  #517
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Didn't read any of the thread but I assume there was at least some Malik bashing.

One of our sacred cows (Orts) had by far his worst game of the year. He looked like he forgot how to skate and he seemed unable to figure out how to move a puck with a stick. His failure directly led to one goal against. He's entitled to a bad game, though. Not picking on him. Just pointing it out.

Bottom line: We lost to a better team with a team depleted by one more injury. No shame in that. The effort was there. That's the most important thing.

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03-14-2007, 08:46 AM
  #518
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hes not being sarcastic. He despises Henrik.
Maybe he thinks Garth Snow was a great goaltender.

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03-14-2007, 08:48 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Balej20 View Post
Best forward on the team this season.
If not sarcastic, then ..........

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Old
03-14-2007, 09:32 AM
  #520
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Another tough one to swallow. You guys hate all you want, but I saw the Rangers playing a pretty good game. Only 5 D-men, hit a few posts, Emery was great and a bad break goal off Malik. Even Alfredsen's goal was lucky. I'm as pissed as anyone that they lost, but not at how they played.

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03-14-2007, 10:02 AM
  #521
Fletch
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I'm glad...

I missed this game to listen to Bill Clinton speak. Left work after 2-0 in the first and decided not to watch the game when I got home after midnight. Boy am I glad. Blowing leads is not the sign of a quality playoff team. Playing 60 minutes has been something that's plagued this team since after the Olympics.

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03-14-2007, 10:19 AM
  #522
In The Flesh
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how was Avery in the game?

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03-14-2007, 10:27 AM
  #523
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Hank loses another must win game is my headline

Ortmyer is just better off playing without a stick. The kid is all hustle and no puck handling or shooting skills at all.

Malik is running the a betting scam against the Rangers where is and a few others who refuse to shoot i will not mention names due to fearof being called a raciest bet agaisnt the Rangers and cover the spread with Malik scoring. Hank may be in on it as he seems to fall down deep in his net a lot. The NHL is secretly calling this the

" The Blue Sox Scandel"

nationalism is a powerful word as I am a American and feel i have the right to bash all the Euro players I want without having to explain myself to anyone.

American shoot the puck or leave

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03-14-2007, 10:47 AM
  #524
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It's bit funny to read the last GDT and then continue to this...

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Old
03-14-2007, 11:11 AM
  #525
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
nationalism is a powerful word as I am a American and feel i have the right to bash all the Euro players I want without having to explain myself to anyone.

American shoot the puck or leave
I kind of agree on the Nationalist thing, don't think it suits.

Though, the stupidity the level of the bashing have taken itself is enough to get allot of people upset.

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