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OT: Brown a Yankee

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Old
12-11-2003, 12:37 PM
  #1
Barnaby
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OT: Brown a Yankee

To Yanks: Kevin Brown

To LA: Jeff Weaver and two unnamed prospects.

Yea, our rotation is younger allright. If Brown is healthy he can have a sub 3.00 ERA... problem is he's never healthy. Now we get to pull our hair out as Weaver wins 16 games in LA next year and we sit wondering what the heck was wrong with that guys head?

Mussina
Vazquez
Brown
Conteras
Lieber / Wells

Not much of a decline over last year ... actually an improvement if Brown is healthy. Problem is he probably wont be, but dont worry... Schilling will get enough wins for pitchers over 37.... oh yea and they are probably getting A-Rod... good thing we still have the Bambino on our side

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Old
12-11-2003, 01:31 PM
  #2
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
To Yanks: Kevin Brown

To LA: Jeff Weaver and two unnamed prospects.

Yea, our rotation is younger allright. If Brown is healthy he can have a sub 3.00 ERA... problem is he's never healthy. Now we get to pull our hair out as Weaver wins 16 games in LA next year and we sit wondering what the heck was wrong with that guys head?

Mussina
Vazquez
Brown
Conteras
Lieber / Wells

Not much of a decline over last year ... actually an improvement if Brown is healthy. Problem is he probably wont be, but dont worry... Schilling will get enough wins for pitchers over 37.... oh yea and they are probably getting A-Rod... good thing we still have the Bambino on our side
im not scared of boston. lets see they add a-rod but subtract manny and nomar from the lineup. combine that with 4 guys who had career years last season. pedro a year older schilling first year playing againts the dh and the curse of the bambino and what do you get. yankees win the al east in a walk

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Old
12-11-2003, 01:34 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
im not scared of boston. lets see they add a-rod but subtract manny and nomar from the lineup. combine that with 4 guys who had career years last season. pedro a year older schilling first year playing againts the dh and the curse of the bambino and what do you get. yankees win the al east in a walk
Wish I had your confidence. Rumors have A-Rod for Manny. Then Nomar is shipped to Anahein for Washburn.

Rotation:

Schilling
Pedro
Washburn
Lowe
Wakefield

There line-up should be as good as last season. I dont know about you but I think this Epstein has done a terrific job if he can pull it off.

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Old
12-11-2003, 01:36 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
Wish I had your confidence. Rumors have A-Rod for Manny. Then Nomar is shipped to Anahein for Washburn.

Rotation:

Schilling
Pedro
Washburn
Lowe
Wakefield

There line-up should be as good as last season. I dont know about you but I think this Epstein has done a terrific job if he can pull it off.
that rotation still isnt as good as the yankees. the lineup isnt as good as the yankees. varitek muellar mallar and ortiz all had career years. there is no way all 4 play as well this season. oh well gotta love the baseball offseason

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12-11-2003, 01:42 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
that rotation still isnt as good as the yankees. the lineup isnt as good as the yankees. varitek muellar mallar and ortiz all had career years. there is no way all 4 play as well this season. oh well gotta love the baseball offseason
The Sox rotation is better than the Yankees if they do get Washburn. The AL East should be fun to watch this year. If the Jays make the moves that are rumored, they will have a pretty solid rotation themselves.

1. Halladay
2. Ponson
3, Batista
4. Lilly
5. Hentgen

Plus, the Jays and Sox have a better offense. I know The Yankees are still the team to beat in the AL East but don't look past the Jays.

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Old
12-11-2003, 01:48 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Garfield
The Sox rotation is better than the Yankees if they do get Washburn. The AL East should be fun to watch this year. If the Jays make the moves that are rumored, they will have a pretty solid rotation themselves.

1. Halladay
2. Ponson
3, Batista
4. Lilly
5. Hentgen

Plus, the Jays and Sox have a better offense. I know The Yankees are still the team to beat in the AL East but don't look past the Jays.
wow thats a rotation that scares people. a true number 1. a guy that has had one year of success an ok 4th starter. ted lilly who if he was a righty would be in AA and hentgan who had his best years long ago. a better offense with a sheffield giambi posada jeter soriano williams godzilla im not so sure the yankees will dying for runs. but who the hell knows anymore.

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Old
12-11-2003, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
wow thats a rotation that scares people. a true number 1. a guy that has had one year of success an ok 4th starter. ted lilly who if he was a righty would be in AA and hentgan who had his best years long ago. a better offense with a sheffield giambi posada jeter soriano williams godzilla im not so sure the yankees will dying for runs. but who the hell knows anymore.

Halladay is better than anyone in the Yankees rotation. Ponson is an awesome pitcher, do you watch much baseball ?? Lilly in AA, yeah okay, you didn't happen to see him down the stretch last year when he filled in for Mulder admirably. Hentgen, of course his best days are behind him but the same goes for Mussina, Wells & Brown. Hentgen had tommy john surgery and that takes a while to recover from. His ERA was under 4 in the second half which was better than Wells, Clemens, Mussina, Pettite etc..... Batista is great (3.57 ERA), I don't see how you can say anything bad about him. I'm not saying the Jays are contenders (I feel they are very close) but just don't talk like it's all Yankees and Red Sox...that's all.

The Jays also have 2 MVP candidates, but you probably wouldn't know that because the American writers ripped them off. Shannon Stewart with more votes than Vernon Wells...that is ridiculous, playoffs or not. The Jays never get any credit below the border but we up here see how much they are improving and it won't be long before they take out the Yankees (2-3 years). But then again, the Yankees can just go and buy another team like they always do. It will be a good year and I can't wait to see all the moves tomorrow.

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Old
12-11-2003, 02:50 PM
  #8
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No offense but to me Epstein and Cashman are two of the most overrated GM's in baseball. they have monopoly money and can easily cover their infinite amount of mistakes.

i am not totally sold that essentially trading ramirez and nomar for a-rod and washburn is a great deal.

furthermore i've never been totally sold on a-rod as a "winner". he has the numbers and the contract and the endorsements, but i dont see him as a jeter or a nomar in the sense that you can just tell the guy bleeds for his team.

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12-11-2003, 03:08 PM
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WOW, Brown in Andy OUT! The Boss just took a play out of Slat's playbook!

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Old
12-11-2003, 03:33 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFAN
WOW, Brown in Andy OUT! The Boss just took a play out of Slat's playbook!
yea i know! they replaced pettitte who averages over a hit per inning with a guy that averages 175 or more K's a season and had the 2nd lowest era in the NL last year! dumb move! *shakes head*

brown proved he can pitch a full season last year so i am not that worried about his health.

Mussina-Brown-Vazquez-Wells-Contreras

as for boston, anaheim wont be trading washburn for nomar when they can just sign tejada and keep washburn. and by getting a-rod they open up more holes on the team, if they do trade either johnny damon or trot nixon as rumored. or both!

i can see a manny for a-rod trade then nomar goes to anaheim for adam kenneddy and some prospects.

if boston keeps damon and trades nixon this will be there lineup...

damon-kennedy-rodriguez-ortiz-millar-varitek-drew?-mueller-?


should be fun.

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Old
12-11-2003, 04:07 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
No offense but to me Epstein and Cashman are two of the most overrated GM's in baseball. they have monopoly money and can easily cover their infinite amount of mistakes.

i am not totally sold that essentially trading ramirez and nomar for a-rod and washburn is a great deal.

furthermore i've never been totally sold on a-rod as a "winner". he has the numbers and the contract and the endorsements, but i dont see him as a jeter or a nomar in the sense that you can just tell the guy bleeds for his team.
I agree on Cashman... George makes all the decisions so we dont know how good he is. Theo has made alot of good moves thus far. He's a gutsy young guy who I think will be a long-time quality GM.

Getting A-Rod is big. He is a hall of famer hands down. He did terrific with Seatle when they were making a run some ways back.

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Old
12-12-2003, 12:46 AM
  #12
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if i am not mistaken, didn't those A-Rod runs never get past the first round, or did they slip into the second round once?

As for Epstein, he's busy matching cashman quid pro quo bottom line. i really dont think either one is "great" at the moment. it's like watching a US - Soviet arms race.

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Old
12-12-2003, 04:20 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
No offense but to me Epstein and Cashman are two of the most overrated GM's in baseball. they have monopoly money and can easily cover their infinite amount of mistakes.
Don't think you are giving Cashman enough credit. When allowed to do so, he has made a good amount of very good moves. Lots of the flops have been Steinbrenner driven. Cash is one of the better GM's in the business. Rumor had it that there were several teams who were praying that Steinbrenner fires him this past year. Steinbrenner is not a complete cretin. That's why he did not allow Cashman to be interivewed by either Seattle or LA. Both of those teams wanted Cashman pretty badly.

Barnaby,

"Schilling
Pedro
Washburn
Lowe
Wakefield"

Let's not get overhyped here. Schilling is great as is Pedro. But Pedro is about as durable as Brown and the Yanks have proved that if you can force Pedro to throw, you can knock him out by the 6th inning. As for Washburn, 2 years ago he was great, last year he was mediocre. Lowe cannot win a game outside of Fenway to save his life and cannot stay consistent as it is. Wakefield pitches ok on some days and just gets MAULED on others. No one fears him. Yes, he pitched fairly well against the 'Yanks in the playoffs, but overall the Yankees own him.

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Old
12-12-2003, 05:16 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
yea i know! they replaced pettitte who averages over a hit per inning with a guy that averages 175 or more K's a season and had the 2nd lowest era in the NL last year! dumb move! *shakes head*

brown proved he can pitch a full season last year so i am not that worried about his health.
More like a guy 8 years older for one of your homegrown guys.

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12-12-2003, 05:27 AM
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Tb...

how do you determine what flops are George's and what are Cashman's, and which successes are George's and which are Cashman's? TO me, Cashman inherited a very good team with most positions filled. All he had to do is tweak here and there to be a bit more of a contender.

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12-12-2003, 07:35 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Fletch
how do you determine what flops are George's and what are Cashman's, and which successes are George's and which are Cashman's?
Read/hear a lot of what Cashman wants and what George wants. Cashman and Torre are on the same page a lot. Both Torre and Cashman were dead set against trading Pettite a few years ago as George wanted to. Cashman was against signing Andy Morales to a 3 year $18m contract. Steinbrenner wanted the Cuban 3rb baseman and signed him. Morales never set foot in Yankee stadium. Cashman was against trading Claussen and Steinbrenner wanted a trade, any trade done. He forced Cashman to trade him for Boone. It was Cashman who had to talk Steinbrenner out of trading Soriano for Jim Edmonds a few years ago.

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Old
12-12-2003, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnaby63
yea i know! they replaced pettitte who averages over a hit per inning with a guy that averages 175 or more K's a season and had the 2nd lowest era in the NL last year! dumb move! *shakes head*

brown proved he can pitch a full season last year so i am not that worried about his health.

Mussina-Brown-Vazquez-Wells-Contreras

as for boston, anaheim wont be trading washburn for nomar when they can just sign tejada and keep washburn. and by getting a-rod they open up more holes on the team, if they do trade either johnny damon or trot nixon as rumored. or both!

i can see a manny for a-rod trade then nomar goes to anaheim for adam kenneddy and some prospects.

if boston keeps damon and trades nixon this will be there lineup...

damon-kennedy-rodriguez-ortiz-millar-varitek-drew?-mueller-?


should be fun.

And in 2 very very short years when Andy is still in his pitching prime we will have nothing as Brown will have retired.

Guys like him don't slow down, they STOP.

He won't pitch more than 22 starts this season and the fact that he's a royal pr!ck and so tightly wound I could see him totally flopping in NY.

He can't stand talking to the small media crew in LA, how do you think he's going to react to the frenzy that he will face in NY on the days he doesn't pitch let along on the days he does pitch?

God forbid he has a bad game.


One of the thing that made the Yankees special over the last 7 years is that they built the team around a group of solid citizens that can play the game. Now they are building the team around creeps and cretins that can play the game.

Sounds like the late 80's and eary 90's if you as me. And not sure how short the memories are, but they were the worst of times for Yankees fans.

Brown is a mistake in the same way that Jagr is a mistake.

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12-12-2003, 08:13 AM
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sure hurt to see Pettitte go.

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12-12-2003, 09:17 AM
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I love Andy but I would rather have Brown if he was 30. Brown is the better pitcher considering talent but he is always hurt. One healthy year in 3 doesnt inspire much confidence. Pettite was also one of the original heart and soul guys in that clubhouse.



DO NOT SIGN SHEFFIELD

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Old
12-12-2003, 10:05 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jar jar links
that rotation still isnt as good as the yankees. the lineup isnt as good as the yankees. varitek muellar mallar and ortiz all had career years. there is no way all 4 play as well this season. oh well gotta love the baseball offseason
Championships are not won on paper. Stat wise ....yanks are better

go Red Sox

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12-12-2003, 01:10 PM
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i'd take mussina/vazquez/brown over schilling, martinez and lowe any day....
brown, when healthy, is top 5 pitcher in the league, no doubt....
we're still better that the sox, i'm not worried

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Old
12-12-2003, 02:19 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidchrome
Championships are not won on paper. Stat wise ....yanks are better

go Red Sox
Statwise the sox are better. They had a better offense last year and now they have Pedro and Schilling...

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Old
12-13-2003, 05:50 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
And in 2 very very short years when Andy is still in his pitching prime we will have nothing as Brown will have retired.

Guys like him don't slow down, they STOP.

He won't pitch more than 22 starts this season and the fact that he's a royal pr!ck and so tightly wound I could see him totally flopping in NY.

He can't stand talking to the small media crew in LA, how do you think he's going to react to the frenzy that he will face in NY on the days he doesn't pitch let along on the days he does pitch?

God forbid he has a bad game.


One of the thing that made the Yankees special over the last 7 years is that they built the team around a group of solid citizens that can play the game. Now they are building the team around creeps and cretins that can play the game.

Sounds like the late 80's and eary 90's if you as me. And not sure how short the memories are, but they were the worst of times for Yankees fans.

Brown is a mistake in the same way that Jagr is a mistake.
lets not forget hudson and wood are free agents after next season. i have a strange feeling mr steinbrenner will be all over those guys

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:15 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by jar jar links
lets not forget hudson and wood are free agents after next season. i have a strange feeling mr steinbrenner will be all over those guys
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Tim Hudson.

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12-14-2003, 07:33 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
I love Andy but I would rather have Brown if he was 30. Brown is the better pitcher considering talent but he is always hurt. One healthy year in 3 doesnt inspire much confidence. Pettite was also one of the original heart and soul guys in that clubhouse.



DO NOT SIGN SHEFFIELD
why wouldnt you sign sheff? hes nasty and hes the bat they need.

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