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Comrie to Philly done deal.

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Old
12-16-2003, 04:56 PM
  #101
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanko
I keep forgetting you guys are WHL guys that;s why you like Woywitka and talk about Getzlaf instead of Carter.Carter is there top prospect and trust me is the real deal.I still think Perry will be real good one but I guess you guys like the 3rd.I take a top 15 pick over a 25th pick and a 3rd.
I'm not forgetting him. But I doubt he could have been had. If Anaheim wasn't willing to give up Ryan, it's even more doubtful the Jeff Carter would get traded either. He was my pick last draft that I would hope the Oilers would pick... but Philly took him relatively high in the draft.

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12-16-2003, 04:57 PM
  #102
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I think it's a decent deal, as well. Woywitka is a much safer choice than Perry, and sounds like he is a no nonsense, physical presence. Yeah, he's not flashy but it addresses the lack of defensive depth in our system and it sounds like he may be ready within a year for the bigs.

Also, from what I understand the 2004 draft class will be, as someone has already pointed out, top heavy. The fall off from 1-15 and then 16-30 is fairly steep; aside from the top 5 I would venture to say none of the rest are going to be making an impact right away. I think the Oilers are destined to pick in the 16-30 range, anyways.

Philly doesn't make sense as a trade partner though. They are tops in the East, in the NHL actually, and they have a plethora of excellent forwards. Where does Comrie fit into their system? He's a smallish offensive forward in the much bigger, tougher East and he's a primadonna a la Lindros. Clarke doesn't like those types of players (see Lindros ). I think Clarke may just end up trading him to "an interested party", to be quite frank, though I am not sure what they would get that they would want or need. I would be ticked off, however, if Murray gives them Vishnevski or Chistov or Lupul!

As for some of the Ducks posters, tough luck in not landing Comrie. He's actually a very good player. It's unfortunate for you, and for now anyways fortunate for us that he is not on a Western Conference rival.

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12-16-2003, 04:58 PM
  #103
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When is the last time you saw Perry play????

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Old
12-16-2003, 05:00 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Wow, the mods already have Woywitka's profile on the Oiler's HF page, and slotted him into the #5 prospect position.

damn you guys work fast!

That's not the mods doing... and your welcome

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12-16-2003, 05:04 PM
  #105
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I immediately got in touch with one of my "inside sources" and flat out asked for a scouting report (see Woywitka's new bio page) and based the ranking on where he fits into the Oiler list. He was a 7.5 on the Philly page but I haven't heard that Jeff could be a top 2 defenceman so I dropped him to a 7.0 which put him either 5th or 6th on our list.

comments?

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Old
12-16-2003, 05:09 PM
  #106
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The sky is falling! At least it seems so with so many posters actually liking on first impression a Kevin Lowe trade.

I join the majority in praising this trade. Woywitka is a proven winner - in junior and at an elite level. He should evolve quickly into a top four defenseman for this team. The draft picks are nice but the debate of value (mid-first rounder - Anaheim - vs low-first rounder Philly) is a moot point unless prospects translate into NHL player. Regardless, we will have some additional flexibility with two first-rounders.

On to Mike Comrie. Philly may become a great fit for this player. Removed from the glare of hometown scrutiny and positioned as a support player (rather than first liner) on a deep, Stanley Cup contender, Comrie might ultimately flourish for the Flyers. Learning a team first and defense first approach under Hitch will be difficult but a very valuable development. He has alot to prove and will begin the long-term process of defying his detractors. He has proved doubters wrong in the past. Too small. Too slow.

This trade works for both teams. And although this isn't Anaheim, I feel it will also work for Comrie.

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Old
12-16-2003, 05:10 PM
  #107
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My Two Bits

Comrades,
Free at last, we are free at last from Comrie trade rumours, and I'm all for resolving the standoff in a way that will have Comrie waking up every day to deal with a) the Fat Man's practices & abuse, b) Clarke's post-loss diatribes in the media (if Comrie thought he got picked on in Edmonton, he costs the Flyers one game and Clarke will get medieval on his ass), and c) assuming he signs (not a forgone conclusion) now Comrie competes for playing time with Jeremy Roenick, who I suspect will do some headhunting in practice to straighten out our erstwhile little squirt.

On the return: not bad. Not great, but solid, because it addresses an area of relative weakness, Woywitka sounds like a character dude, and given that the drafting has improved, it underscores the Oil's depth for post-2004.

One astute poster noted that return is Woywitka, draft picks, and Oates for a year, which is not so bad. Kevin Lowe wins the standoff, the Oilers dump the expendable midget, and we can now get on with our lives, no?

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Old
12-16-2003, 05:17 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
*snip*

As for Comrie, wish him all the best. Whatever the reasons for this standoff, it is done now and there's no use wishing him ill.
Are you kidding? I might just go get an old Flyers jersey and put #89 on it with "Comrie Sucks" on it or something...

Seriously, there's been enough ill will floating around on this that it'll take a while for it to dissipate. And just think of his first game back next season...


Bart

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Old
12-16-2003, 05:51 PM
  #109
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Not a bad trade at all. For months, I've been harping on the need for a
first line centre or a top 4 defenseman. We have some prospects for the
centre job (Niiniimaki, Pouliot, maybe even Stoll who knows?) but only one for the top 4 defenseman (Lynch). Woywitka definitely helps out in this regard.

Woywitka > Perry.
For several reasons: Perry is yet another scoring forward. We have a number of prospects who fit that category. We need a top 4 defenseman more than a scoring forward (which was another reason why I also didn't like Lupul for the Oil.) Woywitka is 20 years old. Perry is 16 (?). Woywitka's talent and ability are closer to maturing and scouts have a more accurate gauge on his ability currently than Perry who's value is still fluctuating.

Anaheim 1st > Philly 1st
But as we all know, 1st round draft picks can bomb. Bonsignore, Kelly etc. So what's the difference between a 15-18th pick and a 25th pick? They're ALL still gambles. As long as you have another roll at the die, that's what counts.

Philly 3rd > Anaheim 0
Yet another roll at the die.

And as for those people who are afraid of Philly trading to Anaheim, I doubt that it will happen and if it does it certainly won't be for Perry and 1st. That is NOT what Philly's needs are. They are a NOW team and want to win now. They might be looking for Giguere (to strengthen their goal keeping) or Andy MacDonald.

A couple of weeks ago, Clarke said he wouldn't want another small centre, but that was before Lapointe walked on the team. Handzus was not working out as the 2nd line centre, so picking up Comrie actually become a need for his team. Now he has a first line centre (Roenick), 3rd line checking centre (Primeau) and Comrie as his second line centre between young guns like Gagne and Williams. I don't see Clarke trading away this obvious line combo without at least giving it a try.

Conclusion: Lowe got what he could for Comrie. Not a great trade, and
certainly doesn't help the Oil now. Unless..... Woywitka gets called up and steps in to play. Rumor has it that he was going to make the Philly lineup this year but Pitkanen came in instead.

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Old
12-16-2003, 06:00 PM
  #110
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Wow finally able to post on the trade Boards were down when I first heard of the deal. I don't know a lot about Jeff Woywitka but purely from a value p.o.v I like this deal. A young 1st rd Defenceman, a 1st rd pick and a 3rd. Our scouting staff has done a nice job the last couple of years and if they liked Woywitka in 01 and still like him now then I can live with that. In our org a Dman that could make the jump by next year or even this year, 21 years old with size you can't really go wrong there.

I am also happy to see that the deal was made and that a player like reasoner wasn't dealt as some of the earlier rumors had stated.

More than anything I am just glad that the whole saga is over and we don't have to think about or hear from Comrie anymore, for that I thank K Lowe. Good luck in Philly Comrie as a diehard Eagles Fan I know how that town treats malcontents, you thought Edm was tough? you ain't seen nothing yet.

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Old
12-16-2003, 06:35 PM
  #111
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I said it before and I will say it again that I am not happy with prospects and draft picks! This team needs help NOW! Oh well, thats why I'm not the G.M. and just a fan. I like this deal better then the Ducks one. My buddy is a die hard Flyer fan and he was pissed they traded Jeff. I'm glad the little puke is gone now.

Isn't funny that Bobby Clarke always trades for the whiners, first Lindros and now Comrie!

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Old
12-16-2003, 06:52 PM
  #112
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Well I think this sums up the Comrie situation from McKenzie

Quote:
The Oilers no doubt are taking some pleasure in Comrie going to Philadelphia because if Comrie found Lowe and Oiler coach Craig MacTavish to be difficult and abrasive, he's now hooked up with Bobby Clarke and Ken Hitchcock. Enough said.


The deal? It was ok. Woywitka is a fine player. And we have another pick to throw in for getting Ovechkin.

Flyers? Comire.....NOT BIG! BIG GOOD! CLARKE LIKE BIG!

Simply put Clark can now turn around and deal one of his centres. #1 on the list will be Comrie once he signs him. To Anaheim? Why?

Jagr is available as is Gonchar. Why would he go anywhere else?

Why get a Perry when you can land yourself a Jagr? Now I am not saying it will be a Jagr for Comrie deal but I am sure the Caps will definitely think about it if Philly offers to take Jagr's salary.

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Old
12-16-2003, 06:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Keep in mind that Clarke was the one who outright stated that the Flyers were in no need for a center especially a smaller one... and he had not had even the slightest interest in Comrie.

It's Bobby Clarke. He'll surprise you. Don't take his comments at face value.

From philadelphiaflyers.com

Question: Back in November you said (referring to the Flyers interest in Mike Comrie), ‘we don’t need him right now. Did you make this deal because you lost a center man (Lapointe) and were scrambling to get another one?

Clarke: “No, not at all. I think at the time you were talking about giving up Michal Handzus. From our standpoint we just weren’t prepared to give up Michal Handzus. We haven’t had any conversations up until three or four days ago with {Oliers General Manager Kevin Lowe}. To get a player as good as Comrie and as good as we feel he’ll be for our team and not have to take anybody off our team, then we had to look at this. We think (Jeff) Woywitka is going to be a terrific defenseman in the NHL, but we have young defensemen. We have (Jim) Vandermeer and (Joni) Pitkanen. We think (Dennis) Seidenberg is ready and we got a couple of other young guys that we believe are going to play. For us to get what we consider a very highly skilled center man for now and for the future, is important.”

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Old
12-16-2003, 07:01 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOZ
Well I think this sums up the Comrie situation from McKenzie




The deal? It was ok. Woywitka is a fine player. And we have another pick to throw in for getting Ovechkin.

Flyers? Comire.....NOT BIG! BIG GOOD! CLARKE LIKE BIG!

Simply put Clark can now turn around and deal one of his centres. #1 on the list will be Comrie once he signs him. To Anaheim? Why?

Jagr is available as is Gonchar. Why would he go anywhere else?

Why get a Perry when you can land yourself a Jagr? Now I am not saying it will be a Jagr for Comrie deal but I am sure the Caps will definitely think about it if Philly offers to take Jagr's salary.
Flyers aren't trading for Jagr.

I do think the Comrie deal could allow us to make a deal for Sergei Gonchar, if the right deal came up.

Handzus + for Gonchar.

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Old
12-16-2003, 07:25 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Woywitka > Perry.
For several reasons: Perry is yet another scoring forward. We have a number of prospects who fit that category. We need a top 4 defenseman more than a scoring forward (which was another reason why I also didn't like Lupul for the Oil.) Woywitka is 20 years old. Perry is 16 (?). Woywitka's talent and ability are closer to maturing and scouts have a more accurate gauge on his ability currently than Perry who's value is still fluctuating.
I agree with you, but have to point out that Perry is 18. He had to be to have been drafted, but the two year age difference means that Woywitka could play here very soon, while Perry will be a few years at least.

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Old
12-16-2003, 08:16 PM
  #116
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I have mixed feelings about this trade but I don't think I can add anything more to what's already been written here.

Just one question: if next season is wiped out by a lockout, will the 2005 draft be postponed? If that's the case, would the 2006 draft be composed of the 2005 + 2006 crops of prospects? I assume that if the draft is indeed postponed our 2005 3rd rounder would turn into 2006 3rd rounder.

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Old
12-16-2003, 08:45 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
Anaheim 1st > Philly 1st
But as we all know, 1st round draft picks can bomb. Bonsignore, Kelly etc. So what's the difference between a 15-18th pick and a 25th pick? They're ALL still gambles. As long as you have another roll at the die, that's what counts.
When people say ANA 1st > PHI 1st, I think they put a little too much emphasis on current standings and not enough on probable final standings. Teams that win their divisions are automatically seeded 25-30, not an unimportant factor. Can PHI win their division? Sure. Can ANA? yup. This is not to say the PHI pick probably won't be a worse pick. Most likely it will. But it's not an absolute slam dunk at this point, 3/8 thru the season

current standings:

PHI 31 GP ---- 44 pts
NJ 29 GP ---- 39 pts

PHI in the drivers seat, but they are no slam dunk to win the division (though I would certainly favor them, it's not a lock)

LA 31 GP ---- 36 pts
ANA 31 GP --- 29 pts

ANA is certainly behind it, but I think they have a hot streak in them somewhere. By no means the favorite, but they could still win the division. Then again, if they continue the tailspin and miss the playoffs, the worst the pick could be is 14th overall, vs 25-30 is PHI wins the division, 30th if PHI wins the Cup.

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Old
12-16-2003, 10:03 PM
  #118
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Comrie for Woywitka + 1st Round + 3rd Round, is a good deal under the circumstances. A player holding out never seems to shore up great trade returns, and with Comrie, I'm not sure if we could get better return value. I think the Oilers did well in this trade. The situation is that the Oilers have a slid crop of prospects at center, and though currently we're not totally strong at center we're also not too bad as well. Because we have Comrie and York at center we have to increase the size down the middle, who would you rather keep in the lineup, between York and COmrie... I would have no trouble saying York (more well rounded). Woywitka wouls fit into our system quite well, more so then Perry would of. I've always liked Woywitka (though I've always liked Lynch more) with that said Lowe managed to deal for a legitimate NHL dman for the future. Woywitka will do no worse then a top 3 dman. I'm not sure if we would been able to get that if we were to have kept w/ the ducks trade.

GXL

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:07 AM
  #119
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I keep finding it humourous that everyone is saying Woywitka > Perry because the Oil needs a D-man more...by your logic Jeff Jillson > Rick Nash....heck....Paul Coffey > Gretzky....

Your assessments have nothing to do with talent and that is laughable

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12-17-2003, 05:12 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10.16.1974
I keep finding it humourous that everyone is saying Woywitka > Perry because the Oil needs a D-man more...by your logic Jeff Jillson > Rick Nash....heck....Paul Coffey > Gretzky....

Your assessments have nothing to do with talent and that is laughable
Okay, how about this one.

Jeff Woywitka was one of Canada best defenseman during the WJC's last year. Perry wasn't deemed good enough to make Team Canada this year.

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:13 AM
  #121
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10.16.1974 the mere fact that Comrie was not traded to the Ducks doesn't mean you can go on a tear and call Lowe stupid or the rest of us illogical just coz we think a prospect from Philadelphia is possibly better than one of yours.

What has been said is that Woywitka is more of a sure thing, and thats a fact. If the Ducks wanted this Murray could have matched Clarke's offer but the bottom line is why should the Oilers help the Ducks when they play each other so much in the year, we only play Philadelphia twice and it says something about the skill level of Mike Comrie when the trade has this element to it.

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:16 AM
  #122
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I like the trade alot. I remember Woywitka from the WJC last year and he was one of there better players. I just a little disappointed that Lowe didn't get help right now. Even after the trade, the Oilers are the same team that just had a horrible homestand, and piss poor special teams. Lowe said all along he wanted help now and for the future.

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:28 AM
  #123
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I really believe the key to this deal is the first-rounder. And not because we'll get another good prospect but because Lowe has had an itch to move up in the draft the last two years and hasn't been able to do it (remember the Nash, Lupul, Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Coburn rumours?). However, a 16th overall and a 25th overall (for argument's sake) plus a Rita or Chimera might be enough to land a top ten pick.

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12-17-2003, 05:31 AM
  #124
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I started a thread a while back about where comrie would go. I said to the leafs and nobody picked philly. The reason why this trade happened is that Lowe had to addres a need in the org - defense. He tried to at the draft but was unable to move up to draft suter. He offered comrie straight up to improve his position and was thwarted when suter was taken before Nashville's turn to pick.

IMO, young stud dmen are the rarest and most valuable commodity in this league. The only teams who can part with them are the big market "win now" teams like toronto and philly because it is difficult to suffer through their growing pains when the cup is on the line. The only teams that would part with a young stud dman are teams like toronto, philly, the rangers, detroit, and colorado. Of those teams, only philly and the leafs had a guy in their system. From the oiler's perspective, the potential suitors were very few and Lowe did well to coax Jeff out of Philly.

As for the possibility of the 2005 draft combining the 2004 and 2005 draft class, that won't happen. The cba expires after the 2004 draft in June so there will be a draft this year.

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:32 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Okay, how about this one.

Jeff Woywitka was one of Canada best defenseman during the WJC's last year. Perry wasn't deemed good enough to make Team Canada this year.
How about this one

Perry= 1985-05-16
Woywitka= 1983-09-01

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