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Why don't players like our organization?

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Old
03-28-2007, 08:15 PM
  #76
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Skalbania View Post
i always thought it was less than a coincidence, that the "ice issue" at rexall place came out immediately following the patrik stefan miss, hemsky miracle goal. all the stars came back and said the ice was garbage and that was the reason the puck bounced. that was obviously late in the game when no ice is good, and i just felt that the media ran with it. i think the crap ice at rexall is severely blown out of proportion, and frankly born by media types trying to dig up stories.
No, the deteriorating ice at Rexall's been an issue since even before the lockout. I remember an interview with Cal Nichols pre-lockout where the issue of Rexall's ice making plant came up, and Cal said that they were looking at replacing it but not until they saw if the new CBA made keeping a team in Edmonton a more financial viable proposition.

Funny how now that they got the CBA they wanted, the topic's subtly changed from getting a new ice making plant to getting a new arena.

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Old
03-28-2007, 08:17 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
No, the deteriorating ice at Rexall's been an issue since even before the lockout. I remember an interview with Cal Nichols pre-lockout where the issue of Rexall's ice making plant came up, and Cal said that they were looking at replacing it but not until they saw if the new CBA made keeping a team in Edmonton a more financial viable proposition.

Funny how now that they got the CBA they wanted, the topic's subtly changed from getting a new ice making plant to getting a new arena.
A new arena has a new ice plant

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Old
03-28-2007, 08:20 PM
  #78
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the thing about the Flames though

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
also, name the huge free agent signings that calgary and vancouver have had over the last few seasons?

free agents that are highly sought after tend to end up in the east where travel is better. end of story.
is their org will pay guys they already have, ie Iginla, and we wouldnt do that with oh let's say Ryan Smyth. Also their GM will make deals for guys like Stuart while ours make nothing but excuses

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03-28-2007, 08:31 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Matts View Post
is their org will pay guys they already have, ie Iginla, and we wouldnt do that with oh let's say Ryan Smyth. Also their GM will make deals for guys like Stuart while ours make nothing but excuses
Our GM has made similiar deals (ie: Spacek), when the timing was right. I would like to see you argue how Lowe paying a similiar price for Stuart this year at the time calgary did, being a "good move".

And Calgary has paid one player elite money (Iginla), because he downright deserves it(although I would argue that Iginla is on the bottom end of the "elite status" scale). If the Oilers had an Iginla-type player, I would be willing to bet they would pay the big bucks to lock him up, which is what they did with Pronger.

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Old
03-28-2007, 08:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I dunno about HockeyNews, but if Brophy is part of it, then no surprise, he's been against the Oilers for a while now, always spewing crap about us, i think it was him, that on the Score, openly said that no one wants to play in Edmonton or something. And backed it up by saying some other crap that constantly puts a bad image on our City. Thats why he hates him, as we all do.
I don't know if it is "spewing crap" when it is a fact though. I can't speak to his bias against Edmonton, but I will certainly take your word on it.

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03-29-2007, 02:41 AM
  #81
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Not the first poll THN has run that has had Edmonton at the bottom of the league.

This question has been asked. It hasn't got a thing to do with the weather.

All due respect to those of you who trust in Lowe, there has been so much Lowe-bashing in the media. No GM in the league is so disparagingly talked about in the papers the next few mornings after the big trade. In fact, I cannot think of one notable player in recent memory who hasn't said something negative about Lowe. Maybe... Ninnimaa?

Maybe I put a lot more stock into this than some of you do. But when Don Meehan was on TSN talking about how the Smyth deal went down, I think there was no defending that, and the panel pretty much from Mike Keenan on down to Bobby MacKenzie agreed.

Just goes to show that people around Canada, nevermind just Edmonton, are scratching their heads wondering just what exactly Kevin Lowe is doing to improve his franchise lately?

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Old
03-29-2007, 02:50 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
Not the first poll THN has run that has had Edmonton at the bottom of the league.

This question has been asked. It hasn't got a thing to do with the weather.
If players are picking teams based on success and GM ability (as you alluded to with your comments directed at Lowe), why is Buffalo at the very bottom of the list in terms of desirable cities to play in?

Let's be honest here guys, the number one thing most players look for in the off-season is money. We're certainly not going to be a number one choice for many free agents out there (which is why Hartnell could be a very attractive option in free agency - he actually has some ties to the city and might want to play here) but we'll land a player or two if we fork out the cash.

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Old
03-29-2007, 03:08 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
, I cannot think of one notable player in recent memory who hasn't said something negative about Lowe. Maybe... Ninnimaa?
what did Pornger say, or Peca, or Spacek, or Samsanov ? How about Weight or Geurin or even York (he may have I don't know)

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Old
03-29-2007, 03:26 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
is their org will pay guys they already have, ie Iginla, and we wouldnt do that with oh let's say Ryan Smyth. Also their GM will make deals for guys like Stuart while ours make nothing but excuses
Iginla is a star, Smyth is not. Big difference.

I seem to remember Roloson, Spacek, and Samsonov coming over at the deadline last year. Lowe traded for Pronger before last season, as well.

Roll the clock back a year and you could bash Sutter instead of Lowe.

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Old
03-29-2007, 03:31 AM
  #85
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1)city. cold, small, not as exciting as other cities
2)reputation for being cheap
3)travel
4)

you know..just read my many posts. i spell it out and not going to keep going on about it. There are many other reasons. No way I am a young cool guy making millions I am living in Edmonton if I have a choice. Not a bloody chance.

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Old
03-29-2007, 03:33 AM
  #86
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Not gonna read the thread, but I'll chime in with my thoughts, first of all, yeah it sucks to see Edmonton 2nd behind buffalo of not wanting to get traded there, but lets also put into prespective that only 28 players said that, barely 10%. This is really no surprise, especially following this summer where so many media members were saying how players were running away from the city. Any other year, it probably wouldn't be quite as high.

Another thing, the Oilers with Carolina are not ranked last in the question If you could play for any NHL team (other than your own), which would you choose?

There are 7 teams (I believe) which aren't even listed. With such a small sample size (less than half the regulars in the NHL) if you took this survey again with the other half, there is a very very good chance you would get drastically different results in every catagory. Instead of only 2 players picking Buffalo, it could be 10, or it could be 5 who pick edmonton, and fewer who pick Toronto..

I'm sure all of this was already posted, but who cares

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Old
03-29-2007, 04:32 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
In fact, I cannot think of one notable player in recent memory who hasn't said something negative about Lowe.
Then name those that did.

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Old
03-29-2007, 07:00 AM
  #88
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There are a lot of less than impressive cities in the NHL, especially when stacked up against places like LA, Phoenix, etc. when it comes to quality of life when you're famous and have a ******** of money. Now, maybe the one thing many of those places have on the Oilers is a lighter travel schedule.

I have to think that, in many cases, quality of organization is the trump card (after money) when it comes to a player's final decision. As I've said in another thread, look at the job McLean did on selling Columbus. Personal visits, promotional DVDs highlighting the allure of the city and the team, flexibility when it comes to players' personal lives, etc.

If the Oilers want to have any hope of signing significant UFAs, they're going to have to get better at this - not just selling, but treating players like kings.

That's *if*. As the NHL has shown, the ability to draw free agents like flies doesn't necessarily produce the best on-ice results - Phoenix, LA, Columbus...

But no matter what, we do have to be better in order to remain competitive, especially once that 27 or 7 years UFA age starts reverberating through the league.

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Old
03-29-2007, 07:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
And yet not one player wanted to play in NJ.
Well, I guess I should have added "in general". Again, a number of other factors also come into play. From what I have heard, the whole NJ area isn't a very nice area apparently (I don't really know this, I've never been to NJ).

It gets to the point where players have their money, so eventually, they'd like a shot at the cup. I $$ in today's NHL is the driving force for players. Get as much as you can quickly. Eventually though, players want to play for a winner.

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Old
03-29-2007, 07:11 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan_55 View Post
Our GM has made similiar deals (ie: Spacek), when the timing was right. I would like to see you argue how Lowe paying a similiar price for Stuart this year at the time calgary did, being a "good move".
And Calgary has paid one player elite money (Iginla), because he downright deserves it(although I would argue that Iginla is on the bottom end of the "elite status" scale). If the Oilers had an Iginla-type player, I would be willing to bet they would pay the big bucks to lock him up, which is what they did with Pronger.
Some posters have really short memories. Hey I was pissed off at Lowe for not improving his team during the season but for someone to say that Lowe has never gone out and traded for some help has a short memory.

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Old
03-29-2007, 07:33 AM
  #91
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The honest truth is that, if any of us had millions of dollars and could choose any city in North America to live, it probably wouldn't be Edmonton.

That does not mean Edmonton isn't a great place to live. I love Edmonton and as a regular working person, it is a fantastic place for many reasons. As a working person I chose Edmonton over every other city in Western Canada.

But, as a multi-millionaire, I would choose Phoenix. Others would choose NY or LA. I don't think any wealthy person would choose any Canadian city if they had the choice.

I think we would all choose other cities to live in given the opportunity. But, because we are normal people, Edmonton is a fantastic option.

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Old
03-29-2007, 07:45 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
The honest truth is that, if any of us had millions of dollars and could choose any city in North America to live, it probably wouldn't be Edmonton.

That does not mean Edmonton isn't a great place to live. I love Edmonton and as a regular working person, it is a fantastic place for many reasons. As a working person I chose Edmonton over every other city in Western Canada.

But, as a multi-millionaire, I would choose Phoenix. Others would choose NY or LA. I don't think any wealthy person would choose any Canadian city if they had the choice.

I think we would all choose other cities to live in given the opportunity. But, because we are normal people, Edmonton is a fantastic option.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Katz

Quote:
His Net worth is said to be C$2.07 Billion.
He currently resides in the largest home in the city of Edmonton (just under 30,000 Sq. feet)
I only bring this up because he was being discussed in another thread

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Old
03-29-2007, 08:50 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post
is their org will pay guys they already have, ie Iginla, and we wouldnt do that with oh let's say Ryan Smyth. Also their GM will make deals for guys like Stuart while ours make nothing but excuses
yeah, remember those awesome deadline deals sutter made last season when everyone in the universe knew that the flames needed more offense?


*crickets*


remember how sutter's complete inaction at the deadline worked out in the playoffs? remember how the flames got bounced in the first round by a team that the flu-ravaged oilers eventually took care of in 5 games?

short memories, indeed.

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Old
03-29-2007, 09:17 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
yeah, remember those awesome deadline deals sutter made last season when everyone in the universe knew that the flames needed more offense?


*crickets*


remember how sutter's complete inaction at the deadline worked out in the playoffs? remember how the flames got bounced in the first round by a team that the flu-ravaged oilers eventually took care of in 5 games?

short memories, indeed.
The other thing that people forget about the Flames, is there two stars, Iginla and Kiprusoff, were acquired with some luck.

With Iginla that, the Flames originally wanted a then young Todd Harvey, but Dallas didn't want to part with him, so they got Iginla instead.

And with Kipper, he wasn't playing that well, then suddenly turned it, not that he's not good, but they took a chance and were rewarded.

And you're right about last year's deadline, the only thing the Flames needed to be a legit contender was more scoring, and they didn't get it, thus they were bounced in the 1st round.

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:15 AM
  #95
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"Why don't players like our organization?"

Cause it's a gong-show.

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:23 AM
  #96
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Why players dont want to play here?

Its because we have no franchise player to attract them. What did Lupul say when he was traded here? "It will be fun playing together with Stoll" .. what did sykora say when he was signed here "It'll be great playing alongside hemsky" .. people would want to play here if they know that the team has a luongo, iginla or kipper on the team. when ur top center is horcoff and top LW is Torres the team just doesnt look too attractive...

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:25 AM
  #97
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Wow, reading this thread, people really think very little of the Franchise and city many of us call our own.

I think, if you look at the piece, the players polled, weren't taking anything seriously. I believe it's a thonge in cheek polling job.

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:38 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
I really don't see it as a significant barrier - just because Edmonton is not a first choice for NHL hockey players doesn't mean they can't bring players in and it doesn't mean it isn't an acquired taste for a lot of players either.
It removes free agency from the plan, which is more important than ever before under the new CBA. Players become free agents earlier than ever before and there will be more roster turnover than ever before. Sure, some guys will be left on the table for Edmonton to get, but how many leftovers do you want suiting up?

The only players you get to force into Edmonton are draft picks and trades. Draft picks are better because they probably don't have wives and children to force them to beg their way out of town. So, you get 7 years with them, at the most, before they get a chance to leave (even for less money).

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:38 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
No, the deteriorating ice at Rexall's been an issue since even before the lockout. I remember an interview with Cal Nichols pre-lockout where the issue of Rexall's ice making plant came up, and Cal said that they were looking at replacing it but not until they saw if the new CBA made keeping a team in Edmonton a more financial viable proposition.

Funny how now that they got the CBA they wanted, the topic's subtly changed from getting a new ice making plant to getting a new arena.
Just as an FYI - the Oilers don't own the building or the ice plant - it's on the books at Northlands. The EIG lease it from the city, who leases it from the city of Edmonton. If Northlands were interested in replacing the ice plant for the next 5-7 years (which will be about the amount of time required to build a new building) - I'm sure Cal and the EIG would be very pleased.

That said - according to the notes to the financial statements of Northlands - the building and it mechanicals are reaching the end of their expected lifespans. The building will need replacement within the next ten years, without question.

The city (Mandel), Northlands, the EIG, and all of the fans agree on one thing. The current facility is not adequate, and needs replacement.

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:41 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
All due respect to those of you who trust in Lowe, there has been so much Lowe-bashing in the media. No GM in the league is so disparagingly talked about in the papers the next few mornings after the big trade. In fact, I cannot think of one notable player in recent memory who hasn't said something negative about Lowe. Maybe... Ninnimaa?
It's been asked already but just to reiterate.

Who has bad mouthed Lowe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
Maybe I put a lot more stock into this than some of you do. But when Don Meehan was on TSN talking about how the Smyth deal went down, I think there was no defending that, and the panel pretty much from Mike Keenan on down to Bobby MacKenzie agreed.
TV hockey experts make a living out of critiquing in the moment and rarely look ahead or or look back.

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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
Just goes to show that people around Canada, nevermind just Edmonton, are scratching their heads wondering just what exactly Kevin Lowe is doing to improve his franchise lately?
Sometimes not everything is as it seems. A move like this can go along way to improving your team on a number of fronts. These types of deals take time to assess, certainly more then the ten minutes between the announcement of the trade and the camera panning over to the expert hockey panel.

If these guys didn't like the specific return, that is one thing, but to not see the overall logic in making such a move is a mystery to me. These guys, Keenan specifically, should be able to see the big picture a little clearer than that. Considering he made a very similar move while he was GM of the Canucks.

Another example is Burke last year when he sent Federov packing. No one at the times of these deals could see the logic in these moves when they went down and yet both moves benefitted their teams greately.

Obviously time will tell if the return was acceptable but based on the assumption that a signing was not in the cards, the principle of the Smyth deal was sound.

I also find some irony in the notion that Lowe gets critisized so often around here for overvaluing his players and yet now that he stuck to his guns regarding what he feels a guy is worth he is getting critisized for being cheap. Does anyone actually doubt that should he have signed Smyth for 5.5, he would have been critisized for overpaying? The only guys that probably don't are the TSN panel but then again by the time October comes around I am sure they would have had a change of heart...like they have often proved in other situations.

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