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Why don't players like our organization?

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Old
03-28-2007, 01:50 PM
  #26
CantHaveTkachev
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Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Yes they have. Playoffs 3 years in a row since Sutter took over.
what about the last 10 years? or do players have that short of memory

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03-28-2007, 01:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
True...maybe that image problem has something to do with the people running the respective franchises?
or how about the fact that edmonton has become notorious for trying to run star players out of the city. Last year what was everyone saying about Pronger at the begining of the year ? or Peca all year ? how about Roli when he came here ? and now Hemmer and Lupul ?

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03-28-2007, 02:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
create a winning environment...players will want to come here...simple as that...
really? how's that "winning environment" in toronto where everyone seems to want to play?

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03-28-2007, 02:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Yes they have. Playoffs 3 years in a row since Sutter took over.
It takes time to compile data and get it ready for publication.
I suspect that this poll was given to the players long before it was clear that Edmonton wasn't going to make the playoffs this year. So really Calgary's on ice success prior to this season was a 1st round playoff loss and a Stanely Cup final appearance....not much better than Edmontons. Having travelled to pretty much every Canadian city I'd hazard a guess that the citys image (which isn't very good) has a bigger impact than some people are willing to admit.

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03-28-2007, 02:06 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
It takes time to compile data and get it ready for publication.
I suspect that this poll was given to the players long before it was clear that Edmonton wasn't going to make the playoffs this year. So really Calgary's on ice success prior to this season was a 1st round playoff loss and a Stanely Cup final appearance....not much better than Edmontons. Having travelled to pretty much every Canadian city I'd hazard a guess that the citys image (which isn't very good) has a bigger impact than some people are willing to admit.
There's that. There's also the whole Chris Pronger fiasco ... which every NHL player I'm sure knows about.

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03-28-2007, 02:06 PM
  #31
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If 'winning environment' truly meant something to the majority of NHLers, Buffalo wouldn't be looked at as such a Gulag...and Stanley Cup Champion Carolina would have drawn more than flies last summer during UFA season.

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03-28-2007, 02:08 PM
  #32
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Carolina didn't have any money to spend on UFAs though, they were pretty much budgeted out.

If they had money, they probably could've landed a nice UFA.

Buffalo got Spacek, which about all they could afford, but it was still (at the time) a pretty nice addition.

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03-28-2007, 02:09 PM
  #33
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If this was conducted the day after Game 7, we would've had alot more of the right votes I'm sure.

Simply put, everything has gone wrong this year. Watching the story unfold over the season, what player would want to come here right now?

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03-28-2007, 02:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
There's that. There's also the whole Chris Pronger fiasco ... which every NHL player I'm sure knows about.
Yeah....I was thinking about that when I was typing out my response. I sense that particular incident really resonated with a lot of NHL players. It really seemed to undermine and some would say eliminate any positives from going to the SCF.

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03-28-2007, 02:12 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Yeah....I was thinking about that when I was typing out my response. I sense that particular incident really resonated with a lot of NHL players. It really seemed to eliminate and undermine any positives from going to the SCF.
Without question. It was the biggest shock of the NHL offseason. You can bet every single NHL player, agent, GM, etc. stood around the water cooler at some point talking about it. It was the worst possible thing from a PR point of view that could have happened to the team.

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03-28-2007, 02:12 PM
  #36
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Edmonton as a city is currently going through its adolescence, IMO. I think it is finally beginning to believe that it is and can be so much more than a sleepy gov't rest-stop on the way from Calgary to Ft. Mac. We are in a transition phase at the moment, but between all the new downtown residential spaces being built, the cafe/reastaurant/nightlife that will inevitably follow (and has already started to do so), current and proposed river-valley development, ongoing massive changes and improvements at the UofA, the prospect of new downtown office towers, and the potential for a new downtown arena/entertainment complex, this city is going to be significantly changed for the better within the span of 5-10 years.

Back on topic, though, I believe that the major reasons are money and management. While it is demonstrably no longer the case, I believe the perception remains that the Oilers don't pay well compared to ther teams. I think that will change as we get further along into the post-cap era. As far as management is concerned, while I am a big supporter of Kevin Lowe, I think that he has attracted or contributed to much more than his fair share of drama re: the organization. Whether it's Comrie, Pronger, Smyth, Laraque, Chimera or whatever, bad vibes seem to have been following this team for a few years now. The organization and its fans could stand to see a little less emotion involved at the top, imo...

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03-28-2007, 02:16 PM
  #37
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In the future, and I'm not sure if this was the case with Pronger, but in the future we really should make sure we fly in potential UFAs or signings and show them around the city to make sure they like it and get a better P.O.V. on it.

I'm not sure if this was something that was done with Pronger. To me it seems like he just signed the contract after asking Doug Weight's opinion of the city.

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03-28-2007, 02:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
also lol @ the one player who listed "Cam Janssen" as the worst thing about his job.
That made me giggle when I read that too.

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Old
03-28-2007, 02:28 PM
  #39
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haha
This article is gold

Which of these under-22 players would you select as a foundation for you franchise?
1) Sidney Crosby (202) 76%
2) Alexander Ovechkin (39) 15%
3) Dion Phaneuf (11) 4%
4) Evgeni Malkin (9) 3%
5) Other -Dan Fritsche, Ryan Getzlaf, Karl Lehtonen, Mike Richards and Mathias Tjarnqvist (1) 0.4%

What’s the best thing about your job?
1) Living dream/playing/adrenaline/sold out buildings, etc. (111) 43%
2) Friendship/Teammates (32) 12%
3) Money/Lifestyle (26) 10%
4) Travel/other cities/road trips (25) 9.7%
5) Times off/Summer (22) 8.5%
6) Playing against best/competing (11) 4.2%
7) Everything (8) 3%
8) Fans (6) 2.3%
9) Women (5) 2%
10) Naps (3) 1.2%
11) Winning (3)1.2%
12) Fame (2) 0.78%
13) Hotels (1) 0.4%
14) Media (1) 0.4%
15) Trainers (1) 0.4%
16) Video Coach, Steve Summers (1) 0.4%

What’s the worst thing about your job?
1) Travel/flying/sked/missing family (104) 42.6%
2) Injuries (33) 13.5%
3) Nothing (25) 10.2%
4) Losing/slump (17) 6.9%
5) Media/questions/etc. (12) 4.9%
6) Uncertain future/Job security (9) 3.6%
7) Trades (8) 3.2%
8) Pressure (7) 2.8%
9) Practice (5) 2%
10) Politics/Business side (3) 1.2%
11) Working out (3) 1.2%
12) Backchecking (2) 0.81%
13) Back-to-back games (2) 0.81%
14) Protein shakes, watching video, late nights, filling out forms, fighting, autographs, missed childhood, girls, money, Cam Janssen, getting yelled at, pre-game skate, coaches and being booed (1) 0.4%

Who is the most overrated player in the NHL?
1) Sean Avery (17) 8.5%
2) Bryan McCabe and Brad Richards (16) 8%
3) Pavel Kubina (9) 4.5%
4) Marc Savard (8) 4%
5) Jaromir Jagr (7) 3.5%
6) Shane Doan and Ed Jovanovski (6) 3%
7) Jonathan Cheechoo (5) 2.5%
8) Todd Bertuzzi, Kevin Bieksa, Rick DiPietro, Bobby Holik, Sheldon Souray and Alexei Yashin (4) 2%
9) Sergei Fedorov, Hal Gill, Derian Hatcher, Cristobal Huet, Dion Phaneuf, Sergei Samsonov, Jeremy Roenick and Saku Koivu (3) 1.5%
10) Jay Bouwmeester, Dan Cloutier, Sidney Crosby, Adam Foote, Shawn Horcoff, Olli Jokinen, Paul Kariya, Olaf Kolzig, Rick Nash, Marcus Naslund, Petr Nedved, Vaclav Prospal, Jose Theodore, Joe Thornton, Darcy Tucker and Marty Turco (2) 1%
11) Daniel Alfredsson, Patrice Bergeron, Joel Bouchard, Jason Blake, Martin Brodeur, Anson Carter, Zdeno Chara, Mike Comrie, Peter Forsberg, Dominic Hasek, Nikolai Khabibulin, Alex Kovalev, Matthew Lombardi, Roberto Luongo, John Madden, Evgeni Malkin, Willie Mitchell, Chris Neil, Alexander Ovechkin, Brendan Shanahan, Bryan Smolinski, Ryan Smyth, Eric Stall, Mats Sundin, Alex Tanguay, Tim Taylor and Doug Weight (1) 0.5%

Who is the best player in the NHL this season?
1) Sidney Crosby (144) 56%
2) Joe Thornton (20) 7.7%
3) Vincent Lecavalier (14) 5.4%
4) Marian Hossa (13) 5%
5) Nicklas Lidstrom (12) 4.6%
6) Martin Brodeur, Alexander Ovechkin and Roberto Luongo (8) 3.1%
7) Teemu Selanne and Martin St. Louis (4) 1.5%
8) Daniel Briere and Jaromir Jagr (3) 1.16%
9) Peter Forsberg, Evgeni Malkin Scott Niedermayer (2) 0.77%
10) Erik Cole, Pavel Datsyuk, Rory Fitzpatrick, Eric Goddard, Josh Green, Jarome Iginla, Mike Modano, Ryan Miller, Brian Rolston and Henrik Zetterberg (1) 0.38%


Anyone know why Marc Savard is 5th in 'most hated players' list? Or why Buffalo is the least like to get traded to franchise?

Also, we aren't last with Carolina for 'if you could play for any team', we're actually 23rd/24th.

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Old
03-28-2007, 02:38 PM
  #40
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Edmonton as a city is currently going through its adolescence, IMO. I think it is finally beginning to believe that it is and can be so much more than a sleepy gov't rest-stop on the way from Calgary to Ft. Mac. We are in a transition phase at the moment, but between all the new downtown residential spaces being built, the cafe/reastaurant/nightlife that will inevitably follow (and has already started to do so), current and proposed river-valley development, ongoing massive changes and improvements at the UofA, the prospect of new downtown office towers, and the potential for a new downtown arena/entertainment complex, this city is going to be significantly changed for the better within the span of 5-10 years.
All good stuff and this development is badly needed IMO. Hopefully city council puts aside some money for infrastucture projects like the embarrassing condition of the major roadways. I come to Edmonton about once or twice a month and take no pleasure in driving on the brutal roads up there. Maybe they can fix the crumbling curbs and repair the rusted out light posts while they are at it.


Quote:
Back on topic, though, I believe that the major reasons are money and management. While it is demonstrably no longer the case, I believe the perception remains that the Oilers don't pay well compared to ther teams. I think that will change as we get further along into the post-cap era. As far as management is concerned, while I am a big supporter of Kevin Lowe, I think that he has attracted or contributed to much more than his fair share of drama re: the organization. Whether it's Comrie, Pronger, Smyth, Laraque, Chimera or whatever, bad vibes seem to have been following this team for a few years now. The organization and its fans could stand to see a little less emotion involved at the top, imo...
Each case has to be looked at individually but this team definitely seems to have more than it's fair share of players departing on bad terms.

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03-28-2007, 02:42 PM
  #41
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The teams in the West have to be more adament about evening out the schedules moreso too so the Eastern teams have to travel more too.

Bettman sort of just washed his hands of the whole thing, they need to force him to do something about it.

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03-28-2007, 02:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
I think the reasons go in this order:

1) Too much travel.
2) Too much fan/media attention.
3) They don't pay well.
4) Bad weather.
5) Smaller city.
6) Poor reputation for being competitive over the past 15 years.

I'd say #2 and #5 certainly have some positive aspects as well, but the fact remains that different people have different tastes. It seems there are quite a few hockey players that like at least a small taste of anonymity now and then and certainly people in general like bigger cities with all that they have to offer.

Honestly, I don't think this should be a big concern for the Oilers. They can only control #3 and #6 on this list anyway. I really don't see it as a significant barrier - just because Edmonton is not a first choice for NHL hockey players doesn't mean they can't bring players in and it doesn't mean it isn't an acquired taste for a lot of players either.
Yep, players want to play for a winner. Killing yourself to make the playoffs and then not having any gas left to make a serious run at the cup is not that appealing to players.

I mean, the other points like #2, I say meh. If that was the case, who would want to play in Montreal. Ottawa fans are also tough on their players. New York - I'm sure the media is merciless there. What the name of that nut on the radio who went at it with Milbury?

If Lowe can put a winning product on the ice, players will come.

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03-28-2007, 02:44 PM
  #43
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It's not even so much about getting players to come here.

It's about being able to retain them. Over the years we have had our fair share of talent come through here. To be fair too, we did retain all the major pieces of our playoff run last year (Pisani, Roli, Hemsky).

The one major piece that was gone was Pronger and we were forced into that, and if he stays, there are better chances that Spacek stays too. Not sure we'd even want him though. The thing is we were on thin ice before, and we were just getting some momenteum and rebuilding the image of the team, when basically Chris Pronger's wife decides she wants to tear all that down.

So basically all the hard work the front office put in from summer 2005 to rebuild a new identity for the team is flushed down the toliet because of one person's spouse, who otherwise has nothing at all to do with hockey whatsoever.

It's too bad the cap and the current economics were not in place back in 1997/98 ... had we been able to retain Cujo/Weight/Guerin and teams like Dallas not been able to overspend on their budgets, I think that core eventually would have competed for a Cup also.

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03-28-2007, 02:47 PM
  #44
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Yep, players want to play for a winner. Killing yourself to make the playoffs and then not having any gas left to make a serious run at the cup is not that appealing to players.
And yet not one player wanted to play in NJ.

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03-28-2007, 02:50 PM
  #45
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Edmonton as a city is currently going through its adolescence, IMO. I think it is finally beginning to believe that it is and can be so much more than a sleepy gov't rest-stop on the way from Calgary to Ft. Mac. We are in a transition phase at the moment, but between all the new downtown residential spaces being built, the cafe/reastaurant/nightlife that will inevitably follow (and has already started to do so), current and proposed river-valley development, ongoing massive changes and improvements at the UofA, the prospect of new downtown office towers, and the potential for a new downtown arena/entertainment complex, this city is going to be significantly changed for the better within the span of 5-10 years.

Back on topic, though, I believe that the major reasons are money and management. While it is demonstrably no longer the case, I believe the perception remains that the Oilers don't pay well compared to ther teams. I think that will change as we get further along into the post-cap era. As far as management is concerned, while I am a big supporter of Kevin Lowe, I think that he has attracted or contributed to much more than his fair share of drama re: the organization. Whether it's Comrie, Pronger, Smyth, Laraque, Chimera or whatever, bad vibes seem to have been following this team for a few years now. The organization and its fans could stand to see a little less emotion involved at the top, imo...
I still think the city itself has a lot to do with it... your point about a city in its adolescence is pretty bang on... Edmonton may have PLENTY going for it (or starting to go for it), but even as an Oilers fan who watches ALL of the games, even with all of those skyreach commercials, other than the obvious benefit of going to the games, I'm pretty oblivious to why I would ever want to live in Edmonton. It isn't that I have a negative impression of the city... but I know plenty of plain-jane CDN cities/towns and Edmonton hasn't done much in my eyes to distinguish itself.

As for the mngmt argument... that Edmonton doesn't pay players well... there is some truth to that. But
i) I really think it has more to do with the impression of the city as a sleepy town, and
ii) I think the fans animosity toward players past is as much to blame as the management. (Arnott, Poti, Bergeron, Peca, Salo and now Pisani, Lupul, Torres, Horcoff, etc) were feeling the heat every bit as much from fans and call in shows as they were from management. In fact in most of those cases, mgmt has gone out of their way to shield the player from criticism (Salo's still our #1, Who says Lupul is playing poorly?, Pisani is fine, etc)... when they do, this board is up in arms about the spin job we are being sold.

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03-28-2007, 02:56 PM
  #46
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The city does need to step up and bring its roads/the airport situation/cafe/nightlife scene up to par with at least Calgary.

But really are we even having this discussion if it wasn't for Mrs. Pronger? You'd figure 99.9% of wives would be happy that they're married to a guy making $6.25 million a year and leave it at that. Hell, even Peca said he was willing to come back despite his wife nagging him, he just never got an offer from the Oilers.

From everything Chris said himself, he loved playing here last year and I don't think he would have left unless his wife basically put a gun to his head. If Pronger stays, Smyth is almost certainly resigned and the team is in the playoffs and this is not even a discussion.

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03-28-2007, 02:58 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
It's not even so much about getting players to come here.

It's about being able to retain them. Over the years we have had our fair share of talent come through here. To be fair too, we did retain all the major pieces of our playoff run last year (Pisani, Roli, Hemsky).

The one major piece that was gone was Pronger and we were forced into that, and if he stays, there are better chances that Spacek stays too. Not sure we'd even want him though. The thing is we were on thin ice before, and we were just getting some momenteum and rebuilding the image of the team, when basically Chris Pronger's wife decides she wants to tear all that down.

So basically all the hard work the front office put in from summer 2005 to rebuild a new identity for the team is flushed down the toliet because of one person's spouse, who otherwise has nothing at all to do with hockey whatsoever.

....
Good point... when players have come here they've generally enjoyed the dressing room and the team (from management on down). The only players who have EVER badmouthed the team or the mgmt have been the tweeners like Bergeron or Laraque or Cross who couldn't keep a roster spot and couldn't/wouldn't rise to expectations.

The facts (as I see them) are that the management and hockey club in general will always be:
1) viewed positively by players who are already here
2) the city will not attract players here... it may repel some from arriving, but those that get here will deal with it because of #1....
3) except when a spousal... personal matter makes life difficult... (Arnott, Salo, Pronger), then the small-town microscope will make life in the fishbowl not worth the hassle.
4) Players who underperform will always be on a short leash becuase both MGMT and FANS don't tolerate underperforming millionaires... this seems to be a pervading attitude

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03-28-2007, 03:01 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The city does need to step up and bring its roads/the airport situation/cafe/nightlife scene up to par with at least Calgary.

But really are we even having this discussion if it wasn't for Mrs. Pronger? You'd figure 99.9% of wives would be happy that they're married to a guy making $6.25 million a year and leave it at that. Hell, even Peca said he was willing to come back despite his wife nagging him, he just never got an offer from the Oilers.

From everything Chris said himself, he loved playing here last year and I don't think he would have left unless his wife basically put a gun to his head. If Pronger stays, Smyth is almost certainly resigned and the team is in the playoffs and this is not even a discussion.

True... but 6.25M isn't worth all that much if you can't find a way to spend it to happiness. $6.25 in NYC can buy plenty of PRIVATE, romantic dinners to keep you and the Mrs. happy... in Edmonton you're options are limited due to both location and privacy.

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03-28-2007, 03:02 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
ii) I think the fans animosity toward players past is as much to blame as the management. (Arnott, Poti, Bergeron, Peca, Salo and now Pisani, Lupul, Torres, Horcoff, etc) were feeling the heat every bit as much from fans and call in shows as they were from management. In fact in most of those cases, mgmt has gone out of their way to shield the player from criticism (Salo's still our #1, Who says Lupul is playing poorly?, Pisani is fine, etc)... when they do, this board is up in arms about the spin job we are being sold.
This is definitely true - I should have included it. I become less and less impressed with local Oiler fans every year. This would actually be the major reason I wouldn't want to play here if I were in their position. Sure, you pay your money, you have every right to boo, insult, whatever, but you should understand that there are consequences...

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03-28-2007, 03:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
It takes time to compile data and get it ready for publication.
I suspect that this poll was given to the players long before it was clear that Edmonton wasn't going to make the playoffs this year. So really Calgary's on ice success prior to this season was a 1st round playoff loss and a Stanely Cup final appearance....not much better than Edmontons. Having travelled to pretty much every Canadian city I'd hazard a guess that the citys image (which isn't very good) has a bigger impact than some people are willing to admit.
Well Sutter has really turned the org around down there. They were the favourites to win the division and most publications and broadcasters had the Oilers missing the playoffs. The players would know that.

You're probably right about the image having a huge effect though. When money/lifestyle and travel are bigger concerns then winning it means the Oilers will always have a more difficult time attracting players. Winning would make a difference though, and that is the only thing the Oilers can control.

What’s the best thing about your job?
1) Living dream/playing/adrenaline/sold out buildings, etc. (111) 43%
2) Friendship/Teammates (32) 12%
3) Money/Lifestyle (26) 10%
4) Travel/other cities/road trips (25) 9.7%
5) Times off/Summer (22) 8.5%
6) Playing against best/competing (11) 4.2%
7) Everything (8) 3%
8) Fans (6) 2.3%
9) Women (5) 2%
10) Naps (3) 1.2%
11) Winning (3)1.2%


What’s the worst thing about your job?
1) Travel/flying/sked/missing family (104) 42.6%
2) Injuries (33) 13.5%
3) Nothing (25) 10.2%
4) Losing/slump (17) 6.9%

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