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Old
03-31-2007, 02:50 PM
  #26
Soundwave
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Nah, I'd rather stick with Lowe. Yes, he had a bad year this season, but his hand was forced into a lot of situations we didn't want to be in.

Secondly, Bryan Colangelo was already an executive of the year in Phoenix, and came into a situation in Toronto where they already had a young budding All-Star in Bosh, then tanked that initial half-season to get the no.1 overall draft choice (Bargnani). He did make a bold move with the trade for Ford, but many of the pieces were already in place.

With the Oilers situation, it's very different. If you bring in a new GM now, they're going to have a "grace period" of 1-2 years before they really start to settle in IMO. Do we want to go through that again?

Lowe's been here through the bad times, the good times (last year), and no GM will be as motivated to bring this team back to where it was in spring 2006 than Kevin Lowe.

You guys are fans, but the 2006 Oilers were Kevin Lowe's baby. He built that team, was the architect, he engineered it all. No one IMO feels the burn of this season more than he does. He will redeem himself in my opinion.

And Tampa is not trading Lecavalier. Not unless they get an absolutely monsterous return. You don't throw away 50 goal scorers. If anyone is moved it'll be Richards or St. Louis.

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03-31-2007, 02:54 PM
  #27
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The comparissons

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubs View Post
I guess I can somewhat agree with this. Babcock had a 3 year plan and it's unfortunate that he got fired half way through. I'm not convinced that the Raptors would be in nearly the same position that they're in right now if he was still with the team though.



Yeah because while we were winning cups in the 80s, the Raptors were really sucking it up Look, the Raptors were a shot away from the Eastern conference finals back in 01, while we were still struggling to make the playoffs year in year out. Both teams have pretty much sucked since the 90s, and similarly, both have had one good run in the playoffs. Obviously last year was ten times more amazing than anything the Raptors have done since they've come into the league, but they're really coming up and it's no coincidence that people are finally starting to talk about them.

are spurious at the best.

its like when people suggest theOilers should emulate the penguins.

Its like a gambler playing craps.

How come I could roll a seven three times in a row and now I cant do it.

Rediculous.

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03-31-2007, 03:07 PM
  #28
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An analogy to the Carolina Hurricanes is probably more apt. They made it to the Finals in 2002 in a Cinderella run, tanked the following year, got a high 1st round pick, selected Staal, retooled, and a few years later won the Cup with a younger core paired with a few vets.

That's probably the exact situation Lowe is looking at.

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Old
03-31-2007, 03:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01 View Post
Actually, I disagree. The Raptors are a very good comparison. They had a likely top 5 pick, so do the Oilers. They had some cap space (not a huge amount) and the oilers have about 10 million to spend in the off-season. The Raptors had assests to trade for players??? Please give me a break. They traded Bonner and William for Nestorovic(Sp) and Rafeal Arujo (sp) for Humphries. The Oilers are in a way better situation asset wise then the Raptors. They Raptors signed some European league free-agents but not only did they make the right choices, every other team could have signed those free agents, not unlike what will happen in the NHL in summer.

So what do the Oilers have to do to copy the Raptors?? Make good decisions. As much as every one wants to bash K.Lowe for not dealing for a d-man, would you have wanted him to deal Chorney and a 1st for Zhitnik? (or something comparable) You have to still make good decisions and when there is no one available and your team is not playing well, you have to regroup. (which is essentially what the Raptors did last year)

So here is my Oiler - like Raptors - Blueprint
Sign Grebeshkov
Sign Timmonen APPROX 10 - 12 MILLION
Sign Smyth

Trade (and I would up this offer as needed)
S. Horcoff, A. Cogliano, Choice of Deslaurier/Dubnyk, choice of M. Greene/T. Gilbert
For

V. Lecalvier

Now just like in the Raptors situation, you have to get these free Agents to want to come to Edmonton and T-bay to want to trade Lecalvier, but if you make smart decisions, the Oilers can rebound and be a good team next year.
The only similarity that the Raptors and Oilers share are the two ones you mentioned; having a top 5 pick and capspace. Here's where your arguments falter:

1. Cap space. Everyone in the NHL will likely have cap space this offseason, whereas in the NBA only about 3-5 teams AT MOST have cap space every offseason. This is why expiring contracts are so valuable and why having 10 mil in cap space in the NHL has no where near the value of having 10 mil of cap space in the NBA. This is because of the luxury tax cap system the NBA uses...I'll get into this in more detail later if you want

2. European Free Agency. Every team in the NBA had a shot at Garbajosa and Parker, but in reality the Raptors had the inside track on them. Not only because of the type of city Toronto is, but because Colangelo hired Benetton's GM as his assistant GM, Garbo's best friend played on the Raptors (Jose Calderon) and various other factors. Not to mention that because of the way basketball is set up, there are a lot more talented players playing outside of the NBA than in hockey.

3. Assets. The Raptors did have assets to move, namely Charlie V. I love how you failed to mention that. Not only that, but Nesterovic has been a key cog at C, and does a lot more than the stats show.

The Oilers cannot emulate the Raptors offseason because of a billion factors, but most of all (as someone mentioned) basketball has 12 roster spots with a playing rotation of about 8 players. You will never have the turnaround that an NBA team can pull off in one offseason

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04-01-2007, 01:49 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubs View Post
The only similarity that the Raptors and Oilers share are the two ones you mentioned; having a top 5 pick and capspace. Here's where your arguments falter:

1. Cap space. Everyone in the NHL will likely have cap space this offseason, whereas in the NBA only about 3-5 teams AT MOST have cap space every offseason. This is why expiring contracts are so valuable and why having 10 mil in cap space in the NHL has no where near the value of having 10 mil of cap space in the NBA. This is because of the luxury tax cap system the NBA uses...I'll get into this in more detail later if you want

2. European Free Agency. Every team in the NBA had a shot at Garbajosa and Parker, but in reality the Raptors had the inside track on them. Not only because of the type of city Toronto is, but because Colangelo hired Benetton's GM as his assistant GM, Garbo's best friend played on the Raptors (Jose Calderon) and various other factors. Not to mention that because of the way basketball is set up, there are a lot more talented players playing outside of the NBA than in hockey.

3. Assets. The Raptors did have assets to move, namely Charlie V. I love how you failed to mention that. Not only that, but Nesterovic has been a key cog at C, and does a lot more than the stats show.

The Oilers cannot emulate the Raptors offseason because of a billion factors, but most of all (as someone mentioned) basketball has 12 roster spots with a playing rotation of about 8 players. You will never have the turnaround that an NBA team can pull off in one offseason
I see where your going with the Cap space argument and I agree that the NBA is a totally different league than the NBA but I would still argue if you use the cap space wisely, and make smart trades, you can have a similar turn around. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the Raptors had the inside track on Parker, Garbojosa, but then I ask, why do the Oilers not have people in place that are respected and liked enough in Hockey that players want to come here to play?? And why not trade for Grebeshkov because he is best friends with Datsyuk whom you want to sign in the off season??(I have no idea if this is really true - just hypothetically) This kind of stuff happens all the time in every sport. (Bluejays with Arnsberg getting Burnett to come over)

Charlie V. was no more an asset than a lot of the players we have, and I love the way you forgot to mention he was basically their only asset. (other than CB4 and the #1 pick which your not going to trade). We have tons of assets including young cheap players, prospects, draft picks, etc. We are way ahead of the Raptors in that area. And I never said that Nestorovic hasn't been great for the Raptors (I have been pushing for them to acquire him for a while), just that they didn't have to give up anything asset wise to get him because of the situation San Antonio was in with Cap Space.

For me it comes down to making smart decisions and getting Free Agents to see your vision. Even though the Raptors had loads of cap space, the only NBA free Agent they could get was Fred Jones. I know there are a lot more teams in the NHL with Cap space than in the NBA but you still have to get the player to want to play in your city - exactly like in the NBA and you have to make smart trades - just like in the NBA.

By the way, I love what the Raptors are doing and hope they go a ways in the Playoffs.

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Old
04-01-2007, 04:04 AM
  #31
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OntOilFan just ignores significant posts and arguments against what he says, and focuses on one sentence or statement that he feels he can pick apart.

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04-01-2007, 04:09 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
OntOilFan just ignores significant posts and arguments against what he says, and focuses on one sentence or statement that he feels he can pick apart.
True. he is not balanced in his views so he loses credibility in that sense.

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Old
04-01-2007, 04:10 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemmingway View Post
Chris Pronger didn't injure Tjarquist's public bone, ending his season
Thats not what I heard

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Old
04-01-2007, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Just to add to the obvious, this season's disater is entirely attributable to Lowe. As I have said in many other posts, his blunderings have been almost endless. They started with the utter capitulation to Pronger. There is no compelling argument why Pronger's demands had to accomodate unless the Oilers got equivalent "present value". Lowe settled for garbage. I point I have made repeatedly over the past 4 months.
Add to the the mistakes of over paying for mediocrity. Inaction in November and early December, leading to a total write off of a season. Do Oilers fans want a general manager who capitulates?
Then the ridiculous trade of Bergeron for nothing. Why is that Lowe's entire modus operandi is subtration? Again no sense of NPV.
Then the Smyth fiasco.
The last 20 games have been close the worst effort by any professional franchise in sport that I can recall over the past 10 years, save perhaps the Oakland Raiders this past year in the NFL.
If this Board could have roused itself unanimously to call for Lowe's firing after the Smyth fiasco, could any thing have unfolded worse?
Realism. The Raptor analogy only works if you have a competent general manager. We don't.
Fire him tomorrow morning.

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04-01-2007, 02:27 PM
  #35
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
Just to add to the obvious, this season's disater is entirely attributable to Lowe. As I have said in many other posts, his blunderings have been almost endless. They started with the utter capitulation to Pronger. There is no compelling argument why Pronger's demands had to accomodate unless the Oilers got equivalent "present value". Lowe settled for garbage. I point I have made repeatedly over the past 4 months.
Add to the the mistakes of over paying for mediocrity. Inaction in November and early December, leading to a total write off of a season. Do Oilers fans want a general manager who capitulates?
Then the ridiculous trade of Bergeron for nothing. Why is that Lowe's entire modus operandi is subtration? Again no sense of NPV.
Then the Smyth fiasco.
The last 20 games have been close the worst effort by any professional franchise in sport that I can recall over the past 10 years, save perhaps the Oakland Raiders this past year in the NFL.
If this Board could have roused itself unanimously to call for Lowe's firing after the Smyth fiasco, could any thing have unfolded worse?
Realism. The Raptor analogy only works if you have a competent general manager. We don't.
Fire him tomorrow morning.
But you hate Lowe, regardless, so that's kind of biasis isn't it?

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04-01-2007, 02:32 PM
  #36
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No bias, just look at the facts.
Watch this afternoon's game if you want more corroboration.

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04-01-2007, 02:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
No bias, just look at the facts.
Watch this afternoon's game if you want more corroboration.
Ok, because It's Kevin Lowe's fault the majority of the team's veterans are out with injuries? It's Kevin Lowe's fault that Pronger is a ***** and put the Oilers behind the eight ball to start the year? It's Kevin Lowe's fault that Ryan Smyth and Don Meehan felt that $5.4M over 5 years wasn't enough?

Give you're head a shake, he's not getting fire, nor should he at this point. If you don't like either stop crying and get over it, or go join another team's board. We get it you're upset, we all are with the way the season has gone, it's not all K-Lowe's fault, not by a long shot.

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Old
04-01-2007, 03:39 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
Just to add to the obvious, this season's disater is entirely attributable to Lowe. As I have said in many other posts, his blunderings have been almost endless. They started with the utter capitulation to Pronger. There is no compelling argument why Pronger's demands had to accomodate unless the Oilers got equivalent "present value". Lowe settled for garbage. I point I have made repeatedly over the past 4 months.
Add to the the mistakes of over paying for mediocrity. Inaction in November and early December, leading to a total write off of a season. Do Oilers fans want a general manager who capitulates?
Then the ridiculous trade of Bergeron for nothing. Why is that Lowe's entire modus operandi is subtration? Again no sense of NPV.
Then the Smyth fiasco.
The last 20 games have been close the worst effort by any professional franchise in sport that I can recall over the past 10 years, save perhaps the Oakland Raiders this past year in the NFL.
If this Board could have roused itself unanimously to call for Lowe's firing after the Smyth fiasco, could any thing have unfolded worse?
Realism. The Raptor analogy only works if you have a competent general manager. We don't.
Fire him tomorrow morning.
Do you use copy and paste to post this crap every day? It sure seems like it, Oilers hater.

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Old
04-01-2007, 04:09 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky01 View Post
I see where your going with the Cap space argument and I agree that the NBA is a totally different league than the NBA but I would still argue if you use the cap space wisely, and make smart trades, you can have a similar turn around. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the Raptors had the inside track on Parker, Garbojosa, but then I ask, why do the Oilers not have people in place that are respected and liked enough in Hockey that players want to come here to play?? And why not trade for Grebeshkov because he is best friends with Datsyuk whom you want to sign in the off season??(I have no idea if this is really true - just hypothetically) This kind of stuff happens all the time in every sport. (Bluejays with Arnsberg getting Burnett to come over)

Charlie V. was no more an asset than a lot of the players we have, and I love the way you forgot to mention he was basically their only asset. (other than CB4 and the #1 pick which your not going to trade). We have tons of assets including young cheap players, prospects, draft picks, etc. We are way ahead of the Raptors in that area. And I never said that Nestorovic hasn't been great for the Raptors (I have been pushing for them to acquire him for a while), just that they didn't have to give up anything asset wise to get him because of the situation San Antonio was in with Cap Space.

For me it comes down to making smart decisions and getting Free Agents to see your vision. Even though the Raptors had loads of cap space, the only NBA free Agent they could get was Fred Jones. I know there are a lot more teams in the NHL with Cap space than in the NBA but you still have to get the player to want to play in your city - exactly like in the NBA and you have to make smart trades - just like in the NBA.

By the way, I love what the Raptors are doing and hope they go a ways in the Playoffs.
I agree, with enough capspace you can turn around a team in one offseason, even in the NHL. I'd also have to agree on the Oilers not really having too many connections to big name FA's...I mean the only big name we got this offseason was Sykora and ironically enough he was very familiar with Edmonton and I think his agent is based here?

Anyways, I would have to disagree with the Charlie V thing. He's had a pretty bad season this far (mostly due to injuries) but last year, at that time, he was coming off an amazing year. He averaged 13 and 6, didn't look as lost defensively as many said he would, was runner up to ROY, etc. He was a blue chip PF and in my opinion one of the best tradeable assets in the league. We have noone near that kind of value in our system other than Hemsky (and maybe Stoll) but they are moreso our Chris Bosh's. I'd agree with the draft picks thing though. I could really see us pulling off something big on draft day if someone falls to us and a team below us is dead set on him.

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04-01-2007, 09:35 PM
  #40
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When I started this thread I wanted to know what do you bloggers believe the Oilers need to do in order to be competitive next season. My Opinion

1. Jason Smith does not have much leadership skill as he could not motivate his
team when Ryan Smyth was injured and when Ryan was traded meaning the
Oilers were playing not so good hockey.

2. I think that Hemsky if he really wants he can be the next leader for this team.
Just by listening to him talk to the media he sounds like a player who is not afraid
to speak his mind about the problems with the team and in few years he
could become captian of the team if he provides good leadership skills.

3. Kevin Lowe needs to talk to MacTavish and his assitant coaches and figure out
what problems they had this season and what they believe is the key ingredients
to having a competitve team for next season. For example fans are saying that
the Oilers should get better defencemen and maybe two scoring forwards with
Smyth gone and Stolls future in doubt they need players who can score.

4. I am not sure but I think the Oilers have two picks in the first round one of their
own and one from the Smyth Trade. They should draft a solid goalie and a
defencemen. The Islander gave the Oilers some good forwards, but they need a
good defencemen and a goalie for the future. After the first round they should
get another defencemen and a couple of forwards to use the rest of their picks.

5. With Smyth gone the Oilers need to quicky decide who they want for first line,
and second line. Most team has a star player who normally will be on the first line
but the Oilers really do not have a star player. In Vancouver you think Nasalund,
Calgary Iginla, Minnesota Goborik, Colorado Sakic. For the Oilers no one really
jumps out. For next season when Stoll comes back from injury I see him and
Hemsky and Horcoff on the first line with Smith and Staios on Defence. Second
line I would see Petr Sykora, Fernando Pisani and Petr Nedved with Ladislav Smid
and Jan Hejda/Danny Syvret on defence.

6. The Oilers need to play a more defensive game to compete in the Northwest
division as Calgary and Vancouver play that style Minnesota trying. Also hope
that Rollie can have a good season between the pipes to help the Oilers get into
the playoffs.

This just my opinion about the Oiler as I am a Flames fan so when you read what I wrote for number 5 you may not like line combinations I made as I do not know how some of these players performed this season so I made some guesses on line combinations from what I was told from friends who are Oiler Fans.


Last edited by scoringmachine: 04-01-2007 at 09:48 PM.
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Old
04-01-2007, 09:37 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
When I started this thread I wanted to know what do you bloggers believe the Oilers need to do in order to be competitive next season. My Opinion

1. Jason Smith does not have much leadership skill as he could not motivate his
team when Ryan Smyth was injured and when Ryan was traded meaning the
Oilers were playing not so good hockey.
And we're done.

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04-01-2007, 11:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth2Hemsky View Post
Do you use copy and paste to post this crap every day? It sure seems like it, Oilers hater.
ohh the irony..

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Old
04-02-2007, 12:19 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
When I started this thread I wanted to know what do you bloggers believe the Oilers need to do in order to be competitive next season. My Opinion

1. Jason Smith does not have much leadership skill as he could not motivate his
team when Ryan Smyth was injured and when Ryan was traded meaning the
Oilers were playing not so good hockey.

2. I think that Hemsky if he really wants he can be the next leader for this team.
Just by listening to him talk to the media he sounds like a player who is not afraid
to speak his mind about the problems with the team and in few years he
could become captian of the team if he provides good leadership skills.

3. Kevin Lowe needs to talk to MacTavish and his assitant coaches and figure out
what problems they had this season and what they believe is the key ingredients
to having a competitve team for next season. For example fans are saying that
the Oilers should get better defencemen and maybe two scoring forwards with
Smyth gone and Stolls future in doubt they need players who can score.

4. I am not sure but I think the Oilers have two picks in the first round one of their
own and one from the Smyth Trade. They should draft a solid goalie and a
defencemen. The Islander gave the Oilers some good forwards, but they need a
good defencemen and a goalie for the future. After the first round they should
get another defencemen and a couple of forwards to use the rest of their picks.

5. With Smyth gone the Oilers need to quicky decide who they want for first line,
and second line. Most team has a star player who normally will be on the first line
but the Oilers really do not have a star player. In Vancouver you think Nasalund,
Calgary Iginla, Minnesota Goborik, Colorado Sakic. For the Oilers no one really
jumps out. For next season when Stoll comes back from injury I see him and
Hemsky and Horcoff on the first line with Smith and Staios on Defence. Second
line I would see Petr Sykora, Fernando Pisani and Petr Nedved with Ladislav Smid
and Jan Hejda/Danny Syvret on defence.

6. The Oilers need to play a more defensive game to compete in the Northwest
division as Calgary and Vancouver play that style Minnesota trying. Also hope
that Rollie can have a good season between the pipes to help the Oilers get into
the playoffs.

This just my opinion about the Oiler as I am a Flames fan so when you read what I wrote for number 5 you may not like line combinations I made as I do not know how some of these players performed this season so I made some guesses on line combinations from what I was told from friends who are Oiler Fans.

What are you, 12?

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04-02-2007, 09:24 AM
  #44
scoringmachine
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oilfan22 I am not 12 years-old for your information I am only 9 years-old and if you want to cry that I gave a terrible blog then go right ahead. I would like to see you try to come up with a solution about how to fix the Oilers problems before you critize me.

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04-02-2007, 09:49 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoringmachine View Post
oilfan22 I am not 12 years-old for your information I am only 9 years-old and if you want to cry that I gave a terrible blog then go right ahead. I would like to see you try to come up with a solution about how to fix the Oilers problems before you critize me.
You don't just "Fix" things. This isn't NHL'07 where you can just go out and get that one or two people and "Fix" your team's problems.

Kevin Lowe needs to have a strong draft, and some luck (because there's some luck in every draft), and get young players who have a future with this team. He has to some how acquire a #1 or #1a defenseman. Be it through free-agency with guys like Timonen, Markov or Rafalski, or through a trade with guys like Redden, or others.

He needs to fill some holes in the roster, add a forward, add a defenseman or two. He's going to have to resign some of his UFAs and all of his RFAs. He needs to see some of the kids take a step foward and prove they belong on this team, and he needs some guys, specifically Torres and Lupul (if the don't get dealt), to regain their form from years past.

There is only so much he can do, at a certain point it becomes about the players and what they do. That said he does need to get somethings done in the summer, or he will be in a position to be let go.

And for the record, Jason Smith couldn't do more as a captain. He can't make the guys score, he can't make the guys not take stupid penalties and he can't make the guys care about their games. He can only lead by example on and off the ice.

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04-03-2007, 01:05 AM
  #46
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People think I was taking about a "quick fix" when I asked how to make the Oilers become a respectable franchise again.

There are no "quick fix" for any sports team in the world but there are little things that franchises can do to help their team become more respectable.

The trade the Oilers made with the Islander, the Oilers recieved good prospect in Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra and a good Russian player. They also have Robbie Schremp and some good prospect that played this season with the Oilers. Kevin Lowe should look at video of all the prospect that he believes could make the Oilers roster next season. Other may have to wait a few years. Once Kevin Lowe has an idea he can talk to MacTavish on what type of players he feels the team needs to succeed that way they can work on developing the players they more than likely will use in the 2007/2008 season.

Also with Ryan Smyth gone the Oilers need someone to fill the void that Ryan Smyth absent creates. Most bloggers want Vinny L. from the Lightning which I would like but think will cost the Oilers too much. Basically the Oilers need to look for players who can fit the Oilers Style of hockey and not just players who are great on another team, maybe take a page out of the Flames book and maybe take an unknown player from a team and see if that player can succeed in the Oilers style of hockey. Then during the Draft the Oilers should pick first a good Forward the second pick a good d-man then third pick a goalie for the future.

Basically doing little things like this can help you achieve the goal of making the playoffs.

Also about Jason Smith he is not a bad Captain he does little things to help the team but Ryan Smyth was the guy that players used for motivation now the Oilers need to find a new person to rally around.

Finally if you were the G.M of the Oilers what changes would you make to help the Oilers try to make the playoffs next season?

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