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Old
03-28-2007, 11:20 PM
  #26
Jasper17
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Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Read the posed question from the original post again and it'll help clarify your last paragraph:

"To what city would you least like to be traded?"

Not team, city. It may be dismissed as semantics but the way in which questions are framed and the exact terms used in polls often have a large influence over the answer.

(As for my earlier post, I misread the poll question so strike that.)
who cares?

If players don't like the team, or the city, or the gas prices, or whatever. Players still say they don't want to come here, thats not good.

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03-29-2007, 08:09 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
from the hockeynews players' poll:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news...p?idNews=24100

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%

ok, so based on the city-hate expressed there, and based on the free agents who have flocked to the cities above us on the list, how can anyone use "players hate washington" as a reason we can't land a good UFA?

Maybe this reflects the overall history and area the team is in...vs what has become of the franchise the last...near decade, now.

There's very little doubt players hate coming here. One need only see the (sic) effort put forth by a Linden, Friesen, Jagr, Lang, Cassells, etc to know what I'm talking about.

My take?

This all relates to how we've treated players, actually warring with them and putting them down in the press, as well as waging uneven treatment and haggling over small change in contract disputes.

Who could forget Ted's interview between periods of a Panther/Caps game when he slammed Adam Oates for wanting more money...saying words to the effect of "we aren't interested in players who aren't loyal"...and other similiar comments in the Post & Times.

Or the Zednick situation, where McPhee was quoted in the press as saying "Zednick doesn't like to work hard. He just wants to miss camp". Calling your own player "lazy" in the press. Of course, this brings an even greater question in consideration of the fact that we acquired Zeds again last summer:
Why do you want a player back who you once claimed was lazy?

Or what of Simon & Bondra...or even a Darcy Verot? All of these players are asked to play through injury "for the team"...then when their performances suffered, the Caps use this as a reason to lowball them, In Simon's case in particuliar... with constant references to how this play fell off in the press during the negotiations, convieniently forgetting that his play fell off because he was playing while being injured. Simon was coming off that career year, and expected a reward. The Caps claimed to be "far, far apart" as to the numbers that Simon was demanding, and what they could pay. Of course, when they do sign him, it turns out that "far far apart" was only a hundred thousand dollars. Simon misses training camp, is inserted into the lineup with no practice, and promptly injures himself, an injury he never overcame while playing in DC.

Bondra, arguably the Caps greatest player...is offered an entry level contract ($500k) by McPhee, and McPhee releases the amount of the offer to the press. Openly rubbing Bondra's nose in it, so to speak. Although outrage forces McPhee to up the offer...Bondra is so angry that he actually takes less in Atlanta to play.

Now, I'll be frank. Darcy Verot is a friend. You can see a pic to the left as my sig.
The Caps asked him to play through injury in Portland. Told him "you're in our plans...we'll get you that surgury after the season is over so you'll be ready for camp with us...etc" So Darcy believes them, plays through the injury (shoulder/back area), and worsens it. He has the surgey in the off-season, and what does McPhee do? He tells Darcy: "OH, did I say you were in our plans? You aren't now." Had Darcy had the surgury earlier when he needed it, he'd have passed his physical and be playing for or in the Calgary organization right now, as Sutter was calling him regularly that August. Note: he's a Syracuse Crunch these days, the Blue Jackets AHL team.

But we can give Olie the moon ($5.5 million a year for 2 yrs, no less). A 3 or more goals a game goalie with bad wheels.

And these are just a few examples by someone around the boards longer than ANY of you, and who kept track of all this nonsense.

And here's a tidbit you guys don't know:

During the famous "meeting" with the Discovery Crew...Ted asked the group to quit making speculative and critical posts and post only nice things....post propaganda...in other words.

And you wonder how players wouldn't want to play here?

HELLO!


Last edited by BTCG: 03-29-2007 at 08:21 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old
03-29-2007, 08:24 AM
  #28
HockeyCritter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
from the hockeynews players' poll:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news...p?idNews=24100

To what city would you least like to be traded?
1) Buffalo Sabres (40) 16%
2) Edmonton Oilers (28) 11.2%
3) New York Islanders (24) 9.6%
4) Pittsburgh Penguins (18) 7.2%
5) Florida Panthers (17) 6.8%
6) Carolina Hurricanes and St. Louis Blues (13) 5.2%
7) Washington Capitals (12) 4.8%

ok, so based on the city-hate expressed there, and based on the free agents who have flocked to the cities above us on the list, how can anyone use "players hate washington" as a reason we can't land a good UFA?
Hey, we beat Pittsburgh in something ..

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03-29-2007, 08:37 AM
  #29
Jasper17
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Originally Posted by HockeyCritter View Post
Hey, we beat Pittsburgh in something ..
It is kinda funny that even a winning team and great young players isn't enough to make anyone want to live in Pittsburgh or Buffalo.

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03-29-2007, 08:40 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
in that interview with Mcphee during Washington Post Live he said the Caps would look to make trades before they thought about adding free agents.

To me that means he knows this team can't attract the top end talent, which shouldn't come as any surprise.
To me it means he's looking for a cheaper alternative before he jumps into FA.

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03-29-2007, 08:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Well if players hate us, that is a very good reason why we would have a hard time (hate is a strong word, dislike is better).

And the reason why I was confused was because the origional question was about teams you do not want to be traded to. And none of the cities above us on that list have really signed a high-profile UFA in some time. At least I can't think of any.

Any way you want to spin it. Being ranked 7th on a list of teams players don't want to get traded too and being one of only 6 teams not on a list of teams players want to play for is not a very good thing.

And something that worries me a bit about these two questions is that some of the teams listed that players don't want to play for/don't want to get traded too are excellent teams (Buffalo, Carolina). Which makes me wonder if winning is enough to attract UFA's to your city. And the theory that many players would love to play with Ovechkin kinda goes out the door a bit when you see Crosby's Pens so low on teams you want to play for and so high on teams you don't want to get traded too.
I remember the same talk when Oates was traded here - it turned out fine. This is overblown.

The stats guy in me says that the top 6 represent 55% of the poll. I feel bad for Zubie (#1) and Zednik (#3)


Last edited by dinoflint: 03-29-2007 at 08:48 AM.
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Old
03-29-2007, 08:42 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
It is kinda funny that even a winning team and great young players isn't enough to make anyone want to live in Pittsburgh or Buffalo.
Having spent a good chunk of time in both cities, I can't say I blame them.

I'm surprised Florida scored as poorly as it did .... My dad lives in that area and it's lovely (not to mention you get great weather for golf all year long).

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03-29-2007, 08:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HockeyCritter View Post
Having spent a good chunk of time in both cities, I can't say I blame them.

I'm surprised Florida scored as poorly as it did .... My dad lives in that area and it's lovely (not to mention you get great weather for golf all year long).
I have been to both cities, and I have never wanted to go back.

As for Florida, its a great place to live. But if you going to go to a team in Florida you are going to go to TB. But you are right it is a little surprising how poorly it is ranked based on the fact that it is Fort Lauderdale Florida, not at all a bad place to be.

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03-29-2007, 08:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by C-A-P-S View Post
Last time I checked the number 1 need for this team are defensemen who can play defense and QB the powerplay. Jerky and Erskine are nice little finds but they will never be legit or No. 1 or No. 2 defensemen in this league. Jerky is a 3 at best and Erkine is a 5 at best - and I'm being optimistic.

While Chara is not the single answer to the Caps problems, they have no legitimate No. 1 or No. 2 defenseman. And every good team needs them. Frankly, I would be much happier with an average centermen to be paired with Backstrom as our No. 1 and 2 centers if I knew we had at least one player who could play 30 minutes on the blueline and help run the No. 1 PP.
The Caps have drafted Dmen that projected to be PP QBs - Eminger, McNeil - and signed another in Pothier. They don't have a center, save Backstrom, that projects to a top line role.

I totally agree with you that we need a better results the on the point - I just think its secondary to our dearth at center.

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03-29-2007, 08:56 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ididitlangway View Post
Read the posed question from the original post again and it'll help clarify your last paragraph:

"To what city would you least like to be traded?"

Not team, city. It may be dismissed as semantics but the way in which questions are framed and the exact terms used in polls often have a large influence over the answer.

(As for my earlier post, I misread the poll question so strike that.)
I think it's a reflection on the team, regardless of the question's semantics.

As for the results, the Devils and the Rangers are right behind us...then the heralded Canadiens.

Think about that again - out of 283 NHLers, 12 said Washington is the worst - 9 said the Rangers and 8 said Montreal. I don't see those struggling to sign anyone in their off-seasons...

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Old
03-29-2007, 09:05 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dinoflint View Post
The Caps have drafted Dmen that projected to be PP QBs - Eminger, McNeil - and signed another in Pothier. They don't have a center, save Backstrom, that projects to a top line role.

I totally agree with you that we need a better results the on the point - I just think its secondary to our dearth at center.
Just a quick aside...I think the notion of counting on your D for points is one of our big problems. My formula has always been: for every offenceive Dman...you need 2 stay at home types, in order to balance the parings. As such, we've been horribly outta balance for years.

As a philosophy, you count on your O to score, and any D scoring is a bonus. A Dman's primary job...is to play D.

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03-29-2007, 10:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Just a quick aside...I think the notion of counting on your D for points is one of our big problems. My formula has always been: for every offenceive Dman...you need 2 stay at home types, in order to balance the parings. As such, we've been horribly outta balance for years.

As a philosophy, you count on your O to score, and any D scoring is a bonus. A Dman's primary job...is to play D.
I 100% agree with this.

There has been a couple times Joe B and Locker, as well as some here have mentioned a offensive defensman that can QB the power play as a top priority. I personally think that is a huge mistake.

Obviously you do need a PP point man who can skate and pass, but I think the Caps have a far greater need for players than can help in the defensive end more than in the offensive end.

IMO the top priority would be to add a phyiscal defensive defensman rather than an strong shooting offensive defensman.

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03-29-2007, 11:39 AM
  #38
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You are mistaken on the importance of offense from the defense. While its not ever your primary source of offense, the lack of it can be a serious problem. Because the Capitals have next to zero scoring threat on the blue line opposing coaches play defense 5 against 3 on the Capitals. They do that safely because the two players on the blue are no threat even when left alone.

On the power play its even more critical. Good shots from the point create rebounds and havoc. They break the defensive box up and create running around. Except when Semin is at the point teams kill penalties in large part by inviting the Capitals to shoot from the blue line. Their shots are slow to get off, often therefore blocked, and not a threat to score when they are not blocked.

At 5 on 5 when its 3 on 3 its the late comer on offense that is the threat and often the open man. The Caps have no threat in those situations.

Production from the blue line is critical.

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03-29-2007, 11:41 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
You are mistaken on the importance of offense from the defense. While its not ever your primary source of offense, the lack of it can be a serious problem. Because the Capitals have next to zero scoring threat on the blue line opposing coaches play defense 5 against 3 on the Capitals. They do that safely because the two players on the blue are no threat even when left alone.

On the power play its even more critical. Good shots from the point create rebounds and havoc. They break the defensive box up and create running around. Except when Semin is at the point teams kill penalties in large part by inviting the Capitals to shoot from the blue line. Their shots are slow to get off, often therefore blocked, and not a threat to score when they are not blocked.

At 5 on 5 when its 3 on 3 its the late comer on offense that is the threat and often the open man. The Caps have no threat in those situations.

Production from the blue line is critical.
Totally agree.

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03-29-2007, 11:52 AM
  #40
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So much hand wringing for 12 votes.

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03-29-2007, 01:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
This all relates to how we've treated players, actually warring with them and putting them down in the press,

*snip*

And you wonder how players wouldn't want to play here?

HELLO!
I'm not arguing that there hasn't been some bad blood between mgmt and players in the past. But that's getting too in-depth. And a lot of teams have been in the same boat, we're not all that different.

But I say that is getting a bit unnecessarily deep. Most FAs are going to go to winning teams in towns that have a hockey legacy. We have neither. Take our homerism for the Caps out of it and ask yourself where you would want to play if you were a pro hokcey player and could choose a city. Any unbiased answer wouldn't have DC anywhere in the top half.



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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
A Dman's primary job...is to play D.
Yes but people underestimate the importance of the transition game. Especially when it comes to scoring 5-on-5, your breakouts are HUGELY dependent on dmen who can move the puck either with crisp outlet passes or by carrying it out themselves. That's something that we very sorely lack right now. A d-man obviously needs to play D, but the really valuable dmen can also handle their responsibilities in getting the offense kickstarted.

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03-29-2007, 02:02 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Burgh32 View Post
Yes but people underestimate the importance of the transition game. Especially when it comes to scoring 5-on-5, your breakouts are HUGELY dependent on dmen who can move the puck either with crisp outlet passes or by carrying it out themselves. That's something that we very sorely lack right now. A d-man obviously needs to play D, but the really valuable dmen can also handle their responsibilities in getting the offense kickstarted.
I generally agree with your point, but I think it's interesting that even with this D group washington is 14th in the league in ES goals. They are 17th in PP goals (not %), 7th in SH goals, 9th in empty net goals, 18th in 4-on-4 goals, and have fallen to the 22nd spot in PP%.

Sorry, my point was that their O is OK at ES, but then I started playing with the NHL.com stats machine.

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03-29-2007, 02:08 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post

Bondra, arguably the Caps greatest player...is offered an entry level contract ($500k) by McPhee, and McPhee releases the amount of the offer to the press. Openly rubbing Bondra's nose in it, so to speak. Although outrage forces McPhee to up the offer...Bondra is so angry that he actually takes less in Atlanta to play.
This is inaccurate. Bondra made over $3 mill with Atlanta with easy to earn bonuses.

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03-29-2007, 02:17 PM
  #44
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Didn't the Caps offer over $2-million guaranteed while the Thrashers offer was just above league minimum and bonus that could bring upwards of $3-million (include bonuses for games played and playoffs)?

Also, McPhee did not mention any figures until Winter went to the press.

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03-29-2007, 02:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Burgh32 View Post
I'm not arguing that there hasn't been some bad blood between mgmt and players in the past. But that's getting too in-depth. And a lot of teams have been in the same boat, we're not all that different.

But I say that is getting a bit unnecessarily deep. Most FAs are going to go to winning teams in towns that have a hockey legacy. We have neither. Take our homerism for the Caps out of it and ask yourself where you would want to play if you were a pro hokcey player and could choose a city. Any unbiased answer wouldn't have DC anywhere in the top half.




Yes but people underestimate the importance of the transition game. Especially when it comes to scoring 5-on-5, your breakouts are HUGELY dependent on dmen who can move the puck either with crisp outlet passes or by carrying it out themselves. That's something that we very sorely lack right now. A d-man obviously needs to play D, but the really valuable dmen can also handle their responsibilities in getting the offense kickstarted.

I agree. However, I think that money and whether or not a team is a winner are the main factors in deciding where free agents wish to play. I think the legacy thing is a factor, but if Washington offered a player 5 million versus Detroit offering that player 4 million I think the player would choose Washington 9 out of 10 times. I'm not directing this at you personally, but I really wouldn't get too worked up over this survey. I mean it was only 4.8% of players who said they would not go to Washington so it's not really that big of a percentage or anything.

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03-29-2007, 02:21 PM
  #46
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I guess that Bat Signal is working again.

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03-29-2007, 02:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
It is kinda funny that even a winning team and great young players isn't enough to make anyone want to live in Pittsburgh or Buffalo.
Funny, a lot of NHL players, coaches, commentators seem to disagree

http://www.buffalorising.com/story/a...r_of_nhl_playe

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03-29-2007, 03:13 PM
  #48
Jasper17
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Originally Posted by Jeremy2020 View Post
Funny, a lot of NHL players, coaches, commentators seem to disagree

http://www.buffalorising.com/story/a...r_of_nhl_playe
did you not look at the two questions mentioned on this thread.

Buffalo, despite being the best team in the NHL, is ranked #1 among places player do not want to be traded. And only .85% of the players said they would like to play their.

And if you don't think these polls mean anything, go ask Willis McGahe what he thinks of Buffalo.

Sorry pal, but that place sucks. But some people like having nothing to do and no one to bother them, so i can understand why some older people would choose to live their.

In fact the only thing good about Buffalo, is that you can get to Canada quick.

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03-29-2007, 03:15 PM
  #49
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The only time I see a player sacraficing some salary to sign somewhere are the older star players who are trying to get on a cup challenging team.

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Old
03-29-2007, 03:19 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Nightspore View Post
if Washington offered a player 5 million versus Detroit offering that player 4 million I think the player would choose Washington 9 out of 10 times.
This is prob true, but are the Caps willing to out bid/over pay players to come here. Based on past history and McPhee's recent comments on WPL the answer is NO.

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