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JF Jacques ... could he make history?

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Old
03-31-2007, 11:46 AM
  #1
OntOilFan
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JF Jacques ... could he make history?

I'm hoping someone here is an NHL stat nut who can somehow dig up this obscure record, but what is the record for consecutive pointless streak to start a career?

JF Jacques now has zero points in 44 games.

Of course, that begs another obvious question, what the hell is he doing on this team? 44 games without a point for a rookie enforcer would be understandable, but isn't this guy supposed to have some offensive talent?

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03-31-2007, 11:50 AM
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Heavy Dee
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I'm hoping someone here is an NHL stat nut who can somehow dig up this obscure record, but what is the record for consecutive pointless streak to start a career?

JF Jacques now has zero points in 44 games.

Of course, that begs another obvious question, what the hell is he doing on this team? 44 games without a point for a rookie enforcer would be understandable, but isn't this guy supposed to have some offensive talent?
too funny...Iam sure he must be getting close as a forward...iam sure there have been some defensemen who have gone a lot longer.

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03-31-2007, 11:50 AM
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I have laughed every game this kid has played for us this year. He doesn't belong in the NHL. At least not now. I don't get why he has gotten so much time to do something, he continues to do nothing but yet he stays while guys with more talent than him continued to stay in the minors. I really hope with our own AHL team next season that a lot of things in regards to our young guys will be handled differently.

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03-31-2007, 11:54 AM
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I have laughed every game this kid has played for us this year. He doesn't belong in the NHL. At least not now. I don't get why he has gotten so much time to do something, he continues to do nothing but yet he stays while guys with more talent than him continued to stay in the minors. I really hope with our own AHL team next season that a lot of things in regards to our young guys will be handled differently.
Jacques is seriously weird... he looks great in the AHL, hitting and scoring... has the size for the NHL, but can't do squat in the NHL yet. He doesn't even hit (which by the way, is a big part of his game... I would guess as much as his scoring).

Hopefully he can get going in the coming years...

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03-31-2007, 11:55 AM
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I have laughed every game this kid has played for us this year. He doesn't belong in the NHL. At least not now. I don't get why he has gotten so much time to do something, he continues to do nothing but yet he stays while guys with more talent than him continued to stay in the minors. I really hope with our own AHL team next season that a lot of things in regards to our young guys will be handled differently.
Well we cant replace him with anyone because of the Max callup rule

Thats why he has been here for the last ~20 games

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03-31-2007, 12:03 PM
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He doesn't have that killer instinct, no heart. I'd take 100 Tyler Spurgeon's before him.

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03-31-2007, 12:03 PM
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I thought he was really coming around there for a few games, he was hitting hard and buzzing around the net. Now again he is doing nothing. I was starting to change my opinion from the beginning of the year that he is 2 years away from making any kind of regular impact in the NHL but maybe I was right after all? I hope he shows up to camp and to start the year next year and proves me wrong in a huge way.

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03-31-2007, 12:05 PM
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Well if we can't send him back to the minors, just put him on the bench and let him have a shift a game. Cause you are right that has to be getting close to a record.

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03-31-2007, 12:14 PM
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IMO, you don't give up on JF. This is 100 percent confidence issue. I've watched most of JF's games in W/B this year and he is a different player. He has a swagger in the AHL, almost daring players to make eye contact with him after the whislte. I don't think I have ever seen a player look as good as JF does in the AHL and then play as bad as he does in the NHL. Like I said, I think this is all confidence. MacT called him out to the media AND being a rookie playing for macT is tough. If you make a mistake you are benched, the fans around here wonder why MAP, or Thor, or JF or the other rookies we have don't produce?? It's easy, they are afraid to **** up. These rookies are just trying to stay in the NHL right now, they are not worried about scoring goals and leading the team to victorys, they are worried about Not making a horrible defensive play that would bench them for the rest of the game or possible send them back to the AHL. I look at JF and he has it all. Size, good speed, decent hands, he is still only 22-23 years old, PPG player in the AHL. I think JF will surprise people next year at TC.

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03-31-2007, 12:48 PM
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One year Ted Williams was at Boston Red Sox spring training. Maybe he was a guest hitting instructor I don't remember. Anyway, the Sox always have about 10 hitters who are going to be the next Ted Williams and this season iirc they had Ellis Burks and Mike Greenwell and Sam Horn.

And Todd Benzinger. I don't recall the entire story but Williams rambled on about the "sound of the ball off Benzinger's bat" and I believe he even said it smelled different (seriously). Anyway, Greenwell was a pure hitter and Burks was the actual baseball player among them and Sam Horn could hit the moon when he made contact, but Todd Benzinger was the man.

Jacques is a little bit that way I think. Anyone who has seen him has to be impressed by his size, but the results are the thing. Jacques can hit minor league pitching but those damn major league fastballs get on you pretty quickly.

I'm pulling for him though.

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03-31-2007, 01:07 PM
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Man LT, you make every baseball reference sound like it's from the 50's, instead of from when I was 1 or so years old.

I'd like to recall your classic signing frog analogy here: JFJ tears it up when no one's watching him. At the NHL level, it's a different story. He's bounced on more rubber than Jenna Jameson.

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03-31-2007, 01:09 PM
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JFJ is a mystery wrapped in an enigma

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03-31-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
IMO, you don't give up on JF. This is 100 percent confidence issue. I've watched most of JF's games in W/B this year and he is a different player. He has a swagger in the AHL, almost daring players to make eye contact with him after the whislte. I don't think I have ever seen a player look as good as JF does in the AHL and then play as bad as he does in the NHL. Like I said, I think this is all confidence. MacT called him out to the media AND being a rookie playing for macT is tough. If you make a mistake you are benched, the fans around here wonder why MAP, or Thor, or JF or the other rookies we have don't produce?? It's easy, they are afraid to **** up. These rookies are just trying to stay in the NHL right now, they are not worried about scoring goals and leading the team to victorys, they are worried about Not making a horrible defensive play that would bench them for the rest of the game or possible send them back to the AHL. I look at JF and he has it all. Size, good speed, decent hands, he is still only 22-23 years old, PPG player in the AHL. I think JF will surprise people next year at TC.

there might be something to your argument, but what puzzles me so much about jfj is his unwillingness to do anything on the ice. forget making a defensive mistake, but when he's watching guys take runs at his teammates and he does nothing about it, i've got to question his smarts. a kid trying to secure a spot in the show has to do something, anything and he does nothing. even winchester has got in a bunch of fights this year, not because he's a fighter necessarily, but he knows what he's got to do to make an impression (even though it clearly doesn't matter in his cast). if jacques isn't going to score, he's got to find a way to do something to get noticed. he just doesn't get it...yet.

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03-31-2007, 01:25 PM
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JFJ is a mystery wrapped in an enigma
No he's not.

He can't shoot or handle the puck. A forward needs to be able to do at least one of these things.

And let's not even start on passing.

And if anyone makes an AHL comment, we can talk about the long LONG list of Oilers who were great in the AHL and couldn't play a lick in the NHL...the types of goals that are scored there are often very different

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03-31-2007, 01:28 PM
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I think Jacques falls into the trade-bait category this summer. Joining him are Pouliot, Thoresen, Nilsson, Schremp, Syvret, Winchester, Torres and Lupul. If it takes a few of these guys to move up to get the player the Oilers really want at the draft, or a true no.1-2 defenseman, or a true no.1 center then so be it.

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03-31-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilfan in Calgary!!! View Post
Well if we can't send him back to the minors, just put him on the bench and let him have a shift a game. Cause you are right that has to be getting close to a record.

That will sure help the kid break out of his slump. I can see him getting the record for sure then.

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03-31-2007, 01:47 PM
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It's pretty bad when Roloson has 3 more points than you...

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03-31-2007, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
I think Jacques falls into the trade-bait category this summer. Joining him are Pouliot, Thoresen, Nilsson, Schremp, Syvret, Winchester, Torres and Lupul. If it takes a few of these guys to move up to get the player the Oilers really want at the draft, or a true no.1-2 defenseman, or a true no.1 center then so be it.
That is exactly it!

We are full of mid level prospects and need to get an elite player with a few of them.


I think that this teams only really untradable players are: Hemsky, Stoll, Smid and Roloson.

Any other player or pick in the organiztation should be tradable.

The oilers are going to be able to make a pitch for any just aboutplayer in the game today with the assets we have to offer. There will be teams Ie(Tampa) who will have top notch players available for a package of younger cheaper talent. I not sure I see any teams who have RFA defencemen that they would be parting with in the trade market though.

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03-31-2007, 02:32 PM
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I've said it now for awhile, power forwards are slow to develop, look at Pyatt for an example. Penner also took until his 23rd or 24th birthday to become an NHLer. Winchester took until 25 or so. The kid is 21. I thought that he could eventually bring more offense than Moreau but less than Torres. IMO next season un-less he is a completely different player at camp, you send him to the minors right off the bat and give him 25-30 games down there. I don't give a crap how well he does down there, he needs to get his confidence back. IMO he will be a player, but not every guy will be NHL ready at 21 or 22. Hell if I'm not mistaken Grier was in college at that age. Give him time, that said, IMO it is at least a bit puzzling that he has played so many games with minimal results. I bvelieve Smyth had a bunch of games with very limited results in his first NHL season (albeit he was younger). To the fans, give him more time, to the coaches, send him back dow so that he can improve his offensive game.

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03-31-2007, 04:12 PM
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This guy is just killing me

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...013292005.html

There is just no bloody way that JFJ can be this bad. Seriously. He went over a PPG in his last year in the Q and yes he was 19 but you look at the stats from that team and they didn't score a tonne of goals. Yet he still somewhat stood out offensively. That has to count for something. Then he scores 24 goals in 65 games in his first year in the A. Once again this counts for something. This year he goes 9-24-22 at the start of his second year. Once again it counts for something.

I've been making a habit lately to listen to the first hour of Stauffer's show and last night him and Brownlee were talking about JFJ and MP and how unimpressed they were with them, particularily the former, so I called to weigh in. I didn't get as much time on it as I wanted to, ie they were pressed right off the bat and as I went in I couldn't resist taking a shot at the whole discussion of THN's survey and the latest "no one wants to play in edm" piece of evidence, and that sucked some time away as well but Bob said he'd give me another crack at it next Wed or Thurs when they had more time.

What I wanted to say was that even though MP isn't scoring, he's not getting scored upon either and that counts for something. He's an NHLer though it's yet to be seen what kind. And I wanted to say that it's hard to smell good when you work at the dump so expecting anyone to really stand out on a team that has a D corps destined to spend tonnes of time in their own end and can't make a first pass in any case, so you really can't judge anyone down the stretch.

What I did get to though was how it took a guy like Reasoner awhile to figure out what his NHL role would be and how we can see a guy further along than JFJ, ie Winny, and how he sometimes forgets that he's here to bang around and scrap the odd time.

Bob and Brownlee were all over that and said that JFJ wasn't up here to be a scorer in the first place. Well I'd like to see them take a lot at his stats and ask themselves what they think he thinks he is. He's over a PPG in his second year in the A and if you go back to his junior days this guy wasn't, at least not in his last two years, over a PIM a game and wasn't a big scrapper. His PIM have been up in his two years in the A but so has his scoring totals. Bob and Co might expect him to come up here and run roughshod but is that how JFJ views himself and would you blame him early on if he doesn't? Plus, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else but JFJ got cleaned earlier this season vs a much shorter and smaller Bieksa and he didn't do a whole lot better a couple of Sat's ago vs Matt Walker either. Early on he hasn't shown a great talent for the fighting so maybe that's not for him.

Look I'm not defending JFJ because I'm getting frustrated with him too. But for every Reasoner that was a scorer and showed up and realized that wasn't his NHL role there's a lot of guys who never adjusted. And maybe that's what happened to JFJ. But there's no question that he has scored enough in his last three years of hockey that he's NOT Zach Stortini and nor should he look at himself in the manner.

Note: Brownlee talked about how Reasoner was a 1st rounder and JFJ a deeep second rounder but maybe Robin should re-consider that view. Where would JFJ go now if there was a re-draft? he'd go higher. and looking at Reasoner's draft year...that was weak and JFJ wouldn't be a deep 2nd rounder in that draft...no question about it. So my comparison about guys having to change roles really isn't that far off and that's from a guy who isn't draft savvy per se but just looking at what JFJ's done in his minor pro career I can come to the aforementioned conclusion.

In any case, JFJ looks like a diaster on the O side. 80% of his shifts he doesn't even touch the puck and I can't figure out what's wrong. You just can't be that young and be that good in the A and this bad in the NHL. So what's the deal? is he a mental midget or is he just fragile mentally? is he afraid to make a mistake? what about the quality of his linemates? he looked great with 34-78 during the last BOA but then they played poorly vs TB and never got back together again and now MacT's wasting 34 playing with the death duo of 71-20. I don't know why he broke up the 22-78-34 line because 78 really hasn't looked that great offensively without 34 to tell you the truth. he still supports in his own end and plays the body but offensively the chances haven't been there.

Anyway I saw one of JFJ's early pro games down here with the Runners in '05 and I couldn't believe how fast he was for his size and how hard he hit. Looked like a can't miss guy even if he just was savvy enough to show some hustle. I just wish I'd seen most of his AHL games to know how he was successful down there, and in what roles and with what linemates, and then I could make my own conclusion why it isn't translating.

Something's missing here somewhere, no doubt about it.

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03-31-2007, 04:41 PM
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Matts: I've been more impressed with Jacques' AHL numbers than his junior numbers to be honest. You never know how many minutes they get in junior but the best players are going to get a lot of time. In Jacques' AHL time he's put up numbers in what appear to be traditional shift lengths and totals.

One thing I believe may have hurt him and Mikhnov this season is making the team and then not really playing. Also, Thoresen. As good as he's been (and I'm a big fan of Thoresen, I consider him a Finn) Thoresen got the ab's that Jacques may have gotten otherwise (Jacques beat out the rest of the competition, the guys we all knew would be in the race).

Strange year for sure.

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03-31-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
And if anyone makes an AHL comment, we can talk about the long LONG list of Oilers who were great in the AHL and couldn't play a lick in the NHL...the types of goals that are scored there are often very different
well thats what I meant

dude rips it up in the AHL and can't even muster a single point in the big leagues?

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03-31-2007, 06:03 PM
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No he's not.

He can't shoot or handle the puck. A forward needs to be able to do at least one of these things.

And let's not even start on passing.

And if anyone makes an AHL comment, we can talk about the long LONG list of Oilers who were great in the AHL and couldn't play a lick in the NHL...the types of goals that are scored there are often very different
I wonder if that is why he gets so many Moreau comprisons. Moreau is not a great shooter and is not great at handling the puck but somehow he gets the job done.

I do agree though I am not sure I am buying all those comments from the scouts and Lowe etc... that JFJ is Moreau with better hands, he even said that again a little way through this season. I am not so sure I see signs that JFJ has the defensive game Ethan does, though it is early in his pro career so that side can come still.

I get to watch JFJ from time to time in WBS games and I agree the slightly slower, sloppier pace and play in the AHL seems to suit him much better, the acceleration in speed seems to completely shoot his timing when he comes up in the bigs and for my liking he could hit more and be a little more tenacious all around on the forecheck.

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03-31-2007, 06:14 PM
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JFJ's zeros are likely all about confidence - the kid is just shelled right about now and doesn't know how to get out of it. Young powerforwards also try your patience almost as much as young dmen. All you can do is keep on giving him ABs because we need his skill set on this team (big, hits, scores a bit). I'm willing to go another year with him because his AHL performance is no fluke.

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03-31-2007, 07:34 PM
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smytty's mullet
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So what's the deal? is he a mental midget or is he just fragile mentally?
i think he doesn't think the game very well. classic example in last saturday's game against nashville. there's a battle for the puck in the left offensive corner. the puck comes out to an oiler who at the top of the faceoff cirlcle on the left wing. jacques actually beats his man out of the corner and has a chance to either screen the goalie or get an uncontested rebound should the vokoun not handle the original shot. instead of stopping in front of the net and waiting for the shot and / or rebound where it's likely to go, he goes and stands at the right goal post. vokoun let out a juicy rebound right in front of him. had he stopped on the left post or tried to screen the goalie right in front of the net he's got an uncontested opportunity on the goalie from right in front. instead, the nashville defenceman gets himself back in the play, clears the rebound and nothing comes of it. the point is, there's no freaking way the rebound could end up where he stopped. just not thinking.

that having been said, power forwards take time to develop and i think the oilers need to be patient with him. he's young, he's obviously got the tools, he just needs to find the toolbox so to speak. stauffer has mentioned several times that jacques was the one player that everyone wanted whenever lowe tried to do a deal this season. obviously everyone sees something in the kid. lets just hope he finally finds whatever is missing.

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