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Kastitsyn scores 3...

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:04 AM
  #1
Slick Nick
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Kastitsyn scores 3...

....VS Estonia.

Belarus plays VS Italy (which lost 7-0 to Norway) tomorrow, VS France monday...Japan and Norway later next week.

In what ways will this tournament make progress Kastitsyn's career, he should've stayed with CSKA.

The IIHF should review it's system. I think they should add 2 more spots in group 1, or at least try a qualification round... Teams like Belarus and Kazakhstan shouldn't be playing against such weak teams as Italy or Japan, this is just a waste of time.

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12-13-2003, 11:25 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
....VS Estonia.

Belarus plays VS Italy (which lost 7-0 to Norway) tomorrow, VS France monday...Japan and Norway later next week.

In what ways will this tournament make progress Kastitsyn's career, he should've stayed with CSKA.

The IIHF should review it's system. I think they should add 2 more spots in group 1, or at least try a qualification round... Teams like Belarus and Kazakhstan shouldn't be playing against such weak teams as Italy or Japan, this is just a waste of time.
I'am agree, 2 more spots will be great and that also means that two new teams would make the tournament. The only problem is the fact that teams like US, Canada and Russia would beat these team 15-0

But now IMO teams like Belarus, Kazakstan, Germany, Ukraine, Austria are near to be competitive with the others just remind the Swiss 5 or 6 years ago they were not competitive but now...

For France Italy UK they should continu to play soccer, they will never be good because the sports is too marginal in their country

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Old
12-13-2003, 01:02 PM
  #3
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Kastitsyn wont progress in this kind of tournament.There is no opposition.

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Old
12-13-2003, 02:36 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L3DZ3P
Kastitsyn wont progress in this kind of tournament.There is no opposition.
I don't think he's there to "make progress", but to help his country advance to Group A WC's.

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Old
12-13-2003, 02:45 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi
I don't think he's there to "make progress", but to help his country advance to Group A WC's.
THIS IS the point!
It should be obvious..
It is absolutely right where he is playing .

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Old
12-13-2003, 02:50 PM
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Jussi has it right. As important as it is to progress your career at this age, why would he give up the chance to represent his country and help them get back into Pool A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfernic
I'am agree, 2 more spots will be great and that also means that two new teams would make the tournament.
Two new teams play in Pool A every year with the current system. What do you think Austria and Ukraine are this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfernic
For France Italy UK they should continu to play soccer, they will never be good because the sports is too marginal in their country
This is quite the ignorant comment. How do you think nations become good in a sport? They have to start somewhere.

Did you know that Great Britain won the Gold Medal in mens hockey at the 1936 Winter Olympics?

There are conflicting stories of where hockey was invented, but there are circulating stories that our beloved sport was invented in The Netherlands or in England.

My point is that the more countries that play the sport, the better. If ice hockey continues to grow like it is, it could become a world sport by mid-century. Just look at some of the countries that are fielding teams now...Mexico, China, New Zealand, and many more.

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Old
12-13-2003, 07:56 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi
I don't think he's there to "make progress", but to help his country advance to Group A WC's.
That's not what I meant, as a Montreal Canadiens fan, I dont want to see a player like Kastitsyn wasting his time playing against team Japan. I mean, Belarus could have send their Junior C team and still would have easily won their group. It's just ridiculous...

Teams like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Gemany, Latvia, Austria, Ukraine... should have a qualification round...like at the Olympic games...

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Old
12-13-2003, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Teams like Belarus, Kazakhstan, Gemany, Latvia, Austria, Ukraine... should have a qualification round...like at the Olympic games...
1. What federation will accept having their U20 team play at a qualification round with no guarantee of actually playing in a tournament?

2. The teams that don't make it through the qualification round go home after 2-3 games. At the U20 level, these tournaments (even lower than the Pool A level) are meant in part for players to expose themselves to scouts on an international level.

3. Who decides which teams get to play at this qualification round? From the way you put it, it sounds like teams like Italy, France, Denmark, Slovenia, etc should never have a chance.

Basically, the tournament that Belarus is playing in right now IS a qualification round....for the 2005 World U20 Pool A tournament.


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Old
12-13-2003, 09:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
1. What federation will accept having their U20 team play at a qualification round with no guarantee of actually playing in a tournament?

2. The teams that don't make it through the qualification round go home after 2-3 games. At the U20 level, these tournaments (even lower than the Pool A level) are meant in part for players to expose themselves to scouts on an international level.

3. Who decides which teams get to play at this qualification round? From the way you put it, it sounds like teams like Italy, France, Denmark, Slovenia, etc should never have a chance.

Basically, the tournament that Belarus is playing in right now IS a qualification round....for the 2005 World U20 Pool A tournament.
1. All of them should, I doubt Canada, Russia, Czechs, USA, Finland, Sweden or Slovakia would have trouble getting into group A after a qualification round.

2. I didn't say the teams that can't make it to group A should go back home. I said to make group A, there should be a qualification round, and 2 more spots for stronger teams like BLR, UKR, KHZ, AUS, LAT, GER...... that makes 4 spots for 'weaker' teams...

3. They all would...

Basically, tour idea is; Canada, Russia, Czechs, Swedes, Finalnd, Slovakia and USA will always be in the tournament.. and teams like Autria, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Germany, Latvia, Italy, Japan, Estonia, France....will join the tournament once every 5 years...just to lose 10-0??and who cares about which of these teams is better.......

Please...it's not a senior league, players only have 1 or 2 chances in their life to play at the U20....why should a 19 years old guy pay for the team that sucked the year before.... everybody should get their chance...


Last edited by Slick Nick: 12-13-2003 at 09:13 PM.
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Old
12-13-2003, 09:35 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
2. I didn't say the teams that can't make it to group A should go back home.
Then where would they go? If they play a qualification round the same year of the tournament they are trying to qualify for, there is nowhere else to go for the losing teams.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Basically, tour idea is; Canada, Russia, Czechs, Swedes, Finalnd, Slovakia and USA will always be in the tournament..
What if one of these teams has a bad tournament and finishes in the bottom 2? (or bottom 4 in your tournament world)...it is possible. Canada finished 8th in 1998...Sweden hasn't fielded a comptetitive U20 team for a few years now. Hell, they were one loss away from playing in Division I this year.

Why should these teams always be in Pool A based on who they are?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
and teams like Autria, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Germany, Latvia, Italy, Japan, Estonia, France....will join the tournament once every 5 years
How do you decide who joins and when?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
everybody should get their chance...
...At the expense of others? Why reward players whose team has not earned the right to be at the Pool A tournament?

Belarus, whom Kastitsyn DID play for last year, finished in last place. Why should they be placed at the same tournament the following year?

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Old
12-13-2003, 09:56 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Then where would they go? If they play a qualification round the same year of the tournament they are trying to qualify for, there is nowhere else to go for the losing teams.





What if one of these teams has a bad tournament and finishes in the bottom 2? (or bottom 4 in your tournament world)...it is possible. Canada finished 8th in 1998...Sweden hasn't fielded a comptetitive U20 team for a few years now. Hell, they were one loss away from playing in Division I this year.

Why should these teams always be in Pool A based on who they are?




How do you decide who joins and when?




...At the expense of others? Why reward players whose team has not earned the right to be at the Pool A tournament?

Belarus, whom Kastitsyn DID play for last year, finished in last place. Why should they be placed at the same tournament the following year?
Are you stupid??

The only thing I'm saying is :

Every team should go by a qualification round.. LIKE IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES.... the teams that don't make it to group A, would have their own group...a B group....... Group B would result of what kind of performence the country had, and not the kind of performence last years team had.............understand????

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Are you stupid??

The only thing I'm saying is :

Every team should go by a qualification round.. LIKE IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES.... the teams that don't make it to group A, would have their own group...a B group....... Group B would result of what kind of performence the country had, and not the kind of performence last years team had.............understand????
Every team doesn't play a qualification round for the Olympic Games.

The top 6 teams from the previous Olympics don't have to play a qualification round. That means Belarus already has their spot at the main tournament for Torino 2006 while the Czech Republic who finished 7th in 2002, will have to play the preliminary qualification round in Torino.

This is how the teams were decided for the 2002 Olympics. Games were played from 1999 through 2002:

http://www.iihf.com/hockey/olympic/img/ogm.pdf


There is no other efficient way to run the U20, Senior and U18 World Championships that happen every year. The reason the Olympics can function with qualification rounds is because the big tournament only happens every four years, therefore there is time to play all the preliminary quailfications.

PS: I don't appreciate your arrogance....especially when it was based on your own ignorance of the Olympic qualification system.

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:14 PM
  #13
Slick Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Every team doesn't play a qualification round for the Olympic Games.

The top 6 teams from the previous Olympics don't have to play a qualification round. That means Belarus already has their spot at the main tournament for Torino 2006 while the Czech Republic who finished 7th in 2002, will have to play the preliminary qualification round in Torino.

This is how the teams were decided for the 2002 Olympics. Games were played from 1999 through 2002:

http://www.iihf.com/hockey/olympic/img/ogm.pdf


There is no other efficient way to run the U20, Senior and U18 World Championships that happen every year. The reason the Olympics can function with qualification rounds is because the big tournament only happens every four years, therefore there is time to play all the preliminary quailfications.

PS: I don't appreciate your arrogance....especially when it was based on your own ignorance of the Olympic qualification system.
Dude,I thought i specifed 8 teams, and 4 spots for weaker teams.... I thought you understood what was the Olympic system... I thought you might have remebered incidents with team Slovakia who waen't able to qualify because the GM's didn't release their players.... I assumed you knew all of this..next time I'll explain you everything... damn...

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Dude,I thought i specifed 8 teams, and 4 spots for weaker teams.... I thought you understood what was the Olympic system... I thought you might have remebered incidents with team Slovakia who waen't able to qualify because the GM's didn't release their players.... I assumed you knew all of this..next time I'll explain you everything... damn...

Dude...I just showed you the Olympic system.

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
Dude...I just showed you the Olympic system.
Note to myself: Assuming people are smart isin't a good thing......

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Note to myself: Assuming people are smart isin't a good thing......
It shouldn't take long for Cyclops, Draftman or Zoidberg to point you towards the HF Board Rules.


And to stay on topic...Your "specification" of 8 regular teams and 4 spots for weaker teams is not the current Olympic system. It is your own opinion of what the current U20 system should be.

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:27 PM
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Van is of course correct, and has provided a link justifying his claims. I don't see why this is continuing.

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Old
12-13-2003, 10:29 PM
  #18
Slick Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
It shouldn't take long for Cyclops, Draftman or Zoidberg to point you towards the HF Board Rules.


And to stay on topic...Your "specification" of 8 regular teams and 4 spots for weaker teams is not the current Olympic system. It is your own opinion of what the current U20 system should be.
Canada, Russia, Finland, Sweden, Czech Rep., Slovakia, USA... lets then says 7 regulars.......sorry, I thought Swizterland was almost one in the U20.

The 8 first teams get auto-participation.. all the others pass by qualifications.. is that enough for you?

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12-13-2003, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
The 8 first teams get auto-participation.. all the others pass by qualifications.. is that enough for you?
You aren't giving enough details as to how your system will work.

So far from you, I have....

The top 8 teams from the previous year get their spots at the Pool A tournament. (The way it is now)....There is a qualification tournament where 4 more entries into the Pool A tournament are awarded.

So now what we need to know is...

1. How many teams are in this qualification tournament?
2. How do we determine which teams get spots at this qualification tournament?
3. When does this qualification tournament take place?
4. How does this affect the World U20 Championship at the Div. I, II and III levels?
5. How does this affect the club teams that the qualifying players play for? Are these club teams willing, or required to give up their players for that extra tournament?

We need details...

The IIHF just changed the system for U20 and U18 so more lesser known nations and players have a shot at Pool A competition. With only one season to complete the entire show, this is the best it can be.

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12-13-2003, 10:39 PM
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This is IIHF's job, not mine... The only thing I know is you can't just rotate teams.... it's unfair..You have to agree with me on that!

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12-13-2003, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
This is IIHF's job, not mine...
You're the one trying to come up with a new system, not the IIHF. If you want to show people that your system can work, you have to come up with all the details. That's just common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
The only thing I know is you can't just rotate teams.... it's unfair..You have to agree with me on that!
I have never spoke out against this....and the IIHF doesn't do that now.

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12-13-2003, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
You're the one trying to come up with a new system, not the IIHF. If you want to show people that your system can work, you have to come up with all the details. That's just common sense.



I have never spoke out against this....and the IIHF doesn't do that now.
Never spoke against it???...read your first comments...

Details...3am...g'night...

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Old
12-13-2003, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
Never spoke against it???...read your first comments...
I have not supported the rotation of the "weaker" teams through the Pool A tournament.

You're trying way too hard to make me look like a fool. Telling me that I said things that I didn't only makes you look bad.

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12-14-2003, 04:10 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Nick
I mean, Belarus could have send their Junior C team and still would have easily won their group. It's just ridiculous...
You just don't know anything about International hockey. 2 years ago, it took near 15 penalty shots for Belarus to beat France and save their ticket in the WJC. Well, it was only a 1 year delay.........

Belarus hasn't a good team at all. Kastitsyn is one of a few great players, but, besides these, Belarus is no better than France for example.

In fact, you've got the top 7 (no need to repeat the countries), Switzerland, and many teams hard to sort : Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Latvia but also Germany, France, Austria, Italy, Norway and a few others.....

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12-14-2003, 08:39 AM
  #25
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All I have to say is that I vote for Slick Nick, I think I'am the only one who understand what you really want to do.

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