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Prediction: HF's Top 10 Prospects

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Old
03-15-2007, 02:45 PM
  #76
Kevin Forbes
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
I dont think that HF is going to fit all of those goalies into the top 25..........I think they are going to pick out Price (top 10) Irving (about 15) Harding and Rask (about 20-25) and I think they are going to leave Pogge and Montoya off the list altogether. Has somewhat to do with age, somewhat to do with struggles after a the draft year, and I personally just don't see Montoya as being that great.......he had a real nice world junior tourney and since then has been inconsistent at best.
Pogge is already listed at 34
Irving is already listed at 41

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:21 PM
  #77
Jeepers Creeper
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
potential compare with previous accomplishment ... tell that to Roy or Hasek ...
Potential is very subjective !
If Price or Montoya ever becomes a Roy or Hasek or even a regular NHL'er for that matter, then the past accomplishments in juniors dont mean ****. But at this point when they're both young, you simply can't ignore what they have accomplished.

Your previous comparision is heavily in favour of Price, which is unfair because Montoya obviously had an off-year while Price is having a great one. Why to limit the comparision only to the point when they both were 19/20? You obviously did it because then the comparision is in favour of Price, didn't you?

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03-15-2007, 03:41 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SPG View Post
Ohh, thats right. Halak is a Habs prospect. I guess that makes him the second coming of Patrick Roy on these boards by default
at least Halak is the same age playing in the same league, so they are comparable. Their numbers are pretty similar this year, Halak's being a bit better over all but Montoya's are probably better over the second half of the season.

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:44 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPG View Post
Ohh, thats right. Halak is a Habs prospect. I guess that makes him the second coming of Patrick Roy on these boards by default
of course
habs prospect should all become the succesor of the greatest habs..
didnt you know that
halak = roy
price = plante
kostitsyn = the Rocket
latendresse = beliveau
locke = pocket richard
komisarek = larry robinson
fischer = doug harvey
chipchura = bob gainey
etc..

instead of bashing everything related toward habs try to use your brain the next time !


Last edited by Jeffrey: 03-15-2007 at 03:53 PM.
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Old
03-15-2007, 03:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by blacklabel View Post
If Price or Montoya ever becomes a Roy or Hasek or even a regular NHL'er for that matter, then the past accomplishments in juniors dont mean ****. But at this point when they're both young, you simply can't ignore what they have accomplished.

Your previous comparision is heavily in favour of Price, which is unfair because Montoya obviously had an off-year while Price is having a great one. Why to limit the comparision only to the point when they both were 19/20? You obviously did it because then the comparision is in favour of Price, didn't you?
you obviously missed my point
Potential is not about previous stats it's about projection ...
if a player like locke potential was based on previous achievement he would have been drafted way higher than the 4th rd , samething for a lots of players.
Stats are not meaningless but it DOES NOT mean potential.
Potential is the ceiling a prospect or a player have and not his current play.

As for the comparison , go ahead and post both goaltender stats and you'll obviously wont see any difference between price and montoya.

And for the AHL argument , you guys still bring that montoya is great in the AHL and everything he has accomplished is great but you discredit Halak who's doing even better than Montoya in the AHL (and you dont see any habs fans complaining because he's not in the top 50 hf prospects ranking).

And price still cannot play in the AHL.. it's not his fault , its a rules and unless his team lose very fast in the playoff, you won't see him play in the AHL this year.

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Old
03-15-2007, 03:53 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SPG View Post
Ohh, thats right. Halak is a Habs prospect. I guess that makes him the second coming of Patrick Roy on these boards by default
He clearly doesn't need to be the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy to be considered a better prospect than Montoya.

And the perpetual 'overrated because he's a Hab prospect' thing is getting very old. I think it's created because every non-Habs poster bash every Habs prospect and the Montreal posters obviously defend them to counter the mega bashing and it makes it look like they are overrating them.

A good example of this is Andrei Kostitsyn. Every non-Habs fan poster thinks and claims he's a bust while they have not followed his developpment at all and are just saying this because he's a Habs prospect and he hasn't made the NHL as fast as people thought. The fact is that Andrei Kostitsyn has made steady progress since coming to North America and he's now NHL ready and has shown great things so far that shows he could be an impact player at the NHL level.

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Old
03-15-2007, 04:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
you obviously missed my point
Potential is not about previous stats it's about projection ...
if a player like locke potential was based on previous achievement he would have been drafted way higher than the 4th rd , samething for a lots of players.
Stats are not meaningless but it DOES NOT mean potential.
Potential is the ceiling a prospect or a player have and not his current play.

As for the comparison , go ahead and post both goaltender stats and you'll obviously wont see any difference between price and montoya.
All I am arguing with you is that the comparision is unfair when you dicede to compare Price in 2006-07 (when he's having a great year) to Montoya in 2004-05 (when he was having an off-year) as if that would an indicator to their potential. That's just a biased and very simple way to look at it.

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Old
03-15-2007, 04:53 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
you obviously missed my point
Potential is not about previous stats it's about projection ...
if a player like locke potential was based on previous achievement he would have been drafted way higher than the 4th rd , samething for a lots of players.
Stats are not meaningless but it DOES NOT mean potential.
Potential is the ceiling a prospect or a player have and not his current play.

As for the comparison , go ahead and post both goaltender stats and you'll obviously wont see any difference between price and montoya.

And for the AHL argument , you guys still bring that montoya is great in the AHL and everything he has accomplished is great but you discredit Halak who's doing even better than Montoya in the AHL (and you dont see any habs fans complaining because he's not in the top 50 hf prospects ranking).

And price still cannot play in the AHL.. it's not his fault , its a rules and unless his team lose very fast in the playoff, you won't see him play in the AHL this year.
I've never derided Halak. My issue is with Price, Irving, Bernier, ect. being rated over Montoya when None of them has done anything that Al didn't do at the same age and none of them has made the next step.

I'm not saying it's price's fault that he's not in the AHL, my argument is that you can't rank Price ahead of Montoya because you don't know what Price is going to do at the next level. Givn two prospects with similar junior backgrounds, I'll take the older one who has already proven himself at the AHL level, that's all.

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Old
03-15-2007, 05:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
so great in the AHL would be inconsistent?
Inconsistent in the AHL would be inconsistent.

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Old
03-15-2007, 05:40 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
I've never derided Halak. My issue is with Price, Irving, Bernier, ect. being rated over Montoya when None of them has done anything that Al didn't do at the same age and none of them has made the next step.
Rankings aren't based on experience, they're based on potential.

Put it this way, Mr. Daniel "Bust" Tkaczuk has played more NHL games than Jonathan Toews and has had more opportunities, does that make him a better prospect? No, not at all.

If a player's upside is higher than another's that's infinitely more important than what the player has accomplished already. Montoya is an '85 born, Bernier/Irving are both '88s. That means they have about 3 years to catch up.

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Old
03-15-2007, 07:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Inconsistent in the AHL would be inconsistent.
How has his play in the AHL been inconsistent?

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Old
03-15-2007, 07:43 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HaelWho View Post
Rankings aren't based on experience, they're based on potential.

Put it this way, Mr. Daniel "Bust" Tkaczuk has played more NHL games than Jonathan Toews and has had more opportunities, does that make him a better prospect? No, not at all.

If a player's upside is higher than another's that's infinitely more important than what the player has accomplished already. Montoya is an '85 born, Bernier/Irving are both '88s. That means they have about 3 years to catch up.
I understand that, but Montoya's upside is quite high. And there is nothing that any of these young guys are doing in juniors that Al didn't do when he was their age.

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Old
03-15-2007, 07:44 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Inconsistent in the AHL would be inconsistent.
show me where he's been inconsistant in the AHL!

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Old
03-15-2007, 07:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Knighttown View Post
Anyone else have a feeling that Kyle Okposo could be the best forward of this group in 5-7 years?? Not an Isles fan just really impressed with what I've seen. Saying that, he probably will fall just outside the top 5 on HF's list assuming they don't include the current NHLers nearing 65 games played.
It depends if you are including guys who are established NHL'ers like Kopitar, Stastny, etc

my top 10 minus guys like that..
1. EJ
2. JJ
3. Backstrom
4. Kessel
5. Staal
6. Radulov
7. Ryan
8. Okposo
9. Rask
10. Montoya/Price/Letang..can't decide


Last edited by Randall Graves*: 03-15-2007 at 08:10 PM.
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Old
03-15-2007, 09:25 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
It depends if you are including guys who are established NHL'ers like Kopitar, Stastny, etc

my top 10 minus guys like that..
1. EJ
2. JJ
3. Backstrom
4. Kessel
5. Staal
6. Radulov
7. Ryan
8. Okposo
9. Rask
10. Montoya/Price/Letang..can't decide
I liked your list, but Staal (if you're talking about Marc) Ryan, Okposo, Rask, Montoya, Price and Letang were are all "taken" so far.

So

EJ
JJ
Kessel
Backstrom
Radulov from your list are still "available".

So the other fives are?

We can assume Ryan Parent is right there. Don't have a clue about the other guys, though. So remains 4 guys, but the key is : when they made up this ranking?

Kopitar, Malkin, Gilbert Brulé - they all missed games this season - could be of them, depending on. Maybe even Matt Carle...

Staal (Jordan) Latendresse and Stasny are probably over the mark. Don't think Latendresse would have anything to do in the Top-10 anyways, so if he could still be picked, he would already have been. Staal likely played too much games.

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Old
03-15-2007, 10:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Do you really need someone to tell you that Downie isn't a top-25 prospect? I'm willing to take that one on faith.
Looks like HF has a different "faith" than you. People get so down on Downie because of his antics, fact is he's one of the biggest locks to be an NHLer.. does he have superstar upside? No but he's almost a lock to make the league, be it a third line pest or gritty 2nd liner.

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Old
03-15-2007, 10:45 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ratfinklives View Post
Looks like HF has a different "faith" than you. People get so down on Downie because of his antics, fact is he's one of the biggest locks to be an NHLer.. does he have superstar upside? No but he's almost a lock to make the league, be it a third line pest or gritty 2nd liner.
Yup, I'm obviously eating crow on that one. Let's just say I disagree with HF staff on that one, and move on. It's not worth dwelling on.

I imagine the top 10 will be, in no order:

EJ
JJ
Backstrom
Toews
Kessel
Radulov
Barker
Mueller
Rask
O'Sullivan

Not quite the same list I would have come up with, but those are *probably* the guys that made it. I suppose Parent might have made his way in there somehow too.


Last edited by Squeaky: 03-15-2007 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Subbed O'Sullivan for Parent
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Old
03-15-2007, 11:14 PM
  #93
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Alexandre Daigle.

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Old
03-15-2007, 11:25 PM
  #94
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Schremp is going to be in the top ten, and a lot of us oiler fans are surprised!

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03-15-2007, 11:42 PM
  #95
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Schremp is going to be in the top ten, and a lot of us oiler fans are surprised!
I'm not so sure he is.

Unless O'Sullivan is dropped and Parent isn't in the top 50.

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Old
03-15-2007, 11:44 PM
  #96
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I'm not so sure he is.
I dont think so myself ...
but i will be shocked if he's indeed in the top 10!

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Old
03-15-2007, 11:48 PM
  #97
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Well, nobody knows what to think, because he isn't in any of the top 50 so far, nor even in the "didn't make the cut" section. You'd think they would have mentioned it if he suddenly fell off the map.

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Old
03-16-2007, 12:06 AM
  #98
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so this thread had degenerated into a pack/hamilton montoya/halak pissing contest.
wonderfull

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Old
03-16-2007, 02:18 AM
  #99
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so this thread had degenerated into a pack/hamilton montoya/halak pissing contest.
wonderfull
So did the other thread.

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Old
03-16-2007, 02:24 AM
  #100
xander
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So did the other thread.
eh, more montoya/price than montoya/halak. anyway, I'll accept some responcibilty for that , as I'm one of the primary fiqures in that debate. though nobody is stopping you from talking about other players

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