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Col/Pho proposal

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Old
12-15-2003, 09:34 AM
  #1
Flamesfan 26
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Col/Pho proposal

To Colorado
Chris Gratton
Brian Boucher
Brad Ference

To Phoenix
Riku Hahl
J-M Liles
5th round

Colorado is rumored to be looking for a backup and Boucher is a backup that can push for the #1, plus he has playoff experience if Abby can't pull it off in the post season. Also it is no secret that the Avs were interested in Chris Gratton at the deadline last year.

Phoenix has been desperatley trying to dump a goalie and Boucher makes sense. He is making 2m and he seems to be the odd man out. Gratton and Ference have been on the block for a while now and I think they would excel playing in Colorado where they don't have the preesure to perform like they do in Phoenix.

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Old
12-15-2003, 09:43 AM
  #2
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Brian Boucher cleared waivers this year and his $2.5 M pricetag would not interest Pierre Lacroix, nevermind the fact that he is *not* an upgrade on our goaltending and we already have two goalies with no room in Hershey for another.

Also, I don't think the Avs will be looking to move J-M Liles, even though Brad Ference interests me somewhat. Chris Gratton was a target as a third line centerman, but Andrei Nikolishin fills that role now and Gratton's salary on the fourth line would be pointless.

Bad trade.

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Old
12-15-2003, 09:54 AM
  #3
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How about this:

Col gets: S. Burke

Phx gets: Skoula, 2nd Rnd Pick

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Old
12-15-2003, 10:38 AM
  #4
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Avalanche 26 I like the way you think. I've been thinking along the lines of colorado trying to acquire Boucher for awhile, and he does have the backup experience they could use.
However i am not entirely sold on getting rid of liles yet, gratton would be nice to have though. And i am pretty much not really minding parting with hahl.

how about this:

to phoenix:

Riku Hahl
5th round
2nd round
Peter Worrel

to colorado:

Brian Boucher
Krys Kolanos
Chris Gratton

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Old
12-15-2003, 11:26 AM
  #5
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You can make up proposals all you want about any goalie other than Burke, but Burke is the man on the move, mentioning Boucher is just a waste of time. Not that Boucher is untouchable, but Burke is the goalie that will not be in Phoenix next season.

Skoula & 2nd Rounder is major overpayment for Burke as well, unfortunately. You wouldn't get any Coyotes fans turning that one down. A 2nd rounders alone is probably enough, or you could do Burke & Gratton for Skoula & 2nd Rounder. Although I don't see the Avs jacking up the payroll that much (+$6M).

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Old
12-15-2003, 12:45 PM
  #6
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Phoenix would love to trade either Burke or Boucher ... maybe even both ... but not in the same deal :p

Boucher makes $2.0 million not $2.5 million.

Colorado:
Hahl
Liles

Phoenix:
Burke

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Old
12-15-2003, 03:06 PM
  #7
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I wouldn't mind trading Boucher or Burke, but I'd also like something in return better than Riku Hahl or a 5th rounder. I'd be interested in someone like Liles.

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Old
12-15-2003, 03:08 PM
  #8
Enoch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteTony
Phoenix would love to trade either Burke or Boucher ... maybe even both ... but not in the same deal :p

Boucher makes $2.0 million not $2.5 million.

Colorado:
Hahl
Liles

Phoenix:
Burke
Too much IMO. I would think that a 2nd rounder would be the highest the Avs would go, as well as most other teams contending for the cup. No one likes to lose a player on the ice, especially at the deadline when chemistry is set.

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Old
12-15-2003, 05:00 PM
  #9
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I'll give this a shot.

To Colorado: Sean Burke, Brad Ference, Chris Gratton

To Phoenix: Keith Ballard, Riku Hahl, 1st rounder

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Old
12-15-2003, 05:35 PM
  #10
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HELL NO!

Ballard and a 1st round pick? PLUS Hahl...Ouch...

 
Old
12-16-2003, 09:06 AM
  #11
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PLUS Hahl? I dont know that he would even make the Coyotes team lol.

I had the same reaction at first but when you consider Gratton is roughly equivalent to, if not better than Reinprecht (who was traded for Ballard), Ference was traded for a very good 2nd, Hahl has little value at all.. its not so very outlandish especially when you consider its a very low 1st (28-30th).

Gratton = Ballard
Ference = 2nd (around 38th pick I think it was)
Burke upgrades high 2nd to low 1st (roughly 10 spots)

However I doubt they trade both their 1st and Ballard or have room to take that much salary.

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Old
12-16-2003, 09:59 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoyoteTony
Phoenix would love to trade either Burke or Boucher ... maybe even both ... but not in the same deal :p

Boucher makes $2.0 million not $2.5 million.

Colorado:
Hahl
Liles

Phoenix:
Burke
This for an aging, declining, overpaid pending UFA goalie? Here's an idea. Take out Hahl, take out Liles, and throw in a pick. Burke is good, but there's handful of better goaltender options out there.

I think most Coyote fans will be dissapointed with the return Burke gets, if he's traded at all.

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Old
12-16-2003, 11:37 AM
  #13
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I'm not high on Burke that much nor Gratton due to his salary, but if we could swing two seperate deals to get Ference and Grier, I'd be satisfied that most of our holes were filled. I think a Burke deal if it happens, happens at the deadline. Unless someone panics. Of course if Abby goes down for an extended period, I'd be at the front of the panic line.

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Old
12-16-2003, 07:29 PM
  #14
IceBagadonuts
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Phoenix Trades

Good thread here, my friends.

Ference has interested me for a while. He does have some issues, though... just like Skoula. However, he brings the physicality and nastiness that Skoula lacks -- a kind of young Brian Marchment. Their salaries and ages are similar, but Ferrence is more of a "spare part" in Phoenix right now.

Ference IS also a bit of a coach's "reclamation project"... perfect for Granato and Tocchet. He's been scratched for half the 'Yotes' games... ostensibly because of his penchant for dumb penalties, unfocused aggression, etc. Maybe Francis' benching of him has damaged his confidence... much like our incessant slams on Skoula (often deserved)have undoubtedly contributed to his regressing (brain-locks?) lately.

Both players' trade values, right now, are well-below their optimum. On a non-player swap deal, Ferrence could probably be had for a 3rd pick. I don't see Skoula fetching much more, do you? Both players are the classic "ripe-for-a-change-of-scenery" types... which could likey enable both of 'em to flourish somewhere else. In Ferrence's case, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out to be viewed as another Konowalchuk-type "steal" once he gets re-acclimated to a new team... wherever it is. He's one frustrated dude. Alternately, he'd make a heckuva #7 D for the Avs, albeit a bit pricey (at twice McAllister's salary).

With Skoula, there's a 50% chance we'll regret trading him a year from now... and the same odds we'll regret NOT trading him. He appears to lack the mental toughness to succeed with Colorado, but not in a smaller "pond".

IDEA: trade McAllister and a 6th pick for Ferrence now. Bring him along gradually. Later, trade Skoula and prospects/picks for either (1) an experienced back-up Goalie, or (2) more depth at Center or Right Wing (Peca? Pricey, but...) Well, there's budget issues there.

The Avs DID look at Center Chris Gratton, last year, but now he's just a duplicate for Nikolishin... at twice the price. And... Niko's consistent. Gratton's not.

The Yotes may be hot to move Ferrence now, whereas the Avs have the luxury of giving Skoula another month or 2 to get his head and posterior wired together to rebuild some trade value. Right now, Skoula's an expensive #6, though some teams (like the Flyers) pay more (e.g., Therrien) for depth D-men.

To make a trade work with these guys (Skoula & Ferrence) will probably require some kind of multi-player deal. However, Boucher may not be much of a G upgrade, and Burke is overpriced. I could see a Ferrence/Skoula trade working with some other 4th line players and/or prospects as part of the trade mix.

On the other hand, our combined brilliant public analyses probably doom any such trades for Lacroix.

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Old
12-17-2003, 09:15 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBagadonuts
Ference has interested me for a while. He does have some issues, though... just like Skoula. However, he brings the physicality and nastiness that Skoula lacks -- a kind of young Brian Marchment. Their salaries and ages are similar, but Ferrence is more of a "spare part" in Phoenix right now.

Ference IS also a bit of a coach's "reclamation project"... perfect for Granato and Tocchet. He's been scratched for half the 'Yotes' games... ostensibly because of his penchant for dumb penalties, unfocused aggression, etc. Maybe Francis' benching of him has damaged his confidence... much like our incessant slams on Skoula (often deserved)have undoubtedly contributed to his regressing (brain-locks?) lately.
He's been benched for his poor play, but more than that because of the other 6 defensemen ahead of him in line. No one expected Spiller to be as composed as he has, and he has essentially stolen a spot on the team at this point. That coupled with the fact that Ference has played poorly due to major confidence issues and off-ice related matters, you have the current situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBagadonuts
Both players' trade values, right now, are well-below their optimum. On a non-player swap deal, Ferrence could probably be had for a 3rd pick. I don't see Skoula fetching much more, do you? Both players are the classic "ripe-for-a-change-of-scenery" types... which could likey enable both of 'em to flourish somewhere else. In Ferrence's case, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out to be viewed as another Konowalchuk-type "steal" once he gets re-acclimated to a new team... wherever it is. He's one frustrated dude. Alternately, he'd make a heckuva #7 D for the Avs, albeit a bit pricey (at twice McAllister's salary).
Ference has a change of scenary already, he was just acquired at the deadline and has barely gotten into the lineup in general. A little too soon to judge the situation unless it clearly wasn't working out. The past couple of games Ference has been respectable and appears to be gaining the coaches respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBagadonuts
IDEA: trade McAllister and a 6th pick for Ferrence now. Bring him along gradually. Later, trade Skoula and prospects/picks for either (1) an experienced back-up Goalie, or (2) more depth at Center or Right Wing (Peca? Pricey, but...) Well, there's budget issues there.
And why do the Coyotes want McAllister? It's not going to happen, given the situation the Coyotes will likely package Ference with one of it's tenders if he does get moved. There is no reason to just throw him away at this point.

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