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Old
03-31-2007, 11:28 AM
  #1
scoringmachine
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Overhaul the Oilers

I know I should not compare Hockey to BasketBall, but I would like to know from an Oiler fan prosepctive should the Oilers do what the Toronto Raptors did before the 2006 draft?

What I mean is the Raptors fired their GM then hired a new GM. This GM picked who he believed was the leader for the team and built the team around the leader. The GM traded for players that fans never heard of to make a successful team. If the Oilers did something like that do you believe the Oilers will be consistent threat in the Northwest Division.

Also I believe the leader on the Oilers would be Ryan Smyth if the Oilers resign him in the off-season if they do not then Jason Smith would be the leader then trade for scoring, then defence and finally a good backup goalie. Do what they Flames have done which is have good scoring depth with a good goalie then build your team around that. The Flames have four good scoring power in Iginla, Huselisus, Langkow and Conroy then have good defence such as Regher, Dion P, Hamerlik and Warrener and Staurt and finally Kipper in net. The Oilers have some good scoring depth but should try to add one or two 30 goal scorers and a two or three consistent 20-25 goal scorers then build a defence that can keep the scoring forwards from being injured. Also stop blocking shots as I noticed that is how most of the Oilers are getting injured as they block a shot then they end up not playing the way they want to play do to the pain of blocking a shot which may caused other injures. By adding depth like this do you think the Oilers will be a better team?

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03-31-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
I know I should not compare Hockey to BasketBall, but I would like to know from an Oiler fan prosepctive should the Oilers do what the Toronto Raptors did before the 2006 draft?

What I mean is the Raptors fired their GM then hired a new GM. This GM picked who he believed was the leader for the team and built the team around the leader. The GM traded for players that fans never heard of to make a successful team. If the Oilers did something like that do you believe the Oilers will be consistent threat in the Northwest Division.

Also I believe the leader on the Oilers would be Ryan Smyth if the Oilers resign him in the off-season if they do not then Jason Smith would be the leader then trade for scoring, then defence and finally a good backup goalie. Do what they Flames have done which is have good scoring depth with a good goalie then build your team around that. The Flames have four good scoring power in Iginla, Huselisus, Langkow and Conroy then have good defence such as Regher, Dion P, Hamerlik and Warrener and Staurt and finally Kipper in net. The Oilers have some good scoring depth but should try to add one or two 30 goal scorers and a two or three consistent 20-25 goal scorers then build a defence that can keep the scoring forwards from being injured. Also stop blocking shots as I noticed that is how most of the Oilers are getting injured as they block a shot then they end up not playing the way they want to play do to the pain of blocking a shot which may caused other injures. By adding depth like this do you think the Oilers will be a better team?
I am a basketball fan and I don't belive the Raps GM (Colangalo) had a "complete overhaul" going. Colangalo changed a lot but both teams built around Bosh. And your Bosh Smyth comparison is, in my opinion, not good. Bosh is VERY young while Smyth is finishing his peak now. Remember, Colangelo traded CV for TJ Ford, who do we have to trade for a young puck moving D-man? Colangelo had peices to move for Rasho, TJ, Humphries and Cap space for Parker, Garbosa and Fred Jones. Who would the oilers move to add to their team? I'll also note that Colangelo had a few good peices there on the team when he got there namely Calderon and a high lottery chance which got him Bargnani.

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03-31-2007, 11:53 AM
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Screw Smyth, he isn't coming back.

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03-31-2007, 11:56 AM
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Jimmi Jenkins
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Yeah, no, we won't be doing that.

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03-31-2007, 12:03 PM
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OntOilFan
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Yeah, no, we won't be doing that.
Yeah, clearly the best idea is to keep the organizational leadership that has brought us the worst Oiler team in 15 years, nothing better than a 6th place finish in the conference, and a culture of mediocrity that has been embedded into the team.

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03-31-2007, 12:07 PM
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Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Yeah, clearly the best idea is to keep the organizational leadership that has brought us the worst Oiler team in 15 years, nothing better than a 6th place finish in the conference, and a culture of mediocrity that has been embedded into the team.
Yep, 13 of those years they didn't have an equal playing field, and 1 of the 2 year they did, they came within one game of winning it all. And your ***hole of a hero, was largely the reason that they are in the situation they are now.

Yeah, things aren't as bad as they seem, but I will admit Kevin Lowe better get some things done in the off-season, or his job will be on the line imo.


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03-31-2007, 12:10 PM
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First off we have a good back-up in Jussi. Most likely we will sign him for one year with a second year option should one of our up-coming Goaltenders aren't ready in year two.

Secondly, we don't need a major overhaul, just a few changes. If we sign a dman and trade for another and add one forward through trade of ufa signing we are right back into the fight next year. I'm not sure who those 2 dmen and the forward would be exactly(there is a lot of speculations, some good some unrealistic throughout the oilers board).

As for who to build around this team, I would have to say Hemsky. He has five more years in his contract and in about four years he could be a superstar, depending on how he develops. Add into the mix of Nilsson, Cogs, O'marha (sp) and Shremp (if he can get his defencive play worked out) and with the potential Smid has and we are a cup contender in three or four years.

I actually think that the future looks bright in the future, depending on what happens in the off season.

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03-31-2007, 12:10 PM
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Fire Lowe, its Abject Failure on his part, i've been calling him to resign since xmas.

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03-31-2007, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Yep, 13 of those years they didn't have an equal playing field, and 1 of the 2 year they did, they came within one game of winning it all. And your ***hole of a hero, was largely the reason that they are in the situation they are now.

Yeah, things aren't as bad as they seem, but I will admit Kevin Lowe better get some things done in the off-season, or his job will be on the line imo.
Chris Pronger didn't fail to get blueline help.
Chris Pronger didn't overpay for mediocre players in the off-season.
Chris Pronger didn't fumble the Ryan Smyth negotiations.
Chris Pronger didn't develop a man-crush on Toby Petersen.
Chris Pronger didn't trade MAB for a Russian national and a bag of pucks.
Chris Pronger didn't get ripped off in a trade for Chris Pronger.

To blame this season on Pronger is a cop-out.

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03-31-2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bigredoiler View Post
First off we have a good back-up in Jussi. Most likely we will sign him for one year with a second year option should one of our up-coming Goaltenders aren't ready in year two.

Secondly, we don't need a major overhaul, just a few changes. If we sign a dman and trade for another and add one forward through trade of ufa signing we are right back into the fight next year. I'm not sure who those 2 dmen and the forward would be exactly(there is a lot of speculations, some good some unrealistic throughout the oilers board).

As for who to build around this team, I would have to say Hemsky. He has five more years in his contract and in about four years he could be a superstar, depending on how he develops. Add into the mix of Nilsson, Cogs, O'marha (sp) and Shremp (if he can get his defencive play worked out) and with the potential Smid has and we are a cup contender in three or four years.


I actually think that the future looks bright in the future, depending on what happens in the off season.

I'd have to agree with your take on the situation. Although I have a feeling that atleast one of the prospects you mentioned will be involved in a trade this summer. I think building around Hemsky is a smart idea, give him the right talent to play with as well as make sure we have the right mix of grinders and backcheckers on board. We already have plenty of the latter, and a few prospects that look like they could be high talent players, but I think it would be beneficial to Hemmer if we added a talented player with a few years in the league under his belt just for the experience. Although I don't think Hemsky will ever be Captain of this team, but that is a different discussion.

I think if Lowe makes a huge splash in the off-season we could be a contender next season, if he does just so-so it may take like you said three or four years while a lot of our younger guys develop. Personally I don't really care either way, there are pros and cons to both scenarios. As long as I see the dedication from management and players alike to making this team the best they can, I am a happy fan. I personally can't wait to see what the off-season will bring.

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Old
03-31-2007, 12:42 PM
  #11
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Chris Pronger didn't fail to get blueline help.
Chris Pronger didn't overpay for mediocre players in the off-season.
Chris Pronger didn't fumble the Ryan Smyth negotiations.
Chris Pronger didn't develop a man-crush on Toby Petersen.
Chris Pronger didn't trade MAB for a Russian national and a bag of pucks.
Chris Pronger didn't get ripped off in a trade for Chris Pronger.

To blame this season on Pronger is a cop-out.
Pronger was a coward and wanted out with no reason. He forced Kevin Lowe to trade him. People kill Lowe for not making the right move, not hanging on to him, blah, blah, blah, but the blame for it falls on the gutless wonder Chris Pronger for having no balls and no heart.


Edit: Pronger was the Precursor to all these other problems. You don't need defense if Pronger don't puss out, you don't need to find a PP QB if Pronger doesn't puss out, MAB continues to get sheltered if Pronger doesn't puss, you have no choice but to take what you can get for him, because you have to trade him. Everything this season doesn't solely fall on him, but he put Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish and the rest of the Edmonton Oilers behind the eightball because he had to he a d***he bag.


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Old
03-31-2007, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
I know I should not compare Hockey to BasketBall, but I would like to know from an Oiler fan prosepctive should the Oilers do what the Toronto Raptors did before the 2006 draft?

What I mean is the Raptors fired their GM then hired a new GM. This GM picked who he believed was the leader for the team and built the team around the leader. The GM traded for players that fans never heard of to make a successful team. If the Oilers did something like that do you believe the Oilers will be consistent threat in the Northwest Division.

Also I believe the leader on the Oilers would be Ryan Smyth if the Oilers resign him in the off-season if they do not then Jason Smith would be the leader then trade for scoring, then defence and finally a good backup goalie. Do what they Flames have done which is have good scoring depth with a good goalie then build your team around that. The Flames have four good scoring power in Iginla, Huselisus, Langkow and Conroy then have good defence such as Regher, Dion P, Hamerlik and Warrener and Staurt and finally Kipper in net. The Oilers have some good scoring depth but should try to add one or two 30 goal scorers and a two or three consistent 20-25 goal scorers then build a defence that can keep the scoring forwards from being injured. Also stop blocking shots as I noticed that is how most of the Oilers are getting injured as they block a shot then they end up not playing the way they want to play do to the pain of blocking a shot which may caused other injures. By adding depth like this do you think the Oilers will be a better team?
Arghhh. For one, the Raptors had a complete joke of a GM...think Mike Millbury bad. Because of PERFECT circumstances, they were able to hire one of the greatest minds in the game in Bryan Colangelo. The only reason this came about was because Jerry Colangelo (Bryan's Dad) was exploring selling the Phoenix Suns, the Raptors had huge amounts of cap space coming in the offseason, and were likely to get a top 5 pick.

Secondly, Colangelo didn't trade for those players; he signed them out of European markets, and some of those teams (Benetton, Maccabi) are on par with some of the lower tier NBA teams. Want proof? Go back to the 05 preseason when Maccabi Tel Aviv beat the Raptors. Also, it's not like these guys were complete darkhorse picks. Garbajosa was the IBN player of the year and Parker was a Euroleague MVP. Something like this really wouldn't be possible in hockey as all the good Euro veterans are already in the league.

Third...the Raptors were able to do this because of capspace. In the NBA a terrible player with an gigantic expiring contract has almost as much value as a fringe star with a similar contract. IIRC the Raptors had almost 20 mil coming off the books last season so it was a special circumstance, and certainly not something that happens every offseason.

I'm not even gonna get into the Oilers adding two 30 goal scorers and two-three consisten 25+ goal scorers. I'm pretty sure every team in the league would love to do that.

Lastly, blocked shots are a key staple to winning. I don't remember who posted this, but the top 3 teams in blocked shots in last years playoffs were Edmonton, Carolina and Buffalo. Definitely not a coincidence.

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Old
03-31-2007, 12:44 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Pronger was a coward and wanted out with no reason. He forced Kevin Lowe to trade him. People kill Lowe for not making the right move, not hanging on to him, blah, blah, blah, but the blame for it falls on the gutless wonder Chris Pronger for having no balls and no heart.
He had a reason, we just didn't know it. And no, contrary to what Oiler fans would love to believe, just being a fan of the team doesn't entitle you to the details of a player's personal life.

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Old
03-31-2007, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Chris Pronger didn't fail to get blueline help.
Chris Pronger didn't overpay for mediocre players in the off-season.
Chris Pronger didn't fumble the Ryan Smyth negotiations.
Chris Pronger didn't develop a man-crush on Toby Petersen.
Chris Pronger didn't trade MAB for a Russian national and a bag of pucks.
Chris Pronger didn't get ripped off in a trade for Chris Pronger.

To blame this season on Pronger is a cop-out.

Chris Pronger didn't injure Hemsky's shoulder - knocking him out for 18 games.
Chris Pronger didn't concuss Stoll, knocking him out for the season.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Moreau's shoulder, knocking him out for 70+ games this season
Chris Pronger didn't injure Hedja's shoulder, prematurely ending his season.
Chris Pronger didn't concuss Gilbert, knocking him out for more than a dozen games his callup.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Roy's shoulder, knocking him out after his callup.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Staios' knee, requiring surgery.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Tjarquist's public bone, ending his season

Adding to the other things Pronger didn't do, he didn't plan for a rebuild, that should have been obvious to anyone who witnessed his trade to Anaheim.

Blaming anyone for this season is pointless, but if you want to blame this on someone - no question in my mind - it's Hemsky's fault.

If only he wasn't 22.

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03-31-2007, 12:53 PM
  #15
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Arghhh. For one, the Raptors had a complete joke of a GM...think Mike Millbury bad.
Oh come on. Babcock was bad but he probably wasn't that horrible. I'd give that Isiah any day of the week. At the very least, you can credit Babcock with the signing of Jose.

Basketball analogy to hockey: hmm... I don't think I've ever seen that on this board before.

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03-31-2007, 01:19 PM
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scoringmachine
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I know comparing The Oilers to the Toronto Raptors (NBA) was not a good idea.
I am not an Oiler Fan, but I just think that the Oilers have to trade for two d-man and maybe two good scoring forwards to beable to compete in the Northwest division and those players have to beable to play MacTavish style of hockey. The Oilers relied on Ryan Smyth for all there leadership and most of the scoring and when he got injured then traded the Oilers started playing lousy hockey. The Oilers need two maybe three players to help motivate the team incase one of the leaders are injured. Example with Smyth injured the Oilers had no one to provide leadership. The Captain of the team is the leader of the team which in this case is Jason Smith and if someone like Hemksy can be the backup leader he can motivate the team everytime Jason Smith cannot play in a game then on day he may become captain of the team. For example the Flames liked how Iginla motivated the team so they convinced the GM to make him Captain and I believe Hemsky can be that same type of leader if he wants to take that role. If Hemsky can show leadership and progress into a consistent 15 -25 goal scorer or a good playmaker then he can bring good leadership for the team. Then surround Hemsky with good players like the Flames did with Iginla, Penguins did with Crosby, Rangers did with Jagr and Dallas did with Modano. They do not have to be well know players as long as they can fit into the Oilers system and I know this will be a two to three year process. Finally I will give MacTavish one more year as coach of the Oilers and if he fails to lead the team to the playoff again or end up losing in the first round I would like the Oilers to have a new coach. Look at Vancouver they are doing better with a new coach then they did with Marc Crawford as coach eventhough Crawford was a good coach. Most bloggers will mention that Vancouver has Luongo in net that is why they are doing, well that is right but even the best goalies have off years look at Brodeur when he won the cup in 1995 the next year he flopped and could not help his team get into the playoff. Since I am not a Oilers Fan please give me some idea of what type of players the Oilers should trade for and who they should trade that is currently on the Oilers team or are UFA or RFA and who should they keep that is currently on the team or UFA or RFA.

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03-31-2007, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hemmingway View Post
Chris Pronger didn't injure Hemsky's shoulder - knocking him out for 18 games.
Chris Pronger didn't concuss Stoll, knocking him out for the season.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Moreau's shoulder, knocking him out for 70+ games this season
Chris Pronger didn't injure Hedja's shoulder, prematurely ending his season.
Chris Pronger didn't concuss Gilbert, knocking him out for more than a dozen games his callup.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Roy's shoulder, knocking him out after his callup.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Staios' knee, requiring surgery.
Chris Pronger didn't injure Tjarquist's public bone, ending his season

Adding to the other things Pronger didn't do, he didn't plan for a rebuild, that should have been obvious to anyone who witnessed his trade to Anaheim.

Blaming anyone for this season is pointless, but if you want to blame this on someone - no question in my mind - it's Hemsky's fault.

If only he wasn't 22.
Acctually it was a concussion.

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03-31-2007, 01:50 PM
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AS far as I know

The Raptors wish they had the post season success the Oilers have had in the past 20 years.

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03-31-2007, 02:10 PM
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Oh come on. Babcock was bad but he probably wasn't that horrible. I'd give that Isiah any day of the week. At the very least, you can credit Babcock with the signing of Jose.

Basketball analogy to hockey: hmm... I don't think I've ever seen that on this board before.
I guess I can somewhat agree with this. Babcock had a 3 year plan and it's unfortunate that he got fired half way through. I'm not convinced that the Raptors would be in nearly the same position that they're in right now if he was still with the team though.

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The Raptors wish they had the post season success the Oilers have had in the past 20 years.
Yeah because while we were winning cups in the 80s, the Raptors were really sucking it up Look, the Raptors were a shot away from the Eastern conference finals back in 01, while we were still struggling to make the playoffs year in year out. Both teams have pretty much sucked since the 90s, and similarly, both have had one good run in the playoffs. Obviously last year was ten times more amazing than anything the Raptors have done since they've come into the league, but they're really coming up and it's no coincidence that people are finally starting to talk about them.

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03-31-2007, 02:27 PM
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I guess I can somewhat agree with this. Babcock had a 3 year plan and it's unfortunate that he got fired half way through. I'm not convinced that the Raptors would be in nearly the same position that they're in right now if he was still with the team though.



Yeah because while we were winning cups in the 80s, the Raptors were really sucking it up Look, the Raptors were a shot away from the Eastern conference finals back in 01, while we were still struggling to make the playoffs year in year out. Both teams have pretty much sucked since the 90s, and similarly, both have had one good run in the playoffs. Obviously last year was ten times more amazing than anything the Raptors have done since they've come into the league, but they're really coming up and it's no coincidence that people are finally starting to talk about them.
I have often wondered where the term "sucked" came from and how it managed to adopt such a negative connotation.

Did it derive from the "in the toilet" phrase that emeged from...well...the stuff that goes in the toilet? When you flush it "sucks" the water and other stuff down. Is that why "they blow" didn't really catch on?

Did you know that if you don't close the lid that is exactly what happens? The force of the flush causes the stuff in there to "blow" a fine mist into your bathroom and right into your face as your leaning in to push down the toilet thingy.

Anyway, I like where the team is headed. I for one was getting tired of the old fight for eighth every year. Short term pain for long term gain. *I like some cliches.*


In the immortal words of the most loyal Oiler fan I know SCB...

Go Oilers Go! (Just not so much this week)

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03-31-2007, 02:33 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
I know I should not compare Hockey to BasketBall, but I would like to know from an Oiler fan prosepctive should the Oilers do what the Toronto Raptors did before the 2006 draft?
It was a somewhat of a good comparsion, but basketball team is easier to overhaul, just because of the roster number. Its pretty common for NBA teams (like PHX) to consistently play only 8 players in a game. In hockey, you got like 20 skaters in a game. Basically what im trying to say is...its waayyyy easier to run a business with 8-10 employees compared to 20 or so.

Plus, Colangelo is a great GM before he arrived in T.O, u have to get a GREAT GM in order to totally overhaul the Oilers (i.e. Burke).

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03-31-2007, 02:37 PM
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The Raptors wish they had the post season success the Oilers have had in the past 20 years.
Uhmm...they won the same amount of championships since the birth of the Raptors, unless 'post season success' means somethingelse to you.

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03-31-2007, 02:38 PM
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Acctually it was a concussion.
Sorry.

Cut-n-paste from an injury sheet. There were so many, I must have cut from the one above or below.


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03-31-2007, 02:40 PM
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Ya but BC was considered to be one of the top Basketball people in the world when he got hired. It was a pretty easy decision.

Maybe if Ken Holland is looking for a job that might work, if not I don't think that idea will work. BC also won the draft lottery which was a big bonus and signing Garbo wasn't hard because he already had his best friend Calderon on the team.

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03-31-2007, 02:49 PM
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[QUOTE=JDubs;8714171]Arghhh. For one, the Raptors had a complete joke of a GM...think Mike Millbury bad. Because of PERFECT circumstances, they were able to hire one of the greatest minds in the game in Bryan Colangelo. The only reason this came about was because Jerry Colangelo (Bryan's Dad) was exploring selling the Phoenix Suns, the Raptors had huge amounts of cap space coming in the offseason, and were likely to get a top 5 pick.

QUOTE]

Actually, I disagree. The Raptors are a very good comparison. They had a likely top 5 pick, so do the Oilers. They had some cap space (not a huge amount) and the oilers have about 10 million to spend in the off-season. The Raptors had assests to trade for players??? Please give me a break. They traded Bonner and William for Nestorovic(Sp) and Rafeal Arujo (sp) for Humphries. The Oilers are in a way better situation asset wise then the Raptors. They Raptors signed some European league free-agents but not only did they make the right choices, every other team could have signed those free agents, not unlike what will happen in the NHL in summer.

So what do the Oilers have to do to copy the Raptors?? Make good decisions. As much as every one wants to bash K.Lowe for not dealing for a d-man, would you have wanted him to deal Chorney and a 1st for Zhitnik? (or something comparable) You have to still make good decisions and when there is no one available and your team is not playing well, you have to regroup. (which is essentially what the Raptors did last year)

So here is my Oiler - like Raptors - Blueprint
Sign Grebeshkov
Sign Timmonen APPROX 10 - 12 MILLION
Sign Smyth

Trade (and I would up this offer as needed)
S. Horcoff, A. Cogliano, Choice of Deslaurier/Dubnyk, choice of M. Greene/T. Gilbert
For

V. Lecalvier

Now just like in the Raptors situation, you have to get these free Agents to want to come to Edmonton and T-bay to want to trade Lecalvier, but if you make smart decisions, the Oilers can rebound and be a good team next year.

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