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UFAs hate washington?

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Old
03-28-2007, 05:32 PM
  #1
pgreene
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UFAs hate washington?

from the hockeynews players' poll:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news...p?idNews=24100

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%

ok, so based on the city-hate expressed there, and based on the free agents who have flocked to the cities above us on the list, how can anyone use "players hate washington" as a reason we can't land a good UFA?


Last edited by pgreene: 03-28-2007 at 05:33 PM. Reason: edit to add link
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03-28-2007, 05:35 PM
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Jasper17
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Not sure what you are trying to say, if anything that list gives some proof how much players don't want to come to Washington.

How many big name UFA's have signed for those listed teams?

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03-28-2007, 05:39 PM
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I'm shocked that we're not higher, LOL.

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03-28-2007, 05:40 PM
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I'm shocked that we're not higher, LOL.
That's what I was thinking. 4.8% ain't bad at all.

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03-28-2007, 05:43 PM
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Well the Caps for the most part have always been an org players have enjoyed playing for once they are here. You really don't hear to many guys complain about living in the area or the org.

However its just not a team that is very attractive to UFA's. If we can get them here they will prob like it, but getting them here is the problem.

The one thing that is interesting is that the arguement that players will come to play with Ovechkin or the arguement players will come once were good may not be true.

The Pens, a playoff team with the best set of young players in the league, including the best player in the NHL are #4 of that list.

The Sabres, maybe the best team in the NHL are #1

The Canes, the defending cup champs are are #6

So if winning and the chance to play with great young talent doesn't do it, i'm not sure what will.

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03-28-2007, 05:50 PM
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Another question worth mentioning is this...

If you could play for any NHL team (other than your own), which would you choose?

1) Toronto Maple Leafs (34) 14.4%
2) New York Rangers (29) 12.3%
3) Detroit Red Wings (19) 8%
4) Los Angeles Kings and Vancouver Canucks (18) 7.6%
5) Dallas Stars (15) 6.3%
6) Colorado Avalanche and Montreal Canadiens (14) 5.9%
7) Minnesota Wild and Tampa Bay Lightning (10) 4.2%
8) Phoenix Coyotes (9) 3.8%
9) Calgary Flames (8) 3.4%
10) Anaheim Ducks and Florida Panthers (5) 2.1%
11) Nashville Predators, Ottawa Senators and Pittsburgh Penguins (4) 1.7%
12) Chicago Blackhawks, Philadelphia Flyers and San Jose Sharks (3) 1.2%
13) Boston Bruins and Buffalo Sabres (2) 0.85%
14) Carolina Hurricane and Edmonton Oilers (1) 0.42%

24 out of 30 teams were mentioned there, the Caps were not one of them. (others were Devils, Islanders, Atlanta, Columbus, and St Louis)

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03-28-2007, 06:24 PM
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pgreene
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Not sure what you are trying to say, if anything that list gives some proof how much players don't want to come to Washington.

How many big name UFA's have signed for those listed teams?
my point was that many of these cities (who don't appear on the "i'd love to play there" list) have attracted all manner of high-profile free agents/high-end (i.e. no-trade clause waiver) trades, etc.

i'm not saying we'd have an easy time landing free agents. i just don't think "players hate us" is a good reason why we'd have a hard time.

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03-28-2007, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
from the hockeynews players' poll:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news...p?idNews=24100

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%

ok, so based on the city-hate expressed there, and based on the free agents who have flocked to the cities above us on the list, how can anyone use "players hate washington" as a reason we can't land a good UFA?
All this shows is that 130 hockey players forgot that Washington has a hockey team. Probably all west coast players.

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03-28-2007, 06:39 PM
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While I think the poll shows that the Caps are not HATED it doesn't really mean that they would LOVE to play here. Just that they would dislike playing somewhere else more.

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03-28-2007, 06:55 PM
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Free agents like money and winning.


The last few years, the caps ownership has offered neither.


Sure, playing in front of a decent # of fans appeals to some. But money and winning are usually what gets people to listen.

I'm not sure I could blame people for not wanting to play in Buffalo or Pittsburgh. Those cities are dumps.

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03-28-2007, 07:23 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Free agents like money and winning.

The last few years, the caps ownership has offered neither.
True.

The biggest question about the Caps and free agency this offseason will be: to what extent is the front office's dollar amount valuation of the players they're targeting different from what the market will dictate? The front office can certainly say that they believe Player X is a $4M / year player but if the market dictates that he's a $5M / year player then he's a $5M / year player.

Recent statements from GMGM about how rigid their valuation of certain players are, outside of market demand, make me skeptical that free agency will prove all that fruitful again this year. We saw what happened with signing Chara last year and I fear the exact same thing will occur this time around if there is such an equally large gap between their perception of value and real value. That's not to say that I condone overspending regularly and without reflection but at some point it's necessary to land the type of key player you're looking to add. Otherwise, you'll wind up with players that you somehow overvalue based on your valuation formula or, as has been the case, scraps.

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03-28-2007, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
True.

The biggest question about the Caps and free agency this offseason will be: to what extent is the front office's dollar amount valuation of the players they're targeting different from what the market will dictate? The front office can certainly say that they believe Player X is a $4M / year player but if the market dictates that he's a $5M / year player then he's a $5M / year player.

Recent statements from GMGM about how rigid their valuation of certain players are, outside of market demand, make me skeptical that free agency will prove all that fruitful again this year. We saw what happened with signing Chara last year and I fear the exact same thing will occur this time around if there is such an equally large gap between their perception of value and real value. That's not to say that I condone overspending regularly and without reflection but at some point it's necessary to land the type of key player you're looking to add. Otherwise, you'll wind up with players that you somehow overvalue based on your valuation formula or, as has been the case, scraps.
by the same token, they have to operate off a budget, particularly if they're lining up multiple acquisitions and looking at maxing out alexes, etc.

but don't mistake me--i'm not saying people are flocking here. i'm simply saying i disagree (well, i've always disagreed, but now it looks like the players back me up) with people who say "we can't get FAs b/c players hate d.c."

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03-28-2007, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
by the same token, they have to operate off a budget, particularly if they're lining up multiple acquisitions and looking at maxing out alexes, etc.
Certainly. That's why exhausting the trade route (a less pricey way of making an addition, the majority of the time) very early on in the offseason would make a lot of sense (and is something I think they'll look to do).

I never really thought that the city itself was a problematic issue for free agents but moreso money and that DC isn't generally a booming hockey town.

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03-28-2007, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
True.

The biggest question about the Caps and free agency this offseason will be: to what extent is the front office's dollar amount valuation of the players they're targeting different from what the market will dictate? The front office can certainly say that they believe Player X is a $4M / year player but if the market dictates that he's a $5M / year player then he's a $5M / year player.

Recent statements from GMGM about how rigid their valuation of certain players are, outside of market demand, make me skeptical that free agency will prove all that fruitful again this year. We saw what happened with signing Chara last year and I fear the exact same thing will occur this time around if there is such an equally large gap between their perception of value and real value. That's not to say that I condone overspending regularly and without reflection but at some point it's necessary to land the type of key player you're looking to add. Otherwise, you'll wind up with players that you somehow overvalue based on your valuation formula or, as has been the case, scraps.
After the Caps lost in the first round to the Penguins pre Jagr, Leonsis said without qualifying it that he would add an impact offensive player that off season. When Turgeon and especially Roenick not only passed on the Caps competitive offers, but slapped Leonsis in the face for good measure, Leonsis fullfilled his promise with the Jagr trade and the disaster began.

NOW, each promise is qualified. They say they will add players. Leonsis says this summer "will be different". McPhee says there will be "5 or 6 roster changes" and that the team will be active in both trade and free agent markets. But he shows the disclaimer about putting a value on a player after a full season of scouting and investigating and not being pushed by a bidding war to sign a bad contract.

It all follows the script. We are left to ourselves to judge their real intent. I think they would rather lose cheap than get pushed into a contract that they are not comfortable with and lose expensive again. I think they would rather lose cheap than risk that. In the end I think that is what will happen because bargains on the free agent market are rare.

Chara was probably worth his contract, but barely and since having Chara seemed to do nothing to improve the Bruins you can make a case that they(boston) made a mistake.

My opinion is that at some point any team has to take financial risks to win. I am afraid the Capitals are not willing to do that anymore.

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03-28-2007, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Free agents like money and winning.


The last few years, the caps ownership has offered neither.
True and it wasn't part of the plan. Again, prrof is this offseason, where they've stated they're going after players via UFA signings and trade.

Not directed at you, Chimaera, but your post sparked the need to say it again:

Let's get off the assumptions that GMGM values FAs less than market value. He's done nothing in this rebuild to prove or disprove it. He's got a budget and needs, anyone who's managed a project knows the limitations contained within - he can't fill all the needs. To expect anything else is akin to masochism, IMHO. To want more is fine. Signing Chara last year would have precluded the Caps from filling needs this year - and one could argue that we wouldn't have Jurcina or Erskine on the team if that had happened. I say we saved $5M by going the route we chose - Chara isn't the answer, nor would he have singelhandedly put us into the playoffs. Wha would have happened would be a hefty salary that handcuffed us further.

The Caps need at center is much more glaring than defense. Yes, the D played pretty bad this year, but they are as young and mistake prone as they are talented. At issue is we have no one save NickelBack on the roster or in the system who has a prayer of contributing at a top line center position the way the Caps need it.

What I can't understand is that, with all the talent - yes, including Flash, Fehr, Eminger, and Klepis - we continue to field a team of Beechs, Muirs, Laichs, Bradleys and Clymers with Brashears, Gordons, Sutherbys, Pettingers, and Clarks. The system Hanlon put in does not play to their strengths and the young guys' development has suffered.

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03-28-2007, 08:34 PM
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I've a distinct feeling they're going to have to exhaust all the trade options by the draft and figure out what they want to do before free agency opens. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the draft is before the market opens, but if it isn't, then certainly there needs to be a magical deadline to where they work to find a workable player or two, and then go into free agency knowing what they need to spend on.


If they get no one through the trade market, they almost have to overpay someone.

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03-28-2007, 08:48 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
In other words, players like the city but not so much the franchise or hockey market there.
what?

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03-28-2007, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I've a distinct feeling they're going to have to exhaust all the trade options by the draft and figure out what they want to do before free agency opens. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the draft is before the market opens, but if it isn't, then certainly there needs to be a magical deadline to where they work to find a workable player or two, and then go into free agency knowing what they need to spend on.


If they get no one through the trade market, they almost have to overpay someone.
in that interview with Mcphee during Washington Post Live he said the Caps would look to make trades before they thought about adding free agents.

To me that means he knows this team can't attract the top end talent, which shouldn't come as any surprise.

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03-28-2007, 08:56 PM
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my point was that many of these cities (who don't appear on the "i'd love to play there" list) have attracted all manner of high-profile free agents/high-end (i.e. no-trade clause waiver) trades, etc.

i'm not saying we'd have an easy time landing free agents. i just don't think "players hate us" is a good reason why we'd have a hard time.
Well if players hate us, that is a very good reason why we would have a hard time (hate is a strong word, dislike is better).

And the reason why I was confused was because the origional question was about teams you do not want to be traded to. And none of the cities above us on that list have really signed a high-profile UFA in some time. At least I can't think of any.

Any way you want to spin it. Being ranked 7th on a list of teams players don't want to get traded too and being one of only 6 teams not on a list of teams players want to play for is not a very good thing.

And something that worries me a bit about these two questions is that some of the teams listed that players don't want to play for/don't want to get traded too are excellent teams (Buffalo, Carolina). Which makes me wonder if winning is enough to attract UFA's to your city. And the theory that many players would love to play with Ovechkin kinda goes out the door a bit when you see Crosby's Pens so low on teams you want to play for and so high on teams you don't want to get traded too.

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03-28-2007, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I've a distinct feeling they're going to have to exhaust all the trade options by the draft and figure out what they want to do before free agency opens. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the draft is before the market opens, but if it isn't, then certainly there needs to be a magical deadline to where they work to find a workable player or two, and then go into free agency knowing what they need to spend on.


If they get no one through the trade market, they almost have to overpay someone.
I agree - Try and trade for a younger cheaper guy first - I also wonder if they would try an RFA?

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03-28-2007, 10:42 PM
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I agree - Try and trade for a younger cheaper guy first - I also wonder if they would try an RFA?
they might trade for a young RFA a team thinks they can't keep, or won't fit financially.

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03-28-2007, 10:48 PM
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03-28-2007, 10:54 PM
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Signing Chara last year would have precluded the Caps from filling needs this year - and one could argue that we wouldn't have Jurcina or Erskine on the team if that had happened. I say we saved $5M by going the route we chose - Chara isn't the answer, nor would he have singelhandedly put us into the playoffs. Wha would have happened would be a hefty salary that handcuffed us further.

The Caps need at center is much more glaring than defense.
Last time I checked the number 1 need for this team are defensemen who can play defense and QB the powerplay. Jerky and Erskine are nice little finds but they will never be legit or No. 1 or No. 2 defensemen in this league. Jerky is a 3 at best and Erkine is a 5 at best - and I'm being optimistic.

While Chara is not the single answer to the Caps problems, they have no legitimate No. 1 or No. 2 defenseman. And every good team needs them. Frankly, I would be much happier with an average centermen to be paired with Backstrom as our No. 1 and 2 centers if I knew we had at least one player who could play 30 minutes on the blueline and help run the No. 1 PP.

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03-28-2007, 11:02 PM
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Free agency is a mine field. I think the Caps have been smart (or lucky) to not sign the big name UFAs...it is usually bad for your team. A guy like Chara is an exception and there are others who come around once in awhile who can make you team better despite the cost and the chemistry troubles...

The Caps have to build a winning franchise...that will solve all the problems except that they also need to get the Caps the hell out of the SE division. That we no longer have a rivalry with Philly, the NY/NJ teams is a joke.

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03-28-2007, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well if players hate us, that is a very good reason why we would have a hard time (hate is a strong word, dislike is better).

And the reason why I was confused was because the origional question was about teams you do not want to be traded to. And none of the cities above us on that list have really signed a high-profile UFA in some time. At least I can't think of any.

Any way you want to spin it. Being ranked 7th on a list of teams players don't want to get traded too and being one of only 6 teams not on a list of teams players want to play for is not a very good thing.

And something that worries me a bit about these two questions is that some of the teams listed that players don't want to play for/don't want to get traded too are excellent teams (Buffalo, Carolina). Which makes me wonder if winning is enough to attract UFA's to your city. And the theory that many players would love to play with Ovechkin kinda goes out the door a bit when you see Crosby's Pens so low on teams you want to play for and so high on teams you don't want to get traded too.
Read the posed question from the original post again and it'll help clarify your last paragraph:

"To what city would you least like to be traded?"

Not team, city. It may be dismissed as semantics but the way in which questions are framed and the exact terms used in polls often have a large influence over the answer.

(As for my earlier post, I misread the poll question so strike that.)


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