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Reorder the 1991 first round

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Old
03-22-2007, 02:32 PM
  #1
Jyrki21
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Reorder the 1991 first round

Had a thread like this over at Offthepost.net a while back for 1990, and it was quite interesting to see the different perspectives (Brodeur #1 and Jagr #2 were unanimous picks, for what it's worth).

With the benefit of hindsight, how would you have done the 1991 draft's first round? (The "Lindros Shuns Quebec" draft).

This is how it really turned out:

1 QUE Eric Lindros C
2 SJ Pat Falloon R
3 NJ (TOR) Scott Niedermayer D
4 NYI Scott Lachance D
5 WPG Aaron Ward D
6 PHA Peter Forsberg C
7 VAN Alek Stojanov R
8 MIN Richard Matvichuk D
9 HFD Patrick Poulin L
10 DET Martin Lapointe R
11 NJ Brian Rolston L
12 EDM Tyler Wright C
13 BUF Philippe Boucher D
14 WAS Pat Peake R
15 NYR Alexei Kovalev R
16 PGH Markus Naslund L
17 MTL Brent Bilodeau D
18 BOS Glen Murray R
19 CGY Niklas Sundblad R
20 EDM (LA) Martin Rucinsky L
21 WAS (STL) Trevor Halverson L
22 CHI Dean McAmmond L


Here is a framework to copy and paste if you like:

1 QUE
2 SJ
3 NJ (TOR)
4 NYI
5 WPG
6 PHA
7 VAN
8 MIN
9 HFD
10 DET
11 NJ
12 EDM
13 BUF
14 WAS
15 NYR
16 PGH
17 MTL
18 BOS
19 CGY
20 EDM (LA)
21 WAS (STL)
22 CHI

I suspect that at least a couple of MoDo Swedes will be moving up...

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Old
03-22-2007, 02:38 PM
  #2
arcticwinter
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what a player for toronto to give up.ouch.

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Old
03-22-2007, 02:45 PM
  #3
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1 QUE - Peter Forsberg
2 SJ - Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ (TOR) - Eric Lindross
4 NYI - Marcus Naslund
5 WPG - Alexei Kovalev
6 PHA - Ray Whitney
7 VAN - Martin Rucinsky
8 MIN - Glen Murray
9 HFD - Brian Rolston
10 DET - Ziggy Palffy
11 NJ - Sandis Ozolinsh
12 EDM - Michael Nylander
13 BUF - Alexi Zhitnik
14 WAS - Sean O'Donnell
15 NYR - Richard Matvichuk
16 PGH - Pat Falloon
17 MTL - Jozef Stumpel
18 BOS - Philippe Boucher
19 CGY - Aaron Ward
20 EDM (LA) - Steve Staios
21 WAS (STL) - Marty Lapointe
22 CHI - Yanic Perreault


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Old
03-22-2007, 02:50 PM
  #4
WVP
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Obviously Forsberg goes first. Taking Lindros out of the equation:

Forsberg
Neids
Naslund
Kovalev

Tough to say if you take Lindros second for his extremely productive years.

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Old
03-22-2007, 03:01 PM
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pitseleh
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I'm assuming these players have the exact same careers that they do now. For example, had Lindros not had injury troubles, I think he would have been #1.

1 QUE - Peter Forsberg
2 SJ - Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ (TOR) - Eric Lindros
4 NYI - Markus Naslund
5 WPG - Glen Murray
6 PHA - Alexei Kovalev
7 VAN - Brian Rolston
8 MIN - Philippe Boucher
9 HFD - Richard Matvichuk
10 DET - Aaron Ward
11 NJ - Martin Rucinsky
12 EDM - Martin Lapointe
13 BUF - Scott Lachance
14 WAS - Dean McAmmond
15 NYR - Pat Falloon
16 PGH - Tyler Wright
17 MTL - Pat Peake
18 BOS - Patrick Poulin

The last couple are pretty interchangeable.

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Old
03-22-2007, 03:05 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVpens View Post
Obviously Forsberg goes first. Taking Lindros out of the equation:

Forsberg
Neids
Naslund
Kovalev

Tough to say if you take Lindros second for his extremely productive years.
Well considering what they got for him... I think Quebec would still take LIndros

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Old
03-22-2007, 03:10 PM
  #7
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Hard for me to put Forsberg at #2 with his numbers, but I think Niedermayer has had a better career in terms of consistency and most importantly, games played.
Can you imagine if Quebec/Colorado had Niedermayer on their blueline as well as Foote?

1 QUE - Scott Niedermayer
2 SJ - Peter Forsberg
3 NJ (TOR) - Markus Naslund
4 NYI - Eric Lindros
5 WPG - Alexei Kovalev
6 PHA - Glen Murray
7 VAN - Brian Rolston
8 MIN - Martin Rucinsky
9 HFD - Philippe Boucher
10 DET - Aaron Ward
11 NJ - Richard Matvichuk
12 EDM - Martin Lapointe
13 BUF - Scott Lachance
14 WAS - Dean McAmmond
15 NYR - Pat Falloon
16 PGH - Tyler Wright
17 MTL - Patrick Poulin
18 BOS - Pat Peake

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Old
03-22-2007, 03:13 PM
  #8
bleedgreen
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1 QUE forsberg
2 SJ lindros
3 NJ (TOR) neidermayer
4 NYI naslund
5 WPG rolston
6 PHA kovalev
7 VAN murray
8 MIN matvichuk
9 HFD ward
10 DET boucher
11 NJ rucinski
12 EDM lapointe
13 BUF mcammond
14 WAS wright
15 NYR falloon
16 PGH lachance
17 MTL poulin
18 BOS lachance


last four dont really matter.

i almost put lindros no 1. at his best imo he was the better player, but it was only better than forsberg for a season or two, the rest of the time forsberg was better. i couldnt stand lindros either, so its hard for me to say it.

i put rolston higher than others as i think he was a more useful player overall. if you take away kovy's cup year, and murrays thorton days rolston is better, again imo. i question putting naslund as high as well, just as much a late bloomer as rolston - though his high end was about as high as it gets. rolston didnt get used enough in his early years.

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Old
03-22-2007, 04:39 PM
  #9
Jyrki21
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OK, here's my own:

1 QUE Peter Forsberg
2 SJ Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ (TOR) Markus Näslund
4 NYI Eric Lindros (the concussions do count)
5 WPG Glen Murray
6 PHA Brian Rolston
7 VAN Alexei Kovalev
8 MIN Philippe Boucher
9 HFD Richard Matvichuk
10 DET Martin Rucinsky
11 NJ Aaron Ward
12 EDM Scott Lachance
13 BUF Pat Falloon (he wasn't that bad, just lost confidence)
14 WAS Martin Lapointe
15 NYR Dean McAmmond
16 PGH Patrick Poulin
17 MTL Tyler Wright
18 BOS Alek Stojanov
19 CGY Pat Peake
20 EDM (LA) Trevor Halverson
21 WAS (STL) Niklas Sundblad
22 CHI Brent Bilodeau

The last few very principled, of course.

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Old
03-22-2007, 05:05 PM
  #10
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1. Peter Forsberg
2. Eric Lindros
3. Scott Neidermayer
4. Markus Naslund
5. Glen Murray
6. Brian Rolston
7. Philippe Boucher
8. Alex Kovalev
9. Martin Rucinsky
10. Martin Lapointe
11. Richard Matvichuk
12. Dean McAmmond
13. Aaron Ward
14. I'm tired

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Old
03-22-2007, 05:35 PM
  #11
Knight of the Realm
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ziggy palffy WAS the kings offense during his stay in LA(if this was his draft year then i'd put him at five or six)...i think the guy had tremendous ability and was seriously underrated

forsberg
neidermayer...probably should go ahead of forsberg(tough choice)

naslund
kovalev
palffy...about equal with kovalev

lindros
murray
rolston

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Old
03-22-2007, 05:49 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I'm assuming these players have the exact same careers that they do now. For example, had Lindros not had injury troubles, I think he would have been #1.

1 QUE - Peter Forsberg
2 SJ - Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ (TOR) - Eric Lindros
4 NYI - Markus Naslund
5 WPG - Glen Murray
6 PHA - Alexei Kovalev
7 VAN - Brian Rolston
8 MIN - Philippe Boucher
9 HFD - Richard Matvichuk
10 DET - Aaron Ward
11 NJ - Martin Rucinsky
12 EDM - Martin Lapointe
13 BUF - Scott Lachance
14 WAS - Dean McAmmond
15 NYR - Pat Falloon
16 PGH - Tyler Wright
17 MTL - Pat Peake
18 BOS - Patrick Poulin

The last couple are pretty interchangeable.
pretty good order here. take murray out and put him just behind boucher but thats about it

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Old
03-22-2007, 06:55 PM
  #13
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i definetly still would have picked lindros first overall. just for the sheer fact of that quebec got a huge return from the trade. i mean why would you now select forsberg first overall when you could trade for him and get Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, 2 firsts and cash on top of that?


Last edited by 40oz: 03-22-2007 at 06:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
03-22-2007, 09:29 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damoose View Post
i definetly still would have picked lindros first overall. just for the sheer fact of that quebec got a huge return from the trade. i mean why would you now select forsberg first overall when you could trade for him and get Ron Hextall, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, 2 firsts and cash on top of that?
I agree. In my opinion Peter Forsberg had been the best player in the world for at least 5 years before the lockout. I wonder if Eric Lindros never suffered his injuries if he would have been just as great as Forsberg pre-lockout. Remember how dominant the guy was in the mid 1990s?

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Old
03-22-2007, 10:16 PM
  #15
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1 QUE: Scott Niedermeyer
Top 3 defensemen in the game today. There are arguably some forwards that could be taken above but they have injury problems
2 SJ: Peter Forsberg
Probably the best Swedish hockey player ever, would've went higher if not for injuries.
3 NJ (TOR): Eric Lindros
It's tough to put him here but despite his injuries he has panned out very well. In his years with Philly he was very dominant.
4 NYI: Markus Naslund
Practically interchangable with Palffy, he didn't become dominant until later on but has proven to be a franchise player.
5 WPG: Ziggy Palffy
A tough decision, but he was dominant in virtually every year of his sadly shortened career.
6 PHI: Ray Whitney
The late-blooming forward falls to here. He started his career pretty well, getting a little over 40 points for his first few seasons. He then got injured, but has since taken off. In recent years he has become a very solid first line forward. Whitney will likely get 100 points this year.
7 VAN:Glen Murray
The draft class takes a big drop from here in my opinion, but the best of the middle needs to be Murray. A reasonably late bloomer, Murray has become quite a force for the Bruins. If redoing the draft, I'd draft him here and see if I can get that skill out of him earlier in his carerr.
8 MIN: Alexei Zhitnik
[I]Questionable pick, I know, but Zhitnik has long been a solid #2 defensemen who is great defensively and has a very hard slap shot. His point production has slowed down in recent years but his defensive play remains.[I]
9 HFD:Brian Rolston
Amazing arsenal of shots. Truly came to form recently, but has gotten more and more solid throughout his career
10 DET:Michael Nylander
Has been very solid throughout his career despite being with some pretty horrid Chicago teams.
11 NJ: Mariusz Czerkawski
I know, another surprise, but this Pole had a pretty impressive career on some of the worst teams in NHL history (consequently, these are various Islander teams throughout the 90s). A slow skater, his shot got him by for many years as a New York Islander. On another team with some decent players, Czerkawski might have been a real force in the NHL
12 EDM: Alexei Kovalev
I realize many will be surprised at how far he's dropped, but the fact of the matter is is that Kovalev hasn't done much without Jagr at the NHL level. He is much more of a product of Jagr/Lemieux, and as great as a compliment as he was to them, we can now certainly tell that he was the weak link of the line.
13 BUF: Richard Matvichuk
Very solid defensemen for the devils throughout his career.
14 WAS: Jozef Stumpel
Should've went higher, but I don't feel like going back and editting
15 NYR: Steve Staios
Solid 3rd defenseman EDM. Has both offensive and defensive skills.
16 PGH:Chris Osgood
Solid goalie. Pushed to the back of the crowd during much of his career, he has proven to be a great backup and starter for many of his teams including the Red Wings and the Islander
17 MTL:Mike Knuble
A decently skilled, very physical forward. Played key roles in many of Philly's dominating teams throughout the 90s.
18 BOS: Martin Rucinsky
Very solid winger throughout career.
19 CGY: Sandis Ozolinsh
The very offensive defensemen has fallen on tough times, but he is still one of the best puck movers of the 90s.
20 EDM (LA): Philippe Boucher
Such a late bloomer that it is very doubtful that any team would've kept him long enough. That said, I would take a gamble on him at the 20th pick.
21 WAS (STL): Martin Lapointe
Not much to say here. Solid "6.5" defensive forward who played a pretty big part in the dominance of the Red Wings throughout the 90s and 2000s.
22 CHI: Steve Konowalchuk
Solid leader and defensive forward.


I know, many surprises. I used the entire draft and not just the first round. I also went on my percieved potential of certain players.

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Old
03-22-2007, 10:21 PM
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I didn't see reorder, I thought it was redo :.

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Old
03-22-2007, 10:33 PM
  #17
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Cool idea for a thread. I'll bite.

1 QUE: C Peter Forsberg
2 SJ: D Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ (TOR): C Eric Lindros (Incredibly enough, Toronto was in last for much of the first couple months of the season, and it appeared Lindros might be the return for Tom Kurvers)
4 NYI: LW Markus Naslund
-Now that the gimmies are out of the way...
5 WPG: RW Alex Kovalev
6 PHA: W Brian Rolston
7 VAN: RW Glen Murray
8 MIN: D Phillipe Boucher
9 HFD: RW Martin Lapointe
10 DET: D Richard Matvichuk
11 NJ: LW Martin Rucinsky
12 EDM: D Aaron Ward
13 BUF: LW Dean McAmmond
14 WAS: LW Tyler Wright
15 NYR: D Scott Lachance
16 PGH: RW Pat Falloon
17 MTL: LW Patrick Poulin
18 BOS: RW Pat Peake
19 CGY: RW Alex Stojanov
20 EDM (LA): Halvorson
21 WAS (STL): Sunblad
22 CHI: Bilodeau

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Old
03-22-2007, 10:39 PM
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If the concussions don't count Lindros would be 1st on my list

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Old
03-22-2007, 11:24 PM
  #19
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Stvens and Lindros could've been on the same team! Oh No!

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Old
03-23-2007, 12:00 AM
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I love how Falloon is playing on some minor Manitoba league. That rules.

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Old
03-23-2007, 12:10 AM
  #21
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If I'm Quebec I'd still take Lindross considering Philly was going to give me half their damn team for him.

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Old
03-23-2007, 12:29 AM
  #22
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1 QUE - Peter Forsberg
2 SJ - Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ - Eric Lindros
4 NYI - Markus Naslund
5 WPG - Zigmund Palffy
6 PHA - Glen Murray
7 VAN - Alexei Kovalev
8 MIN - Brian Rolston
9 HFD - Martin Rucinsky
10 DET - Phillipe Boucher
11 NJ - Aaron Ward
12 EDM - Richard Matvichuk
13 BUF - Dean McAmmond
14 WAS - Martin Lapointe
15 NYR - Scott Lachance
16 PGH - Pat Falloon
17 MTL - Tyler Wright
18 BOS - Alek Stojanov
19 CGY - Trevor Halverson
20 EDM - Brent Bilodeau
21 WAS - Patrick Poulin
22 CHI - Niklas Sundblad

- Lindros is STILL a top 3 player in that draft. People forget that before he was pudding head, that he was the most dominating force in the game, and arguably the most dominant force the game had seen since Gretzky was scoring 70-90 goals and 200 points a year.

- Forsberg is easily the best player to come out of that draft, the guy would be a perennial 50 goal guy if he were to shoot more, and his points per game ratio is in the top 10 of all time.

- Niedermayer is a very close 2nd, as he is a perennial Norris contender, and for years was probably the most underrated defenseman in the league.

- Markus Naslund... Alek Stojanov who?!?

- Kovalev, despite being somewhat of a bust for all the hype he had, moves up to the top 10.

- Rolston, Rucinsky, and Boucher all carved out decent careers, and would be top 10.

- Glen Murray moves up big time, perennial 25-40 goal guy, one of the better power wingers in the league.

- Rangers end up helping out the defense with a decent defensive defenseman - tongue twister, anyone? - in drafting Scott Lachance. Would have been a solid pickup, as he was a solid #3-#4 in the league for years.

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Old
03-23-2007, 01:04 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
1 QUE - Peter Forsberg
2 SJ - Scott Niedermayer
3 NJ - Eric Lindros
4 NYI - Markus Naslund
5 WPG - Zigmund Palffy
6 PHA - Glen Murray
7 VAN - Alexei Kovalev
8 MIN - Brian Rolston
9 HFD - Martin Rucinsky
10 DET - Phillipe Boucher
11 NJ - Aaron Ward
12 EDM - Richard Matvichuk
13 BUF - Dean McAmmond
14 WAS - Martin Lapointe
15 NYR - Scott Lachance
16 PGH - Pat Falloon
17 MTL - Tyler Wright
18 BOS - Alek Stojanov
19 CGY - Trevor Halverson
20 EDM - Brent Bilodeau
21 WAS - Patrick Poulin
22 CHI - Niklas Sundblad

- Lindros is STILL a top 3 player in that draft. People forget that before he was pudding head, that he was the most dominating force in the game, and arguably the most dominant force the game had seen since Gretzky was scoring 70-90 goals and 200 points a year.

- Forsberg is easily the best player to come out of that draft, the guy would be a perennial 50 goal guy if he were to shoot more, and his points per game ratio is in the top 10 of all time.

- Niedermayer is a very close 2nd, as he is a perennial Norris contender, and for years was probably the most underrated defenseman in the league.

- Markus Naslund... Alek Stojanov who?!?

- Kovalev, despite being somewhat of a bust for all the hype he had, moves up to the top 10.

- Rolston, Rucinsky, and Boucher all carved out decent careers, and would be top 10.

- Glen Murray moves up big time, perennial 25-40 goal guy, one of the better power wingers in the league.

- Rangers end up helping out the defense with a decent defensive defenseman - tongue twister, anyone? - in drafting Scott Lachance. Would have been a solid pickup, as he was a solid #3-#4 in the league for years.
I wish the Sharks would of picked Forsberg, Neids, Kovlalev...but they drafted Faloon....Feel bad for the Isles too they drafted Scott Lachance

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Old
03-23-2007, 01:08 AM
  #24
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A young Lindros without head problems .... goes #1 everytime

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Old
03-23-2007, 01:31 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoo View Post
A young Lindros without head problems .... goes #1 everytime
his cockiness arrogance will get the best of him. Not wanting to go to a certian team, picking the team he wants, its Karma. What goes around comes around.

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