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Pitkanen...hypothetical or reality?

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Old
03-23-2007, 10:47 PM
  #1
Promethian 3
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Pitkanen...hypothetical or reality?

In looking at the Flyer's defensive dollar commitments for next year, and the fact that they are reportedly going to pursue Timonnen heavily in the offseason, could Pitkanen, who is an RFA, be expendable to them?

I realise this topic on this particular player has been brought up ad nauseum on these boards, but in examining our options for next year on D, I think he could be the answer. Yes, he could also be the answer for 29 other teams, so with that in mind, what could the Oil possibly offer the Flyers to pry him out of Philly?

The Flyers seem to be short on experienced forwards, but certainly have a bright future there with the likes of Carter, Richards, Upshall, and even Umberger. Could a Pisani or Horcoff help them?

I'm sure a pick, if not several, would also be added along with a prospect or two.

Anyway, what do YOU think the Flyers would demand from the Oilers for Joni Pitkanen? Feel free NOT to reply with comments such as "never going to happen".

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Old
03-23-2007, 11:33 PM
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Oilers have to address the gap on D

the kids can not do it all and they need someone who can step it up

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03-23-2007, 11:53 PM
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I actually think Lowe has decided to make an RFA offer this summer and I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkanen is the guy he has targeted.

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03-23-2007, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil View Post
I actually think Lowe has decided to make an RFA offer this summer and I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkanen is the guy he has targeted.
Doubt its an Offer sheet though, but i agree, it'll be an RFA, and a UFA D-man we get. For Pitkanen, we're gonna have to part with an offensive prospect and a few (high) picks, and a roster player or two. But i doubt we get him, i don't think they give him up, no way in hell, they got a good young D:

Pitkanen-Coburn
Parent-Kukkonen

Thats a damn good Top 4 if i see one. Lowe also mentioned he will target teams that are 'cash strapped', Nashville maybe??

Lowe is really dropping bombs, its gonna be hard to back them up with actions...

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03-23-2007, 11:59 PM
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if the flyers are after Timonen it would only be so he can pair up with pitkanen. Hypothetically speaking... if u were the GM of PHI... why the heck would u trade a young franchise guy when rebuilding?

oilers first + Smid + Nillson might get it done though.

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03-24-2007, 12:00 AM
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They would want Hemsky.

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03-24-2007, 12:01 AM
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This is being brought up way too often.

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03-24-2007, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Doubt its an Offer sheet though, but i agree, it'll be an RFA, and a UFA D-man we get. For Pitkanen, we're gonna have to part with an offensive prospect and a few (high) picks, and a roster player or two. But i doubt we get him, i don't think they give him up, no way in hell, they got a good young D:

Pitkanen-Coburn
Parent-Kukkonen

Thats a damn good Top 4 if i see one. Lowe also mentioned he will target teams that are 'cash strapped', Nashville maybe??

Lowe is really dropping bombs, its gonna be hard to back them up with actions...
You make an offer on Pitkanen that forces the Flyers to match taking them out of the market for Timonen or another UFA.

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03-24-2007, 12:15 AM
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As a huge Flyers fan. There is no possibility Pitkanen is going anywhere.

The Flyers are and have been in obvious rebuilding mode - why would they ship Pitkanen anywhere? They're in a more a rebuilding mode than the Oilers are, and have done a better job during the trade deadline to make sure of that.

Why throw it all away to the Oilers?

Won't happen.

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Old
03-24-2007, 12:20 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil View Post
You make an offer on Pitkanen that forces the Flyers to match taking them out of the market for Timonen or another UFA.
The Flyers have 25 million dollars in cap space. How much are you going to offer Pitkanen to keep the Flyers out of UFA bidding?

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03-24-2007, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoil View Post
You make an offer on Pitkanen that forces the Flyers to match taking them out of the market for Timonen or another UFA.
The only way that happens if you offer Joni upwards of $6 million and give up four firsts because the Flyers will have plenty of room to sign the guys they are targeting.

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03-24-2007, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by theoil View Post
I actually think Lowe has decided to make an RFA offer this summer and I wouldn't be surprised if Pitkanen is the guy he has targeted.
This is a really bad year to do that IMO. There really aren't any RFAs out there worth chasing after, particularly not any that are on teams that can't spend cash. Last year was the best opportunity since truly elite players like Bergeron and Spezza were on the docket. Taking the Flyers out of the hunt for a UFA seems remarkably silly. They're going to have nearly $25MM in cap space to spend this year and I think there's a very good chance that they use all of it. They could sign the best UFA dman, two of the best UFA forwards and still have room to match pretty much any remotely reasonable Pitkanen offer sheet.

However, since most RFA signings and arbitration fall after the UFA period, if there's a chance to get Pitkanen with an offer sheet, it will be after the first week in July when Philadelphia empties their clip. Kind of like what Clarke did with Kesler - wait until they spend their way into trouble and then make your move. That's probably the only way to get the mid-range guys.

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Old
03-24-2007, 01:33 PM
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Never say never.

If the Flyers dealt Pitkanen to us, signed Briere/Gomez/Drury and then added Timonen on the blueline, their roster could start to look like so ...

Gagne Briere Lupul
Torres Carter Upshall


Timonen/Gauthier/Greene/Coburn/Hatcher/Parent

Biron

In net .... that's not a bad team. They have a lot of cap space, but also a lot of holes upfront to fill, and reportedly want Timonen badly to eventually pair with his brother who they have in the system.

If we did get Pitkanen, I would sign him long term now, like 5-6 years for $5 million per. I doubt we would put out an offer sheet for Pitkanen, but wouldn't be shocked if some other team did.


Last edited by Soundwave: 03-24-2007 at 01:39 PM.
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Old
03-24-2007, 03:27 PM
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That's a lot of ifs.

It won't happen.

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Old
03-24-2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Never say never.

If the Flyers dealt Pitkanen to us, signed Briere/Gomez/Drury and then added Timonen on the blueline, their roster could start to look like so ...

Gagne Briere Lupul
Torres Carter Upshall


Timonen/Gauthier/Greene/Coburn/Hatcher/Parent

Biron

In net .... that's not a bad team. They have a lot of cap space, but also a lot of holes upfront to fill, and reportedly want Timonen badly to eventually pair with his brother who they have in the system.

If we did get Pitkanen, I would sign him long term now, like 5-6 years for $5 million per. I doubt we would put out an offer sheet for Pitkanen, but wouldn't be shocked if some other team did.
Yeah, but their situation is not as dire as you make it out to be. The Flyers have Mike Knuble to play on the first line with Gagne. They have can plug Umberger or Giroux on the second line or even sign someone. They have no use for Greene because they have enough depth as it is on the blueline with Pitkanen, Picard, Coburn, Kukkonen, Hatcher, Gauthier, Parent, and they may sign Timonen.

There is absolutely no need to trade Pitkanen. If they were to trade him, it would probably be for someone like Lecavalier or Heatley if they were available.

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Old
03-24-2007, 04:30 PM
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The way Soundwave just put it is the way it could happen. From the Philly managment side of things, they want to contend next season. So they may end up thinking(if they were to deal him)why pay this kid 3 mil a year for the next 3 seasons when he's still really developing? We could save the 3 mil for another UFA, and deal Pitkanen for some good prospects. That way we are still set for the future, and we're stronger right now too.

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Old
03-24-2007, 05:09 PM
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Lowe has a massive man crush on Joni Pitkanen. If he's at all available
he will be an Oiler. Whether or not he is available is another thing.
I think that entirely depends on what Philly does in the offseason.

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03-24-2007, 05:42 PM
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Yeah, but their situation is not as dire as you make it out to be. The Flyers have Mike Knuble to play on the first line with Gagne. They have can plug Umberger or Giroux on the second line or even sign someone. They have no use for Greene because they have enough depth as it is on the blueline with Pitkanen, Picard, Coburn, Kukkonen, Hatcher, Gauthier, Parent, and they may sign Timonen.

There is absolutely no need to trade Pitkanen. If they were to trade him, it would probably be for someone like Lecavalier or Heatley if they were available.
The thing about Pitkanen, is I'm not 100% sure he's the superstud player that some on these boards think he is.

Go on the Flyers board and plenty of people complain about his Niinima-esque defensive gaffes. He also has a tendancy to get injured (two straight years he's missed time because of an abdomen injury ... is this something that's going to reoccur all the time?) and on top of that he's apparently a very quiet/kinda awkward locker room guy. Flyes GM Holmgren has stopped short of calling him an enigma outright, but says he is definitely a work in progress.

He's more attractive to us because our blueline is so raw, sure. But I wouldn't say he's a surefire second coming of Chris Pronger either. Who's also to say that Lupul wouldn't become a 40 goal scorer next to Briere + Gagne? That's a big step up from Sykora + Petersen + Mac T's offensive system of death. Torres also could rebound and have a great season, and is also can be a physical force.

Pitkanen would not get you Lecavalier or Heatly in a trade. You'd have to include Richards or Carter or other significant players for that to happen.


Last edited by Soundwave: 03-24-2007 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
03-24-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The thing about Pitkanen, is I'm not 100% sure he's the superstud player that some on these boards think he is.

Go on the Flyers board and plenty of people complain about his Niinima-esque defensive gaffes. He also has a tendancy to get injured (two straight years he's missed time because of an abdomen injury ... is this something that's going to reoccur all the time?) and on top of that he's apparently a very quiet/kinda awkward locker room guy. Flyes GM Holmgren has stopped short of calling him an enigma outright, but says he is definitely a work in progress.

He's more attractive to us because our blueline is so raw, sure. But I wouldn't say he's a surefire second coming of Chris Pronger either. Who's also to say that Lupul wouldn't become a 40 goal scorer next to Briere + Gagne? That's a big step up from Sykora + Petersen + Mac T's offensive system of death. Torres also could rebound and have a great season, and is also can be a physical force.

Pitkanen would not get you Lecavalier or Heatly in a trade. You'd have to include Richards or Carter or other significant players for that to happen.
I'm an Oilers & Flyers fan from Philadelphia so I'm pretty aware of all the issues surrounding Joni.

My point is the Flyers have no reason to give up on him now. He was developing nicely until this season. Sure, it is a horrible season for him, but they aren't going to hold it against him when it's the worst season in Flyers history. Everyone was bad.

The Flyers are by far the worst team in the league. A player like Joni is worth a ton to a team in their position. At this point in time, I could only imagine the Flyers trading Pitkanen if it fills a glaring need or brings in an elite player. That's why I used Lecavalier or Heatley as an example. I'm not trying to sell Lupul or Torres short because I like these guys myself. It's just that they don't fill any glaring needs the Flyers have.

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03-24-2007, 08:41 PM
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I'm just bringing a little balance to the discussion, because on these boards Pitkanen is talked up like a hockey god ... on Philly's boards they routinely take a crap on him.

I think their GM even said in the summer they'd like to go get a no.1 d-man ... which says what about Joni?

Also missing time for the same injury in two consecutive seasons .... to me it's a bit of a red flag.

It's not a slam dunk, he's still has a lot of question marks. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, but you know for us to take him on would also be risky.

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Old
03-24-2007, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm just bringing a little balance to the discussion, because on these boards Pitkanen is talked up like a hockey god ... on Philly's boards they routinely take a crap on him.

I think their GM even said in the summer they'd like to go get a no.1 d-man ... which says what about Joni?

Also missing time for the same injury in two consecutive seasons .... to me it's a bit of a red flag.

It's not a slam dunk, he's still has a lot of question marks. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, but you know for us to take him on would also be risky.
Would they be looking to trade him for a more veteran and proven #1 defenceman? If so that puts us out for the market.

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03-24-2007, 09:45 PM
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Pure hypothetical. In order for anyone to pry Pitkanen out of Philly, you would have to blow the doors off with a trade offer. And even then I don't know if it would get him.

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03-24-2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
Would they be looking to trade him for a more veteran and proven #1 defenceman? If so that puts us out for the market.
Well basically what he's saying there indirectly is they don't feel like Pitkanen is a no.1 d-man right now.

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03-24-2007, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I'm just bringing a little balance to the discussion, because on these boards Pitkanen is talked up like a hockey god ... on Philly's boards they routinely take a crap on him.

I think their GM even said in the summer they'd like to go get a no.1 d-man ... which says what about Joni?

Also missing time for the same injury in two consecutive seasons .... to me it's a bit of a red flag.

It's not a slam dunk, he's still has a lot of question marks. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, but you know for us to take him on would also be risky.
I do think Oilers fans tend to overrate him in the sense that they feel like he will immediately be the answer to all of the problems on defense. In reality, Joni is a work in progress. He is not yet a #1. I don't think he is the piece that is going to put a team over the top if they are expecting to compete. However, he is a very nice piece in a rebuilding situation or in a situation where he isn't going to be the main guy.

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03-25-2007, 02:15 AM
  #25
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Interesting scenario: Lets say Philly is willing to trade Pitkanen to us for a fairly large package, with the caveat that we take Derian Hatcher's fat contract off their hands (thus freeing them up to sign say Timonen + maybe even Markov on top of that).

Would you do it? Yes, the guy is slow as hell, but you are getting Pitkanen, plus Hatcher is a big, nasty customer. It would probably prevent goons like Boogard from running our forwards all the time.

Philly then could potentially be something like this ...

Gagne Briere Lupul
Torres Carter Upshall


Timonen Jason Smith
Markov Coburn
Gauthier Greene/Parent/Timonen Jr.

Biron

That's a pretty sick squad.


Last edited by Soundwave: 03-25-2007 at 02:26 AM.
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