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Clarke looking to trade? (PROPOSAL)

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Old
12-16-2003, 08:29 PM
  #1
Adityase
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Clarke looking to trade? (PROPOSAL)

ESPN News "speculated" that the Flyers might use a surplus at center to trade for a goalie later in the year. This isn't exactly new news, but there is a surplus at center in Philly now. Also, Philly's in first, the goalies are doing well, and Esche looks to be emerging as a legit starter. So in my opinion, Clarke isn't necessarily looking at a goalie, but what about:


To Detroit: Keith Primeau

To Philly: CuJo (5 million paid - and he can be given back next year (apparently Holland is actually offering this since they're expecting a work stoppage))

I don't think this is likely, but it makes some sense. Detroit's looking for a big center who can be physical and can take faceoffs. Also, since his holdout in 97, he's matured a lot and has accepted that he won't turn into a superstar. He's also been a captain.

Also, Philly can turn around and trade Hackett if they want (the reasoning is Esche would be the starter and Cujo would be there just in case).

Then again, Detroit's doing really well right now, but Detroit's always had difficulty adjusting to the playoff style and with Datsyuk as the source of offense, the potential for an adjustment problem is there.

I don't know - just an idea. Flame on!

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Old
12-16-2003, 09:06 PM
  #2
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Comire to PHX in a deal for Burke?

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Old
12-16-2003, 09:21 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
ESPN News "speculated" that the Flyers might use a surplus at center to trade for a goalie later in the year. This isn't exactly new news, but there is a surplus at center in Philly now. Also, Philly's in first, the goalies are doing well, and Esche looks to be emerging as a legit starter. So in my opinion, Clarke isn't necessarily looking at a goalie, but what about:


To Detroit: Keith Primeau

To Philly: CuJo (5 million paid - and he can be given back next year (apparently Holland is actually offering this since they're expecting a work stoppage))

I don't think this is likely, but it makes some sense. Detroit's looking for a big center who can be physical and can take faceoffs. Also, since his holdout in 97, he's matured a lot and has accepted that he won't turn into a superstar. He's also been a captain.

Also, Philly can turn around and trade Hackett if they want (the reasoning is Esche would be the starter and Cujo would be there just in case).

Then again, Detroit's doing really well right now, but Detroit's always had difficulty adjusting to the playoff style and with Datsyuk as the source of offense, the potential for an adjustment problem is there.

I don't know - just an idea. Flame on!
Been there, done that. He's not welcome back in Detroit.

And Detroit's had difficulty adjusting to the playoff style?
3 stanley cups in the last 7 years. 'Nuff said.

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Old
12-16-2003, 11:35 PM
  #4
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Primeau will never wear the winged wheel again...and thats not the fans talking either.

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12-16-2003, 11:45 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
but Detroit's always had difficulty adjusting to the playoff style
This may be one of the stupidest comment I have ever seen on this message board.

And I've seen some weird ****, believe me.

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Old
12-17-2003, 12:18 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
This may be one of the stupidest comment I have ever seen on this message board.

And I've seen some weird ****, believe me.

I knew this would cause some trouble, but it's deserving of elaboration.

The Wings, unlike, say... the Devils, do have to make certain MAJOR changes come playoff time. The Wings characteristically have slow starts in the playoffs as a result. The other characteristic of a Wings playoff run it that opposing goalies always look good, at least at the beginning. These 2 facts are indesputable as generalizations. You may not agree with my conclusion that it's the result of a playoff adjustment, but if you're not aware of these 2 phenomena, then you shouldn't comment.

And yes, the Wings "style" has evolved, but certain tendencies remain: controlled game, cycling skating, lots of passing. Teams that give the Wings trouble are those that force a dump/chase philosophy, can forecheck well but maintain position well, and grittier teams that don't get out of position. It's hard to find, but it shows up in the playoffs for the teams that have less skill available to them. The Ducks did it, the Canucks did it for a few games, the Kings did it etc. Plus any Wings fan can tell you that the Wings reliance on the power play can be a big hurt in the playoffs if certain refs don't call clutching/grabbing/interference penalties. This has a tendency to happen in the earlier rounds since skilled teams face less skilled teams (in general).

The point was made only to explain Holland's need for a big center. And not necessarily a power forward, but just someone who's harder to get off the puck. This explains the interest in Lang. Now, Datsyuk has been absolutely amazing, but the question remains if he can do this in the playoffs. He has been very good in the playoffs before (2002), but at this point, he'll be asked to lead the team based on the season's performance and I think a Primeau or Lang would be a nice (!) safety net.

That's what I meant. If you still believe it's one of the dumbest comments, then... well, then ask me a question and I'll try to answer it.

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Old
12-17-2003, 12:19 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Primeau will never wear the winged wheel again...and thats not the fans talking either.

Personally, I'd rather get a boatload of other players before Primeau, but I'm curious what you mean by this. Has Illich said this? Players? Primeau himself? And since 1997?

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Old
12-17-2003, 12:21 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Moose
Comire to PHX in a deal for Burke?

I don't see him trading Comrie. I think Woywitka and those two picks would be overpayment for Burke which is basically what this is.

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Old
12-17-2003, 12:48 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
I knew this would cause some trouble, but it's deserving of elaboration.

The Wings, unlike, say... the Devils, do have to make certain MAJOR changes come playoff time.
Unlike the Devils? Major changes? What major changes?

Each and every team in this league will tell you the playoffs are a whole new season and they ALL start from scratch.

They all adjust, they all face adversity. You're overanalyzing the Wings here. It's the same for every team.

That being said, it sure would be nice for the Wings to get a big centermen. It probably won't be Primeau, however.

I still think your comment is as off the mark as if you had said Wayne Gretzky was a player struggling to get points in his NHL days.

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12-17-2003, 04:16 AM
  #10
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"The Wings characteristically have slow starts in the playoffs as a result. The other characteristic of a Wings playoff run it that opposing goalies always look good, at least at the beginning."

So how does acquiring Primeau help?

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:42 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
ESPN News "speculated" that the Flyers might use a surplus at center to trade for a goalie later in the year. This isn't exactly new news, but there is a surplus at center in Philly now. Also, Philly's in first, the goalies are doing well, and Esche looks to be emerging as a legit starter.

Well then how about Gagne and Esche to Annaheim for Giguere?

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Old
12-17-2003, 05:56 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
Also, Philly can turn around and trade Hackett if they want (the reasoning is Esche would be the starter and Cujo would be there just in case).
Hackett has a NTC.

Look people, Hackett and Esche are here to stay whether you or I like it or not. Hitchcock believes that Esche can be the #1, and so far, he has.

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Old
12-17-2003, 06:00 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
ESPN News "speculated" that the Flyers might use a surplus at center to trade for a goalie later in the year. This isn't exactly new news, but there is a surplus at center in Philly now. Also, Philly's in first, the goalies are doing well, and Esche looks to be emerging as a legit starter. So in my opinion, Clarke isn't necessarily looking at a goalie, but what about:


To Detroit: Keith Primeau

To Philly: CuJo (5 million paid - and he can be given back next year (apparently Holland is actually offering this since they're expecting a work stoppage))

I don't think this is likely, but it makes some sense. Detroit's looking for a big center who can be physical and can take faceoffs. Also, since his holdout in 97, he's matured a lot and has accepted that he won't turn into a superstar. He's also been a captain.

Also, Philly can turn around and trade Hackett if they want (the reasoning is Esche would be the starter and Cujo would be there just in case).

Then again, Detroit's doing really well right now, but Detroit's always had difficulty adjusting to the playoff style and with Datsyuk as the source of offense, the potential for an adjustment problem is there.

I don't know - just an idea. Flame on!
#1. Chances of a trade for a goalie ar next to nothing. It was the first question asked of Clarke during his mini-press conference. His response "Why? There is one goalie in the NHL that is better than all the rest, after Brodeur there is very little to choose from between the next group of goalies, and I don't think New Jersey is trading Brodeur."

#2. A Primeau for CuJo deal would be awful on so many levels.

#3. Hackett can't just be dealt, he has a NTC.

#4. I think if the Flyers do end up moving one of the centers, it will be Handzus, but IMO it would be for an upgrade on defense. Something along the lines of Handzus + for a guy like Gonchar.

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Old
12-17-2003, 06:02 AM
  #14
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The only goaler I'd trade for is Khabibulin, because the other Elite (Brodeur, Theodore, Belfour, Hasek) aren't going anywhere. Kolzig isn't the answer, nor is Burke. Seeing how Tampa is in a massive slump, and Grahame has been doing great for them, perhaps a Comrie for Khabi trade is in the works.

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Old
12-17-2003, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
"The Wings characteristically have slow starts in the playoffs as a result. The other characteristic of a Wings playoff run it that opposing goalies always look good, at least at the beginning."

So how does acquiring Primeau help?

I don't know for sure. I'm not even advocating this trade. I'm only going on what Holland has said he'd like for Cujo - namely a bigger center. I speculated it was because at least one physical presence down the middle has been deemed necessary by Holland.

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12-17-2003, 04:09 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Unlike the Devils? Major changes? What major changes?

Each and every team in this league will tell you the playoffs are a whole new season and they ALL start from scratch.

I thought it was stupid to say the Wings have difficulty adjusting. Now you're saying everyone has that problem. Seems contradictory.

Oh well, I'm not trying to start a fight, but you're logic eludes me. I respect the fact that you disagree even if you choose to tell me that with an insult.

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12-17-2003, 04:13 PM
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Here ya go

To Phi: Hamrlik and Bates
To NYI: Gagne

or


To PHi: Hamrlik
to NYI: Handzus

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Old
12-17-2003, 04:19 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Well then how about Gagne and Esche to Annaheim for Giguere?
You mean Comrie and Esche?

Either way, I don't see Giggy getting traded. Would be interesting to see Philly deal Comrie to Anaheim though since he knows they'd love to have him. Maybe later in the year (if Anaheim's out of the playoffs):

Comrie

for

Perry
2004 1st
Carney

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Old
12-17-2003, 04:52 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adityase
I knew this would cause some trouble, but it's deserving of elaboration.

The Wings, unlike, say... the Devils, do have to make certain MAJOR changes come playoff time. .
Yeah, the Devils never make major changes, like hiring a new coach right before the playoffs...

 
Old
12-17-2003, 05:27 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPen
Been there, done that. He's not welcome back in Detroit.
Bull. Ken Holland would kiss his pretty little feet at the airport.

Unfortunately for him, he can't give Cujo away.

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Old
12-17-2003, 11:32 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique
Yeah, the Devils never make major changes, like hiring a new coach right before the playoffs...

Ha ha! All right. You got me there.

Vlad may be right and I'm overanaylzing, but as a Wings fan where the 3 options are stanley cup, loss to Colorado, or first round bust, it can be a bit harrowing.

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12-17-2003, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
Bull. Ken Holland would kiss his pretty little feet at the airport.

Unfortunately for him, he can't give Cujo away.


Thank you. I don't think the Primeau hold out hurts as much as the Fedorov defection II. Primeau was a young kid with visions of grandeur. He, like everone who wears 55 (or 44 or 77) thought they'd make it their own forever. Primeau wanted a chance to be a #1. He's past that. He's played well with Francis (Yzerman-type), Roenick, and has served as a captain. Also, he has since scored one of the most famous playoff goals ever and more importantly, he's been a captain. And the Philly fans - notorious for getting down on their players - have actually liked Primeau.

I don't think Primeau is any real solution, but I think he's exactly the type of player Holland wants/thinks he could possibly get.

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Old
12-17-2003, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
To PHi: Hamrlik
to NYI: Handzus

Is there no objection to this? If Comrie signs, I think Philly would die for this trade. I proposed a trade for an Islander D-man (Hamrlik or Niinimma) and I got flamed to holy hell. As an Islander fan to make this trade proposal, I am amazed.

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12-18-2003, 04:45 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
To PHi: Hamrlik
to NYI: Handzus
From a Flyers point of view: Done!

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Old
12-18-2003, 06:20 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
To Phi: Hamrlik and Bates
To NYI: Gagne

or


To PHi: Hamrlik
to NYI: Handzus
Sure let's trade with a division rival, we all know these sort of deals happen all the time

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