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Old
03-26-2007, 09:59 AM
  #26
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A quick look at the potential #1 centers we might pursue on July 1:

-- Gomez will be 28 in December, is 5'11", 200 lbs. and his career year is 33-51-84 in 2005-06 but otherwise he's never topped 19 goals.
-- Briere will be 30 in October, is 5'10", 179 lbs. and he's having a career year right now (31-58-89). He's topped 30 goals twice now, and topped 20 goals 2 other times (including 25 last year in only 48 games).
-- Drury will be 31 in August, is 5'10", 202 lbs. and has had at least 20 goals in every season but one; the last 2 years, he's had 30 and 35. However, he's never topped 70 points once.
-- Comrie will be 27 in September, is 5'10", 185 lbs. and has a pair of 30-goal seasons and a 20-goal season. His career high in points is 60.

Briere and Drury are right-handed shots; Comrie and Gomez are left-handed. Briere and Drury are in their 9th NHL season; Gomez in his 8th, Comrie in his 7th.

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03-26-2007, 10:19 AM
  #27
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IB...What do you think the order will be for those players' salaries, over the summer?

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03-26-2007, 10:44 AM
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Another thing to consider - all those are regular season numbers. Drury is a human Game 7 come the playoffs - the only phase of a hockey season that matters, IMO.

True, we are not in the playoffs yet, but I expect this team to be in them before the contract would expire. There is no sicker feeling for a fan than watching your team get into that critical now-or-never moment in the playoffs and realizing that instead of Druries on your team's side you have Tkachuks. It's awful.

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03-26-2007, 10:45 AM
  #29
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I think the bidding on Gomez starts at $7 million. If he takes less, either he's staying with New Jersey on the never-ending 1-year plan or he really wanted to play somewhere. Briere could be $6 million on the open market, but as I said ... I think Buffalo tries to sign him first. Drury could be $5.5-6 million. Comrie I think probably gets $4 million, I doubt he goes over $4.5 million.

Detroit has a crapload of cap space to work with and if Datsyuk mails in yet another playoff performance, they'll cut him loose and hit the open market looking for a replacement; they'll gladly spend $7 million on the guy they want and never blink. On the flip side, we've got enough cap space that we could trade a 7th to New Jersey for Gomez in June and have a few weeks to talk to him and try to work something out before July 1 - something Detroit can't do because they're wedged up near the cap.

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Old
03-26-2007, 10:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by 2ForRoughing View Post
Lombardi is much better than "mediocre," dude.

Maybe, but he certainly is not a #1 centerman. We need a true #1 centerman. Not another 2nd line centerman. Maybe he develops into a #1. Who knows?

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Old
03-26-2007, 10:57 AM
  #31
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I wouldn't pay Gomez 7mill, his numbers aren't that good.
Plus, Ive heard sometimes he takes days off.

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03-26-2007, 02:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I think the bidding on Gomez starts at $7 million. If he takes less, either he's staying with New Jersey on the never-ending 1-year plan or he really wanted to play somewhere. Briere could be $6 million on the open market, but as I said ... I think Buffalo tries to sign him first. Drury could be $5.5-6 million. Comrie I think probably gets $4 million, I doubt he goes over $4.5 million.

Detroit has a crapload of cap space to work with and if Datsyuk mails in yet another playoff performance, they'll cut him loose and hit the open market looking for a replacement; they'll gladly spend $7 million on the guy they want and never blink. On the flip side, we've got enough cap space that we could trade a 7th to New Jersey for Gomez in June and have a few weeks to talk to him and try to work something out before July 1 - something Detroit can't do because they're wedged up near the cap.

To be clear - you're saying you would give Gomez $7 million? for how many years?

Do you really think the Blues would do that?

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03-26-2007, 02:15 PM
  #33
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I'm saying that offering Gomez $6 million is going to get a team nowhere, b/c he's going to get $6.5 million and $7 million from more than a couple of teams unless he decides he wants to play somewhere regardless of salary. I wouldn't give him $7 million, and I don't think the Blues will either. He's only 28 so he's still got 5-6 good years ahead of him, but as I said ... he's only topped 20 goals once (that being this year).

But I also think if the Blues can talk to him early, they might be able to woo him here for their price ... which is why if they identify who exactly they want as that #1 center, they offer that guy's team a 7th-round pick to get him and have some extra time to try and get a deal done. The cap still applies in the offseason, but the Blues have the cap space to go do something like that; teams like Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Vancouver, Dallas, and others don't and it could give the Blues a leg up on getting their man before someone else does. If it doesn't work out, meh - we lost a 7th round pick.

That (trading a pick to have the right to talk to him for an extra week or two), I think is entirely possible - and something the Blues should seriously consider.

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03-26-2007, 02:29 PM
  #34
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Drury is the only one out of those that I'd pay what they're looking for. As far as skilled players go, we're a very young team. We need veterans for the kids like Oshie, Barriball, Berglund Soderberg etc. to learn from. A big part of the rationale in bringing in McKee was that he played the game the right way and could serve as a mentor to our young defense, especially Erik Johnson. No offense to any of the other 3, but Drury is head and shoulders above all of them on my list of "who do I want our players to model themselves after". Right now the only skilled forward on this team that could fit the bill as a mentor would be Doug Weight.

I'd then try to trade for a LW like Torres or Lupul from Edmonton using Backman as bait to fill the sizeable hole we have at LW.


My plan B would be Ryan Smyth again for the reasons of having a player that will help you on and off the ice as a mentor. Whoever mentioned Lombardi as a trade option has me intrigued. That'd be how I filled the center hole for now. We still wouldn't have a #1, but Lombardi would at least give us two competent top 6 centers.

A top nine of
*sigh*Cajanek Weight Boyes
Lupul Drury Oshie
Stempniak McClement Backes
or
Cajanek Weight Boyes
Smyth Lombardi Oshie
Stempniak McClement Backes


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Old
03-26-2007, 03:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I'm saying that offering Gomez $6 million is going to get a team nowhere, b/c he's going to get $6.5 million and $7 million from more than a couple of teams unless he decides he wants to play somewhere regardless of salary. I wouldn't give him $7 million, and I don't think the Blues will either. He's only 28 so he's still got 5-6 good years ahead of him, but as I said ... he's only topped 20 goals once (that being this year).

But I also think if the Blues can talk to him early, they might be able to woo him here for their price ... which is why if they identify who exactly they want as that #1 center, they offer that guy's team a 7th-round pick to get him and have some extra time to try and get a deal done. The cap still applies in the offseason, but the Blues have the cap space to go do something like that; teams like Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Vancouver, Dallas, and others don't and it could give the Blues a leg up on getting their man before someone else does. If it doesn't work out, meh - we lost a 7th round pick.

That (trading a pick to have the right to talk to him for an extra week or two), I think is entirely possible - and something the Blues should seriously consider.
Two questions - how much of a discount do you anticipate Gomez giving the Blues - and why would he do that?

Hope you're right - as long as they don't give him more than three years - but I don't see it. I have to guess that Gomez two priorities are money and competing for a Cup. He's used to being on winning teams but he has been underpaid.

Don't see him signing on to a rebuilding program unless he gets big bucks.

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Old
03-26-2007, 04:51 PM
  #36
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I think we can go to about $6.5 million per year for a #1 center, depending on how the contract is structured. '07-08 is tight because we've got money tied up in Weight, Cajanek, Rucinsky, Salvador, and Drake; after that, those 5 guys are UFA and we shed $11 million in payroll. IMO we need to wiggle through '07-08, and after that we're in much better shape.

I'm not sure how much of a discount he [Gomez] or anyone else would give us. I'd like to try and sell him on a few things if we get the chance, though:
-- We've got a great group of kids coming through the pipeline who have a load of talent,
-- Ownership is absolutely committed to bringing the Cup here,
-- He can be a leader on this team in helping bring the Cup here,
-- The fact that he can gain the near-undying love and respect of fans here with a blue-collar work ethic,
-- How much respect he'd gain from the St. Louis fans for helping take the Blues to the Cup

I want our #1 center to make a visit to St. Louis and walk out with his face looking like , thinking "I can be the difference here - I can be the go-to guy, the man who helps bring a Cup to the Gateway City." I want him to fully appreciate what the Bluenote means and want to be a part of that aura, want to have his name mentioned alongside Bob Plager, Noel Picard, and Garry Unger; be a guy that fans here remember fondly for many years to come. I want him to think to himself, "Yeah - I could get more money elsewhere, but this franchise gives me the best chance to win multiple Cups in my time here, I need to come to St. Louis and help make it happen."

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03-26-2007, 06:35 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I think we can go to about $6.5 million per year for a #1 center, depending on how the contract is structured. '07-08 is tight because we've got money tied up in Weight, Cajanek, Rucinsky, Salvador, and Drake; after that, those 5 guys are UFA and we shed $11 million in payroll. IMO we need to wiggle through '07-08, and after that we're in much better shape.

I'm not sure how much of a discount he [Gomez] or anyone else would give us. I'd like to try and sell him on a few things if we get the chance, though:
-- We've got a great group of kids coming through the pipeline who have a load of talent,
-- Ownership is absolutely committed to bringing the Cup here,
-- He can be a leader on this team in helping bring the Cup here,
-- The fact that he can gain the near-undying love and respect of fans here with a blue-collar work ethic,
-- How much respect he'd gain from the St. Louis fans for helping take the Blues to the Cup

I want our #1 center to make a visit to St. Louis and walk out with his face looking like , thinking "I can be the difference here - I can be the go-to guy, the man who helps bring a Cup to the Gateway City." I want him to fully appreciate what the Bluenote means and want to be a part of that aura, want to have his name mentioned alongside Bob Plager, Noel Picard, and Garry Unger; be a guy that fans here remember fondly for many years to come. I want him to think to himself, "Yeah - I could get more money elsewhere, but this franchise gives me the best chance to win multiple Cups in my time here, I need to come to St. Louis and help make it happen."
You convinced me - where do I sign? I'm afraid Gomez' agent won't feel the same way.

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Old
03-26-2007, 07:04 PM
  #38
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I seriously doubt Gomez is going anywhere next season. Just like last year Lou L.
will trade someone to make the cap work. If you were the Blues would you make this
trade on draft day? The Blues give New jersey back there first round pick along
with 3 players they cant sign Barulin,Skotov, and Zakarov and the Blues get John Madden, Richard Matvichuk and Niklas Berkfors. The Blues take on salary so the Devils
can keep Gomez and for doing so we get Berkfors. The best part of this deal for the Blues is that Patrik Bergland could play with Berkfors next in sweden and develop some chemistry before moving onto the big club the following year. The other two are
a little overpaid but they are still serviceable players who could add veterans leadership to the Blues next year. So would you pull the trigger on this deal?

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Old
03-26-2007, 07:09 PM
  #39
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No - I don't want Madden, Matvichuk clogs the situation on the blueline up even more (something we don't want), and Barulin has to be signed by this June 1 from what I've been told.

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03-26-2007, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan in oregon View Post
I seriously doubt Gomez is going anywhere next season.


I think he's pretty much going to leave. Read my post on the devils board. Also sometimes when I post stuff I forget some details and St. Louis did come up in the discussion there was another team but I forgot who it was it might have been Edmonton but I'm not sure. But where ever he goes it will be West.

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03-27-2007, 12:43 PM
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I read that Zeus is supposedly seeking 4 mill. So would you take him if it cost say 3.5mill? Or would that money be better off spent on Comrie, if the Blues determine they would spend around 4mill on a center?

Also what about getting VYACHESLAV KOZLOV, I know he ist young, but he can put up some numbers.


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03-27-2007, 04:17 PM
  #42
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For the same money, I'd prefer Handzeus to Comrie.

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Old
04-10-2007, 07:28 PM
  #43
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I see two general ways we go in free agency.

Plan A - find a long-term young UFA forward.
Plan B - summer 2006 redux (rehab projects on older vets ala Guerin).

I'm not going to discuss Plan B in this post, but at the end I post a list of the vast majority of scoring-line UFA forwards including all the old guys (though I left off the 749 year olds like Gary Roberts).

IMO, management should identify which small handful of long-term pieces are a good fit, rank them, make a run at them and then if they don't bite on our offers, immediately fall back to Plan B. What I'm arguing is they should NOT settle by giving a long-term deal to a lesser but younger player. For example, Mike Comrie. He's not the guy I want to build around, and he's going to require a 3-4 year deal in all likelihood. So if the Blues fail to land the prime guys, don't compund the problem by locking down an inferior element to an elite rebuild.

To that end, we've discussed Gomez and whichever of Drury or Briere the Sabres let go as top targets. What about wingers, other than Ryan Smyth (who would be great in Blue)? IMO Brad Boyes could play either center or wing for a year while we're waiting for Rucinsky's contract to expire (at which point Stempniak, Backes, Oshie, Boyes would all be full-timers for the top 6 wingers). His versatility gives us the luxury of also looking at wingers in addition to centers.

What do you guys think of these young wing UFAs: Scott Hartnell, Taylor Pyatt, Ruslan Fedotenko. I have some preliminary notes to get the ball rolling.

Hartnell will be 25 (!) next year. 6.2/210 and from what I gather on the Predator boards, they assume he is very likely gone due to cap and too many top UFA issues. One issue is a concussion history which could be problematic long-term given the type of power game he plays. However, to some extent all players are a risk for this. He doesn't have many data points on playoff production, with only 2G, 2A in 11 games. He'll bear watching this postseason for that.

On the plus side, he's at just the right age to fit in with the youth movement, with the advantage of being an established, productive vet. Over a full season, he's probably a 25-30 goal guy on a regular basis. Stempniak (24) - Boyes (25) - Hartnell (25)? With an eventual Oshie (20) - Soderberg (22) - Backes (23) line being pushed by Berglund and whomever we draft this summer?

Taylor Pyatt, 6.4/227 will be 26 and is likely to stay with Vancouver as they seem to be only a few hundred thousand apart. Like Hartnell, he is a young, talented, versatile power forward and former top 8 pick in the draft. Canucks fans seem to be unsure whether it's the Sedins or Pyatt responsible for his production, but IMO it's kind of irrelevant - put a talented guy on a line with other talented guys and what's the problem? Why bicker over who should get the credit when they produce? He wasn't all that special in the Sabres' playoff run last year, so like Hartnell, he bears watching this postseason. Although he and the Canucks aren't that far apart (he wants 1.5M per they offered 1.2M per for two years), he may just want to see what the market offers.

Ruslan Fedotenko, 6.2/195 is a guy I'm talking myself into. He'll be 28 at the start of the year and is a bona-fide playoff stud. He scores big, timely goals. He is willing to sacrifice in front. And this year his regular season production dropped off to its worst level of his career, which may make him less attractive to buyers, but shouldn't. Playoff heroism (12 goals in the 22-game Cup run including two in Game 7 of the Cup Finals) is a rare thing, and it shows he is absolutely unintimidated by the inevitable momentum shifts that always come in the playoffs. He made 1.65M on a one-year bridge-to-UFA deal last season, and will definitely look to cash in. Of course, he's compromised by a so-so regular season (12g, 20a in 80 gp). He's kind of both a "rehab" project ala Guerin AND a young piece for the core.

Finally, a list cobbled and pared down from the master UFA thread, with the ages they'll be by Oct/Nov 2007:

Scott Hartnell (25)
Taylor Pyatt (26)
Scott Gomez (27)
Nik Antropov (27)
Mike Comrie (27)
Ruslan Fedotenko (28)
Ladislav Nagy (28)
Kyle Calder (28)
Tyler Arnason (28)
Dainius Zubrus (29)
Jan Bulis (29)
Mike York (29)
Michal Handzus (30)
Petr Sykora (30)
Daniel Briere (30)
Jeff O'Neill (31)
Chris Drury (31)
Ryan Smyth (31)
Richard Zednik (31)
Viktor Kozlov (32)
Paul Kariya (33)
Jason Blake (34)
Scott Walker (34)
Mike Peca (34)
Peter Forsberg (34)
Vyacheslav Kozlov (35)
Ray Whitney (35)
Bryan Smolinski (35)
Michael Nylander (player option) (35)
Jozef Stumpel (35)
Robert Lang (36)
Teemu Selanne (37)
Pierre Turgeon (38)
Brendan Shanahan (38)

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04-10-2007, 08:51 PM
  #44
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I would not be opposed to your theory of signing wingers, PocketNines...I would love Hartnell, as I have mentioned several times before...I would also love Ryan Smyth...plus he has a lot of history with Weight, who impressed me with his production the last third of the season...Rucinsky, Cajanek, Drake, and possibly Weight all come off the books after next season...leaving tons of money and another year for McClement, Boyes, Soderberg, and hopefully Oshie to mature....to cut to the chase, I would actually prefer the signing of Smyth or Hartnell/other productive winger to spending 6.5-7 mil on a center.

Disclaimer: If Chris Drury will sign with the Blues, I am willing to pay whatever it takes to get him, and we will let the wingers develop from within...

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04-11-2007, 03:22 PM
  #45
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With Oshie now officially staying in college for 07-08, it looks like we have another UFA hole to fill. Perhaps Dvorak will get another stint.

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04-12-2007, 04:29 PM
  #46
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Dvo definately should be resigned. He is a player who can play many roles, has fun playing the game and is a vet who can fly. He might not put up many points, but I am fine with that. For the price he is worth resigning.

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04-12-2007, 10:35 PM
  #47
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After another great playoff performance (2 goals tonight). I still think there is no question that Drury should be our number 1 guy this summer.


I was hoping for the last 5 years, back in 2002 and 2003 when he was traded twice, that we would go after him.

Now is the time...We have the resources (no Tkachuck making 10 Million a year).

I would go up to 6.5 a season to get Drury (I don't think it will take that much though). Give him 4 to 5 years.

Much more upside than Briere or Gomez.

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04-12-2007, 10:47 PM
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I've got to think Drury will want more than Datsyuk got, he's worth it and he's got the track record.

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04-12-2007, 11:13 PM
  #49
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I've got to think Drury will want more than Datsyuk got, he's worth it and he's got the track record.
He is well worth it.

I don't know about the Datsyuk part, Maybe your right. But I think if there is a player out there anymore that is "not about the money" anymore...it's got to be someone like Drury. (judging on things I have read about him and his life over the decade).

I think for Drury it's more the right situation for him and his family...Remember he has never gotten to pick his place to go. (drafted by Quebec who Colorado took over his rights...traded to Calgary in 2002 and traded again in 2003 to Buffalo) Obivously he has re-signed with those teams in the past...but that just shows his loyality.

He has 2 young kids (we all know how st louis is a great place to raise a family) and if he wins a Stanley Cup for Buffalo for the first time ever (first time of any sport). He's got to see how much that means to a town like Buffalo, and how much that would mean to St Louis and how he could leave his legacy behind in 3 different cities (Denver, Buffalo and St Louis). And be remembered in Buffalo and St Louis hockey forever! Since he would be our Captain.

And still get paid a 20 million or so contract that will set him up for life.

Time will tell though.


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04-12-2007, 11:14 PM
  #50
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Honestly, I think Drury gets league maximum. Taking that into account, I would gladly pay that to have him in a bluenote next season.

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