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The Young Guns Thread.....(Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Pock, etc)

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Old
03-16-2007, 10:57 PM
  #1
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The Young Guns Thread.....(Dubinsky, Callahan, Girardi, Pock, etc)

Talk about them, who are you impressed with, what type of future do with them as a Ranger, who needs more time in the minors? Anything you can think of, all talk about them goes here.

I'll start it off:

Dubinsky - Love him in the NHL, he may not be ready for a full time spot but he shows so much potential as a 20 year old. He won't back down to anyone and hits everything. Definitely see that little bit of an agitator in him (not like Avery but hes got that side of him). Give him a full taste of the AHL playoffs this season and a half or full season more in the AHL and bring this kid up for good. He is our future 2nd line center who can sub in for the 1st line with injuries. If there was one thing i'd want him to work on is his defensive zone coverage. At times he does look a little lost or it does take him a bit longer to realize where to go.

Callahan - Given a scoring role tonight he looked very good. Shoots everything, has a quick shot, played both ends very well and is a good skater that likes to hit. Hell, if he is on our future 3rd line then we could have a 20 goal 3rd liner in the future. I seem him bumping back and forth from the 2nd and 3rd line. Still very early though...looking forward to seeing him play a few more games in the NHL with around 10 minutes of ice time at least.

Girardi - He amazed me in the AHL last season being a nobody and playing well. He continued to play well this season in the AHL and was called up..since being called up he has been very solid in the AHL as a rookie. I have really no complaints on him but at times he seems to let the player go to the outside of him and beat him...that can be fixed though over time. I'd love to have him in a permanent role as our #5 defenseman for the next few years.

Pock - I have to admit, with all the anti-pock posts i really don't mind him. Last year I hated him because he stunk at defense. But he looks so much better then last year...he may be sacrificing the offense of his game but who cares, he's there to play defense. I've been happy with him so I wouldn't mind him being our #6 next year. If we get an upgrade in the future (like we should) I wouldn't mind getting rid of him though...re-sign him for a year IMO.

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03-16-2007, 11:03 PM
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THE FUTURE MAY LOOK BRIGHT INDEED!
I liked what I saw tonight from our young guys, they all seem to play hard & have a lot of heart!

I've been saying all along Pock can play, if given the chance, I've been a big supporter of him for a loooooooong time.

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03-16-2007, 11:06 PM
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Dubinksy needs more ice time. If that line would have been given more icetime tonight, they would have scored.

Other than that gripe, I am throughly impressed by all these guys. Pock is getting better every game, but he HAS to start stepping up his offensive game at some point.


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Old
03-16-2007, 11:13 PM
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I've been quite impressed since Dubinsky was called up. At 20, that bodes well for his future. Callahan also looked good, and both these guys aren't afraid of contact which is always a good thing.

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03-16-2007, 11:18 PM
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As anyone who's been pushing for the rangers to finally develop young talent, I'm getting the feeling we might have hit the motherlode the last three years. Last year established Henke, Tyuts and Prucha as legit NHL players. And, in watching Dubi, Cally and Girardi, I think we have three more players will be on the Rangers next year. You what I really liked? Both Dubi and Callahan paid no respect to Kovalchuk. Both hit him when they had a chance. Anyway, the Avery-Cullen-Callahan line is next year's 3rd line. And, Dubinsky shows he is a very viable candidate for 2nd line center next year. And, I'll admit that Girardi is a lot better player than I originally give him credit for being. And, we going to see Staal, Sauer, Pyatt and Dupont in Hartford next...possibly even Anisimov...so much to be excited about as a Ranger fan.

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03-16-2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
As anyone who's been pushing for the rangers to finally develop young talent, I'm getting the feeling we might have hit the motherlode the last three years. Last year established Henke, Tyuts and Prucha as legit NHL players. And, in watching Dubi, Cally and Girardi, I think we have three more players will be on the Rangers next year. You what I really liked? Both Dubi and Callahan paid no respect to Kovalchuk. Both hit him when they had a chance. Anyway, the Avery-Cullen-Callahan line is next year's 3rd line. And, Dubinsky shows he is a very viable candidate for 2nd line center next year. And, I'll admit that Girardi is a lot better player than I originally give him credit for being. And, we going to see Staal, Sauer, Pyatt and Dupont in Hartford next...possibly even Anisimov...so much to be excited about as a Ranger fan.

And that sums it up folks. Ignore HF lists, or THN lists......we have a BUNCH of prospects to be very excited for. Maybe not all 1st line players or #1 defenseman but we sure as hell have a very nice core to look forward toward.

Be excited..what we are witnessing right now is just the tip of the iceberg..

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03-16-2007, 11:23 PM
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Fly-

You're a tough one to impress.

Cally as a 3rd liner? Tying the pack;s rook goal record, gw ahl all star goal. I'd like to hold out hope he'll place a little higher in the future lineup.

Pock- I think is a goner, If Tyutin & Rachenuek make it back this season and we're still in the hunt, Pock is back to his reserved seat in the skybox, I'm sure his agent has already told him to get out of this orginzation. Especially if Renney's behind the bench.

Dubi- I agree w/ your assesment of Dubi, 2nd line center looks like his spot. Maybe he'll suprise us he is only 21, and been playing in the pro's for less than 6 months. He'll put on some more pounds learn to throw his big body around. Maybe he becomes a cross beween Joe Niewndiek and Keith Primeau.

So keep them fingers crossed. It's a nice change to have real prospects to forcast with. No more Dube's, Voriebov's, and Goneau's to be fooled by.

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03-16-2007, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
And that sums it up folks. Ignore HF lists, or THN lists......we have a BUNCH of prospects to be very excited for. Maybe not all 1st line players or #1 defenseman but we sure as hell have a very nice core to look forward toward.

Be excited..
I pretty much gave up on that after last year. When no top prospect lists had either Lundqvist or Prucha on them, and both could become the players they were last year, while many of the same hyped players fall by the wayside, its hard to put stock in them. Jeez, Callahan just scored 30+ in his 1st professional season, and he still doesn't get a sniff of HF's top 50? Yet, kids who are still in juniors are placed ahead of him. And, the continued snub of Michael Sauer is beyond comprehension. I think some of these kids are going to surpass initial pigeonholes the scouting reports have placed them in. Jeez, just look at Dubinsky...I don't even know what to project him as anymore. He's gone from 3rd line pest to possible 2nd line center to...well...potential power forward at the center position. And, all three of Dubinsky, Callahan and Girardi play a smart game. Plus, as Micheletti said during the game, these kids have moxie.

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03-16-2007, 11:31 PM
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I look at the Devils and I don't see that many HF Top 50 graduates or top 5 draft picks. What I do see is a team that is 3/4 home grown where the players care for each other, support each other and work in the same system year after year. Nice model.

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03-16-2007, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I pretty much gave up on that after last year. When no top prospect lists had either Lundqvist or Prucha on them, and both could become the players they were last year, while many of the same hyped players fall by the wayside, its hard to put stock in them. Jeez, Callahan just scored 30+ in his 1st professional season, and he still doesn't get a sniff of HF's top 50? Yet, kids who are still in juniors are placed ahead of him. And, the continued snub of Michael Sauer is beyond comprehension. I think some of these kids are going to surpass initial pigeonholes the scouting reports have placed them in. Jeez, just look at Dubinsky...I don't even know what to project him as anymore. He's gone from 3rd line pest to possible 2nd line center to...well...potential power forward at the center position. And, all three of Dubinsky, Callahan and Girardi play a smart game. Plus, as Micheletti said during the game, these kids have moxie.
That just about describes our system perfectly.

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Old
03-17-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I pretty much gave up on that after last year. When no top prospect lists had either Lundqvist or Prucha on them, and both could become the players they were last year, while many of the same hyped players fall by the wayside, its hard to put stock in them. Jeez, Callahan just scored 30+ in his 1st professional season, and he still doesn't get a sniff of HF's top 50? Yet, kids who are still in juniors are placed ahead of him. And, the continued snub of Michael Sauer is beyond comprehension. I think some of these kids are going to surpass initial pigeonholes the scouting reports have placed them in. Jeez, just look at Dubinsky...I don't even know what to project him as anymore. He's gone from 3rd line pest to possible 2nd line center to...well...potential power forward at the center position. And, all three of Dubinsky, Callahan and Girardi play a smart game. Plus, as Micheletti said during the game, these kids have moxie.
That is what has impressed me the most about these kids. They look absolutely fearless, not at all in awe of their surroundings, and totally ready to make the most of their NHL opportunity. I absolutely love it.

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03-17-2007, 12:35 AM
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i love what they're showing.. but a win for their effort would be fantastic

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03-17-2007, 12:53 AM
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Callahan really impressed me tonight. He was ALOT better this game than his first but that is probably cause he play on the 2nd line and not the 4th. Dubi defiently had his best game so far. Girardi has been a great suprise and he has been very solid for us on d. I love the job he has done on d.

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03-17-2007, 01:33 AM
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I am very impressed with Dubinsky. I don't think he should ever play another AHL game.

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03-17-2007, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
As anyone who's been pushing for the rangers to finally develop young talent, I'm getting the feeling we might have hit the motherlode the last three years. Last year established Henke, Tyuts and Prucha as legit NHL players. And, in watching Dubi, Cally and Girardi, I think we have three more players will be on the Rangers next year. You what I really liked? Both Dubi and Callahan paid no respect to Kovalchuk. Both hit him when they had a chance. Anyway, the Avery-Cullen-Callahan line is next year's 3rd line. And, Dubinsky shows he is a very viable candidate for 2nd line center next year. And, I'll admit that Girardi is a lot better player than I originally give him credit for being. And, we going to see Staal, Sauer, Pyatt and Dupont in Hartford next...possibly even Anisimov...so much to be excited about as a Ranger fan.
Solid Post Jas.

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth. The guys who are supposed to be some of our brighter lights are not even in HFD yet. Add to this list guys like Russell and Olver and you have to wonder if some folks days in HFD may be numbered. I think you alluded to this earlier. This might in part explain the 9 shot performance from Immo tonight. Pressure is a good thing.

Dubi and Cally are playing solid for the Rangers right now, but what is also impressive is that two years ago they were ranked somewhere near the bottom of our top 20. I don't think they were in our top ten. Some one can check that. Girardi was not even part of the organizarion then. That's three pretty pleasant surprises for Rangers fans. Could there be more?

The Rangers system would appear to be under rated, but I'm not concerned. I like better the idea of coming out of nowhere to surprise people.

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03-17-2007, 02:22 AM
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Dubinsky.. he's been in what 4-5 games? already has impressed me the most of all the guys brought up.. he's got size, knows how to use it and does.. he's got a good amount of skill to go along with that strength, and he can skate which is what i like most actually.. as for the less tangible things, he is always skating hard, skating to the puck, making little plays and causing something.. he just gets noticed out there for doing good things despite his little ice time.. have to admit, i wasn't super high on him not for any other reason than i didn't really care, but i'm definitely a fan now and feel he's got the upside to make us happy.. and upside i mean first line upside

Girardi.. people will say he's solid, imo he's been very good.. i can't even remember a bad play on his part.. the reports on him were dead on.. plays his game simple.. he is very good positionally, is strong and can be physical enough.. it doesn't seem like he's lacking offensive skill rather he doesn't make much use of it.. he's made crisp passes when he's gotten the opportunity but i don't recall any big shots from him.. also a good skater which is almost like a double plus considering how positionally sound he is

Cally.. can't really comment as i haven't really seen much other than tonights game which i only saw bits and pieces and the few shifts i saw from tonight he made a solid hit on tkachuk i believe, took a couple shots one of which was a tough shot.. fiesty player that i think we will enjoy more and more

Pock.. i started off liking him, have to say though lately he's been disappointing me to the point where i feel the rangers were right about him.. he just seems lost sometimes and makes too many mistakes.. almost reminds me of a more skilled malik with his occassional puck handling blunders

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03-17-2007, 07:05 AM
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Exceedingly happy with all our young players. The only negative: are any of them first line offensive players, potential top echelon players? That's the biggest weakness in the organization. Perhaps Ranger management is planning to build a solid base of 2nd and 3rd line in-house players and supplement them with top tier free agent signings. With the lowering of the age to become a UFA in a few years some amazing talent will be available. Can't you just picture all three Staals here?
On D, Staal and Tyutin are first pair defensemen so I feel much better as to our future there.
In goal: Henrik is already an elite goalie, the teams MVP this year. That brings up the often discussed question of what to do with our other possibly elite goalie, Montoya. My thought: get him some NHL experience and exposure next year as backup and then consider trading him at the deadline for young (not old) offensive talent. He's the biggest chip we have.

Dubinsky: playing exactly the way he played in training camp and when I saw him play for the Pack.What I like about him is when he is on the ice, things happen. The game seems to revolve around him. He is NHL ready now. Except for sending him back for the AHL playoffs, he shouldn't play another minute of minor league hockey. Not quite sure what his ceilling is yet: 2nd line all around center? 3rd line center with the skillset to dominate other 3rd line centers? How does his development change our UFA thinking for this summer and our oft expressed concern about the need for a 2nd line center. Next year: Nylander (if we resign him), Cullen, Dubinsky, Betts at #4. Do we still make a run at Briere, Drury, Gomez, etc?

Callahan: played well against Atlanta. Still need to see a bit more to be convinced that his skills translate to the NHL level. I'm always suspicious of AHL offensive stats; look at Helminen's 30 goal season last year, look at Jason Krog's AHL stats this year. Liked what I saw from Callahan and hope he gets a real shot the rest of the year.

Pock: well, I've expressed my thoughts on the original thread. He's developed into an NHL caliber D and should be resigned. Next step: having confidence in his defensive ability and having won the coaches confidence, he begins to show his offensive skill. Not a top pair or even a 2nd pair D, but a guy we need on the 3rd pair or for depth.

Girardi: amazing how a guy isn't drafted but develops into an NHL D. The learning curve for young D is long, but his inate hockey sense and intelligence will cut down on the time needed for him to establish himself. All young Ds eventually hit rough patches and it will be interesting to see what happens when he has his. Will he loose confidence and retrogress? Will he learn from his mistakes? You have to feel good about the possibility of Girarde establishing himself as a 3rd pair D and a valueable contributor over the next few years. I am concerned about the ability of forward to turn him and go wide around him.

Lost in the ozone: Dawes. He's perhaps the only one with first line offensive skills. This year has hurt his development and he has gone backwards. I put the blame largely on Ranger management. The fact that he went down to Hartford and seemed to sulk for a bit, though a normal reaction, does send up a red flag as to his personality. I do think he has more offensive upside than Callahan.

A thought about Prucha. I had my doubts about him even after last year and he was blatantly misused earlier this year. I have no doubts now. The guy is a valueable piece of the puzzle and though his stats say that he hasn't had the year he had last year, I'm happy with his development.

A note about past players mentioned here: I've always felt the players like Goneau and Dube could have been NHL players if handled correctly. There were points in their development when they were ready to be plugged in to full time roles and weren't. In many ways, their careers spiralled downward from there and they ended up in Europe or the UHL. The record indicates that the Rangers, through the late 90s and early 2000s never nutured young players. And young players need to be nutured. Others who come to mind: Malhotra, Lundmark, Brendl. Each had flaws that have hurt them and they have never developed into what was hoped (so perhaps the fault was theirs and not Ranger management and coaching) but I just can't help thinking that history could have been different.

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03-17-2007, 07:34 AM
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I did go to the Ottawa game--my one game every year seems to be against them and we always lose. I have to pick somebody else next year.

On Dubinsky--against Ottawa he made one great play stealing the puck and going in on the goaltender who made the save. Would like to see him get on the scoresheet--actually put him on the pwp--it's not working with the personnel we have now. He's getting opportunities and that would help his confidence. He's still a little awkward and he needs to get a little stronger but he doesn't look out of place at all. He's not been making dumb mistakes and he can keep up and he seems aware of his defensive responsibilities. I see him as a strong challenge for an NHL spot next summer--possibly we'll be moving Betts if we dip into the UFA market for a center. Very impressed with him.

Callahan--I haven't been able to see. Of his 3 games--in the first he played very sparingly against the Sabres. He had two shifts in the first period before I went to bed. I had to go to work the next day. The other two games including last night's have been blacked out in the area so I could watch the Sabres if I felt like it--which I didn't. 15 minutes of ice time and 4 shots. It seems to me he had a pretty good game.

Girardi--I expect he'll be with the club next year--depending on who comes back or on who they sign--he might be the 7th guy. He reminds me of Lidster. Just smart with the puck. Never panics--knows where his teammates are. He will make the simple play when he needs to. A little more speed would be helpful though. An improvement in that area and I could see this guy playing in the league 10-12 years from now.

Pck is different to me than these other 3 because he's a bit older. I am actually expecting he will be in some other uniform next year. I think he's played fairly well for us in the role he's put into. He hasn't provided much offense though that may be coming. His first full season in Hartford he had something like 7 pts. The next season it seems he had over 50. Someone else might get the benefit of all that. Don't think we've used him very well. Certainly could have give him a shot once in a while on the pwp. Even now it seems like a better option than having Straka with his bum shoulder there.

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03-17-2007, 09:16 AM
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I was expecting to see Pock on the PP last night with Rachunek being out, instead I see Malik out there. Lol I should know better by now.

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03-17-2007, 09:57 AM
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The beauty

of having a deep system is that your bound to have pleasant surprises and that coupled with supposed sure things like Staal, Sauer and Sanguinetti is a recipe for stardom. Prucha and Lundqvist were late picks, but we could have only hoped for that kind of luck since we had no particular depth. Now, if we get a Girardi here and a Callahan(4th round) there with a Dubinsky and Montoya, what a great future were going to have.. Guess what: Reese, Olver, Pyatt, Dupont, Korpikoski, Russell with Dubinsky, Callahan and Dawes with some veterans is going to make for something special for a long time...

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03-17-2007, 10:27 AM
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Agreed the future looks bright but where is the big gun? In a league with such superlative, young offensive talent (many in our conference), w/o such an overriding talent I fear we will eventually be a good to very good team, make the playoffs every year, have some good runs, but always fall short of the big prize. Do we have a 50 goal scorer or 40 goal scorer in the system...a 30 goal scorer? Not being a pessimist, just a realist. Drafting middle of the pack as we do, its hard to come up with a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Staal (Eric and Jordan). Then again, when the Rangers lost the arbitration for Lindros all those years ago, I thought we were doomed for the next decade, but a few years later we won the Cup. As I stated earlier, perhaps we build a young core and sign one of the above as a UFA in a half-dozen or so years when they become available.

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03-17-2007, 11:11 AM
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i think callahan has impressed me more than the others although girardi and dubinsky have shown they can play

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03-17-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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Agreed the future looks bright but where is the big gun? In a league with such superlative, young offensive talent (many in our conference), w/o such an overriding talent I fear we will eventually be a good to very good team, make the playoffs every year, have some good runs, but always fall short of the big prize. Do we have a 50 goal scorer or 40 goal scorer in the system...a 30 goal scorer? Not being a pessimist, just a realist. Drafting middle of the pack as we do, its hard to come up with a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Staal (Eric and Jordan). Then again, when the Rangers lost the arbitration for Lindros all those years ago, I thought we were doomed for the next decade, but a few years later we won the Cup. As I stated earlier, perhaps we build a young core and sign one of the above as a UFA in a half-dozen or so years when they become available.
Odds are the big gun will not be home grown. It's a little unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. That being said, this team finally looks like it's been built the right way...from the net out. We are stacked in Goal, and look like we will be very solid on D in the next year or two. We have tons of 3rd liners and even a few 2nd liners already in the organization. With the UFA age dropping each year that will work to our advantage to pick up that needed big gun you talk of within the next couple of seasons. We have some flexibility to either grab someone from free agency and/or trade our valuable assets (Montoya possibly) for that scoring punch. And while having the big guns is nice, if you are solid on the other end of the ice you don't necessarily have to have too many of them. I think this team will be pretty solid in 2008-2009...and that's really only a bit more than a season away.

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03-17-2007, 11:45 AM
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I will say that it certainly feels nice to have a little optimism for the future of this hockey club. Hopefully these guys continue to get a chance to show their stuff until the big boys return.

Perhaps we even make the playoffs and have a rejuvenated lineup to show for it.

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Old
03-17-2007, 11:50 AM
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We are looking good but our best days are ahead......besides Staal, Sauer, Sanguinetti, Anismov and others we have many "tradable" prospects that will net us bigger fish (ie. loser of the Montoya/Lundqvist battle)

I'm thinking the year Tavarez (sp) comes out we could offer up a nice package.

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