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Jim Kelley: More Oiler hate

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Old
04-01-2007, 04:52 PM
  #26
iceman_88888888
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here's the deal: we've got an image that we won't spend money on free agents or potential free agents. some of the older players who remember the situation with curtis joseph, doug weight, bill guerin, anson carter and now ryan smyth where they're potential or unrestricted free agents not get a real offer or what they may think as a 'lowball' offer. even the young guys may remember this and not consider coming here as a free agent because they know they may not get a good offer later on.
in any case, with the style the 'new' oilers play, i wouldn't want to come here either. where a guy who's got defensive responsibility gets rewarded in crunch time over a guy who's got the skills and potential to get the game tying or winning goal, i'd rather look elsewhere that plays to win than come here where the oil play not to lose. mact would probably look at an oiler win of 7-6 as a bad game because we gave up 6 goals rather than scoring 7!
flame away.

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04-01-2007, 04:59 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
But the bottom line is Edmonton media, for some reason, can't seem to distance themselves from the fishbowl and take stock of what's going on and how the city/organization is perceived league-wide.
Just because they don't talk about it for public consumption, doesn't mean they are ignorant at all of the perception of this team from outside Edmonton.

But then that's another issue altogether, isn't it?

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04-01-2007, 05:01 PM
  #28
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[QUOTE=Matts;8728097]because they are true.

And I think the piling on's coming about because people are asking themselves, "if you're gonna cheap on Smyth then who in the **** WILL you pay top dollar.[/QUOTE]

Thats a good one. Offering a 5 year 27 mil contract to a 32 year old 30 goal scorer isnt top dollar.
Clueless, absolutly cluelless.

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04-01-2007, 05:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sammy View Post

Thats a good one. Offering a 5 year 27 mil contract to a 32 year old 30 goal scorer isnt top dollar.
Clueless, absolutly cluelless.
Clearly, by the endless spindles of thread spent on this topic, your view on Smyth's value is equally laughable to some. It's a matter of debate: lay off the emoticons and mockery, if you can.

And about the Kelley article, I gotta say: I'm not really buying this Eastern media conspiracy. Other than Don Cherry and a bias in TV broadcasts (slightly understandable since so many fools in Canada actually like the Leafs, market-wise), I can't find much evidence of any writer "hating" Edmonton. If anything, they forget Edmonton exists until it's too late (The Hockey News), but that's about it.

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04-01-2007, 05:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pouzar View Post
Clearly, by the endless spindles of thread spent on this topic, your view on Smyth's value is equally laughable to some. It's a matter of debate: lay off the emoticons and mockery, if you can.

And about the Kelley article, I gotta say: I'm not really buying this Eastern media conspiracy. Other than Don Cherry and a bias in TV broadcasts (slightly understandable since so many fools in Canada actually like the Leafs, market-wise), I can't find much evidence of any writer "hating" Edmonton. If anything, they forget Edmonton exists until it's too late (The Hockey News), but that's about it.
Do you feel Smyth is worth $5.4M per over 5 years, more then that or less.

I feel that's his absolute limit for value given his age and style, but what are your thoughts?

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04-01-2007, 05:39 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pouzar View Post
Clearly, by the endless spindles of thread spent on this topic, your view on Smyth's value is equally laughable to some. It's a matter of debate: lay off the emoticons and mockery, if you can.

And about the Kelley article, I gotta say: I'm not really buying this Eastern media conspiracy. Other than Don Cherry and a bias in TV broadcasts (slightly understandable since so many fools in Canada actually like the Leafs, market-wise), I can't find much evidence of any writer "hating" Edmonton. If anything, they forget Edmonton exists until it's too late (The Hockey News), but that's about it.
Hate might be a strong word, but there are defnitely some who take joy in piling on:

Strachan, Brophy, Duhatschek, etc.

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Old
04-01-2007, 05:50 PM
  #32
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A hack?

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Originally Posted by D B View Post
Kelley is far from a respected writer of considerable credentials. He's just a hack that basically copied and pasted his article from other Edmonton bashing articles. Respectable writers usually come up with their own ideas.
Yowza. There's a first post that immediately establishes your credibility. Jim Kelley won the Elmer Ferguson Award in 2004. That means he's in the writer's wing of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Now, I know your first reaction will be to ass-cover and maybe suggest that honor doesn't mean anything, but it does. That said, Kelley isn't always right, and this poke he took at Edmonton is far from flattering (which is funny because he made his name in the beautiful city of Buffalo), but he is a writer of considerable credentials.

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Do you feel Smyth is worth $5.4M per over 5 years, more then that or less.

I feel that's his absolute limit for value given his age and style, but what are your thoughts?
Yikes. I've already been in a few dust ups already on that topic (it may be better to a quick look at my posts on the subject, especially about stats in previous threads).

In short: as with all long-term contracts being somewhat of a gamble, yes, he's worth $5.5 mill.

Of all of the players that are overpaid, on contract for too long, or simply cheaper to replace with an entry level player (Staios, Pisani, Moreau), Lowe picked the wrong guy too suddenly to play hardball with. But I understand some fans wanting to cut bait and basically blow up the team and get some prospects. It's a different strategy. I just don't think it's the right move.

It might be worth noting: at 31 and at $2.5 million until 2011, not a lot of people are calling Pisani greedy or too old, which is fine (he's a great even strength player), but I think it's interesting.

I think we call agree that he has a damn good agent!

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Hate might be a strong word, but there are defnitely some who take joy in piling on:

Strachan, Brophy, Duhatschek, etc.
Well, I hate to say it, but with two teams being roughly equal, things like travel, nightlife and being in a fishbowl are things to talk about.

Duhatschek is a fine hockey reporter, and from what we hear from actual players (Peca, Spacek) all of this stuff seems to be coming from them.

What I suggest is a travel brochure customized for hockey players: lots of discrete-looking puck bunnies on the cover, info on our great tax rate for rich dudes, limo service so that player never has to step outside ever, unlimited Xbox games, etc.

And we've got to do something about that drive in from the airport. Yecch.

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:28 PM
  #35
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everybody gets the "hate" when they suck.. the flames the canucks the leafs sens habs.. when you are a bottom feeder what else is there to talk about at this time?..

i for one would like to see more of these harsh articles from outta town since noone in the big E has the balls (understandably if they want to keep their access but still) to call out the oiler management.. i want to see the management feeling the heat for a horrible season..

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:29 PM
  #36
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because its true?

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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Because it's true?

He makes some very good points (aside from Smyth trying to "get the heck out of town," that's very arguable), but he's right about one thing: That nobody in the media has the balls to call a spade a spade, which is to say that Edmonton is near the bottom of the heap in terms of desireable places to ply the professional hockey trade.
no its not.

The Oilers have had some good teams in the last 20 years and have had at least their share of success, even with one hand tied behind their backs.

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:38 PM
  #37
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So Kelley has determined that Nashville which has only ever made the playoffs once in it's history and has won ONE playoff game EVER is perceived to be a "winning" franchise - while the Oilers with 5 cups and a trip to G7 in the SCF last season is not...............OK Jim - whatever you say

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Old
04-01-2007, 06:53 PM
  #38
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Combine that with Edmonton's now long history of always scrapping just to get by on and off the ice and, well, you have what no one in Canadian media ever wants to discuss: players who aren't born to the Edmonton colors don't want to play there.

That seems to be the sentence that people find upsetting but it's true. The Oilers of the Cup years were all a bunch of kids who they drafted and Gretzky who came via Brantford-Peterborough-Sault Ste. Marie-Indianapolis.

The current Oilers are a mixed bag of draft picks, players acquired via trade, and a few free agent signings (Sykora, Tjarnqvist, Staios, you could stretch it and include Roloson who was a rental and then a ufa signing).

The question is does any of this mean the Oilers can't win the SC? Based on last spring, I'd say the answer is no. The Oilers need their management group to be a little smarter than they've been this season.

But Kelley is writing for Toronto, not for Edmonton. A nice rip at EDM never hurt a Toronto writer or radio guy. McKown mentioned on Rogers during the period when MacT didn't have a contract last season that Edmonton had about 200,000 people in it.

He CLEARLY knows that isn't true, but it plays well in Toronto. Can you imagine how frustrating it must have been last spring in Toronto? Damn Oilers win 5 freaking Stanleys with a kid from Brantford as the kingpin and then after wandering in the wilderness for 15 years they get a sweetheart CBA and then go to the finals out of the box? While the town team can't win sweet fa unless they're playing Ottawa?

In the next 5 columns you can expect Kelley to write something like "Sundin's chances to win a Cup dwindling" which is a silly thing to write about unless you are writing for the Toronto fan.

Hell, he could write a column entitled "will JFJ target Briere or Drury?" and accomplish the same thing. We do it here too. Matheson's Hockey World today has a rambling item on the draft and Oilers picking at 6th and Prendergast basically saying all the good players will be gone before the Oilers pick 6th.

6th!!!!

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Old
04-01-2007, 07:32 PM
  #39
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Other than Kelly's assertion that the Oilers are responsible for the season ending roadtrip because their preference was to benefit financially from the World Curling Championships.....I don't see what all the commotion is about.
I see a lot of truth in that article and I guess the truth hurts.

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04-01-2007, 07:34 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
..... nobody in the media has the balls to call a spade a spade, which is to say that Edmonton is near the bottom of the heap in terms of desireable places to ply the professional hockey trade.
Are you kidding me ? Everybody in the media can't wait to write that story . Doesn't take a lot of journalistic courage to write an article slagging Edmonton this season . And if you haven't seen the fifteen other articles just like this one then you just haven't been opening the sports pages .

To address the content of Kelley's " contribution " is pointless . He's just repeating what folks already know . Hey pronger ..... fyou .

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Old
04-01-2007, 07:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Other than Kelly's assertion that the Oilers are responsible for the season ending roadtrip because their preference was to benefit financially from the World Curling Championships.....I don't see what all the commotion is about.
I see a lot of truth in that article and I guess the truth hurts.
Well, here is the guts of the article for me:

"Few speak on the record (it's just not the Canadian way eh?), but off the record they speak of weather, a less than comfortable family environment, the ridiculously long travel to even the closest NHL cities, the fact that there are relatively few things to do in regards to non-hockey entertainment options and that fact that its nearly impossible to have a private life in a city where hockey players are viewed as rock stars and no subject is off limits.

Combine that with Edmonton's now long history of always scrapping just to get by on and off the ice and, well, you have what no one in Canadian media ever wants to discuss: players who aren't born to the Edmonton colors don't want to play there."

These are all shots at Edmonton the community. What on earth would Kelley know of this? I would venture to say NOTHING. The "no one on in the Canadian media ever wants to discuss" line is completely laughable.

Shots at the team's effort after the trade are fair game, but the rest of the article is a gratuitous shot at Edmonton. Period. The problem of being able to ice a competitive team is a fiction. Preferences for locations will ultimatley take a back seat to career earnings when the realities of caproom are revealed this summer.

Kelley is a hack among hacks.

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04-01-2007, 08:28 PM
  #42
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Isn't this the same Kelly that said Hasek was faking an injury a couple of seasons ago when Hasek was with Buffalo. Hasek was suspended for 3 games for pushing Kelly was he not.

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04-01-2007, 08:29 PM
  #43
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What's also irritating is his definitive, "simple" answer to why players want to play in Nashville: Nashville wins. A commentator who bothered to think before he wrote would have added "in the regular season" and rethought his position.

The litany of things that are good about Nashville also apply in many instances to Edmonton: family friendly (save for some added harassment, I would guess), low-cost housing (relative to most markets), no state/provincial income tax. His statement about "forward-thinking management that believes in stability and the long-term view" is pure pablum—you could make that argument about every single team in the league. (How successful they are at implementing that philosophy is another matter.)

I also don't believe his "anonymous sources" are very good—at the very least, he's hyperbolizing their statements. "Ridiculously long travel to even the closest NHL cities" is a not-especially awful 2.5-hour bus ride to Calgary and a 2.5-hour flight to Vancouver (plus four hours to get to the airport, mind you... worst civic decision in Edmonton's history, but that's another, OT thread).

My favourite part, though, was this: "What no one in Canadian media ever wants to discuss: players who aren't born to the Edmonton colors don't want to play there."

Does the Canadian hockey media ever discuss anything *but* this? If he wanted to be groundbreaking, he should have written the same story about Calgary.

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04-01-2007, 09:03 PM
  #44
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Nashville has only had a couple of pretty good seasons (and have done nothing in the playoffs). It's not like they're the New England Patriots or something.

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04-01-2007, 09:07 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
But Kelley is writing for Toronto, not for Edmonton. A nice rip at EDM never hurt a Toronto writer or radio guy. McKown mentioned on Rogers during the period when MacT didn't have a contract last season that Edmonton had about 200,000 people in it.

He CLEARLY knows that isn't true, but it plays well in Toronto. Can you imagine how frustrating it must have been last spring in Toronto? Damn Oilers win 5 freaking Stanleys with a kid from Brantford as the kingpin and then after wandering in the wilderness for 15 years they get a sweetheart CBA and then go to the finals out of the box? While the town team can't win sweet fa unless they're playing Ottawa?
Sorry LT, but I think you're way off base here. Leafs fans were extremely supportive of the Oilers during the playoff run last year. I think it's safe to say that Edmonton would be the Canadian team of second choice for most Toronto fans. That said, for most of the regular season and the off season, they couldn't give two hoots about Edmonton. If a Toronto media member wants to score cheap points, smarter to take a run at Ottawa, Buffalo, or Montreal.

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04-01-2007, 09:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
Well, here is the guts of the article for me:

"Few speak on the record (it's just not the Canadian way eh?), but off the record they speak of weather, a less than comfortable family environment, the ridiculously long travel to even the closest NHL cities, the fact that there are relatively few things to do in regards to non-hockey entertainment options and that fact that its nearly impossible to have a private life in a city where hockey players are viewed as rock stars and no subject is off limits.

Combine that with Edmonton's now long history of always scrapping just to get by on and off the ice and, well, you have what no one in Canadian media ever wants to discuss: players who aren't born to the Edmonton colors don't want to play there."

These are all shots at Edmonton the community. What on earth would Kelley know of this? I would venture to say NOTHING. The "no one on in the Canadian media ever wants to discuss" line is completely laughable.

Shots at the team's effort after the trade are fair game, but the rest of the article is a gratuitous shot at Edmonton. Period. The problem of being able to ice a competitive team is a fiction. Preferences for locations will ultimatley take a back seat to career earnings when the realities of caproom are revealed this summer.

Kelley is a hack among hacks.
well said

Are the Oilers a better run organization than Nashville? based on the standings the last couple years....clearly not.

But taking pointless shot at the city (yet again from the eastern media) serve no purpose, other then to kick a team when it's down.

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04-01-2007, 09:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by callighenfan View Post
Sorry LT, but I think you're way off base here. Leafs fans were extremely supportive of the Oilers during the playoff run last year. I think it's safe to say that Edmonton would be the Canadian team of second choice for most Toronto fans. That said, for most of the regular season and the off season, Leafs fans couldn't give two hoots about Edmonton. If a Toronto media member wants to score cheap points, they take a run at Ottawa, Buffalo, or Montreal.
Yeah, I was in Toronto during the Anahiem series and I would have to agree. I even think I saw a couple of Oiler's car flags. Kelly is talking about this because he thinks the two stories provide an interesting juxtaposition.

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04-01-2007, 09:13 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callighenfan View Post
What's also irritating is his definitive, "simple" answer to why players want to play in Nashville: Nashville wins. A commentator who bothered to think before he wrote would have added "in the regular season" and rethought his position.

The litany of things that are good about Nashville also apply in many instances to Edmonton: family friendly (save for some added harassment, I would guess), low-cost housing (relative to most markets), no state/provincial income tax. His statement about "forward-thinking management that believes in stability and the long-term view" is pure pablum—you could make that argument about every single team in the league. (How successful they are at implementing that philosophy is another matter.)

I also don't believe his "anonymous sources" are very good—at the very least, he's hyperbolizing their statements. "Ridiculously long travel to even the closest NHL cities" is a not-especially awful 2.5-hour bus ride to Calgary and a 2.5-hour flight to Vancouver (plus four hours to get to the airport, mind you... worst civic decision in Edmonton's history, but that's another, OT thread).

My favourite part, though, was this: "What no one in Canadian media ever wants to discuss: players who aren't born to the Edmonton colors don't want to play there."

Does the Canadian hockey media ever discuss anything *but* this? If he wanted to be groundbreaking, he should have written the same story about Calgary.
Woah there. It takes 40 minutes to fly to Calgary from Edmonton. It takes 1 and a half hours to one and three-quarter hours to get from Edmonton to Vancouver. It's 40 minutes to get to the airport. There is an airport in the USA that takes approximately an hour to get to. I don't know which city but it was mentioned on the radio once.

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04-01-2007, 09:24 PM
  #49
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Woah there. It takes 40 minutes to fly to Calgary from Edmonton. It takes 1 and a half hours to one and three-quarter hours to get from Edmonton to Vancouver. It's 40 minutes to get to the airport. There is an airport in the USA that takes approximately an hour to get to. I don't know which city but it was mentioned on the radio once.
I believe they take a bus to Calgary, but I could be mistaken. Once you've arrived early, gone through security, risk of delays, etc., it wouldn't make sense for an entire team to fly. Plus they'd still have to arrange a bus for transportation within Calgary.

My mistake about Vancouver. I was being sarcastic about the drive to the airport. I thought it was obvious enough that I didn't need a , but I guess not. It is one of the least convenient airports I've ever flown from though, and I've been to a lot. The only one that took me longer to get to from downtown was Indira Gandhi in Delhi. Oh and Gatwick in London, but that's London's secondary airport.

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04-01-2007, 09:29 PM
  #50
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Kelley also has a lot of material close to home he should consider: like why the Leafs have been losers almost every year since I was in diapers? Why no no UFA superstars are banging on the door to get in? Why they have to pay mediocre dmen like Kubina $5 large to play in fabulous TO?

People in glass houses..........

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