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McKeen's Top 30 for March

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Old
03-23-2007, 01:27 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Matt MacInnis View Post
As someone who has covered the BCHL a bit this year, I'm curious as to where you have the non-Turris guys like Pierro-Zabotel, Winnett, Nash and (if you guys even have him ranked) Benn.

Nash is the player who has been attracting the scouts of late - he's really been rising on the draft charts, and there are rumours among the scouting ranks that the Oilers are seriously considering grabbing him with one of their three first round picks.

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03-23-2007, 01:43 PM
  #27
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Petrecki seems to be stuck in the 16-20 range. I'm wondering why this is, personally I think he is right up there with Alzner for being the best defenseman in the draft and his offensive game finally seems to be showing. Is the reason he's been stagnant while others are rising above him the level of competition he's up against compared to higher ranked players in the Major Junior or NCAA leagues?
The reason he remains stagnant is because we keep getting negative reports from the pro scouts.

In fact, just before noon I had a lengthy conversation with an eastern conference's director of player personnel (head scout).

I asked him if he'd seen Petrecki. He told me that he was going to, but his staff told him not to bother - he wouldn't want him in the first round, the second round, the third round, any round.

This is not the first scout to tell me that. I had a western conference scout who goes all over the world scouting tell me a few weeks back that the guys on his team's staff that have scouted Petrecki said the same thing to him - "Don't bother going to scout Petrecki; you don't want him." And this was a team that at the time didn't have a pick in the draft until the third round.

I'm telling you guys...Petrecki is this year's Vlad Evseev, Patrick O'Sullivan, Wes O'Neill and Nigel Williams rolled into one. From what I'm hearing I could see this guy not being selected until after the 50th pick. No guarantee or anything, just a feeling I'm getting.

Hockey sense is such an important component of today's NHL, and if there are major issues with it, it doesn't matter if you skate like Bobby Orr in Zdeno Chara's body.

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03-23-2007, 01:44 PM
  #28
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turnbuckle, Could you tell me where do you have Karamnov on your list ?

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03-23-2007, 01:54 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
The reason he remains stagnant is because we keep getting negative reports from the pro scouts.

In fact, just before noon I had a lengthy conversation with an eastern conference's director of player personnel (head scout).

I asked him if he'd seen Petrecki. He told me that he was going to, but his staff told him not to bother - he wouldn't want him in the first round, the second round, the third round, any round.

This is not the first scout to tell me that. I had a western conference scout who goes all over the world scouting tell me a few weeks back that the guys on his team's staff that have scouted Petrecki said the same thing to him - "Don't bother going to scout Petrecki; you don't want him." And this was a team that at the time didn't have a pick in the draft until the third round.

I'm telling you guys...Petrecki is this year's Vlad Evseev, Patrick O'Sullivan, Wes O'Neill and Nigel Williams rolled into one. From what I'm hearing I could see this guy not being selected until after the 50th pick. No guarantee or anything, just a feeling I'm getting.

Hockey sense is such an important component of today's NHL, and if there are major issues with it, it doesn't matter if you skate like Bobby Orr in Zdeno Chara's body.
What, is Petrecki a moron or something?

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03-23-2007, 02:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Let's try this again:


15. Sweatt 15
16. Ross 27
17. Hamill 25
18. Petrecki 18
19. J. Smith 20


The numbers on the right are where they were ranked last month

All criticisms will be welcomed (and ignored). Flame away. We will try to answer any questions you may have.
I hope the Canadiens draft Hamill. He has good possibilities. Size is not as important as it used to be and he has good all-round playmaker and shooter skills.

The only thing I wonder is if his stats are primarily due to playing with Peter Mueller (if he's on the same line...)

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03-23-2007, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Nash is the player who has been attracting the scouts of late - he's really been rising on the draft charts, and there are rumours among the scouting ranks that the Oilers are seriously considering grabbing him with one of their three first round picks.
Hopefully not with one of their first 2 picks.

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03-23-2007, 02:52 PM
  #32
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turnbuckle can you tell us who mckeen's thinks is the sleeper of this draft
Also, can I know what your scouts say about Brett MacLean (can he be productive without tavares?) Finally what happened to Gillies and Sonne you guys had them once (last year or so) listed in the top 5.

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03-23-2007, 02:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarteRichards View Post
What, is Petrecki a moron or something?
No he's not and he doesn't have God-awful hockey sense, either, which is why I'm constantly surprised by the talk coming from people who say his hockey sense is flat out bad. He's a much, MUCH smarter player than a guy like Nigel Williams and he's twice as talented. I don't understand the hate on him.

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03-23-2007, 02:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CarteRichards View Post
What, is Petrecki a moron or something?
He doesn't have what one would call elite hockey sense. Pretty sure that doesn't make him a moron though.

Hockey sense is vitally important at the NHL level, and if it's thought to be seriously lacking, you are not going to be considered an elite prospect.

Hey - maybe some teams are completely split on this; I haven't polled them all - perhaps there are teams out there that think Petrecki makes Lidstrom look like Shawn Belle. I just keep hearing that such and such team has zero interest in Petrecki in the first, or such and such team wouldn't pick him in the top two rounds....etc. Often where there's smoke, there is fire.

A couple years back I was hearing the same things about Wes O'Neill from the scouting fraternity. O'Neill was in the first round of most draft lists, but when I asked scouts if they were considering him with their first pick they usually laughed. I started to get the sense that Mr. O'Neill not only wasn't going to be a first rounder, but he may not go in the second either.

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03-23-2007, 03:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
No he's not and he doesn't have God-awful hockey sense, either, which is why I'm constantly surprised by the talk coming from people who say his hockey sense is flat out bad. He's a much, MUCH smarter player than a guy like Nigel Williams and he's twice as talented. I don't understand the hate on him.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if that many scouts have gotten a chance to get a good look at Petrecki (especially repeated looks). The USHL appears to be quite the pariah.

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03-23-2007, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
He doesn't have what one would call elite hockey sense. Pretty sure that doesn't make him a moron though.

Hockey sense is vitally important at the NHL level, and if it's thought to be seriously lacking, you are not going to be considered an elite prospect.

Hey - maybe some teams are completely split on this; I haven't polled them all - perhaps there are teams out there that think Petrecki makes Lidstrom look like Shawn Belle. I just keep hearing that such and such team has zero interest in Petrecki in the first, or such and such team wouldn't pick him in the top two rounds....etc. Often where there's smoke, there is fire.
The thing is, while he doesn't have ELITE hockey sense (and frankly, how many guys do?), it isn't something that's a hue problem for him to overcome. He isn't a lazy player out there, he tries hard every night, etc. He's just a kid. He makes the occasional dumb move but again, he's just a kid! He's not even at the college level yet. He's not notoriously bad at reading the play like a guy like Williams was and he's certainly not as dumb as Belle is (I think a rock is smarter than Shawn Belle). He's just average in terms of hockey sense.

His skills, which are top 5 in the draft EASILY, make up for that in my opinion. And they make up for it fairly well.

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03-23-2007, 03:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Frankly, I'd be surprised if that many scouts have gotten a chance to get a good look at Petrecki (especially repeated looks). The USHL appears to be quite the pariah.
I almost don't believe the fact that turnbuckle says he heard a scout tell him he wouldn't bother scouting one of the most talented (in raw skills) kids to ever come out of the USHL.

It's just almost so stupid that it can't be believed.

I mean, I don't think turnbuckle is making **** up, but I just can't imagine a scout actually said that and that they already saw him play.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the draft to come around.

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03-23-2007, 03:07 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by shortcat1 View Post
I hope the Canadiens draft Hamill. He has good possibilities. Size is not as important as it used to be and he has good all-round playmaker and shooter skills.

The only thing I wonder is if his stats are primarily due to playing with Peter Mueller (if he's on the same line...)
Hamill is one player that I admit I had been misreading a bit.
Leading the WHL in scoring in your draft season is no small feat, and even more impressive when one considers that he played second-line minutes most of the season.

I have had problems with his "perimeter play", but he's not as shy as he was earlier in the season, and his skills are top notch for this draft. As one scout said "If you don't take him with your top ten pick, you better be taking a helluva player (instead)."

We moved him from 25th to 17th on this months' list, but unless he craps the bed in the playoffs there's a good chance we'll be moving him up even more next list. We will certainly be keeping a close eye on him in the playoffs tho.

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03-23-2007, 03:12 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Frankly, I'd be surprised if that many scouts have gotten a chance to get a good look at Petrecki (especially repeated looks). The USHL appears to be quite the pariah.
The USHL is scouted quite a bit actually - there are first and second round prospects...why wouldn't it be? NHL teams on a whole will be seeing Petrecki a lot more than they'll be seeing a Lars Eller or Dennis Reul for instance.

The director of player personnel I spoke to this afternoon just spent the past couple of weeks scouting the USHL. Likes Cohen and Pacioretty quite a bit.

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03-23-2007, 03:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
The USHL is scouted quite a bit actually - there are first and second round prospects...why wouldn't it be? NHL teams on a whole will be seeing Petrecki a lot more than they'll be seeing a Lars Eller or Dennis Reul for instance.

The director of player personnel I spoke to this afternoon just spent the past couple of weeks scouting the USHL. Likes Cohen and Pacioretty quite a bit.
So the guy takes Colby freakin' Cohen over Petrecki? What the hell does he see in Cohen more than Petrecki?!

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03-23-2007, 03:30 PM
  #41
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turnbuckle, Could you tell me where do you have Karamnov on your list ?

Karamnov dropped quite a bit this month., He was very disappointing at the 5 Nations Cup, as were most of the Russkies. We have him ranked in the fourth round.

Unless things turn around at the Under 18's, it doesn't look like there will be many Russians (playing in Russia) taken in the top three rounds, perhaps only three - Korostin, Cherpy and Mayorov.

Who is getting hype in Russia beside those guys?

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03-23-2007, 03:31 PM
  #42
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We put Aliu back to where he was before the Top Prospects game - out of the top two rounds. As Iain said to me "I knew I never should have raised him."

Players with the character issues of Aliu have to be pretty special to crack the top 50. We seriously can't see a team taking a chance on him until the third round now, but all it takes is one dissenting team that thinks they can groom him.

Veilleux is in the middle of the second. We are not fans of his grit/determination, or lack thereof. I personally wouldn't look at him befero the 50th pick - i don't think he's the type of guy that will do you any good in a tight playoff match.

Sexsmith doesn't have a lot of fans in the scouting world that i'm aware of. I think most scouts believe he's the product of a solid system moreso than he's a great goalie. We have him as the third ranked WHL goalie behind Mucha, and Rowat. we have liked what we've seen from Andrew Loverock of late, and actually ranked him ahead of Cann.

I really like Cann, but the pro scouting word on him is that they wonder if his size/style will translate well to the pro game. Scouts are worried about his height and being beat over the shoulders at the NHL level.
THank You Very much, that's what I call an helpfull review. About Cann size and style do you think the same could be said about Bernier (Jonathan) last year?

And might I add one last one for the road What'S your take on David Stich (who's probably more of a 3rd rounder, but the little I've seen from him he seems to have a very sound basic Skillset

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03-23-2007, 03:51 PM
  #43
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turnbuckle can you tell us who mckeen's thinks is the sleeper of this draft
Also, can I know what your scouts say about Brett MacLean (can he be productive without tavares?) Finally what happened to Gillies and Sonne you guys had them once (last year or so) listed in the top 5.

McKeen's had Soone in it's top 5? Certainly not during this season. He may have been highly touted after leading Canada at last summer's Under 18 tourney in scoring. He may have even led the tourney in scoring, which is puzzling to those of us who watched him in the WHL this season.

Sonne lacks NHL upside, especially in the skating department. A really hard worker with lots of heart, but that alone won't get you in the NHL.

i like MacLean quite a bit. Folks have concerns with his skating; he needs to keep his feet moving, but I like him in the 20 range. He has great hands and is a superb passer; plus he has good size, and knows how to shield the puck. I also like his shot. I see him in the Latendresse mold.

As for Gillies...see Petrecki.

A good sleeper would be Chris Didomenico. Highly talented center stuck on a poor team. a complete player with scoring skills. Needs to work on his skating and needs to gain 20 pounds of muscle; like pretty much every other prospect.

If he drops until the fourth round (where many have him projected) we think some team will be getting a steal.

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03-23-2007, 03:55 PM
  #44
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THank You Very much, that's what I call an helpfull review. About Cann size and style do you think the same could be said about Bernier (Jonathan) last year?

And might I add one last one for the road What'S your take on David Stich (who's probably more of a 3rd rounder, but the little I've seen from him he seems to have a very sound basic Skillset
I don't like Stich much. a good defensive defenceman in junior...that's all I see. I think most have him overrated. He plays within himself and all that, but there is not much upside in his game. May be a sixth defenceman some day, nothing exciting. He blocks shots well and does some good things ion his own zone, but that's about it.

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03-23-2007, 03:57 PM
  #45
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Who is getting hype in Russia beside those guys?
Thanks. I don't know. It looks like there is huge difference between those 3 and others. Zhelobnyuk has some hype but it is result of mix of his age, situaion with goalies in Dynamo and playing for popular team from Moscow, in my opinion.
At the start of the season I remember Averin was mentioned a lot with Cherepanov but they parted their ways later as you can see.

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03-23-2007, 03:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by OilerOlli View Post
Hopefully not with one of their first 2 picks.
i hear ya. I'm pretty sure it would be their third pick - I don't think they have to worry about someone drafting him ahead of them.

Mind you they picked Niinimaki 15th overall a few years back so you never know.

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03-23-2007, 04:08 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
i hear ya. I'm pretty sure it would be their third pick - I don't think they have to worry about someone drafting him ahead of them.

Mind you they picked Niinimaki 15th overall a few years back so you never know.
Please try not to remind us. I'm still having Bustimaki nightmares and hope that the Oil don't go for another reach this time around. I suspect though, that with three first rounders this year they will probably go off the board on one.

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03-23-2007, 04:09 PM
  #48
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Thanks. I don't know. It looks like there is huge difference between those 3 and others. Zhelobnyuk has some hype but it is result of mix of his age, situaion with goalies in Dynamo and playing for popular team from Moscow, in my opinion.
At the start of the season I remember Averin was mentioned a lot with Cherepanov but they parted their ways later as you can see.
One guy I forgot to mention is Goncharov. We like him as a late second rounder - sorry about that.

We have Zhelobynuk and Averin ranked in the sixth round. Averin has dropped about two rounds in the rankings over the past couple of months.

We like Lukyanchikov and Dubinin in the fourth or fifth round at this point. Both have some intriguing qualities if they can put it all together. Luky is strong as an ox...Dubinin is 6-6.

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03-23-2007, 04:14 PM
  #49
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i hear ya. I'm pretty sure it would be their third pick - I don't think they have to worry about someone drafting him ahead of them.

Mind you they picked Niinimaki 15th overall a few years back so you never know.
Yes, I remember that well.
But Niinimäki is only one example. I also remember they drafting Dubnyk with their 14th overall (with Meszaros, Radulov still available) where he would had been still around at pick #25 easily.
I don't know this Riley Nash at all tho.
Today was the first time I heard his name. I was reading that article here about him, and his coach is obviously a big fan of him and thinks he could be a better Zajac, and seems to be sure that he will be picked in the first round.
So, I wouldn't midn Lowe picking him with the Anaheim pick. But with our Isles pick (probably 11-16) there should be some other calibres still available.
But who knows what picks we will have finally at draft day...

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03-23-2007, 04:15 PM
  #50
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I'm hoping Nash or Tyrell slips to the Rangers pick in the 1st round unless guys like Petrecki or Sweatt still are around.

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