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Why don't players like our organization?

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Old
03-29-2007, 10:47 AM
  #101
theoil
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
But, as a multi-millionaire, I would choose Phoenix. Others would choose NY or LA. I don't think any wealthy person would choose any Canadian city if they had the choice.
I take it you have never been to Phoenix in July. Insufferable. 46 degrees in the shade.

And just for the record there are a lot of multi-millionaires who chose to live in Edmonton. They just tend to leave for a month or two every winter. An option not available to hockey players - although they travel quite a bit their wives usually can't once they have children in school.

And for myself I would choose any Canadian NHL city over pretty much any American NHL city but maybe that is just me. The random violence of cities like Los Angeles and New York and Chicago along with what areas are 'safe' and the racial tension plus the disparity between rich and poor makes the U.S. far less attractive to me than Canadian cities.

But then, I like to leave every winter for a month.

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03-29-2007, 01:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Well, I guess I should have added "in general". Again, a number of other factors also come into play. From what I have heard, the whole NJ area isn't a very nice area apparently (I don't really know this, I've never been to NJ).

It gets to the point where players have their money, so eventually, they'd like a shot at the cup. I $$ in today's NHL is the driving force for players. Get as much as you can quickly. Eventually though, players want to play for a winner.
We were one win away from winning the Stanley Cup. Players couldn't get out of town fast enough. No, winning is not top on the lists of today's NHL. Sorry dude.

Edmonton Oilers and their management are cheap. The players know that. Years of players taking home town discounts and ownership not paying players market value has taken its toll. And players start to wonder why players leave once they reach a certain point. Started way back, Moog, Gretzky, Messier etc then even Doug Weight and Bill Guerin. Now, Ryan Smyth. No loyalty from management to their players.


Last edited by Loweball: 03-29-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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Old
03-29-2007, 01:51 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Katz



I only bring this up because he was being discussed in another thread
Went to University of Alberta. My guess he was born and raised in Edmonton. Makes a world of difference. Free agents who have never lived in Edmonton would not be in the same boat. In fact, this point clearly shows Kevin Lowe has to go for players raised in the area, as they don't know any different and enjoy the area.

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03-29-2007, 01:54 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by theoil View Post
I take it you have never been to Phoenix in July. Insufferable. 46 degrees in the shade.

And just for the record there are a lot of multi-millionaires who chose to live in Edmonton. They just tend to leave for a month or two every winter. An option not available to hockey players - although they travel quite a bit their wives usually can't once they have children in school.

And for myself I would choose any Canadian NHL city over pretty much any American NHL city but maybe that is just me. The random violence of cities like Los Angeles and New York and Chicago along with what areas are 'safe' and the racial tension plus the disparity between rich and poor makes the U.S. far less attractive to me than Canadian cities.

But then, I like to leave every winter for a month.
Edmonton doesn't have violence? I have walked the streets of New York City and have never felt safer. This is a misconception. I also feel much safer in Seattle compared to Vancouver. No comparison.

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03-29-2007, 01:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Went to University of Alberta. My guess he was born and raised in Edmonton. Makes a world of difference. Free agents who have never lived in Edmonton would not be in the same boat. In fact, this point clearly shows Kevin Lowe has to go for players raised in the area, as they don't know any different and enjoy the area.
There is a lot of truth to this....because of that I have never had an issue with Lowe targeting Alberta born players. Lets face it....Edmonton is clearly on the bottom rung of the ladder in terms of lifestyle for rich young men. Especially if you didn't grow up in or around the city. Add to that the brutal travel and brutal winters and throw in a losing atmosphere...who could blame a player for avoiding Edmonton like the plague.

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03-29-2007, 02:06 PM
  #106
Loweball
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
There is a lot of truth to this....because of that I have never had an issue with Lowe targeting Alberta born players. Lets face it....Edmonton is clearly on the bottom rung of the ladder in terms of lifestyle for rich young men. Especially if you didn't grow up in or around the city. Add to that the brutal travel and brutal winters and throw in a losing atmosphere...who could blame a player for avoiding Edmonton like the plague.
Precisely what I have been saying for some time. I am not criticizing the city. Just stating a fact as an outsider of the city. Every time I bring it up, people get defensive and start ripping where I am from and making comparisons. Believe me when I say this, Edmonton to people outside of Edmonton has a reputation of being a hole. Edmonchuk (don't know where that comes from, but that's what I hear)Sorry. My opinion is irrelevant. If you have lived there your whole life, you do not know any better. If I could live my dream making millions, Edmonton would be last on my list too. This my friends, is the biggest problem facing the Edmonton Oilers. Even with $45 million to spend, players in the new NHL choose where they want to play. We will get the leftovers. And hope they work out.

Think about this for a second: Think about where you guys go for vacations (ie Phoenix, LA, Miami). Imagine living there ALL the time.


Last edited by Loweball: 03-29-2007 at 02:15 PM.
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Old
03-29-2007, 02:21 PM
  #107
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i'd actually want to play where the game actually matters and where my job is relevant...but that's just me...

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03-29-2007, 02:44 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
i'd actually want to play where the game actually matters and where my job is relevant...but that's just me...
Me too. I just wish NHL players thought the same. They don't. That said, I can't blame a man for putting his happiness first, and if family is an issue, not just thinking about himself. In that case, fans should not matter. (not to bring up CFP, but he signed a deal, then chose family. Different story. He should not have signed it.)

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03-29-2007, 02:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Precisely what I have been saying for some time. I am not criticizing the city. Just stating a fact as an outsider of the city. Every time I bring it up, people get defensive and start ripping where I am from and making comparisons. Believe me when I say this, Edmonton to people outside of Edmonton has a reputation of being a hole. Edmonchuk (don't know where that comes from, but that's what I hear)Sorry. My opinion is irrelevant. If you have lived there your whole life, you do not know any better. If I could live my dream making millions, Edmonton would be last on my list too. This my friends, is the biggest problem facing the Edmonton Oilers. Even with $45 million to spend, players in the new NHL choose where they want to play. We will get the leftovers. And hope they work out.

Think about this for a second: Think about where you guys go for vacations (ie Phoenix, LA, Miami). Imagine living there ALL the time.
"I sure as heck don't take my vacations in Victoria BC. That place is a dump, and the only reason anyone would live there is if they were born there, and too dumb to know any better."


Now if someone came on a "Victoria local sports team" message board, and typed that in, I am willing to bet that they would be treated the same as you are here. I think you will have an impossible time convincing people that their city sucks to anyone who wasn't born and raised here. Your credibility went all our the window during another "edmonton sucks" thread where you claimed that all the "overweight women" in BC flock to Edmonton, because we have the only men who are desperate enough to date them.

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03-29-2007, 02:48 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan_55 View Post
"I sure as heck don't take my vacations in Victoria BC. That place is a dump, and the only reason anyone would live there is if they were born there, and too dumb to know any better."


Now if someone came on a "Victoria local sports team" message board, and typed that in, I am willing to bet that they would be treated the same as you are here. I think you will have an impossible time convincing people that their city sucks to anyone who wasn't born and raised here. Your credibility went all our the window during another "edmonton sucks" thread where you claimed that all the "overweight women" in BC flock to Edmonton, because we have the only men who are desperate enough to date them.
Defensive, as I said. And do not attempt to bring me into a battle. This is about NHL players opinions, not mine. Mine are irrelevant in this conversation.

as for what you said, that is not even close to what I meant. I have a beautiful friend who just so happens to be a little on the larger side, couldn't get a date in 5 years here, moved to Edmonton, met a fabulous man in a week. Way more single men in Edmonton than here. it's a fact. Harder for a girl to meet a guy here as there is 4-1 women to men ratio, more competition. Again, just stating a fact. How in the hell do you twist that around to me saying "fat chicks move from BC to Edmonton to meet a guy"??..wow.


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Old
03-29-2007, 03:03 PM
  #111
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I've lived all over North America, and even though Edmonton is my hometown, and my family lives there, I have very little desire to ever move back (despite numerous job opportunities).

Edmonton is an absolutely fantastic city, for what it is. I love the Oilers, I love having 4 seasons, but it's such a monumental paradigm shift for anyone who's experienced a lot of cultural diversity.

Secondly...

The team dosen't have any VERY high impact players that others would love to play with. We don't have an Iginla/Pfaneuf/Kipprusoff that Calgary Boasts, and I'm certain Pittsburgh would have been at the bottom of the list if they didn't have Crosby/Malkin/Staal/Fleury.

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03-29-2007, 03:47 PM
  #112
Yanner39
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
We were one win away from winning the Stanley Cup. Players couldn't get out of town fast enough. No, winning is not top on the lists of today's NHL. Sorry dude.

Edmonton Oilers and their management are cheap. The players know that. Years of players taking home town discounts and ownership not paying players market value has taken its toll. And players start to wonder why players leave once they reach a certain point. Started way back, Moog, Gretzky, Messier etc then even Doug Weight and Bill Guerin. Now, Ryan Smyth. No loyalty from management to their players.
First off, don't call me dude.

Second of all, did the little Stanley Cup run cloud your judgement as well? The Oilers are a 9th place team that made it in because the Canucks suck.

Let me tell you something, don't use last season as a sample. Dougie Weight stayed in Edmonton for as long as he could before economics got in the way? Gretzky and Messier left because of money not because of Edmonton. Moog? Are you freakin kidding me? With Fuhr as the starter, do you blame Moog for wanting to leave.

Loyalty's a 2 way street aswell. Putting the blame solely on management is ridiculous. Smyth is just as responsible for leaving as management is.

Finally the hometown discount. Wow what a joke of a comment. It's call restricted Free Agency. Smyth was signing these contracts because he has no choice. It has nothing to do with taking a hometown discount. If a RFA doesn't sign he doesn't play. And let's face it, you have to be a sap to think that players making millions are under paid. Now that Smyth is an UFA, he'll get his payday and good for him. Before that, he got paid based on the restrictions offered by restricted free agency. Dude.

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Old
03-29-2007, 04:21 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Went to University of Alberta. My guess he was born and raised in Edmonton. Makes a world of difference. Free agents who have never lived in Edmonton would not be in the same boat. In fact, this point clearly shows Kevin Lowe has to go for players raised in the area, as they don't know any different and enjoy the area.
The same applies to the Maple Leafs. Other than Native Ontarians does anybody really want to sign in Toronto? I don't think so.

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03-29-2007, 04:40 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
The same applies to the Maple Leafs. Other than Native Ontarians does anybody really want to sign in Toronto? I don't think so.
You know, I was all set to disprove this, and went looking for proof to the contrary. But amazingly enough, of the eight free agents signed by Toronto in 2006, all of them except two were from Ontario! :0 That was surprising to me.

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03-29-2007, 04:48 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
... If you have lived there your whole life, you do not know any better...
Look, I'm not debating that Edmonton appears to be low on the choice list of NHL hockey players...real life has borne that out. But if you're wondering why people get defensive, you might want to look at statements like the above.

Not all of us who were born in Edmonton are troglodytes never granted access to the outside world. Many of us have lived or visited other places and still prefer Edmonton. Keep that in mind before you insinuate that our fondness for the city is based merely in ignorance.

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03-29-2007, 04:53 PM
  #116
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The same applies to the Maple Leafs. Other than Native Ontarians does anybody really want to sign in Toronto? I don't think so.
Which dramatically increases their potential talent pool. 38 per cent of Canadian NHLers hail from Ont. Alta. is third with 17 per cent.

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03-29-2007, 05:53 PM
  #117
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Phoenix is terrible ... the place is literally a desert. The heat is almost unbearable and it's dry as well.

If I was a NHL player and really didn't give a crap about how I fit into a roster, I would probably choose Anaheim or Los Angeles.

Beachside property, warm weather, but nothing ridiculous, good nightlife, don't get bothered much, etc.

The Anaheim arena sucks though, Staples Center is much nicer. Then again the Kings organization sucks. So it's a toss up. However if I was a hockey player that really loved the sport ... I think you gotta at some point play in a hockey first city (read: Canadian city). Can't beat the playoff atmosphere.

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03-29-2007, 05:57 PM
  #118
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Phoenix is terrible ... the place is literally a desert. The heat is almost unbearable and it's dry as well.

If I was a NHL player and really didn't give a crap about how I fit into a roster, I would probably choose Anaheim or Los Angeles.

Beachside property, warm weather, but nothing ridiculous, good nightlife, don't get bothered much, etc.

The Anaheim arena sucks though, Staples Center is much nicer. Then again the Kings organization sucks. So it's a toss up. However if I was a hockey player that really loved the sport ... I think you gotta at some point play in a hockey first city (read: Canadian city). Can't beat the playoff atmosphere.
Have you been to Phoenix? Now I love Edmonton, and haven't been there in the full summer season, but Phoenix and area is a very nice city. The road system is amazing, the people are great, and the are only about a million things to do. It's a great city. Though I still prefer Edmonton.

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03-29-2007, 05:58 PM
  #119
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The problem with this discussion is the fact when former edmontonians like myself try to input we left and why players and their familes might not want to go to edmonton--it turns nasty and people get defencive and hostel

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03-29-2007, 11:49 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Edmonton doesn't have violence? I have walked the streets of New York City and have never felt safer. This is a misconception. I also feel much safer in Seattle compared to Vancouver. No comparison.
No NHL team in Seattle that I am aware of. I have also walked the streets of New York and there are parts of it where I don't think it was all that safe at all. Yes, Edmonton has violence and more and more of it. But it is not in the same league as NY I am afraid when it comes to crime. (amongst other things)

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03-30-2007, 12:17 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Second of all, did the little Stanley Cup run cloud your judgement as well? The Oilers are a 9th place team that made it in because the Canucks suck.
keep that in mind the next time you sing your praises at how lowe's "vision" almost brought us the cup..
Quote:
Finally the hometown discount. Wow what a joke of a comment. It's call restricted Free Agency. Smyth was signing these contracts because he has no choice. It has nothing to do with taking a hometown discount. If a RFA doesn't sign he doesn't play.
umm.. by your logic pronger was under contract and should've had no choice but remained an oiler right?..
comrie should've accepted his offer because after all he was a RFA right?..

if you are an impact player and you don't want to play for a certain team.. it doesn't matter if you are under contract.. rfa.. ufa.. you are going to be traded because the team will trade you for their own benefit.. frankly don't you think smyth would've made alot more thoughtout his career had he forced his way to some other team?.. can you point at any season that he was "overpaid"?.. but i can point at a few seasons where he was "underpaid" comparing to his colleagues.. that my friend.. is hometown discount whether you admit it or not..

smyth's paid his due here in edmonton.. he's taken his share of hometown discount and i don't think you can dispute his love/loyalty for the team..
if you want to talk about loyalty in the nhl.. you need to consider it both ways.. what have the oilers done to be "loyal" to smyth..
if you want to shrug it off and claim the whole thing as business.. then don't pull out any of this he's making millions of dollars so the fact that he's not an oiler means he's greedy..

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03-30-2007, 12:21 PM
  #122
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on the city's safety issue.. every city has its rich neighbourhoods and the ghetto areas..

if you are a wealthy athelete.. guess where you are going to be living in?.. so it's a non-issue..

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03-30-2007, 01:29 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Everything is about equal with the exception of the winter chinooks
Does anybody outside of BC and Alberta even know about chinooks?

No.

Weather-wise, "East people" (I'm bundling everybody east of Manitoba) think the prairies are cold. At least Calgary is near the Rocky Mountains so people have a more positive image of it.

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03-30-2007, 01:32 PM
  #124
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There are 30 x 23 = 690 roster jobs available in the NHL.

Each team will be able to afford max 3 high priced impact players at a time - 30 x 3 = 90 jobs. You might have preferences, and if you are the top 30 of those guys, you can probably drive the agenda (by demanding a trade or something). The other 60, you might have preferences, but only certain teams will be able to afford you at contract time. You can't be that choosy.

For the guys on the bottom of those rosters, your back 8 forwards, and backup goalie, and your 5,6,7 Defenceman -- you are still either an RFA, or a veteran hoping not to lose your job to a rookie. 30 x 12 = 360 jobs. Despite whatever your preferences are -- you are just happy to be playing the game.

So you have 240 other jobs, about 3/4 of which are RFA -- so you don't really have a choice. Leave's about 80 jobs which are UFA based.

If I did my math right, that's about 110 player jobs that are really affected whatsoever by a player's preferences. For each team, that's about 3.667 roster players.

Frankly, the player ratings are pretty close to irrelevant.

and in comparison . . .

The Sabres have been good to very good for several years. Buffalo is a ****** city (but better for travel), has passionate fans, a good organization -- BUT IS ALSO CHEAP and won't overpay so they can stay on budget. They are not a big magnet for UFA talent, and I bet they really don't care.

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03-30-2007, 01:43 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
Booms also go bust. For now Edmonton is doing well, but these things are cyclic. If not for the economy, Edmonton really doesn't have that many things going for it, unless you like to live in a backwater quiet place with clean air and low pollution.
I've grew up in the last boom times and went through the bust times in Edmonton... (very bad times)

Edmonton is decent culturally - Fringe Festival (second biggest in the world, I think, next to the original one in Scotland) and the Heritage Festival, etc.

Now, Calgary is a backwater but economically a tidal wave.

NOTE: I've since worked in major metropolises in 4 different continents. Would I go back? Only to raise children there...

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