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Why don't players like our organization?

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Old
03-30-2007, 02:58 PM
  #126
sticknrink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Have you been to Phoenix? Now I love Edmonton, and haven't been there in the full summer season, but Phoenix and area is a very nice city. The road system is amazing, the people are great, and the are only about a million things to do. It's a great city. Though I still prefer Edmonton.
UofAz has some ridiculously hot coeds.

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03-30-2007, 02:58 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Edmonton doesn't have violence? I have walked the streets of New York City and have never felt safer. This is a misconception. I also feel much safer in Seattle compared to Vancouver. No comparison.
Don't be a tourist in NYC or Chicago or LA and you'll see the slummy side full of poverty and violence. I've been a few blocks away from a major shootout (near USC) in daylight. Living in San Fran, I saw homeless bums break each other's forearms for drugs/cash on the streetcar I was on. All these "misconceptions" have basis in some facts.

The UK is the most violent country I've lived in. Muggings can happen anywhere after dark. And stay out long enough on a Friday + Saturday and you can pick a fight with anybody. Edmonton is postively geriatric compared to it.

As for Vancouver, I've heard it has drug violence problems.

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Old
03-30-2007, 03:30 PM
  #128
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Lol

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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Precisely what I have been saying for some time. I am not criticizing the city. Just stating a fact as an outsider of the city. Every time I bring it up, people get defensive and start ripping where I am from and making comparisons. Believe me when I say this, Edmonton to people outside of Edmonton has a reputation of being a hole. Edmonchuk (don't know where that comes from, but that's what I hear)Sorry. My opinion is irrelevant. If you have lived there your whole life, you do not know any better. If I could live my dream making millions, Edmonton would be last on my list too. This my friends, is the biggest problem facing the Edmonton Oilers. Even with $45 million to spend, players in the new NHL choose where they want to play. We will get the leftovers. And hope they work out.

Think about this for a second: Think about where you guys go for vacations (ie Phoenix, LA, Miami). Imagine living there ALL the time.
Really LOL.

Victoria is a back water.

Edmonton is a very nice city and I grew up in Europe.

Also, Ive been to the US. The US is alot more enclavish then Canada is and is pretty similar to Europe in this regard.

YOu're gonna be pretty safe in certain places, but take a wrong turn, in th emiddle of the day, and your life is in jeapordy.

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Old
03-30-2007, 03:40 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Does anybody outside of BC and Alberta even know about chinooks?

No.
Spot on.

Anyways, if it was about the city, why would Minnesota be a desirable place to play? Weather is nothing spectacular. City is nothing spectacular.

i think it has more to do with the Oilers, their facilities, and past UFA's leaving.

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Old
03-30-2007, 04:24 PM
  #130
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
UofAz has some ridiculously hot coeds.
The whole city in fact, however, and this is true because I've seen it with my own eyes, there are alot of pregnant young women (17 to 25) there. Like alot. I'm not trying to bad mouth the city, because I quite like the city, just pointing out an observation.

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Old
03-30-2007, 09:29 PM
  #131
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I can't believe how defensive people get around here. And again, someone compared my city to theirs. My point is about NHL players, not me.

I do have to apologize for wording in one of my posts

"people who have lived there their whole lives don't know any better" should have said "people who have lived there their whole lives don't know any DIFFERENT". I can see how my post was misconstrued to be negative and I apologize.

As for Phoenix, I drove there from BC 2 years ago, went to Mexico, through Vegas etc. i was amazed at how beautiful it was. How clean. How much money was there. Scottsdale as well. Absolutely stunning. But yes, smoking hot. I couldn't understand how anybody would be into hockey.

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Old
03-30-2007, 09:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
I can't believe how defensive people get around here. And again, someone compared my city to theirs. My point is about NHL players, not me.

I do have to apologize for wording in one of my posts

"people who have lived there their whole lives don't know any better" should have said "people who have lived there their whole lives don't know any DIFFERENT". I can see how my post was misconstrued to be negative and I apologize.

As for Phoenix, I drove there from BC 2 years ago, went to Mexico, through Vegas etc. i was amazed at how beautiful it was. How clean. How much money was there. Scottsdale as well. Absolutely stunning. But yes, smoking hot. I couldn't understand how anybody would be into hockey.
But again... if the city really plays a role, wouldn't Minny be far down on the list as well? It just seems odd the huge difference between the two organizations on the list.

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03-30-2007, 09:42 PM
  #133
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I wonder how much coaching and staffing overall play into it. I feel Minnesota is really coached well.

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Old
03-30-2007, 10:23 PM
  #134
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My brother in law lives in Minnesota. The quality of life, he says, is top notch. I have visited, albeit in the summer, and it is a very nice place as far as US cities go. It also has one of the biggest hockey followings, if not the biggest in the whole USA. The minor hockey system is one of the biggest, if not the biggest in the US. I agree though, if Edmonton is frowned upon for its climate, why is Minnesota so high.

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Old
03-30-2007, 10:33 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
But again... if the city really plays a role, wouldn't Minny be far down on the list as well? It just seems odd the huge difference between the two organizations on the list.
Put it this way...if you were an up and coming NHLer, would you want to come to a team where their storied past gets shoved down your throat by fans, media and especially the organization every time you turn around?

There's something to be said for respecting your past, but the Oilers positively wallow in it to a point where it gets on your nerves after a while.

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Old
03-30-2007, 10:48 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Put it this way...if you were an up and coming NHLer, would you want to come to a team where their storied past gets shoved down your throat by fans, media and especially the organization every time you turn around?
I know that stuff really has baseball players giving the NY Yankees a wide berth.


It's a creative theory, but I can't really see it being borne out. I think one of the things the Oilers could offer players - y'know, people who like and study and grew up with and are passionate about hockey - is a storied tradition.

I imagine if you did a players poll much like the THN one and asked "if you could have your name and jersey number hanging from the rafters in any NHL building other than the one you're playing in", Edmonton would do better than most teams.

Come to Edmonton. You will meet Paul Coffey. You might go golfing one day with Mark Messier. When you go on a playoff run, Kevin Lowe and Grant Fuhr will be there to give you advice and cheer you on. And one day, just maybe, your name will be hanging up there next to Gretzky's.

That's got to be a selling point - if sold correctly. Of course, maybe not a huge one compared to millions of dollars and year-round golf and co-eds on Lake Havasu...but a selling point nevertheless. And not a negative.

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Old
03-30-2007, 11:11 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Put it this way...if you were an up and coming NHLer, would you want to come to a team where their storied past gets shoved down your throat by fans, media and especially the organization every time you turn around?

There's something to be said for respecting your past, but the Oilers positively wallow in it to a point where it gets on your nerves after a while.
OK...gonna get really girly on you guys here. There is nothing that brings a tear to my eye, yes I admit it, than re-living those glory days. My girlfriend actually gave me a hug and really saw just how much when Mark Messier's jersey was lifted. My ex wife saw me bawl like a baby when Gretzky skated around the ice waving to the New York crowd (hence my avatar, the most emotional I have ever been during a sporting event). Watching the classic games on the NHL network brings me so much joy. These memories are the best of my childhood, i really mean it.

That said, the old boys club is tired. We need a new direction. The past is the past. It's done.

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Old
03-30-2007, 11:32 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
My ex wife saw me bawl like a baby when Gretzky skated around the ice waving to the New York crowd (hence my avatar, the most emotional I have ever been during a sporting event).
You should see the picture I have hanging about 1 foot above my head in front of my face right now from a special someone.

Only 9999 ever signed, and pretty similar to your avatar

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Old
03-31-2007, 04:01 AM
  #139
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Can you really get a good sample without even having one player from every team? I'd have some serious concerns about the methodology of the poll for that matter, what's the break down of the sample for Canadians, versus Americans and Europeans. How many top six guys did they talk to versus bottom six, defensemen, goaltenders?

The only thing I can really see being a knock against Edmonton is the travel. Guys who are used to the short road trips of the Eastern conference don't like having to travel like they're in Metallica and dragging their ass all over the western half of the continent.

I'm not really sold on the cold or small part of the argument some people put forward. The city has more than a million people, and if they want warm weather god knows with millions you can buy a condo in Florida or Mexico if that strikes your fancy.

Truthfully, I think the big knock against Edmonton in signing free agents has been we've been cheap in some circumstances and we haven't outbid other teams. Secondly, our travel schedual is harsh.

I think the bashing of the city is a bit much. Edmonton's a large city, you get all the amenities you'd want here. Lots of shopping, restraunts, concerts, bars and the like. Its a fairly easy city to get around in too, traffic system is superior to a number of other cities, good education system locally if your parents. Yea, its cold in the winter but hockey is a winter sport.

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Old
03-31-2007, 04:25 AM
  #140
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Just ask Pronger

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Old
03-31-2007, 08:06 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
keep that in mind the next time you sing your praises at how lowe's "vision" almost brought us the cup..
ah, whatever you say. I don't really remember when I "sung my praises that Lowe almost brought us a cup." I'm smart enough to realize that last year's cup run happended because alot of things fell into place: good deadline deals by Lowe, a bad Canucks team, players coming up huge at key times. I smart enough to realize that. You don't seem to be. The OIlers were an 8th place team last year, even with Pronger.

It doesn't change the fact that I was happy with what the Oilers accomplished last year nothing can take away the fact that the Oilers were a game away from winning the cup. I like Lowe. I always have.

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Originally Posted by 4th_Liner View Post
umm.. by your logic pronger was under contract and should've had no choice but remained an oiler right?..
comrie should've accepted his offer because after all he was a RFA right?..

if you are an impact player and you don't want to play for a certain team.. it doesn't matter if you are under contract.. rfa.. ufa.. you are going to be traded because the team will trade you for their own benefit.. frankly don't you think smyth would've made alot more thoughtout his career had he forced his way to some other team?.. can you point at any season that he was "overpaid"?.. but i can point at a few seasons where he was "underpaid" comparing to his colleagues.. that my friend.. is hometown discount whether you admit it or not..

smyth's paid his due here in edmonton.. he's taken his share of hometown discount and i don't think you can dispute his love/loyalty for the team..
if you want to talk about loyalty in the nhl.. you need to consider it both ways.. what have the oilers done to be "loyal" to smyth..
if you want to shrug it off and claim the whole thing as business.. then don't pull out any of this he's making millions of dollars so the fact that he's not an oiler means he's greedy..
We'll agree to disagree here. The hometown discount is a myth when a player is a restricted free agent and especially when he has no arbitration rights. Anyway you slice it, the team owns the player's rights until he reached UFA. The organization is under no obligation to trade a player if the player decides he doesn't want to play for a certain team. If the team wants, they could make him rot on the shelf until he signs the contract they offer but that would be bad business from the team's perspective.

From the player's standpoint he needs to sign the deal presented to him if he wants to play, pad his stats and increase his value. It's hard to increase your value if you don't play.

Just because a player signs the organization's offer, doesn't mean he's taking the hometown discount. It may mean that if he wants to play hockey and is thinking long-term.

Oh yeah, and your Pronger analogy is weak. Pronger had no choice - play in Edmonton or not play at all. Lowe was under no obligation to trade Pronger - please show me in the CBA that Lowe had to trade Pronger if Pronger, after signing a contract in good faith, demand a trade? I thought so. Weak example. Lowe traded Pronger to improve his team

Get this straight - players has very little leverage when they are restricted. As far as I am concern, they can 1) holdout, which I think is the wrong thing to do and 2) take the team to arbitration. That's it.

Now in terms of taking a hometown discount, I think it happens but only when the player has options. Chris Phillips here in Ottawa has openly admitted that he would take a hometown discount to remain in Ottawa. He could go anywhere, go back home out west, go play in the sunshine, he has a whole lot more options than Smyth had when he was restricted. That is a hometown discount.


Last edited by Yanner39: 03-31-2007 at 09:22 AM.
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Old
03-31-2007, 11:44 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
1)city. cold, small, not as exciting as other cities
2)reputation for being cheap
3)travel
4)

you know..just read my many posts. i spell it out and not going to keep going on about it. There are many other reasons. No way I am a young cool guy making millions I am living in Edmonton if I have a choice. Not a bloody chance.
The problem for players is that most of them really don't have an "all things equal" choice in front of them. There are only 30 teams in the league, only a limited number of potential roster spots that open up (through contract expirations) each year, and - most importantly - a salary cap. True elite UFAs that teams build cap space for may be able to pick and chose. However, for the rest, choosing location as the main driver will come at a big price. For a hockey player, the salary he makes while in the NHL will almost certainly be the best money he ever makes at any other job for the rest of his life. Can you really see the majority of them foregoing hundreds of thousands or even millions per year to choose a more desireable city for a couple of years. I don't, because they have the whole rest of their lives to pick and chose where to live.

The bottom line is that THN may be right, but it just isn't as big an issue people seem to be thinking. In any event, I find it kind of amusing that we're apparently so preoccupied by it right now. We should check back on this issue in July.

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03-31-2007, 07:28 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
We'll agree to disagree here. The hometown discount is a myth when a player is a restricted free agent and especially when he has no arbitration rights. Anyway you slice it, the team owns the player's rights until he reached UFA. The organization is under no obligation to trade a player if the player decides he doesn't want to play for a certain team. If the team wants, they could make him rot on the shelf until he signs the contract they offer but that would be bad business from the team's perspective.

From the player's standpoint he needs to sign the deal presented to him if he wants to play, pad his stats and increase his value. It's hard to increase your value if you don't play.

Just because a player signs the organization's offer, doesn't mean he's taking the hometown discount. It may mean that if he wants to play hockey and is thinking long-term.

Oh yeah, and your Pronger analogy is weak. Pronger had no choice - play in Edmonton or not play at all. Lowe was under no obligation to trade Pronger - please show me in the CBA that Lowe had to trade Pronger if Pronger, after signing a contract in good faith, demand a trade? I thought so. Weak example. Lowe traded Pronger to improve his team

Get this straight - players has very little leverage when they are restricted. As far as I am concern, they can 1) holdout, which I think is the wrong thing to do and 2) take the team to arbitration. That's it.

Now in terms of taking a hometown discount, I think it happens but only when the player has options. Chris Phillips here in Ottawa has openly admitted that he would take a hometown discount to remain in Ottawa. He could go anywhere, go back home out west, go play in the sunshine, he has a whole lot more options than Smyth had when he was restricted. That is a hometown discount.
fact: pronger was under contract..
fact: pronger had no choice under the rule..
fact: pronger did not want to play for the oilers any more..
fact: pronger was traded..

it's not about rules or no rules.. it's about the end results.. if an impact player does not want to play for a team.. he'll be traded.. why? because it hurts the team more.. their leverage is by not having me or equivalent of me on your team you'll hurt yourself.. how many guys were left rotten for a long time by their teams?..

if smyth didn't want to play for the oilers in any of the previous contract negotiations.. he didn't have to.. he'd sit out and eventually forced a trade just like comrie..
smyth was never overpaid by the oilers.. in some years i can make the argument that he was underpaid.. and that my friend is hometown discount..

finally.. you brought up phillips.. i'd like to point out ottawa's standing.. i'd also be interested in seeing the "discount"..

stand in smyth's shoes for a second.. you've played for the organization through good times and bad times.. you've been paid at or below the market value all your career.. your team has not been a contender for your entire career (remember how we finished 8th last year during the fluke run).. your team does not look like it's ready to contend next year.. and now your team has been playing hardball with you implying your worth in their books is not as high as it is to some other team on an open market even when you are having a great year..
you ask yourself.. where are the incentives to take the deal one more time..

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Old
04-01-2007, 04:11 AM
  #144
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I actually know for a fact the player that voted that he'd wish to be an Edmonton Oiler.

And it's not Georges Laraque.

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04-01-2007, 05:45 AM
  #145
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And that was?

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Old
04-01-2007, 02:08 PM
  #146
Loweball
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
You should see the picture I have hanging about 1 foot above my head in front of my face right now from a special someone.

Only 9999 ever signed, and pretty similar to your avatar
That sounds really cool, PDO..and who is that lovely lady in your avatar may I ask?

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Old
04-01-2007, 02:17 PM
  #147
MightyOil
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Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
I actually know for a fact the player that voted that he'd wish to be an Edmonton Oiler.

And it's not Georges Laraque.
Feel like sharing?, or just teasing?

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Old
04-01-2007, 08:39 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Lackadaisical View Post
Which NHL arena has the best ice?
1) Edmonton (152) 58.4% still ?
and that was an absolute rout of everyone else. I was surprised. I thought our ice wasn't the best anymore.

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